Finding the Pause Button

Welcome to the Wabi Sabi podcast. This is the art of imperfection. And Jim has just come back from an amazing week. I've heard some great things. I've seen some videos. Jim, tell us about your retreat. And I love to kind of dive back into this retreat and then leading into the conversation we're going to have today, especially as we are in the middle of summer here.

For sure. Well, Lawrence, seven days ago I was in Spain or six days ago I was in Spain and I wasn't wearing a jumper. I could tell you that for free. it was, I did, I did, I did. I put some sunscreen on the Bontz and got out into the beach and swam and did all these wonderful things. I'm looking at myself and go, oh, actually there's a little bit more color. Yeah.

Were your skin okay? Did you put sunscreen on over your head just to make sure? You got, this is most color I've seen in you in over six months.

Yeah, pretty much. So, um, it will happen when you're in there day in, day out. So, uh, we had a great retreat. had, uh, you know, three and half days of an immersive program. And then afterwards we had, uh, five days, six days, but then I, uh, on the beach as well after that. So it was a perfect way for us to reconnect and go back into the real world, uh, by decompressing for a little while and, and, uh, resting up and catching up. It's amazing how much I slept and I. eight and I did all these wonderful things that you do when you're on holiday and recharging.

What was the best part of your your break? Like, what was it? Was it I know that food isn't going to be the one of the top thing. But what was the best part of it? Other than that, that for your for the break, like, what did you take away from

I think I went totally off grid as well. I, so much of my world now is very connected, even more than it ever used to be. And so for me to be able to put the phone down, not check emails, have auto responders, oh have pre-scheduled everything in advance. So there wasn't very much I had to do at all. That was the best. It was just having a period of time where I could just

Mm.

get up and not have to be anywhere in a particular time or didn't have to start something with the objective that something had to finish by a certain time. So I think it's that freedom. know, I've always had, I really enjoy freedom. know freedom features very highly for you as well, but I've got freedom in a different form now and it's more geographic. It's uh more freedom in there, but there are still occasionally some time um restrictions and, and

Hmm.

Uh, because there are different appointment times, you know, you've got coaching calls, you were consulting, um, that happened at a specific time. I am sort of controlled a little bit by time, which is one of the final elements of freedom that I'd love to free up a bit, but, um, that was it was really just the freedom of, uh, choice of, of, of time, basically.

Hmm, that's interesting. so why do you like why do we if we crave freedom so much, and this is like my including myself in this, right? um You know, why do we put ourselves in positions that we on a daily date day to day basis? Why don't we carve out like even on a week basis to have the freedom that we have in a week? I don't know. Like, I'm just curious how what you know, how do you answer that?

Yep. Yeah, it's a great question. Great question. uh There's an exercise and there's elements of simplification that we really focus on uh during our retreat. talk about a lot of the times where people, by extension of just stuff we accumulate, you know, if you're in a house for a long time and then you move, you realize how much clutter it is. And then you move 12 months later and then you go through that same process. And so how is this possible? I've only been here for 12 months. We kind of incorporate, we take things on and to a degree we do that in a house, but also do that with our time. So there's some things that you generally take on that you don't even realize is creeping in. So we go through an exercise specifically where we kind of do an audit where we have to take almost everything out of the circle and be very intentional in what comes back in. And sometimes things just creep in. Sometimes we allow them to get in there and before you know it, you're. Your circle is full and you don't even know how it got there. So even though I have an intention and an awareness around simplification, just sometimes over time, things just creep in. So this is an exercise that I do at least once or twice a year where I physically have to almost take everything out of the circle, simplify, then intentionally bring things back. And that's how I do it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Creep is terrible. Isn't it like creep is it's so, I think we all are guilty of the creep and creep is like, just things are just creeps back into your life. And I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday and you know, they did, you know, her, um, his, wife actually, you know, has done some real amazing breakthroughs through, you know, Phil McConaughey's work and Bracell and you know, all that stuff. you know, And we're just talking about how amazing it was to break free from some of those entanglements that she had in her life. And, know, she was so freeing and she, you know, it just created, you know, created a great life for her. then, you know, but certain issues have just come up recently and it's like, wow, it's really, I see like what, you know, we've all agreed. It's just like, oh, that was just creep. Like it just creeped back in. wasn't enough that the freeing of the entanglement wasn't total free. And it's just basically, sure, you cut it away, but it was still there. And, and so therefore just kind of crept back in. think sometimes like when we look at self-development and personal development, oftentimes that that's exactly what happens. We feel like we transformed, like we go to an event or we feel like, I've done the work and everything should be perfectly fine. And we forget that sometimes if the trauma, we'll call it trauma, uh, is so deep that it doesn't go away. Okay, if anything, it just you you basically able to resolve it at one level. But if you don't intentionally kind of work at it, or at least be aware of it, it could easily grow back to what it was. Maybe it doesn't hold you as tightly as it was, but it's still kind of slowly like a weed wrapping around a tree, it just starts to kind of, you know, find its way back there, right. And, and I call this like the Dragon Slayer, you know, I you know, because I feel like every day you have to, you know, be the dragon's layer to kind of pull out your sword and, and kill the dragon every single day. Cause the dragon always creeps up. And I feel like this is one of those things that we, I mean, I'm very guilty of this. did the sort of something similar. was in Paris for a week and tried. Yeah. I didn't do any work when I was away. I just really, there's only one webinar. think I had to go on, but other than that, I was just like, just, just being with my family, just walked a lot and just. you know, trying to unload some of the things and even, I even use AI for this. And I'm like, okay, based on what you know about me, like what projects, cause I had, actually I did this two days ago. I had so many projects going on in my head and ideas and actually had go, I don't, I could sit down. I was going to, Oh, you know what? I'm going to sit down and write all the projects actually have like all the plates I'm spinning. I go, you know what? I'm going to just, cause I use chat almost every day. So I just go, you know what, based on what you know about me, what are all the projects?

