Intuition, Instinct or Intelligence?

Welcome to Wabi Sabi, the arts of imperfection. Jim and I here just discussing just like 30 seconds ago, what are we gonna talk about? So my instinct said we should just talk about whatever we feel like as whatever the first thing that comes to mind. Jim, what do you wanna talk about today?

I really want, because prior to, know, no one's privy to the conversation we had just before we got on. That was, uh, that was all encompassing. And we talked a lot about the value of how do you, how do you analyze situations, uh, through logic, through the filter of logic or the filter, filter intuition and which one works. So that was the one that I wanted to, uh, sort of talk about. know you did a talk, uh, over the weekend, so I'd love to hear about that. And particularly about the gold shoes that I sent you a private message about somehow how you worked into your talk to talk about your tiger gold shoes. So, uh, I'll leave it over to you, Lawrence, in terms of the stuff.

Well, listen, uh I, you know, we talked about on our Suko Tigers, I think on our previous podcast, whether I actually bought them or not in Japan. Well, you know, it could be confirmed that I've been cited that I did actually purchase those shoes. And I worked in my talk. And I got to say, the story I came up with, the story I used in the talk just felt just hit it on the nail.

point.

I don't want to spoil it because I plan to use it for a bigger talk that I'm doing in Toronto in a couple months, so I'm just going to keep it to myself for now. um But yeah, I think it went really well. So I think, so let's kind of go back to intuitive and intuition, right? So I was speaking at a car party event uh in, call it, Lion in the North. And one of the things that, you know, I, when I was in Japan, as I mentioned a couple episodes ago, I was debating whether or not I get these shoes or not, because yellow, bright yellow shoes, you know, with black stripes stand out, right? So if anybody's ever seen Kill Bill with Uma Thurman in that yellow jumpsuit, like she was wearing those shoes. And that's what, you know, kind of, kind of had this resurgent of these shoes and they stand out. It's like, I'm not sure how many outfits that actually work. So I actually, surprisingly, I actually use Chat GPT and a bunch of AIs. I was like, okay, can you just like, I just took a picture of certain things that I, this is what I'm to wear. And they actually created a picture of me, yellow shoes. I'm like, that one, that outfit should actually go with it. anyways, intuition was like, was right. felt my intuition was, every part of me just goes, those shoes are gonna be a little bit too much for you, Lawrence. Like I'm a little bit more conservative, but there was something in me that says, no, like I gotta have these shoes. I gotta wear them. And even after I purchased them, was like, the excuse I had, I told my kids this, right? The excuse I had, I'm like, hey, even if I only wore them, on stage the one time to tell a story that was relevant, um it was worth the $80 that I spent on these shoes.

That's pretty, that's pretty cheap for, you know, uh retro style type, because you look at what basically some MX's are and, and yeah, that's yeah.

Oh, it's, it's yeah, it wasn't like a, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I didn't spend like a couple of hundreds. was less than about, oh, maybe it was a hundred or whatever, but it's like still, like it's a very reasonable price and it's worth the price to pay for the story. And this is where like that's for me, the story matters most. And gotta say, man, when I wore those, I felt different, man. It was like, this feels good. Now I'm debating, should I wear these more often? But anyways, I felt really good about it. So intuitively, just felt there was something there that I couldn't logically.

I don't talk.

Right? Logically pinpoint to go like these actually look good. Because my wife's just like, they're the most ugliest shoes ever. But to me, intuitively, just felt right. And when I wore them, there's some, I don't know about you, like I don't know if there's a certain suit that you, or you're actually not a suit guy. But there's a, I'm gonna remember one time. Yeah, you're a suit, okay.

I love suits. I love suits. Like you don't see him now. Uh, but I love suits. grew up with them. My mom was a dressmaker growing up. My mom was a dressmaker and she used to, um, um, make a whole lot of our, a lot of our clothes. And so as a kid, I used to constantly be like three, four, five, where suits all the time. Yeah. So that was it. Right.

It's like an armor, right? You know, like you wear a suit. Yeah. Oh no, I didn't. Okay. Wow, that's awesome. That is so good. Yeah.

So I've got a whole lot of suits, but I just don't get a chance to wear them as much these days, but I love suit. love rocking a suit.

