The 100th Episode

Welcome to Wabi Sabi. This is the special episode of the Wabi Sabi episode, Wabi Sabi. Look at this. We get here and then I'm fumbling through my words, but it is the Wabi Sabi podcast, the art of imperfection. And I did that maybe, just maybe on purpose because we're about imperfection. Today is the 100th episode and we've gotten here. And yes, after 100 episodes, we're still making mistakes, Jim. That's just a part of what life is about.

Thank Yeah. Yeah. oh Yep. Yeah. Well, Lawrence, as we, you anybody who follows cricket will understand that you raise it, make a hundred, you raise the bat. So we're raising a bat to a hundred episodes. And interestingly, just so that anybody has, as under any illusion that we live this as well. I said to Lawrence, Hey, I think we should do, you know, like it's, approaching a hundred, let's do a hundred episode podcast and literally hit the shot clock. And there was no answer. There was no response. There was no. I think this guy, could do this. It's like, boom, we're on. So, um, yeah, this is, this is a, I thought it'd be a great opportunity to look back on a hundred episodes, you know, what it took us to start. Gosh, us fumbling it through at the start and continue to fumbling through what we've learned and you know, what's moving forward, you know, how do we, how do we use this as a, either a base or what have we learned to progress to the next stage?

Yeah, so it'd be very clear it's the 100th episode of Wabi Sabi not, you know, celebrating Jim's 100th year here. yeah. Oh, I remember that. That was such a great, such a great series.

No, I'm not. I'm not a hundred year old, man. I'm not a year old. I'm not, I'm not a Highlander for anybody who's old enough to remember that show. I'm not a Highlander. That's, that's a brilliant one. If you haven't, I went into, um, I was at the gym probably about eight months ago and there was this young couple, uh, in the sauna at the same time as I, after a training and they're talking about my guys. I love these old retro movies. They're fantastic. They're this, they're that. And they're talking about the Highlander and they go, I don't know what it's called. And I've just interrupted that man. It's Highlander. It's one of the greatest movies about immortality ever. And anyway, I just showed my age and they go, Oh, it's really cool. It's retro. I I watched it the first time around. So that's how old I am. But yeah, it's, I'm not a Highlander. I'm not immortal. I'm not a hundred. Uh, but this is our hundredth episode.

Yeah, well, I hope that we continue this journey. But yeah, so the 100 episode surprisingly came around a lot faster than I thought, to be honest with you. Like for me, um I know what it takes in terms of the podcast journey to kind of reach this milestone. It doesn't seem like a lot, but most, I can't remember the stat, you shared the stat with me, but most podcasts never make it past, I don't know, five episodes or so. And yeah.

Yeah, five or seven is most never do

And to get to a hundred is, it is a strong milestone. And really, this is really more for us, but you know what, I think the journey uh for me is, it's just the learning of the rhythm between me and you. Like, I mean, I think the beginning is also just trying to recognize, if you remember when we first started, we actually had three people and, and, and we, thought that, you know, the third person will bring this nice element to it. And unfortunately just, you know, she just felt that it wasn't right for her. And so we had like, it was a false start. We recorded one and it's just.

Yeah, we did. We did.

I don't think that actually went anywhere. And then we then had to figure out a name for the podcast and like, you know, what most people don't know. Jim just doesn't care. Jim has no, has no like care in the world. It's probably the best of like the name or what it's called. And you know, I'm sure he does a little to an extent, but he just like, he just wants to like go where I'm a little bit like, oh, need a little bit of perfection in the name and so on and so forth. And took us a little while just even to pick a name. That's why we never got started. So that's the beginning journey.

Oh, yeah. I Isn't it ironic? Isn't it? Isn't it ironic that for someone who is, he said stumbled over imperfection, we came across as the art of imperfection. So I, I, I couldn't help but say that, but you know what, to me, you're right though, Lawrence is that they have to be complimentary parts. Right. And, uh, the, the part I think I've enjoyed this process is that it hasn't been stressful. Right. And I think both of us, um, when we started this project, we just go, man, we don't know where this is going to go. Right. We don't know where it's going to go.

Yeah

But how about we just start the process and, let it evolve. And there were elements that, know, there's certain things that you go, you take the lead on the certain things that I'll take a lead on, but at the end of it, it's like, okay, how do, what do we do when we're together and how do we bounce off each other? So yeah, you're right. The parts that matter to you. It doesn't matter to me, you know, because to me are the fun in the joys in the recording. So the names are all the kinds of things, which are important. aren't on my radar as the most important. So that's why not only in just this, but other areas, I recognize the importance of it, but I'm not the person who's driving them. Does that make sense?

Yeah, and I had to like learn a little bit from you at the beginning too as well because I knew the only reason why it's stopping us from recording the first episode was actually the name. And if we couldn't come up with the name, we couldn't start recording. And if the more perfect I had to try to be at getting the right name in the first place, it actually became harder and it delayed and delayed. And at some point, and this is a lesson, you know, obviously for other things in life, that's my point of this is that at some point you just need to make a decision. and decision to either start or not start. And the decision for this podcast to start was to actually just name it and just go with it. And we can change it if we wanted to. that takes a lot of letting go, like having the courage to let a name be the name and letting go of like the imperfection of it, but letting go that you could have to eventually change the name in the future, letting go of the fact that it's not perfect. are other things involved in that.