Hmm. Yep.

am I actually working on right now? And it just like listed and just kept on going, going. And there was at least 15 things. Like I'm not these like 15 different areas. I'm like, oh, oh, that's, that's why I feel this way right now. Right. So your, your, your, your, your, your process of what you said you were doing, just like unloading everything was me two days ago when I just listed everything on that. I'm like, oh, okay. I can see why what's going on here. And, um, and I went.

Hmm. Oh. Yeah. Yep.

you know, a different layer. I'm like, okay, we got to consolidate. And one of the things I actually, there's a great prompt that I use, and I think it's too long for me to kind of talk about it here, but it was on the lines of like, based on everything you know about me, based on our conversation, you know, this is through using AI, because I use whatever platform you use, you can use it for whatever AI, LLMG you're going to use. And you, send you the prompt, Jim, and maybe we'll put it in the description, but it's, it was a great prompt in a way that it forced

Hmm.

the AI to go based on what you know about me and how I make my decisions or how I look at things and what do you think if you were an expert psychologist? uh How would you analyze me? But give me the truth, don't sugarcoat it, give me the truth, what are my strengths, what are my weaknesses, what are my shadows? And oh my God, I gotta tell you, I was like, holy crap. First it's kinda scary because this AI knows me better than I do.

Yeah.

But everything it wrote, I'm like, oh yeah, those are like, those are my deep dark shadows that I don't want anybody to know. And it was freaking scary, right? It was scary that it was like, and I'll give you one, just to be totally transparent and vulnerable. Like one of the things that came up for me um was my, the reason why I do the things I do is because there's a part of me that does not like the fact that I'm irrelevant.

Mmm. Yeah.

or I'm scared of being irrelevant, that I made impact on, you know, that this life is wasted. And I was like, wow, like that's not like superficial stuff. This is pretty deep, right? And this based on analysis of all the conversations I had, you know, over the year or whatever, however long I've used chat. And I was like, wow, that's actually really true. You know, there is a deep fear in that for me, you know, that motivates me to do certain things is because there's that fear of like, I'm not enough or I'm not...

Hmm.

I'm wasting my time. And so sometimes I just keep busy and busy and doing things just or try to do new things because I'm so scared that I become irrelevant, that that didn't matter.

You know, two things I was going to say, Lawrence, and thank you for sharing that because to a degree I'll own that that's, you know, that's a driving force for me too, where it's like, okay, so I want to make an impact. don't want to waste my time. don't, I want, I want to make sure that, you know, my time mattered, you know, at least I, you know, I planted a tree, I had a, had a family, that kind of thing. So they're really important. That, that, that speaks to me as well. Um, what I mentioned years ago. that you know the work of um David, oh David, forgotten his surname now, wrote about power versus force, David Hawkins, Well and he talked about the Graves chart, the energetic chart when he talks about the frequencies and energies of different emotions and when you've got to love, it's a higher evolving energy. When you get to the lower levels, you know, um

Power first, yep, yep, yep.