Well, I remember my the first like, I saw it's not the first suit I ever bought, but I bought this like suit I had to wear for like, I think it was a DG or something like that, you know, like some presentation. And it was like some, you know, $200 suit or something. And I bought and you know, like, because you had to, everybody had to wear a suit when you're speaking. And, uh, and then when, you know, I, I got serious more about speaking, I actually decided to go, you know, like maybe just see like, how can I upgrade the suit and actually get it fitted, you know, get it tailored and stuff. And I put on this, I still remember I put on the Zenya suit.

it. Oh yeah. em

And I don't know what it was, Jim. I got to tell you, like, I put it on, you know, like, holy crap, I feel really good in this. Like, I'm like, something about this, like, makes me, it was so strange. It's like, you know, a suit. But it was like this power, you know, I can't describe it any other than something goes into it. there's one movie, it's, I can't remember the name, it's a Jack, Nicholas Cage was in it. And he's like,

Yeah.

in this movie on Christmas, it was sort of like the Christmas Carol kind of like remake, right? And he was like this rich guy, whatever, and then he gets poor. But one time he goes back into the store when he's poor and he wears the Xenia suit, it was actually the Xenia, and he was like, oh, and he just felt, I felt that, like it was just amazing just how, and look at the price tag, you're like, holy crap, this is insane. Am I really gonna jump from, yeah, yeah. Exactly. was like, I don't remember exactly how much it was, but it was not $300. It was definitely in the thousands. And you're like, Oh, can I do this? But I just, you know, I put it down like intuitively, I just let no, I just feels too good. And yeah, I think every time I put on that suit, I still have it actually, you know, then I started, you know, going a little bit insane. I think about like three or four different like high end suits. But each of them has a certain feel like everything just sort of, you know, blends in. And I know it seems like to people like you're talking you know, crap out of your ass right now. I don't know, something about it, It's just.

No, man. No, it's, it's It's true because yeah, it is not like from a, from a, uh, women will tell you this, but from a guy's perspective, uh, uh, fitted suit and one that's been for you, nothing, nothing better. I've definitely, I've got suits like that too, where you look at this and go, it's not how much it costs. It's what it makes you feel. And, you walk into a room and you own the room. It's no different where, you know, there's some situations where. Like when you've obviously flown to, see the 49ers or I've paid a huge amount of money to have some time with someone who is really, really important in the space that I want to work with. And you can't justify it logically, but you just go, this is something, this is a growth opportunity for me. I'm going to invest. You know, and I've, I've invested tens of thousands of dollars sometimes to speak to someone for a short period of time because. You're you can bet your bottom dollar that you're not going to walk out of there and just take it half heartedly. You're going to immerse every, every part of it. So every investment you put into those high end ones to me that they have, it has a disproportionate return. know what it is, but if you, that's when you sort of trust yourself when you suddenly go every part of you is gone. This is crazy. It doesn't make sense. And yet I feel it's the most normal and important thing that I step through. Cause if I can step through this, the person I am going to be on the other side of this. It's going to be totally different, but it will not make logical sense.

Yeah. I think I, you ever seen that interview with Guy Ritchie that Joe Rogan did with Guy Ritchie like many, many years ago. You gotta go look that up. would highly recommend anybody go on YouTube and just go find that Guy Ritchie 10 minute conversation, yeah, 10 minute conversation with Joe Rogan about the suit of armor. And he talks about this exact same thing. He basically says, this is during the time when he wrote, I think King Arthur, ah that movie.

No. Okay. I love Guy Ritchie stuff. I really, really enjoy. Okay. Yep. I love that.

And he talks about, yeah, so he talked about the suit is the men version of a suit of armor back in the day. And he's like, that's what, because every day you put on a suit, like, and he wears a suit all the time, but every time you put on your suit, it's like you putting on your armor, you know, to go to war and to be prepared. And he just, he just explains it in just such a beautiful way. You're like, I want to wear a suit today.

Yep. Yep. Yeah.

You know, it was just a great way. So I definitely highly recommend anybody who's actually interested in stuff to go look that up. I think it's a great video.

So do you think it's, um, what's that book? it the alter ego? think we've both read that the alter ego where you can. Todd Herman. Yeah. I remember you, I remember you mentioned Todd. So that's along the principle of, of that. So there's an alter ego of Lawrence has stepped up on stage to talk with those yellow shoes that you're probably talking about there. And that's a queue and, uh, and, uh, uh, basically, uh, a reference that actually steps into the identity of the person who.

Yeah, yeah, good friend of mine, Todd Herman wrote that, Yes. Yeah.

can actually get huge value as a result of that.

And hence, like, I don't want to wear them every day. Like, hence I don't, I'm always like keeping in the cupboard and only wear them on certain occasions. Because it's like, it's, I almost want to keep it only for, for those moments and not wear them every day because it's not something I want to bring out every single day. So actually that's, that's really important though. think that, you know, going back to the conversation around logic and intuition, that's what it is, right? There's like, there's this

Yeah.

Logically, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever because you're still the same person whether you wear those shoes or not. But there is something that shifts, at least in my opinion, something that does shift in you when you are, you know, putting yourself in a position to kind of switch into that alter ego, switch into that, or at least draw out that particular power or energy or strength that you always had, but it's now accessible because you made certain decisions.