Yeah.

That's what usually stops us from making decisions. And this year, I'm more conscious of that. I'm full, like it taking me, you know, I know even though I'm learning lessons still, right? At 50 years old, but like I'm recognized that that's what has been holding me back in a lot of other projects, was I'm just waiting for perfection in certain areas, even though I have a podcast, I'll talk about imperfections. And what I realized, like I was doing too much of it. And this year is more about my word has been shipped, like shipping things out there.

Yep.

getting stuff out there and not worrying about it. I, you know, it's only been a week. So, so far I have been doing more shipping and getting stuff out there. And I'm proud of the seven days that I have been doing this for.

Hmm. Yep. That's awesome. But you know what you're 100 % correct in that. And I don't want it to be, um, I don't want put the impression that nothing matters to me. Like there's some things that in my wheelhouse, like you want to, you want to know that I really, that really matters to me and the finite detail happens, but there's certain areas where I realized this is not my strength. I'm not the person to pick colors or that's not my jam. That's not what I like doing. You know? So I can surrender to that. And I think it happened because, you know, I've been, I've been collaborating with, you know, people over many years over different ventures and specifically with the tenure and I we've worked out individual skill sets and there were times I realized I'm a very good starter of something very good. Like when is now a good time? Let's go done. Uh, and I don't mind if it's clumsy because I gained momentum, but after a certain point, when I look at this and go, is this the best version of this? That's when I go, no, I need help. because me bumbling and stumbling along, like remember that how we first started, we were in the throes of an international move. And you know, I was recording in a, in a very echoey room, you were recording on site and the smaller device, you didn't have a house, right? And so it was like, if we wait until everything is perfect and yet now it's still not perfect. We wouldn't be a hundred episodes deep into a podcast. to me, I.

Yes, I was with the smaller device. was, yeah, because I didn't have my house back then yet. That's right. That is so true. I forgot about that.

We just started, we just started with a stuff it man. Let's go. haven't got, I want to be tinny and I'm on the road. I'm doing this. I'm doing that. And it's here we are.

Yeah, I still remember I was on my iPad sitting on a bed recording recording. That's right. So we got about that. uh

And I could pick where you were different Airbnb is because you had a different backdrop. Oh, this looks like a different place. When you went and you took, you took all the audience with you in terms of the journey, you know, like here's where you were. This is what it was. And it was like, you know, when they say art imitating life, that's what you were doing. It was, it was the case. So there was nothing more that could demonstrate the art of imperfection that you living it.

That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

through the fact that none of the situations are perfect. And do you remember the episode when I was in Barcelona waiting to move to Edinburgh and I was in an Airbnb myself and I'm laughing, I pulled back the drawer and there's a guy in the background in his drawers and he's like, he's doing like naked yoga on the balcony. So that's just funny, man. That's just funny. I look back in that and go, what a journey that's been.

There's a guy in the back. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's funny. that. And that's why, you know, the 100, uh, matters a lot. Cause if you think we're both really good quick starts, uh, but we're usually terrible finishers and here we are, we're still grinding away. We're still recording and we're still moving along. And, um, and, and I think we talked about this on one of the episodes recently where we talked about it's, this is the, the proof of the evolution that it's not about just starting, but it's actually sticking through it. And then the evolution of it and the incremental.

Mmm.

Changes are small, but it's cumulative and is stacked on you know each after each episode in our case And that's the same thing for for life and it's a perfect analogy of life where it isn't about starting a habit or creating a habit It's actually about sticking to the habit long enough where the incremental changes are not clearly evident But once you stack it enough you start to realize how far you've actually come when you actually look back in the journey m It's like no different than you recap your year, you you think your year is okay. And then when you look back, I'm like, man, I did a lot, you know, you know, and so like I've done a lot of things and it's kind of crazy when you actually think about those journeys. I think that's important for us to reflect upon.

Yeah. Yeah, totally, totally. And it was only even like a few weeks ago where we were just offline. We're going, Hey, where do we want to go? Where do we want to take this? So we even contemplated, should we change the name? Should we? And the conclusion, I guess you came to, which I thought made sense was look, the natural evolution of things will take care of itself. We will go in a particular format. Uh, what feels right for us will evolve. And, and, and I agree. I think that that's definitely the case for that. So the quick question. So if we've got two. notoriously rapid starters. Um, what, what do you think has allowed that process to continue on? As you said, to a hundred. we've got to a hundred. We've talked about it in passing, but you know, what are the things that have made this journey? And the reason why I asked that is because you may not aspire to have a podcast. You may aspire to start doing something else or start a new habit or start a new venture. What can we, what have we learned? that we could pass on in that regard for someone who may be contemplating starting something themselves.

Yeah, I think the first thing I will maybe go back and forth and I'll share one and you can share one. But the first thing that comes to mind is, uh you know, setting the expectation between us right from the beginning. So I think in any partnership, what's important is that you got to really recognize uh what are the boundaries of what you kind of want to work and the framework that you want to put the two or multiple people want to work within. I think when you set that boundaries, it makes it lot easier to make future decisions rather than making the decisions along the way.

Yeah.