Anger, guilt, shame. They used to think that shame was the lowest level of frequency, but they found another one, which, uh, one of the coaches that I, that I got my accreditation through, helped me understand it was called untransmuted grandiosity, which is the failure. Yeah. I want to break it up. It's called untransmuted grandiosity, which is basically the failure to live up to your potential.

Oh, slow down there. Slow down there, buddy. That's that's just trending. When they just, can they find a better word? Because like that was way above my pay grade in terms of understanding English language.

Yeah, but man, I'm just a humble messenger. I'm just a humble messenger. but, but it talks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, but it's always stayed with me because that's what I could hear from you, what you were saying. And it's the, you know, it's like, Hey, I've been given these opportunities, talents.

Well done for remembering it and also saying it. I guess I'm glad I didn't have to say that.

Do I make a difference? I living like all those conversations that they circulate in my head as well too. And I, know, and I get, that's what I could hear from you in there as well. So we can definitely talk about that. I want to open that up in a second, but before you say that, because I forget before I forget, because I had a feeling I was going to forget this one. Um, and then I'll bring it back to you. Sorry to cut you off. When you talk about, um, AI, I'm not sure if you saw it was about three days ago, Sam Altman.

Well, it's a source of inspiration. Yeah.

talked about that when you guys, when you use AI for, um, for guidance, for, for your life coach and what it gets to know a lot about you, but there'll be a time and place where privacy issues will have become an issue and that can actually be used against you. So, so that was the, that was the thing that I went, you know, can I've used it too? You know, obviously I go, listen, same thing based on what you know about me. What do reckon hearing here? And it's this.

Hmm, yeah.

privacy um settings that he, he alerted me to that when you think about it, it makes so much sense ah that we just need to be aware of. sorry about that. oh I was worried I was going to forget about it. Floor's yours.

Yeah, I'm going to have come back to the privacy thing because it has a totally different beast in topic. But yeah, no, think that source of the feeling of, you know, wasting life and time, I think we're not the only ones, I'm sure. And a lot of people are driven by that. And it's like, oftentimes, though, it's like it as an inspiration to go serve and it serves as an inspiration to kind of to help others. But at the same time, it could be a very big Achilles heel. And that's what I'm just realizing is that it's like, becomes a really big Achilles heel because it's never enough, right? Because no matter if you, you know, you could have done X, Y, Z in your life, you're still going to feel like there's more and there's more and you can push and push, right? It's almost like a workout. like, you know, when, when, when it's actual fatigue, right? And there's, know, David Goggins, was talking about, I think it was a 4%. There's always 4 % more, right? And maybe that's true. but at what detriment. And that's the other side, right? And I think the two truths that we talk a lot about is just like the ability to push and the ability to do more than you think you're capable of doing, right? And then also recognizing that the truth is, is also too, you need to find peace and be present in stillness, right? Those two truths resonate really well with people. And depending on where you are in your life, you will hear one. resonate more than the other. Right. And I think that, but they're both correct. They in it's, think in itself alone, like that one comment isn't enough because you need the contrast with the other. And this is where sometimes that balancing is so important, right. And this is the, where we kind of flirt the lines of imperfection, right. I think it's a, is that constant kind of flow of recognizing like, where are we at? And is this important? And that oh for me that going through that process of just recognizing some of the shadows that I had. I'm like, yeah, this is a big awareness. Like, so number one is for me is awareness is key. Without awareness, you don't know what to fix and you just continue doing everything forward. And so what I realized I had to do is go, okay, well, that's great to know this, but what can I do about it? Right? And what can I do about it? So I actually asked, uh you know, chat to actually come up with like some solutions. for me for like, what can I do daily and weekly to ensure that I, you know, get myself out of this, you know, out of, you know, the shadows and, they made some like, you know, a bunch of recommendations, which was awesome, which is like, you know, one was just to recognize, you know, there's like many things, right? Sometimes it's like, here's some mantras that you need to kind of embrace every day. You know, you need to reinforce that with some cold showers or you need to, uh, you know, mind yourself, like, what are you building today?