Yeah. And you're right in not wearing them all the time because they lose that ability to tap into that feeling. Cause it's kind of like a, muscle that's constantly stretched, loses its capacity, capacity to contract. so, uh, effective or, you know, so if I like that effectively, you're to pull out for special occasions and they become the alter ego versions of you. But imagine if they were 10 times that amount for us. Like here's where, you know, you can look at it and go, okay, there were 80 bucks.

That's right.

Karen doesn't really like them for some reason I do, but if they were 800 bucks or $8,000 and you made the same decision, that's when we're going into a totally different realm. Right.

Yep, agreed, agreed. And that's like for someone that could be a watch. For someone it could be a certain jacket. And I've done that too as well. There's certain things that are unjustifiable logically. uh I don't buy a lot of things, but when I do buy certain things that are just kind of weird, ah that it's a little bit more that I probably shouldn't spend any money on. But it's like I buy it for a reason because of what it represents. Actually, I have something right here, which I've never shown anybody yet, but I'm going to grab it, which is kind of weird. Let me just pull aside. So one night I was in Japan and one night in Japan, was, uh you know, speaking, was walking around with my son. He wanted to go. I can't remember what it was. He just wanted to get something. And I walked, I just walked into this random store and it had like all these like action figures and

Okay. Boom.

and all these like, know, from different characters and there's tons of them uh in Japan. But I have a particular favorite character uh in the comics. I used to read a lot of comics. uh And I chose that particular, yeah, there's a whole bunch of comic characters, right? And so I would love for you to guess, like, can you take a venture to guess? Like if I had to choose like an alter ego that I need to draw like, okay, so strength from and...

suspense is killing me.

Who do you think it would be from a, I'll even give you like, it's a more of a Marvel side of comics, not DC, Marvel. Yeah, Marvel, definitely a character. Who would it be?

Like to me, for me, for me, it's always Batman. Like that's Batman for me. Like I just, uh, uh, we joke about it in a half, but he's my ultimate, um, you know, action hero is Batman. don't know. Yeah.

Yep, he's definitely one of those for sure. Like Batman, I used to have a massive figure of Batman in my office. I gave it to my son. I had a statue just to represent it. So I do like Batman for the reason that he has no superpowers, right? Other than being rich.

Correct. Yeah. Which, actually, that's the thing is like the one that when you have a superpower and yet you have everything that all superheroes have. So I totally, totally get that. Yeah. Okay. You've got me. ah

All right, so I'm gonna give you one guess. I one guess and it's like, it's very similar to my shoes in terms of color. So I'll give you kind of that. Can you venture a guess? I'll give you five seconds if not. Okay. So there you go. It's Wolverine. So anyways, I haven't even actually uh opened this yet. I just been sitting on my desk. It's still in the box. I'm debating whether I should actually keep it in the box or, so I actually have, like I bought these like,

Nah, nah, nah, I can't. Go. Oh, all right. Wow. It's in the box. Okay. Thanks for the big reel. Okay.

things that go on this wall. So I'm going to actually like put it here somewhere down the road. I, it's a background one day. Um, yeah. So Wolverine, can remember like, uh, I don't know how I was thinking about this. Like, you know, if I'm doing a workout or doing something and I'm just like, they're always thinking about like, what's a special move that you can kind of do to kind of like embody this like second, um, you know, secondary ego in you. And then I just like thought about like Wolverine. That's just that there's something about Wolverine that I just always loved. It's just a fierce.

Yeah. Okay. So we'll have it as a background when we have recall. Okay. Is it primal? Primal? Yeah?

Tenacity's yeah, it's just so raw and a killer instinct and um Just like I didn't care didn't give a crap what anybody ever thought of him um There's just this the raw uh Instinct oh of the old Wolverine off from the X-Men now if you think about this He's the exact opposite of who I am naturally like you know me ah it's and that's that's why I think it's the awkward eagle like it's not like He's similar and like, he is really the opposite. I'm nowhere near the fierceness or the, I guess the killer instinct as Wolverine. But this is where I see it's almost like I need to draw someone out, know, to kind of, to pull that outside of me. Because I know these exist in me. It's just that I don't show it very often. But in those times where I feel like near, exactly. Yeah, so that was my sort of like alter ego thing. And that's what I purchased. Like unjustified, I have no idea how much this cost or whatever, but like,

So it's giving you opportunity to, okay, yes. Wow, I like it. Yeah. It didn't matter. Yeah. I'm having that. Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting. Gosh, that's taking me to 75 different places. Um, right now, but I'm going to say, I'm going to say this that years ago, it would have been 1989. I was in first year in chiropractic school. I went and spoke to a guy. Sorry. I went to a seminar, which was a neuro-angustic programming and LP seminar, the local Marvin and

I just said, I want that. Didn't matter exactly. It didn't matter the price. It's just something I want.