I think I've done that a couple of times where we're just like, oh, we'll just wing it, we'll figure it out. And then when something usually doesn't happen until it gets to a point where it annoys one or the other person. And if we didn't set those boundaries beforehand, it's a lot harder to navigate because you don't know how they actually feel about that situation. So the clear thing I still remember at the beginning is that number one is that this, will continue this podcast as long as it's fun for us. And I think setting that as an objective is important, right? I know we can, know, what does fun actually defined as, but we, know, that's within Jim and I can, we'll know that in our heart whether this is fun or not anymore. But the reality is, is that we set that as a tone setter of going, we will continue this until it's no longer fun. We also said that we're also gonna record this in a way that this is not gonna be a detriment to our daily lives and our daily work when. meaning like we didn't have to have the pressure of constantly producing every single week or um having to upload every week and have the external pressure um because like, know, because things life happens, you know, we have summer holidays or whatever. And, you know, if it wasn't convenient for one of us because we both travel a lot, it just wasn't going to happen. And we're not going to be like beat ourselves on my butt. But Jim, come on, man. Like we got an episode to produce right now. You know, I've done that. And again, I'm not saying that's best practice, but it's just how we set up the rules for this podcast or function and work. Obviously it has its cons, consequences, but it's just how we kind of set it up and to make us this longevity so far.

Yeah, I think that that's, that's probably the biggest thing for me is that we were clear on, you know, what, what, what was the purpose of it? We, we, we weren't so clear. There wasn't an outcome that we were looking for. I think that, and to be honest, I still don't think we have an outcome. just like, we're, haven't gone and said, because I was talking to someone earlier today who's really trying to expand a social media presence. And he said, I'm, I'm working here to get to that. And that's really helpful. And there's parts of my life and world that I definitely do that. This wasn't one of them. I'll be honest, because to me, it was like, I want to be able to do that. And sure, there has to be a purpose to it. And the fact is, if it didn't feel like it was purposeful, at the very least I'll walk off after the time we record and go, man, I've got some clarity here. Thank you. really appreciate the timelines. And at the very least, so I'm getting like that, but I didn't get out out of it, you know, the expectation that this is going to achieve that. What I really trusted in the process was I'm going to show up. I'm going to deliver at that time. And as you said, the biggest thing was the restriction in it. And the agreement that we had that because we're traveling, we would actually have episodes recorded in the bank. We've modified that. So it hasn't impacted on our lives. So fact, it wasn't just another thing that we both had to do. And that I think has added to the enjoyment of that process for me as well.

Yeah, and I think that for us, like, you know, the downfall, like we'll talk the negative side of things is that we don't actually have, you know, the vision or purpose of this podcast. um And it has consequences to, you know, the brand, to the direction and also our efforts into it, right? But at the same time, though, like I also recognize that, you know, I think having that would have caused...

Yeah.

some consequence somewhere else, which I don't know what that is at the moment. then, but it would have taken that energy and would taken the joy and the fun, but like, the minute, okay. So basically what we're summarizing here is we had our low minimum standard that we wanted to keep, which was have fun. We get something out of it. And if, at the end of the day, if no one listens, it's just you and I just gain to like, you know, be better at. communicating to each other and also helping each other out with our individual problems every single week, that is almost good enough for us to kind of be okay with. I think lowering that standard is helpful to kind of move a project that you're not necessarily sure where the outcome is, but you know it's going to be worthwhile doing it. And I feel like, you know, if we stopped here, it's been worthwhile. I have no regrets whatsoever for doing it. And I've learned a lot and I'm, you know, I'm very thankful because it got me through some

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yep.

know, challenging times over the last couple of years.

Yeah, actually that's, that's summarized it really well because there was, we were in massive transition in ourselves. And I think because we, I was reflecting on what you just said there. And I think it was, it wasn't that neither of us aren't clear on what's important is that we were going through such a transition and change in both our worlds that, you know, there were periods where I'm like, I don't know which way is up to be honest. And, and I can't think big picture and moving forward when there's things that are changing on the daily. And so I think this, what I've appreciated here is that we have got a record of the journey and the process and what it was like for us as we were progressing. And I think this is what I was talking to you last, late last year about is like, okay, well, are we stable enough to now go, all right, let's really think about what we want to do here. Or are we content with that? So that's something for you and I to work out and what direction, if there's a particular theme, if there are particular experiences or offerings that we want to have as a result of that, because, know, thankful, it's not just your mom and, and, and, uh, you know, like our moms and dads and kids that just listen, there are people who reach out and go, Hey, really, I really enjoying that. So it's for us to decide, you know, what do we want to do with this? Is it, is it enough that we do what we do, or do we want to, um, find some kind of way of. Leveraging this that's for you and I to decide, but to me what it held, you know, there were, were times that I know that, uh, you know, I was, uh, particularly, you know, when I'm moving to a new country and I didn't know anybody, you know, and I was stuck, there was, and I, and I was honoring my own agreements. could get into a place where I could be of service to somebody else, but I, there were times where I knew that the best thing for me was to get on a call. with you in a podcast and record exactly what my mind was going through. And that in the process was going to be helpful. And there were times where both you and I got on, on there and we poured our heart out, you know, in a very vulnerable way. And we had a massive sort of takeaway from that ourselves. So that that's, that's what I got out it as well.