Yep.

you know, what are you shipping today? Like that's the thing. Shipping was a big thing. Like I have all these great ideas, but I, I don't, if I don't ship them, like, you know, this about me, like if I don't ship them, um, it just becomes in my head and just like shipping meetings, like it's actually produced and put it out in the world. And so there's all these things. And so, you know, asking that question, like, what are you shipping today? What are you building today? So just reminding them like, a builder, I'm a creator and reminding myself that everything already done in my life is, is enough.

Yep. Yep.

You know, and everything else is a bonus. Like, so just like these thoughts around it's like super simple stuff. Right. And, um, and then so what I did, I took it to the next step. actually created, um, I built a whole entire website just for myself, uh, uh, using AI and, and, and coded it up and I, it has a morning and an afternoon question at morning and evening questions. And then I'm going to like, I'm going to see it. I've only done it for like two or three days. Um, only did this two days ago. So I just created it. And then now it's like every day, it's like a journal.

Yep.

Like that's short-term and all like, here's, here's what I'm going to do. Here's what I'm building his one. And then every day, and then I want it, I to, I want it to analyze me at the end of the week. And did I stay on purpose? And I did it was just, it's just a fun little project that I'm doing for myself to kind of, to, to kind of just get myself out of this uh rut. And the main outcome of this actually for me was this one thing, one common theme that came up was one mountain and one mountain is focus on one mountain.

Hmm.

Stop trying to climb three different mountains. And it's so hard. it's like, and one of the questions I have uh on the, on the evening is like, what did you kill today? Right. And so what killing is like, what project did you kill off today? Right. And that, that's the question. I'm like, Oh, that is so hard. And even psychoanalyze because the reason why it's so hard is because you always think.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Yeah, but what if, right? One of their projects is the one that takes off. And that's why I'm running like 15 different projects on because one of those could hit. it's, it's so fascinating, right? To, to have like the human psychology, someone analyzing myself, like me analyzing myself, I guess, and then analyze myself and then figuring out like, okay, how do we work around this and how do we move this, move past this? But yeah, there's all this crazy things that's going on. And I think it's fascinating to actually see what

Hmm.

where AI is going to take us and help people through, you know, um their journeys, if you allow it to.

Yeah, you're documenting a capture system basically, you know, that, that works well for you. And I, I started probably, I'm not sure if I mentioned to you, but I'm a notorious journaler. And for the last period of time, I've been journaling, um, using chat as well, because I felt that I was, still do like gratitude. I do, I do jot that one down because it connects me to it. But I found I was dissociated in the journaling.

Yeah. Nice. Mm-hmm.

And I was looping. I found that I could actually, I just got into heart space. I've got really, really connected and just spoke and I've been documenting and it's, it's amazing what has, has been the case. And so I've journaled, I've done a similar thing where I've journaled and I've got the transcripts of it and I've recorded it. And then after a period of time, went, okay, so what are the themes? What are the recurring themes? What are in my blind spot? What am I not seeing? What, what can you identify? And I think what I take out of the both of this Lawrence is that, when I first did my coaching, I was always told that the best, you know, the most important coaching you'll ever do is on yourself. And when you can do that. So in our own ways, what we're doing is we're testing our own product. We're putting ourselves through the filter and not having an expectation of somebody that we're not prepared. to go through ourselves. And so I think that's what we did, you know, with our retreat in the lead up to it. I think that's part of the reason why we need five or six days after a retreat is we've taken ourselves through the process. And you know, that after you've had a group of people go through, it's a, it can be a hugely transformative process. That's, know, you're rearranging how you look at life and, perspectives and it can get pretty tiring and exhausting. And so we've done that for ourselves first. You know, we want to try and clear our own stuff first so that when we can be of service in a different state. And by the end of that, that's why you get really, really tired. But when you're constantly reevaluating things, I don't know, gives me, I'm sure it'd be the case for you too, or at least I expect it would be that it gives you street cred with the people you work with when they can see that you're doing your own work.

Yeah, absolutely. And the main thing is like, you know, the retreats itself is like, you know, the reason why I'm sure you do the retreats, I do the retreats is, is that when you take people away from their normal human, normal daily interactions, like I, when I run my retreats, I always run into a place that no one, none of my clients currently live in. Right. Because it's important. Like if I, because what's going to end up happening is we do it in a location where, you know, let's say I do it in Edinburgh, you know, where you are at the moment, guarantee you, you're to like, find an excuse and like, am I paying for a hotel in, you know, Edinburgh? Like, why don't I just, I'll just show, I'll just go home, it'll be fine. You know, I'll just sleep in my own bed and everything else. But that's not the point. Like the point is that I need you to get you out of your normal rhythm because you talked about creep, right? Because the creep is like these vines that tie you down to certain way of thinking, the way you, know, that that's what causes you to be the same. And until you remove yourself from the environment, you're not going to realize and see the perspective that

to be. Yep.