Marvin at the time was huge in Australia in terms of, he coached a whole lot of, uh, NLP practitioners. I remember Marvin's a really quiet guy, super quiet, very introspective. And he got on stage and he was talking about, you know, the, the persona and the alter ego almost to the effect. And he got on stage and he was like larger than life. And then he got off and he, and I went, Oh, what's going on? Um, and I'll tell you why I'm, This is really important. And then probably seven or seven or so years ago, I reconnected again with my, I'd spend, you've seen him speak at conferences, but I reconnected with him again. And when did one of his programs, it was an instrumental part of my time and world where that was just before COVID and before our whole transition and move. And, and I worked with Marvin for a while and he helped me work out the next stage and level of aggro. So a lot of what we are doing now, I do trace it back to those periods. Interestingly, during the week, I reached out to him I'm speaking to him tomorrow because I'm sitting in that same sort of plan. And that's the first thing that came to my mind was that intuition alter ego. But then also when you were talking about, I don't know why there's some, so there's an element that I've been sitting with it when I went, listen, I'd love to have a chat to you. He's been a coach of mine. And as much as you and I do a lot for a lot of other people, I think it gives us validity when we go.

Nice.

Listen, I just need to get outside of myself to focus on areas that I can't see. So I'm reaching out and having a conversation with him tomorrow for that same reason, because he was instrumental in critical parts of my life and world. So long way of circling back to trust and intuition. think that was the catalyst for, um, for the conversation today, because I was sitting with it last time, uh, during the week and I was sitting in logic, logic, logic, logic. And I was like, who do I need to speak to? And. I just meditated and it was a picture of Marvin coming through. So that was the, that was the genesis of why I suggested we have a chat about that today.

Interesting. Yeah, and there's, you know, when you first brought up this topic, it reminds me of a story that a former Navy SEAL, Randy, said to me once, right? He talked me through this and I thought it was the best explanation and I've used it in a lot of my talks in terms of going through this. So he was a former Navy SEAL sniper and I had an opportunity to speak with him, like speak with him on stage uh in in Japan, actually, funny enough, eight, nine years ago, and we were, I was there with Joe DeSanna from Spartan Race, and they were just brought in to kind of be the entrepreneurs to kind of speak in front of the US Army. And so we're on the bus traveling from like one side to another, I asked him like, you know, tell me about like the Navy SEALs, like tell me about like, how do you guys make decisions? Because really, at end of the day, you guys are When I'm making decisions, they're not life and death. They're just making decisions. But you guys are, every decision you make could be a life or death of you or someone else in your team. So how do you guys make it? And he had the best explanation I've ever heard anybody say. So he said there's three levels. uh Level one is what we call intuition. So I've changed the words to kind of make it fit, but intuition is definitely the word he used. So intuition, he goes, when you're going into a situation where you have to like, you you're breaking down, you're going into a house and you gotta go down, you know, make sure you cover everybody, right? You go down and if something like intuitively tells you not to go into this particular door, don't quick kick this door down. And you don't listen, that's usually when you make your first mistake. And so the intuition is, so when a Navy SEAL makes a decision, They always go, what's my intuition say right now? And they listen to it. Now, but sometimes as you know, I'm sure we all experienced this where your intuition doesn't say anything. There is no like feedback loop. You're like, come on, give me, should I do this or should I not? And there's nothing. And so therefore then you go to level two and level two he says is basically instincts. This is where you got to go back to your training. The instincts are trained in you. This is why they train you so hard. is because they're trying to ingrain these muscle memory into how would you handle this situation? So you go back to your capacity of training and what you learned. So this is why practice is so important. This is why putting the reps and sets are so important, like what you do in jiu-jitsu. Sometimes I'm sure there's moments, and you can talk about this later, but I'm sure there's moments where you just go, something's not right, or this doesn't feel, and you gotta get yourself out of it, but sometimes it doesn't kick in, and it's like, what does my training have

you

taught me like it's like you just feel I today actually was playing paddle. It was really strange. I remember I'm seeing it more and I can I was just ready to do a smash I can just on the corner of my eye just intuitively knew this person was right here. Right? I didn't look and I just put it into where he wasn't. And I was like, Oh my god, like, I'm getting better at this. I'm actually feeling the way the players are now before I was just like so concentrated and trying to hit this ball straight.

Yeah.

where now I'm actually knowing where people are going. that's the instinct. It's a bit of intuition, but also instinct of just trusting that your body. So level one is intuition. If there's no response, it goes to level two, then it goes to instinct. But if there is no intuition and your instinct doesn't have any answer, then it basically goes to the third level, which I call intelligence, right? Basically, it's your logic brain. What does your logical brain says I should be doing right now? And here's the paradox, or not necessarily paradox, but here's the challenge. The further you go out in terms of getting an answer, which is from intuition to instinct to intelligence, the higher probability of something going wrong. And that's what he said. And I'm like, wow, like that is really the best explanation. go, that's so infactually true for me, at least in my life. ah And it makes total sense to me again.