Mm. Yeah, so this is a call to action for anybody who's listening or watching this is that, you know, if you have a thought uh of what we could potentially talk more of, or will love to our perspective on, please send us a message personally, if you want, or, you know, to whatever channels you can reach us at, because I'd love to hear it, because I'd love to kind of explore those, because, you know, that's what we're debating on at the moment. But um what I think also to add to that is accountability. I think when the...

Hmm.

One of the most wonderful thing about podcasting is that when you are having a conversation like this, we, you know, either with friends or, you know, we just happen to do it in public and live in person, what it does is that it forces you to have to really think through your thoughts and condense them in a manner that is somewhat coherent and communicate in a way that people can understand. And what it also does for, least for me, is that it forces me to be held accountable to the things I say. And what I mean by that is that I get really uncomfortable when I actually don't do this to say something that I don't do. So I'm very cautious about like, oh, that would be a great advice here. But then I was like, yeah, but I don't even do that. So I wouldn't say it. And so that's what I mean by accountability. So sometimes the accountability is on the things that I don't do or don't say.

Go.

but there's also accountability of the things I do say. So meaning like, if I said, hey, Jim, that's a great idea, I'm gonna implement that or yeah, and I maybe tell a story to explain a certain point and then it reminds me, I'm like, wait a second, Lawrence, you haven't been doing that in the last little while, you gotta get back on top of that. And like that type of accountability is very, very powerful and strong, at least for me to kind of make sure I write my life.

Yeah.

writing my life, meaning like moving in the right direction in the lane every single week.

Yep. Yeah. And I think now after a period of time of, of being on here, there's a difference between performing and the difference between communicating. Right. And, we're in conversation mode, discussion mode. It's not performing, you know, which is, and that's the reason why I always wanted to have, you know, a minimum of two people on a podcast rather than just me talking because that's performing right to a degree. And, and that you don't get that interaction with someone. So I really love that.

Hmm.

process and we've never gone interview for my format either, you know, we we've contemplated it. Do we want to do that? Uh, but because we we've had the two of us that bounce off each other, it's where we've gone into that as a concept and the thought, um, uh I, I, I, I've really been cognizant. I think we both have is to actually, uh, talk about a topic, whatever topic that will be and show how we're working through that as well. Because the sometimes there's the. There's the unapproachability component where people have a perspective that, okay, you don't have a problem at all. And it's just me. So no, no, dude, I'm, I'm laying it out here. This is what I'm saying. I that I've been working on myself and if it allows you and it personalizes us and it allows you to understand that you're not alone in what you're working on. Um, then that's a big victory as far as I can see. Right.

For sure, absolutely. What do you think of the last 100 episode? I know this question just kind of came out of my mind. I even know how I'm going to answer this, but what's been the most frustrating thing that has happened in the last 100 episode? Like, is there anything that particular comes to mind?

frustrating other than like sometimes technologically have been the issues, you know, like that's, that's just outside of my control. Frustrating. um I think, I think that both of us being who we are, there's a part of me that says, okay, we've got to a hundred episodes. We really have, have got the momentum. Um, and we've made it work based on our life. So, and so this is the counter to what you said. I pumped times go, what would have happened if we were all in. I don't know that that sometimes is the frustrating part where I just go, I, know, when I'm on.

Hmm. Yeah.

The, the episode with you, Lawrence, I give you a hundred percent as you do. The question that I asked myself is, okay, well, okay. What, what are we doing for that? Right. So if the process. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Correct. Yeah. So that's the, that's the part of me that I I love that. Right. And I, and I enjoy that, but that's the part of me. The frustrating is the question that keeps circling my mind is like, okay.

What if this was our one and only thing that we do and this is what we made all our monies from or like, you know, everything, our brand, everything is related to this, what would we do?

I guess maybe I'm, I'm, very discerning in all my energy and effort and go, okay, this is filling a need and a value and it's, and it's fulfilling and it's really enjoyable, but you now are filtering life through a, a uh hourglass that's slowly decreasing in time. So it's like, what is the real benefit and bonus to you? Uh, and is there more to it? So that's, that's the part of it that I'm not unfulfilled. I really enjoy.

Yeah.

That process, that's the part of me that just goes, okay. Uh, what's the objective and purpose of everything. And this is not just in the podcast. I do that now with everything that I, that's been my time. I'm just going, okay, what's the metric.

Yeah, that's true honesty, man. That's definitely a tough one because it's something that's in the back of my mind too as well. Like, why do we do this? ah And, you know, what if, right? The what if question. yeah, and think that's probably one of the reasons why, you know, it's not, hasn't. uh really grown to the way it could have been if because it's not our number one priority. If not, it's not even our second priority of anything. Probably not even our third, because we got so many things going on. This is just a habit that we've kind of created. And, and it the question will be, you know, for us to reflect upon will be most likely on anything like this is just a I guess, a talking point would be is to kind of actually evaluate it, why would that mean porn? Like, why would making this a top three priority for both of us would be, why would that be important and what's the purpose? And if we can't find an answer to that, and I think that's why we haven't, it's because we haven't found an answer to that, it's very difficult to move it to the top of the value chain when there's other things that are more valuable to us. And I think that that will be a difficult answer. because we do our own things too as well, it's really hard to of seamlessly kind of put that in there. And I think this becomes harder and harder

Yep. Yep.

trying to shift gears a little bit here, but I think this becomes a little harder and harder as uh our career when we're older and our careers a bit more established. I think this is this would have been a different conversation if we were in our 20s. And because probably wouldn't have that many things going on. And so we would have probably, you know, if this was something that we enjoy doing, we probably would have really focused in on it. Whereas, because we have so many things going on, this is like, you know, it's like a

Hmm.

a nice to have rather than a need. Whereas in our twenties would have been, you know, like when I did the Welland's guys, not that I was in my twenties, I'm in thirties there. It was a different space.