Oh my God, I didn't even realize how, you know, how tied down I was or how, how much stuff I was actually doing. And, and until you tear, put yourself away into some different location where you actually can relax and you, feel like, I'm sure you feel this way too. But when you go on holiday, the first couple of days is really hard to adapt. Right. Sometimes it takes a week and because it's like, you're so wound up. I'm like, I need to know this and I need to know this. need to know this. And it takes a while before you learn to let go.

Hmm.

And then it was like, oh my God, that's the most freeing thing in the world. And all of a sudden, like when you come back though, guess right, day one, you just go right back into it. Cause you go back into the routine. Because we're just habit, you know, people, we're human beings, we're just habit driven. And there's nothing wrong with that. It just means that we just need to reevaluate. And it's gotta be intentional about changing those habits. And that's difficult to do. you know, because your habits usually revolve not around you, but also revolve around people around you. you, especially if you have a family or if you have a partner that you live with, like you might have changed, but you go back to the environment where they haven't changed. And guess what? You're going to get swallowed up back into their circles and back into their life. And I've done that, you know, so many times and it's really hard, right? Because you feel like, I have to learn all this stuff. And you know, I've changed and, you got to reintegrate back into

Hmm.

Um, to your old life and, try to change that and they're having gone through that process. It's very, it's very, very difficult. And I think, um, and that's the challenge. That's the thing that we're constantly fighting against, right? We've got, we're constantly fighting against our own identity or old identity. We're constantly fighting against, um, other people's expectation of us, of that old identity. And it's very difficult to shift that narrative over time. You gotta, but it's gotta be conscious. It's gotta be intentional and it's gotta be slow.

That's hot.

in a sense that it's got to be, you that you got to be willing to keep, keep at it to know that at the ultimately at the end, uh you you're moving in the direction that you actually wanted to. Again, all of that very difficult.

Yep. Yeah. And you mentioned right at this, uh, from the get go about, know, why do we, why do we do that? Why, what's the attraction for complexity? And I think, you know, I've been thinking about it since you asked that question and what's come up for me in that is Sometimes there's, there's validation. There's, validation in busyness. Sometimes it's, you don't want to look at what's there. And so consequently you fill it up with something that distracts you of your time. And interesting, you know, when we first, when we moved to Spain, like it's three years ago now, um, uh, it's over, you know, it's, it's, it's insane and you longer to Portugal. I remember this period of time was, uh, about now at the honeymoon period, I had a month that was really cool. But after that, I went through a period where I'd simplified so much. I've taken so much out of the circle that what was left. I was like, okay, well, this is cool. I was, I was doing my work and was coaching those kinds of things, but had a lot more time. And I realized how much time I was using to numb certain things that the, addiction to being busy. And I remember, you know, talking to you about that.

Hmm.

at that time and just had, I had to actually go through a recalibration or a detox almost to my, to my system to just go, dude, it doesn't have to be that intense where I simplified it. And then I was filling it up with low priority stuff. And so then I had to just do another detox again, where it was like, okay, whatever comes back, you know, I do as a, I, the way that I found I work best is I need to have something that I'm working towards. And I work well when I've got structure and order in my world, you know, like, you know, certain times like training has to be at this time. This has to be at this time, those kinds of things that that kind of thing works really well, because if it's so open ended, I just go, yeah, I can do it, but I'll get to it eventually. And then I'm getting to it, but not in, you know, so that's not, I'll get it done, but not at not high performance, but I was realizing I was just wasting time because I, I created so, so great efficiencies. Hey, hear of people go, Hey, you can get into freedom and then you can actually start trading. That's the trap for a lot of people. Um, you can start stock trading from home and you can do it, you know, in your underwear. And it's like, well, there's gotta be more to life than that. You know, like, so that to me, so I've freed up a whole lot of time to get to that point to realize I'm actually not really enjoying this. I was actually enjoying that more. So I've had to go through several.