Hmm. Yes. So that's really good. I'd love to dissect that because you know, the people who are very and legally based, they're going to come in from the other avenue. Right. So, but this is what I found too. Like I respond with instinct. I prefer that as a model, to be honest. And part of the reason why, you know, part of the reason why you and I record the way that we do one take never rehearsed. Sometimes we don't even know what we're talking about until we can do in the shot clock. is because that actually stimulates a part of me that goes, dude, we're on, there's no dress rehearsal here. You just got to, you got to make it happen. You got to tap into what you know and what you trust. And if you don't know something, you declare it. But if you do, it brings out that part. it puts us both on the spot. I love that. really enjoy that. Sometimes what happens though is if you've, you're, if you're, um, your intuition sometimes can be governed by old wounds and old stories. And so sometimes you jump at shadows. So that's the, That's the downside to that, right? Like when we're doing life and death scenarios, I totally agree. That makes a really important model and that makes sense. And I know in my life, I've generally associated more with the model that you're talking about, but then you find people who don't trust themselves. And so they're constantly staying in analysis paralysis. I just need some more information. So there has to be a level where you trust yourself first and foremost. But then there's the other part, and I love to open that for discussion is that other people who start with information first, get all the information and then get to, um, gut instinct where they do it the other way around. that, I don't know that that feels more complicated to me, but that's probably more scenarios where you've got time to think about things through when you get down to this is information. What have my guts say? And, know, I guess it depends on, I guess the urgency of the situation as opposed to which system you use. So thoughts on that.

Yeah, I think there's a couple of things. I'll put my hand up there. know, in certain things that I do or projects that I'm working on, I've definitely been going more intelligence first, like trying to get as much data. And then like years go by and like I'm still waiting for data. And it's like, Lawrence, like, what are we doing here? Like, and I have this talk on myself, like, why are you wasting time? It's because I am so scared of, I don't know, whatever fear I have, I never actually even questioned the fear. I just like wasting time. And I think a lot of us gets paralyzed by the lack of action. And where I see a lot of entrepreneurs that, you know, do succeed is they, they're not waiting for a confirmation. They're just testing stuff out. And if it works, it works. If it doesn't, they move on to the next one. I find that as we get older, I find like I take less risk, I guess, in those realms or in certain areas of my life. um I don't know why and I shouldn't, but that's just sort of how I kind of attributed, but I would say this though, I would say this. In certain areas of my life, I definitely, for whatever reason, the big decisions, I lean on my intuition way more. Because there is no logical way for me to kind of assess the situation, especially in a difficult decision, whether this is right or wrong, because I can probably logically, intelligently justify both sides. I can collect enough data to sway me one side or another depending on the point. And for example, like I know that seems so silly, right? But a big decision like, should I move to Portugal or not? Right.

That's the, that was the other reason why I wanted to talk about this, because I sat with that and I just went, cause you know, I'm preparing to talk to Marvin tomorrow. And a lot of it was, sent me some information and I was just thinking about it and he goes, you know, intuition and logic. I went, well, my gut said go. And then I went and it was nothing like I expected it to be. And so do I rack it up as a, your instinct was wrong or just put it down to experience. Right. So that's the part where.

Mm-hmm.

I'm glad you mentioned about Portugal because that was the one that was really firing for me was to go, okay, you do that. didn't work out that is it that it was wrong or you just found out another pathway and you were prepared to try.

Yeah, so for me, going back to what you just sort of said, you said something very, very interesting. You said, I just thought about it, my instinct said go, and I went, and it didn't go to as planned. So I don't know, we haven't talked about this, so I'm just doing this live, but the assumption you're making there though is that it's wrong.

Yep. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's that that was the that's what came up. And that's why I wanted to dissect that because I went, okay, so does just because you trust your instinct, does it always work out that it's going to be exactly the way that you want? And the answer is no, Yep.

I think it depends, well it depends on what you're measuring and what time frame you're measuring it by, right? So if, know, for example, like I could argue, right? I could argue that five years from now, okay, that we look back and you go, was that the right or wrong decision? Which is gonna be a different answer if I asked you now, Jim, is this the right or wrong decision you made in the last four years and five years? And right now it might feel wrong. I'm not putting words in your I'm just like making it up here, but.