Yeah, you guys, but you guys, but you guys were, it was a huge podcast. It was a huge podcast. had a different space. You had a different objective. You were different and that's

Yeah, and but there was a need to like me getting out. Like it was like, oh, I can see a potential here and I can go all in on this. And even then I didn't go fully all in, but we definitely put a lot of energy and effort into it. And it just changed the game and the momentum was a lot faster at that time. I mean, wasn't as much competition back then, know, in 14 years ago. But that, I think that was, you know, at a different time, you know, a different time, a different phase of our life. But that's what I'm saying. So I think, I don't know if you feel this way, I think I'm gonna ask you this question before, which is, do you find that as you're getting a little older, your discernment on choices of projects you choose to start or continue becomes tougher to integrate because like, because of the timeframe and because there's only so much energy you have to put into anything.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. I remember it was at supermodel Helena Christiansen says, Oh, I might've, I want to, can't remember who it was. I didn't get out of bed for less than $10,000. So that was that saying years ago. And I get that as a concept where, uh, Lawrence, I, yeah, I am very discerning. There's so many, you know, I'll regularly have people come up and say, Hey, you, um, uh, have you thought about doing this? I've heard of this, even when I went to New York recently. You know, um, I, you know, uh, basically grown up in Melbourne. One of my favorite meals is, is is a traditional lambs of lucky. Love them. The one on the spit, no one outside of, you know, a couple of areas uses lamb. all use chicken and pork. And, and so I've gone to, um, New York and I'm talking to my kids and the entrepreneurial part of me and my kids got you, you know, dad, this is that you like this. It's expensive. Whatever you do. And my mind races. And then I'll go.

Hmm. Huh.

No, it's not. It's, you know, like, like, and 20, I would have just gone all in, try it, whatever started it. So it's not so that that short answer to that is it has to meet a lot more criteria and it has to meet a lot. And other than just how you can make some money out of this, uh, there's a, there's a need, all those kinds of things that I filter through them. But at the end of it, I'll go, yeah, but what will that help me achieve? What?

What does it take away? Like that there's the cost, right? There's a cost.

What does it take away? Yeah. What does it take away? What does it take away? Remember? think you might've mentioned it. It would might've been Chris Williamson in his podcast with Steve Bartlett says, you know, for you to pick something up, you're to put something down. And for me to look at this and go, there are projects, there are projects that I'm cultivating right now that I will, I will incorporate and move into, but I've had to let go of some other things. And how do you just jam something further into something for the sake of it? and, and, Lawrence, like I said, we don't know where this will go.

Yes.

But in all the areas that we could have been jamming in, this could have been a very easy thing to take out and we haven't. we've got to ask why, why are we, why haven't we taken this piece out when both of us at any time go, dude, I've got a lot on. Right. Um, and I've been jet lagged. I've been there and I've still showed up when I could have easily gone and you could have easily get, okay, let's do it next week. So it's filling some level of fulfillment and need and, and, and re basically, I don't know.

Yeah.

Just some, some kind of joy that I get out of it. I go, okay, well I'll continue doing that. That that's a different metric that I would have used in my twenties.

Yeah, I got two thoughts and I want to make sure they're not actually random order. But like one is to kind of continue because the flip side of that is also the danger of not starting at all. This is where I that's raw to me at the moment because it's like, yeah, you know, I have all these ideas. I'm very discerning about certain projects I want to do. But it's also to the problem is on the flip side, if you're a listener who's thinking like, yeah, I'm like that, too. But then you actually don't action on any of them. That's actually not helpful either. So this is where I'm sort of at at the moment. So this is like

Yep. Yep.

finding the right balance of like, be discerning, but also like, you got to do start projects and then giving certain timeframes to test it out first. And that's been more true to me is to actually start more projects, but also be really quick to kind of let them go. But I want to continue on the conversation of something that came to me when you said like, why do we do this? There is actually a subtle, a very small um reason why I do this that I don't talk a lot about. And I don't even know if it's worth. it in the future, but it sits in my mind, which is every time we record a podcast and every time we upload a podcast up to the world, it is another recording of my existence. Now, I want to be very clear. I don't care what anybody else in the world thinks of my existence. This is really mainly for my kids and possibly maybe my grandkids to know who I was and what I was thinking. uh and how I was as a person. And this really kind of, you know, uh sat with me for a while. Like the amount of videos I've actually put out in the world, the amount of podcasts I've ever recorded, the amount of seminars and talks that I've ever done and that's been recorded in history, sure, I'm a minor figure, trust me. Like I'm no, I think I'm a very big deal. But the reality is that I'm a big deal to maybe hopefully two people, at least in my life.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

which is my son and daughter. And a part of me feels like, if anything should ever happen to me, or if anything should ever, yeah, if anything should ever happen to me, and my grandkids or my kids want to know who I was and how I was thinking at this age, this is a recording of that moment in time. And not to say that they will actually go looking for it, but if I don't record it, they can't go back to it.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, I mean, how many times did you love to go back to your parents and ask them certain questions? Or I just, I was just thinking about this the other day where Karen and I were just looking back on a life and you know, when we were younger, when we first like, we've been together, we've been married, we're gonna be married 25 years this year, right? So if you think back, I'm 50, I think back when I was 25 or even when I was 21, when I met her, like if you think back at that time, my parents were,