Hmm.

iterations of this where it's like exiting, refilling it, exiting, refilling. Okay. What comes back now? I actually really want as opposed to just filling it up just because I had nothing better to do.

Yeah, it's, it's distraction is a huge word there, right? Because it's, it's con I think I'm trying to distract myself every day, you know, and I distract myself actually with learning. So like I'm interested in a lot of topics. And so then for like, if you look at my YouTube channels, you know, if I go like there'd be, you know, a mixture of like different things in the algorithm feeds me. And it's like, what's really dangerous. And I recognize this, um, is that.

Hmm. Mm-hmm.

You know how Netflix, you know, the introduction of Netflix is like, there's never, I don't know if we talked about this in the last podcast, but I think we might have where Netflix or just all these, you know, channels available now is way worse than what we used to have, right? Because it used to have, we just used to flick through channels when I was a kid. And you know, when I was a teenager, I just flicked through like 34 channels all the way up and down. And then when you go through like two rotations, you realize, oh, nothing's on. But then guess what? The next half an hour shows up. So therefore, like you just watch whatever, it was like, oh, maybe I'll go through that again.

Yep.

Now, nowadays it's like you have infinite amount of titles and it's amazing how we can go through, we can go to a blockbuster in the past and go, wow, there's nothing else to watch. You're gonna have to find a movie? Well, we're like that now in our TV. It's like, oh man, there's no good movies on. There's like literally thousands of titles you can choose from, but you can't choose one. And so you could literally watch all of Netflix, show after show and movie after movie, probably till the day you die without doing a single thing, right? and you'll still have more. And what I'm saying to you is like, well, YouTube is even just like that, right? And from the learning perspective, there's so much stuff that I want to learn or whether it be around crypto or it could be the Niners are playing again or it's like health and longevity. And then there's like, like whatever you're interested in. And all of a sudden you just go down these rabbit holes and, the algorithm is like teaching you to like, but there's this and you're like, oh yeah, I can just watch that. Oh yeah, I'm going to watch that.

It's just it's the dope it and they're basically wired the whole dopamine hit constantly because they're just giving you stuff that's really good and It's funny because I was actually Must have been a few that's been while we're on break. I got onto my channel. I these are all crack a movie These are brilliant aren't they but then he goes you do know you're you've been the algorithm is sort of these for you based on I went of course I know that but

Yes.

I just like to believe that these are cracker movies. He goes, yeah, but if you get on mine, they're going to be more rom-coms. You also like crash and burn and people killing themselves and that kind of stuff. Batman, all those kinds of things. and so, yeah, you know, like, so it's, it's just, it's optimized for what you're learning and that's, you know, the psychology, there's a lot of money invested in keeping you engaged.

Yeah. action in thrilling. m

And consequently, they've just gone, if you, if they're giving you more of what you want, your natural curiosity will just, will never be never. It's insatiable.

Yeah. Well, and that's part of the pause, right? So the, the, the, point of the today's podcast, I think a lot of the underlying theme is like the, need for a pause. And I recognize this, that how much my dopamine was addicted to learning. Cause that's one of my highest values, right? To learn more stuff. And so therefore, you know, in my, logical brain justifies that learning. Cause it's like, I'm learning, so it's okay. But then there's a part I realized I'm like, I'm just creating a lot of noise.

Yeah.

And I'm not actually taking action to complete some of these projects and not moving forward. I'm not shipping. Right. And therefore, like, it's just like, I'm actually doing myself this service to myself and the people around me are the people I'm trying to impact because simply because I'm more interested in learning about the next thing versus about maybe I should actually learn what I learned from the last thing or the thing before that and actually implement it rather than just trying to stack on top of that. Right.

Yeah.

And you know, I tell my clients all the time, like stop waiting for perfection. Well, guess what? Like I do it all the time too. Right. Then this is the whole journey about the imperfection part. It's like, it's never perfect. And it's these recognized, you know, being aware that the noise is actually, you know, I'm, really fundamentally realizing that now the noise is distracting me and it's causing me to actually feel overwhelmed and not at peace because I'm just filling time. I'm filling the gaps, I'm filling the silence. And the worst part about all of that is that I'm not actually listening to my own voice because the noise is so noisy. I'm listening to everybody else's voice. I'm actually forgetting about what I sound like. What do I really want? And I think the pause of, you your retreats and it does exactly that, right? You pull people away from their jobs. You pull people away from their work and their business and their family. And it allows them to actually, and you ask them certain questions, and it's like the first time they've ever had to like force themselves to answer this question without distracting them with another Instagram post or video, right? And that's hard because now the truth starts coming out and you start realizing like, I have no idea what I want, right? I have no idea, you know, if I like this or not, because you've been so influenced by everybody else's algorithm or desires and what they tell you to want.