Yep. Good point. Yep.

you haven't seen enough, like say, of where this path is gonna take you, right? And so, I don't know, like I, and maybe I'm wrong on this, this is just how I've operated in my life, is that I tend not to, like for big decisions, I tend not to look back, and maybe this is wrong, but here's what I, I wanna say two comments here. One is, um the people who think from intelligence and waiting for confirmation to intuition, I feel like the reason why,

lag to an F.

they don't trust their intuition is because they never actually followed their intuition enough to create evidence to themselves that their intuition is right. Because they never tried, it's like practice, right? You kind of need to trust yourself to go, yeah, sometimes it's wrong, sometimes it's opinion. And also then calibrate of, is it intuition or is it instinct or was it just like you justifying your intuition, right? So it's calibrating.

Yeah.

each and every single time. if you never do it, you never have any data to kind of compare. So that's one side. The other side I would say is that for me, when I make a decision, again, this is rightly along, this is how I operate. If I made a decision intuitively to make a decision, I tend to not question that choice. I've kind of moved on, it's already made and I can't go back. I don't tend to evaluate. whether that was right or wrong. Sometimes I do, but reality is I'm like, okay, well, what's the point in dwelling over whether it was right or wrong? I can, I'll extract whatever I learned, how I may have, could have done it better. But the reality is that I'm already there. So I'm working with the decision that's coming up in front of me rather than behind me. So I don't know if that makes sense. Like that's sort of how I've always operated.

Yeah. Good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's very helpful because I think the reason why I asked that question is because I had to, I had to do a reality check on myself and because I love action and I had to look at it and go, it intuition or is it sometimes impulsivity? And so I really had to, you know, like I said, I've done as much work on self as I can to just get clarity on some things is because I love movement and momentum stagnation just grinds me big time. just, find it really difficult to, and I I'll do almost whatever it takes to stay out of stagnation because that's not, takes me to places which are just, you know, really, you know, I don't like going there. So I love to be in movement and flow for that reason, but that's what I wanted to work out was, is it your need for movement that guides that, that you sometimes think is intuition or so that's the, that's why I need, I'm going to have someone just dissect that for me because I I need that discernment to be able to get clear, to just go behind or get clear on the level behind the reason because yeah, as I said, I trust my intuition totally, you know, it saves my life and more on more than one occasion. No question. So I trust that I just want to get some clarity on that subtle nuance between, between those two and whether sometimes I can convince myself, like you just said, before convinced myself that it's intuition where it's really just movement and action and momentum that I'm seeking. So.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it might be just the distinction between those two, whether or not the choice and decision you made was purely on intuition or was it because of the movement, right, or the need for movement or continuation. I think of like, I mean, life is like sliding doors, right? And I look back on, you know, my life, I always kind of think about all the sliding door moments and, you know, I wouldn't be here. if it wasn't certain sliding doors that I jumped through or, and at the time it was kind of scary or at the time it was, um I mean, my instinct to go to Australia was weird. Like I don't even know where that came from. I just went to Australia for like a conference in a week and I came back and moved my whole entire family. They made a decision our life and like, this is where we're gonna go. I didn't know it was gonna be there for 20 years. That wasn't like part of the picture, right?

Yeah, you don't, right? You don't.

And, if I didn't, if that didn't happen, I wouldn't have made those subsequent choices and you know, and so on and so forth. And I just still remember like oftentimes is that, you know, there's the, I mean, the one thing that one of the reasons why I left Portugal was like looking out my window and staring at, you know, the view that I had, I had a beautiful view and beautiful place.

Yeah. Did you say Portugal? You said Portugal then? The reason why I left Portugal. oh Is that a big release that you've given me?

Sorry, when I left Australia to come to Portugal, sorry, to come to Portugal. Yeah, yeah, no, no, to come to Portugal, I was staring at my life and realizing like this is the perfect life in a sense, but it scared me, you know? And that was intuitively like just like, it scared me. I know it's kind of strange, but that's what kind of propelled me to move forward, to make a choice. And have I made my life a little harder? Probably, you know, if I look back and like, yeah, probably. Did I make my kid's life a little harder? Yeah, but then now I look at my kids like my daughter's gonna go to university in the UK and in, you know, life and I see the, you know, the friends that they're making now and the life that I get to live right now or the people that I'm, you know, involved with or in touch with and the connections and even this podcast, even talking to you on a regular basis, this never happened before, you know, like, you know, it's so, you think well. what's wrong with this life? Sure, there's challenges, but was like, but you know, these new experiences I've had wouldn't have happened if I didn't make that choice. so I don't know, there's a lot to dissect and I know my case is very different than yours. And I'm not even saying that this is my final place. I know that Portugal probably isn't my final destination, right? And I don't know what the future holds.