Wow, that's awesome.

right now where I was or where I am at, like in their 40s and 50s. I didn't think that there were 40s and 50s. There was always, like I always felt that they were old, right? And now that I'm that, at the age of where my parents were when I was younger and starting to see that, I'm like, oh, wait a second, man, they probably would have been thinking the same things I was thinking around this time. You worried about, you know, money or job security or whatever, or feeding us or make sure we're doing right, and school. And I'm like, oh, like. You know, I just, but you can't go back to that time. You can, you can ask them, sure, if they're still alive, but the thing thing is they're not going to remember what it was like. And now it's like a snapshot is a little recording of this moment and how I was thinking about life in general.

You know, that's such a profound insight. And, and you're right, you know, when I, when I stop and reflect on that, that that's really helpful, you know, and you mentioned about YouTube, right? So, you know, we've, we've spoken about, um, you know, AI moving forward and where it'll go. And, and we don't, we don't know, there's a huge uncertainty in the like, and you know, juxtaposing that you've also got, you know, there's a lot of. financial changes that are occurring for a lot of people and and and and I don't know what it's like ah Moving forward either in that realm because people quite often ask me, know, like within the split, know, what's going on? You go listen. What I know we just don't know so what I've done is I went back in time I I went back and studied um You know the late 1800s uh going into 1900 led to the First World War with areas of hyperinflation that then led to the roaring twenties, the crash of 29, the great depression leading into world war II. And I've seen cycles. And I read recently a little bit a book called Lords of Finance, which is about the this is going to be boring. But uh there's a reason for this. Lords of Finance, we talked about the the the federal uh governors of the the Fed at four countries in America, France, Germany and England. And what was going on for them? And I've recently just about just finished this book called from Andrew Sorkin called 1929. Right. And Andrew Sorkin unearthed all the letters, the diary entries for these people while they were going through these historical moments in real time. And I find it fascinating to think what was going on through their minds while these things, these massive events were occurring. It's kind of what you've talked about. Right. So we're going through, I believe a huge generational shift in history. And time, and what we're doing is we're timestamping who we were, what we learned, our diaries, our thoughts. don't have to be writing them down. We've recording them. And so these are recorded in posterity. Uh, and, and that to me is something that I didn't realize that we're doing in our, you know, in our own way, we're documenting live what thoughts are going in our minds. And, and as the shifting sands of life are changing as well. um, Made a lot of sense. took everybody on a journey of future back, but that really resonated with you. What you just said.

Yeah, there's so many things, right? It's like you forget, I think oftentimes, like how important though these moments are in our life, like right now, and know, 30 years from now, I'm not, you know, I'm not going to remember this moment, but it's like, and I think back of like some of the old, like I have my, I bought a new iPhone this year and, and, and I have set my, my screensaver to be, it changes like the, the picture every hour. not, it doesn't work perfectly well, but it,

Oh, no.

And I set it to a folder where it's just my favorite photos I kind of clicked on. And unfortunately, sometimes these random photos, I favored it just because I was trying to make a post or something that comes up. I'm like, where the hell is this? Like, is it like a, you you'll be laughing at this. It'd be like some meal, right? You know, some like dish. I'm like, what is that? I have no idea where this from. But like, I remember like right now has a photo of me right now of me presenting. I was like, oh, I remember that. That was in Bali. You know, that was when I was doing, that was three years ago. And there was like, there's a, you know, the picture might come up and it would be.

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Ah cool. Yeah.

Um, when the kids were really young, I'm like, Oh, Oh yeah, that's when we were doing this. And, and what my point is, is that there's always a picture of me, like say, um, maybe 10 years ago and maybe even six years ago. And it's like, Oh my God, my hair was actually all black back then. It's like, it's like really black. And, you just don't, you just forget like that. I, cause I always thought that I had, you know, salt and pepper hair for a long time. But when I looked back at the pictures, like, Oh, wait a second. Wasn't that long ago that.

Yeah. Nah, that kind of snuck up on me there.

I actually had, yeah, yeah, like this, kind of like, whoa, what happened here? This is, I thought that I've had this for a long time. And this is the time difference is like what goes on in our head. Like we think the time is slow and things have gone, you know, it's relatively, you are the same person as you were five years ago. But if you actually look back, you know, maybe 10 years ago, five, 10 years ago, you look back and you're like, oh no, like I've changed a lot. Like I've aged, you know, like, you know, I've aged with, you know, sort of with wisdom, but I have aged. Like I think that.

Hmm. Hmm.