Yep.

you've forgotten your own. And so therefore you go through this whole deep rabbit hole of like unraveling, right? The truth from yourself, which takes time to going, what are you about and what are we really after? And I think that's the value of the pause.

Yeah. You're right. Because for me, I took about four books with me, you know, like I've got five days off, four books, you know, like, but, but yeah, I'll get through a bit, you know, one or two a week. Uh, I usually get through, but, um, I was just overly ambitious in the end. Uh, hardly read at all. I just slept and spent time on the beach and walked and ate basically. So

What do you read a book a day?

Um, that was, that was, that was big for me too. So, you know, like it's massive, massive.

That's a huge thing. I mean, I used to do that too, right? I used to take like a book and I'm like, and you know me, I'm not even a reader. I'm like, why am I taking this book? It's like literally just a waste of space in my backpack. Because there's a part of you that goes, but this time though, I am going to read. No, you're not.

A token, yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Cause that's what happened when I went away. It was like, took all my journals. I took all my books. I had to negotiate my way out of not paying excess baggage at the airport only to not use any of them when I, when I was away. Yeah. Yeah, I did. was just going, cause I could be, cause I could be inspired by this. It could be that it could be that I don't know exactly what it is. So that's it. That's the equivalent of, of, um, me, you know, doing what you're saying about.

That is pretty hilarious that you took four books for five days. That is absolutely funny. That's hilarious. Yes, yeah.

going in and, um, you know, basically all the YouTube videos. So that's the equivalent for me doing that. But also I've got a whole lot of YouTube categories as well too. And sometimes they're the, Oh yeah, I'll come back to that one. Never do, never do. You know, so I think you're right. There's something there's, there's wisdom in, um, the discipline pursuit of doing less and doing being more intentional and actually taking action. So I remember. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. But that's the harder, that's the harder path. It's the harder path than just consume, consume.

Because there's a, there's a numbing, there's a, there's a false sense that I'm actually progressing here when you're consuming and you're thinking I'm doing, I'm doing when you're actually really just numbing yourself from taking action. Cause it's more passive. It's like, I'll just sit here and entertain me. You know, you're like the emperor is like, clap your hands and entertain me as opposed to actually getting in there and rolling your sleeves up and doing something.

Yes. what's so different than a summoner junkie, summoner junkies, right? We all know that like, you know, we've all met some people who just, they're at every seminar, they're always there. And you know, when you finally talk to them after a couple years, like, so how you know, how's business or whatever, they're exactly in the same spot as they ever were, right? And it's like, wait, and trust me, I'm putting my hand up for this too, right? It's like for all that effort, all those years, and, you know, even with that fear of like wasting it, you know, you're still in the same spot, right? And

Mm. for all that effort.

And I'm very guilty of that pains me to no end, right to know that I'm in the same position in certain areas that I was, you know, two years ago, or three years ago, whatever. And I've learned all this stuff, but I hadn't taken action on any of them to move me forward. And like, that's a painful realization. And that's the regret. And there's even though with the grit, I still didn't take the action. And that's even double the worse, right? So it's like this, like a double whammy. that's again,

Hmm. Yeah. Well, you feel bad, but you're not going to change it. Nothing's going to change. So yeah.

So something has to happen and it has to be like a shake up. so there, I think, I don't know, it's, it's a, I'm not putting the guilt on anybody because I'm really voicing like my own problems in myself, right? This is the, the challenge. And it's like to recognize that you, we all have to get to that point of going, okay, well, what are you going to do about it now? You know, and what change are you going to make or just drop it completely and just stop worrying about it, right? And just be happy with where you're at. in X, whatever, or it could be your workout routine or your level of your skillset in a certain sport or whatever it is. It doesn't have to be a business, but it is like, what are you going to change? And are you willing to put in the effort? Because it's sacrifice there.