Yeah, I like that. like it. I was just, I was just curious because I was just doing that work on myself. So here's a quick question. Does the guy with the yellow sneakers and the suit make more intuitive decisions and less bound by, by, yeah. All So that's when we talked about, when we talked about the, the intangible benefits of something that you just go, man, I got to wear that suit is because that

100%. 100%.

access as something in you that is like a superpower that actually allows you to trust self on a much grander scale. And I know in myself, when I, I'm the same, like if I get up, dress up, show up, and I'm just in that hyper, you know, that hyped sort of golden version of myself, I make decisions that are clearer, quicker, more intuitive, trust those. And if they don't go like that's, that's the thing that I'm, was Really looking at was, and it's not an impulsive decision. It's just, there's an inner knowing and a certainty is like, no, I wear those shoes. I'm going to wear that suit. That's going to catalyze catapult me forward.

Yeah, like for me, it's like tapping into, and that's just what I've been trying to do. And you know this about me, like over the last, you know, say six months, it's like, I'm trying to remind myself of the person that is the one who makes decisions and not sit in contemplation. And it's because like, but that's the thing is it's easy to do when you talk like about the past, it's a lot harder to do. Like remember you're on the, we're on the daily grind. And I like the call of the grind because like every day is a repeat of the next day. And it's like,

Yep.

And it's hard to kind of keep that momentum going, to be, because let's face it, you're not making life in deaf situation, no choices every single day. You're going to live basically your normal life. It's certain moments, but being prepared for those moments is what makes the difference. So yeah, like when I'm on stage, um I'm running on an intuition. Like I did a 15 minute talk that had nothing to do with the talk I prepared for, right? So this is, I had two talks and it's like, Sometimes like I go I honestly five minutes before I went up like I still don't know where this is gonna go But I've done this enough times and that's the key It's like there's the practice before right? years of practice leading up to this moment, it's not like I just like fly by the seat of my pants all the time, but when it comes to presentation I feel confident enough if my ability because I've learned enough and presented enough that I can probably wing a 50-minute conversation or an hour conversation even like a podcast, I've done this enough every single week. exactly, it's practice. It is practice. We don't know what we're gonna talk about, we're just gonna talk. And you notice we never, we always kind of run out of time. We know when to stop. But it's like this practice is what allows us to be in flow when we're in front of a group. And that person, Lawrence that wears those yellow shoes, it's like,

Yep, but we do that every week. We do that every week. As practice, it's ripped.

I just can go with whatever the energy of the room is feeling. If the energy is kind of dying down, like, okay, let's move on to the next thing and I'll have something in my brain to ready go. So it's like two things. One is, is the practice leading up to that moment of like execution, but in the time, Yep, exactly. But in the moment, are you able to like adapt and make quick decisions on the spot? ah And people will say like, wow, you're such a great speaker. He goes, you know, whatever. It's like,

Sharpening the sword, sharpening the sword, doing the reps, yeah?

You don't know how much work and effort I put in to get to this position, right? Or to to be in this, but it's not natural. Like I'm not, I'm an introvert. don't like didn't, I was afraid to speak in front of people. And this is like the thing that I try to pass on to my kids. Like I remember we just talked about this before. Like we know I had the wellness uh breakthrough like years ago. I don't know if you ever came in Melbourne. We started like a thousand people at this convention. And one of the, I showed them one of the pictures because when my kids were probably around like,

Yep. Yeah.

maybe six or three, I brought them on stage. I did it intentionally because I'm like, they were young enough not to be afraid, but like they're young enough also not to know like any different. So I brought them on stage and got them to speak for a little bit, right? And you ask them questions and they know the answer is gonna be, because I want them to going, this is the thousand people, you've done it. Like you have nothing to be afraid of, right? And like both of them now, like, Sure, one of them is happy and go lucky. They don't care who they speak to, but the other one's a little bit reserved, but he can speak. Like he can, like he's on the, you know, he's just made it to the finals again, in terms of doing his speech, but he can, like he can turn it on. He doesn't do it naturally, but he can turn it on. He has got that ability. When he's on stage, he's like, oh, but I, I hope that it was, no, I don't know. I'm guessing it's also because we've been training them because I know the number one skill that most people are afraid of is public speaking. And I wanted to make sure that that's not the crutch. That's not going to be the friction point for them in the future. I don't care whatever they do, but knowing to be able to speak in front of people naturally, ah it's a skill that you have to learn from not a young age, but like at some point you got to put in the reps and sets. If you're afraid, if you're listening to this and go, I'm afraid to speak. like, you just need to do more. You just do it every day anyways with people. You just got to be more comfortable. And because that's the only way to get better at it.

Yeah. Yeah. And stepping out of yourself before you are comfortable is definitely the key is just making a habit. know, like the Lawrence, the biggest intersection of great orators intuition to me is the Martin Luther King speech and the backstory. You know, the whole, you know, the, one for people who may not have been, I'll be aware of the backstory. So Martin Luther King prepared the speech, but he actually didn't deliver the speech that he, that he had prepared.

Yes. Oh.