I'm still stronger and fitter now than I was say 10 years ago. But then when I look back, I'm like, oh, I was young. I was really young, you know, I look at some of my universe, or before kids when the kids were babies. And I thought like I was mature and knew a thing. I don't feel any different. Like, honestly, I don't feel any different, right? But when you look back on how young you were when the kids were babies, I was like, oh, I was a little kid. I was like, and it's and that's what I mean. Like you're our perception of time is so warped.

Yeah. Yeah.

And, um, you know, I love to be able to kind of, you know, go back and listen to actually, I probably should like go back and listen to, to my early day podcast of like when the kid, when 14 years ago and, and see, like, listen to some of the things I was actually saying. Um, I'm sure I'll be surprised. I'm like, God, did you really believe that? You know, so.

Yeah. Yeah. But it shows you iteration shows you experience. And that's part of the reason why, like the experience, like what we're talking about now just had to be different to your previous experiences. Cause you're not the same person you are. You're an iterated version of that person who's, uh, as you said, um, probably your mom and dad's age, when you were looking back at them going, Oh, I'm thinking the same things. I'm thinking about, you know, my kids and I hope they're going to go okay. And they're going to work themselves out. Yeah, my, my oldest son turns 30 this year and, um, I would tell you, you know, the 30, their adults, you still, you know, hope it's okay. You know, I hope they'll work it out and they find their own challenges and there's a little bit of a difference when you, uh, when they're adults, because they've got adult problems to work through and you can't just pick them up, put them in another room and sorts the problem. It's a totally different, um, dynamic. oh and I think that that's, you know, it's a beauty of life. It is adapts. And so I'm preparing for the next stage and phase of that as well too. But yeah, just thinking back, I love it. I had thought about it, but never gave it the, the reverence that something like that does. mean, that's the whole purpose of why a journal anyway. And I jot it down, but it's as much, you know, and I'm not planning on anybody releasing these. just my, my vents sometimes. uh

Hmm.

And helps me keep saying, but this is, this is a good metric of, of sort of chronicling who we were during life and during different stages of our world.

Well, if you think how fast AI has changed in the last even six months, I was speaking to someone about probably about a year and a half ago. And he was building this company, I can't remember what the name of the company is, but basically they were building replicas of you, like an avatar. And his first version, I think they pivoted and changed it now, but what he was saying to you is almost like what he was saying to me was that they were trying to uh allow you to basically create the AI version of say, Lawrence, and you would feed it with some data and train it. Now, I'm thinking like, how much data do I actually have? Like, why got thousands of hours of me speaking, thought process, videos, and know, amount of vlogs or blogs I've ever done, you know? You can see that, but basically his concept was you train it. And he said, it doesn't really take that long to train. I'm like, oh really? But you know, I'm thinking like all this data will be trained into this AI. And basically your grandkids or great grandkids one day could actually, will be able to ask you a question. based on your, because of your character, personality, and what your knowledge, you would answer it in a certain way. And I was like,

Yeah.

wow, that's fat. And this is 18 months ago, right? this is AI has advanced a lot in the last 18 months. But I thought that concept was, was really kind of cool and really to kind of think about like, wow, that's really interesting, right? Like how we are going to be able to preserve just as much as we have been able to preserve pictures so much better than we when our parents did because our, parents, my dad just cleaned up his house and you know, had all these photo albums that he had, you know, he's kept. But you think about now it's like all digital, like all the photos are. on this device, you know, where he's still in boxes and you can see the evolution. Now it's not about photos and not just videos. It's like, no memories. And the next phase is already your thought process, you know, at, because they've already can integrate and AI can actually understand like, Oh, this is how Jim thinks, you know, and this is how Jim, you know, moves and activates. And so all this stuff is there. I think that's fascinating.

Yeah. And I can see that. I can see that happening where you're actually getting concepts and ideas of, um, you know, you've got recordings and they just simulate it you ask questions and it draws on all these bits of information for me. remember watching years ago, was a video of Donald Trump and they had gotten, uh, Mariah Carey's, I want for Christmas is you. And, and every word that he'd used, they'd synced it to make sure that You could hear what was the song based on his words. So yeah, I can totally understand that where you ask someone a particular series of questions that prime the AI technology. And then a result of that, then that spits out or answers you in, in, in that your avatar. think it'd be great.

man, the future is gonna be amazing. The future is gonna be scary at the same time and I don't know where it's gonna go. as we reflect back on 100 episodes, like, you can imagine, like say we're on episode 200 right now, can you imagine the world? I think that world is gonna be so different than the current world we live in right now because things are happening so fast. That's how I see it. I don't know about you.

Yep. Yep. Yeah. I agree. I agree. Um, and, and really I think that the whole purpose of reflection is always a good thing is to, it's always keep asking yourself some questions, you know, like w w you know, what's going on? Where am I going? Why am I doing this? Does this fulfill me those kinds of things? And I do reflect, I do reflect and like to take action. And, and this is a, as a reference point is very helpful because it gets me to Lock in a milestone, a really important milestone, you know, something that I'm very happy with and actually uh sort of forces me to ask those questions that we talked about earlier on. like, okay, what, what, what is this fulfilling? And we've been, as you said, very, uh, transparent and open with it. And so we've gone, okay, well, here's where we're at. We work out what we need to do, but I think it's very healthy to constantly keep looking because things are changing. And if you're not doing something you buy effect. You're not to iterate. to me, it's, think the rate of change is happening so quickly that the margins for not doing something are going to be less forgiving as time goes on.

What's your greatest, we talked about the things that frustrate you the most, but what's the greatest thing that you've seen in last 100 episodes or take away for you?

I, there's, there's a lot of, uh, we've had a lot of fun. There's been, there's been some tough moments and, know, you know, bearing my soul when there's been things that have been really tough that I've shared that I've consciously shared. probably wouldn't have done it if it wasn't, if I didn't feel the trust of you holding space for me, holding space for you while, uh, you had some pretty, you know, uncomfortable and sad things to reflect and share and, and owning them and, and knowing that, you know, everything that I've recorded, I, stand by, you know, I, uh, I feel that I've been honest and reflective. And if someone came in and asked me a question about something I could immediately recall it because that's kind of, I've tried to be really transparent, you know, uh, in terms of who I am and authentic in that regard. So. I'm proud of what we've done. I've had a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed the process and I feel I've grown through the process as well. You know, both as a person, obviously as a, as part of a podcast duo, but just as a person predominantly. What about you? What about you?

Yeah, excellent. That's Oh man. Like I think, you know, having you by my side to be able to just voice out certain thoughts that come to my mind. Um, you're, know, like, and so most people don't know behind the scenes is Jim usually is the one who comes up with the topic for the week. Uh, and that's what he's really good at. And, and it's been great that he's kind of taking the lead for majority of the time. Uh, and you know, he just kind of comes up with it on the day usually, it's like, or maybe five minutes before, or today was just like literally one 30 seconds before we used to press record. And it's just, what I love about that is that, you know, I think is that it allows the show and how we wanted the show to show up to be, which is we just show up authentically to what's on our mind at that given moment, rather than being scripted to have a perfect answer. And so what people who,

Yeah, yeah.

So the reason I'm saying that is because like when you sort of say, we're to talk, what do you think about this topic of this? And then I just usually say, I would say 95 % of time I just go, yeah, I usually go, yep. Sounds good. Record. Yeah.

You hit record, you hit record, you hit record. And if I've, if I've thought about something more than that's part of the reason why, like if I've thought of something for more than a lot longer, uh, and like, because I sometimes I get a theme, I I'm sitting with it and I go, really get it. But if I think about it too much at the 11th hour, I'll Hey, what do think about this? go, that's good. I was thinking this, I'll go, actually that's a better topic. I just throw it away. Anyway, I throw away what I was thinking about anyway. So I realized both you and I.

Yeah.

adapt very well in the moment. And so, you know, it doesn't complicate it. That's why it has been easier. That's why it's been fun because there are not huge time constraints and expectations. We get up, dress up and shop when we're on. And when we're on, we both have an ability to be able to go, let's go. Uh, so I trust you for that. I trust you to be able to hold that. And yeah, but I just, I just wanted to say, when I, when I say Jim comes up with the topic, Don't be under illusion. I'm staying, I'm, I'm sleepless nights coming up with topics. That's not that at all. I'm not chanting to be nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. And nothing is, uh, you, you, you won't except for the colors you got. Hey, let me just check that everything else is just going live. It's, it's like the Saturday night live show. Uh, but, but basically on a Tuesday afternoon at one.

Were you not chat-chip-y-teeing this? Well, I think that's one of the takeaways then for me. It's just like our ability to be to do that. And I think like I'm proud of myself and I guess awesome to watch you do the same, which is like we show up, we are able to talk about almost anything on any particular topic for 50 minutes or so on anything, is, know, exactly, we're not worth it, but just our opinions, our thoughts and have a thought and opinion around something.

Not as world authorities, by the way, we're not, not world authority. Yeah.

and still be somewhat, ah hopefully, fingers crossed, educational. And I feel like that's important is because it's that ability to be able to, so my takeaway is the ability to think on my feet, the ability to still have um certain thoughts that are related to my life. I think that's important to me, that's a takeaway for me, simply because I think that's a skill that I'm always trying to finally. define tune it in a way in an intentional way, but without being forced, right? So it's like, it's like learning a language and force and just kind of fumble through it. And because you have to, to do it. And this is where the podcast is almost like a forcing mechanism for me to just show up, record, talk about something that I don't necessarily have any, most of the things I talk about has no authority over, but at least I have some sort of ability to continue a conversation for about 15 minutes on something. I think that that is a skill that I'm constantly refining and constantly do. And I feel like that's an important skill moving forward in the AI world because it allows you to have at least some original thinking and some original thoughts moving forward.

Yeah, I'm done Lawrence. I'm complete. Thank you very much for the last hundred episodes. No, no, I'm done as in today, today, today. No, I'm not going to drop a bomb like you like that. At least I'll give you the courtesy of giving you a minute before we record. I'd definitely give you that courtesy, but no, man, I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. And thank you everybody who's stuck with us for many episodes throughout this hundred episode journey so far.

Are you mean you're done like this is the last episode or you're done for this episode? oh Oh Well, this has been a great 100 episode and a great 100 episodes leading up to this point. So if you don't hear from us again, you know what happened. But if you do hear from us from the next episode, you know that we're still continuing this imperfect life and journey. I'll see you on the next episode. Maybe. Take care.

You uh