Right. And so when he was, when he was walking up to the dice, thousands of people in attendance, he's looked over and it was a jazz singer, Michaela Jackson, who was there going, tell them about the speech. Tell them about the speech. Tell them about the Tell them about the dream. And then he's looked at, look at her, looked at the people, looked at her, and he just went boom. And he delivered, have a dream, which was not what he had planned. And to me that is like, I get goosebumps when I think about that.

Tell them a dream, tell them a dream. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, me too, right now.

the story that he had, but also he just trusted himself in the moment to go totally different. And to me that that's, and that changed the course of history, you know, uh, from, from there, from the story. you don't always have those moments, but that's kind of what that feels like. If we're going to, if I was going to try and explain it where you prepare for something and either life or situation means that you just do something different, but you've got to step into that power, whether it's you're wearing those.

Absolutely.

yellow shoes and a suit and deliver or whatever it helps you the equivalent to get to the, that person who delivers. And that can make a massive difference.

Yeah. And that story is told by George Ravling. If anybody's ever want to look and research a guy, George Ravling, I met him. I actually a very tall basketball player. Uh, he came to, and that's how I knew that story was because George Ravling tells that story because he talked about intuition and just being right down. He was a tall, you know, black basketball player who happened to be walking around that same, it's like, you know, are you coming to the march? And they're like, what do you want March? So they started walking and then someone just said, Hey,

Okay.

what are you guys doing here? I'm doing it for March. You believe in the cause. He goes, yeah, I believe in the cause. He goes, come here, we need you. Show up here. Because there are two, like six foot eight basketball players. We need you to be a bodyguard. So they were the bodyguard. So they actually brought in, they were on stage. He was on stage when Martin Luther King was delivering that speech. so here's the crazy story. So he delivers a speech. So he knows, he knows that he heard, I can't remember the woman you just mentioned, he goes like, tell him about the dream, right? Tell him about your dream.

Oh, wow. Kayla Jackson.

And so when he was done the speech, Martin Luther King folds the speech and was just about to put it in his pocket. Instinctively, intuitively, he goes, Dr. King, can I have that? Gave it to George Raveling, kept it, and he kept it in a book for like years and then realized like, I think I got something I should probably, you know, like keep this in the safe now. Unfortunately, George passed away I think last year.

Yeah.

um But you know, now I think he donated, he could have sold it. He didn't do anything. I believe it's donated to, you know, uh the African American, you know, institutions or whatever. So that's not in the speech. I have a dream is not in that speech and hence like that, but that's the original. And George Ravling has such a fantastic story. And I'll wrap this up in here because if you ever watched Michael Jordan, uh air, you know, the movie about Air Jordans, yeah, George Ravling's character is in that because

Yeah.

George Raveling, his journey, his life story is awesome. His life story is that he is the one, supposedly is the one who got Michael Jordan to sign with Nike. ah Yes, yes, like his life story, he is the one of the nicest people in the world. I had a picture with my kids actually with him. I just got to find it somewhere, but he is absolutely an amazing story. So if anybody wants to know more about George Raveling, should go. He did an interview with Tim Ferriss.

Really? Wow.

and he talks about the mastermind talks that I was actually there with. there's a whole interview with George and George is just a phenomenal human being. He's one of those kindness human being. He was probably like 70 or 80 years old when I met him and he was still working for Nike. That's how fascinating he is. He was the first black coach, think, university, NCAA coach to coach a basketball team or something similar to that. winning coach anyways, he was a phenomenal human being. So intuition changes everything. And I think falling into tradition can make all of these life decisions that you just never know how it happened until much later. So like Steve Jobs, you only can connect the dots afterwards. In hindsight, you can't connect the dots forward. So I think sometimes trusting intuition to me at least is worthwhile than trying to use logic.

Thanks for today, Lawrence. That links up. did, we went this, this tour. love that we're trying to bring it back in. was trying to bring those yellow shoes in as many times as I possibly could. Uh, but it was an important thing because it took, you know, uh, and we started with one area and that's what I love, you know, like when we talk about intuition and logic, the intuition us, we just go with one path. And how amazing is it that we, there are complimentary bits of information that complete a story that individually, either of us might not have known.

oh Yeah.

But when we bring it together, so, yeah, about this and this, and I love that, that, that component of creating something, uh, live, just, it's a real high for me. So thank you for today.

ah That was great stories and I love I love to hear more people talk about their intuitions and their stories and where their life kind of leads them and if you look back in your life I'm guarantee you a lot of those choices was just the right choice in the moment, even though it went against every conventional logical uh Instinct to say do the opposite but you did it the opposite way and you you turn out the way you are because of that instinct so I hope that you enjoyed this podcast. We'll talk to you next time until the next episode This is what we saw be the art of imperfection. Take care