Yeah. Cause it takes a lot of bandwidth to perpetuate, uh, you know, a drive and always feel like, okay, I'm always playing catch up, or I'm always trying to catch up for the next thing. Whereas you're right. There's something to be said about contentment. Maybe there's, and when you study the people from the blue zones, you know, they live way over a hundred. There's a level of contentment, you know, that they have, which is fascinating that they engage socially. They keep active. They still have a. A purpose, they do something productive. Um, but they found this sustainable way of looking after themselves. It doesn't drive them to distraction, you know, and they, there's meaning in what they do. There's meaning in the connections that they have. There's meaning in the, the food they prepare. And, know, one, one of the guys actually, just see one of the guys who came to a retreat was telling us about an extended family where years ago they bought a parcel of land and this family get together. Um, several times a year, but they're now like, there were, would have been three or four brothers who bought this parcel of land and now it's passed down to, you know, multiple great, great grandkids, that kind of thing. And so there's a hundred people that turn up and they've got this roster system and they all, know, like a hundred people get together, you know, a couple of times a year and they, you know, they've got a roster for eating people cook and people get firewood and whatever. And they had this sense of community, but they're all engaged in people's lives and worlds. And they have a, an agreement. It's like, okay, we, we check out and we just get really connected here. And I thought to myself, how phenomenal is that? But that takes effort. That takes intentionality that, that you, it's a little bit like, you know, to eat well, you have to make it. It's harder to eat well than it actually is to eat what everybody else eats junk food. Right? So if you just go on the default, you get taken upon other people's simplicity, whereas If you're going to live a life of intention, you've got to intentionally put your focus in time, energy, effort that you want to, as opposed to just be taken up by what else is in front of you, because you'll get distracted and you'll take away from what you really want to do.

Yeah, I'm starting to think about like what how important it might be to actually have like a check in, right? Like, because if you think about this as like, I'll use the food as an example, right? So I was in five days or six days in Paris and I didn't take any gym clothes with me. And I've learned to like not stress over my workouts when I'm away. I used to like always bring my workouts and try to figure out, I know it's like you and your books. It's like, I bring my pair of shoes and bring my workout gears and let's face it, I'll work out, but like the workout is

Mm-hmm.

like maybe 30 % of what I would normally do in, in, in a gym. And, and it's like just going through the motions. Well, at least it's, you know, something I've learned to actually, because now that, know, we only do carry ons here in Europe and it's like, learned to going, you know, that's just precious space that I probably should just like, just let go of my only going away for four or five days. And maybe those shoes, like the work one workout that I'm actually going to do is probably not worth the space that it's taking up. And so I've just learned to let that go. And you know, when you go on holidays, you know, you

Yep. Yep. Yep.

not so much, for me, it's like, tend to eat a lot more, you know, a lot more naughty. Yeah. Yeah. You know, not, not, you know, naughty foods and, know, especially when you're in Paris, there's a lot of bakeries and a lot of croissants and a lot of like, you know, rich foods. And, and, know, for that week, you know, you feel kind of bloated. You feel kind of like, you know, you know, you just a bit, you know, whatever, like you just feel like you're, you're a bit full from all that junk stuff, but you also know in the back of your mind, like,

No, no, I'll give it a nudge. Don't worry about that. Yeah. Yep.

I'm living a little and this week I'm okay because I know next week I'm just going to go through like, uh you know, so much about detox and get back to some veggies and, and, and go back to my workouts and I'm going to be okay. And that's what I mean. Like for us, like if you use that as an example, like one week is going to be okay. Right. It's not the end of the world. Um, as long as you know, to intentionally go back to some healthier habits. And I think that's the same thing when it comes to your work productivity. There's just been weeks like last week when I came back, you know, there were my sons, you know,

Yeah, yep, yeah.

He's off. know, I actually, my, my daughter was away for a week. And when we came back from Paris and you know, I had a bit of work, but he's off or he's in the summer and he's just been away for two weeks, you in summer camp and been busy and now he's home. And I feel bad because he was bored. Right. Cause he's been so busy with, you know, activities with his friends and, and I'm here. like, well, I have, you know, I have a clear calendar for certain spots. I'm like, well, I need to work. Right. That's my brain says I need to work. I'm like, by the same time, like.

Yeah.

Do you, like do you, like I can, I should, but there's also this moment like, well, maybe this is also time for me to just connect with him and maybe go for a run with him and, you know, teach him a few things. And, and so like, I'm always struck with that balance. So I'm trying to figure out, it's like, okay, like if I spend extra day or two days this week with him, like it's not the end of the world since I'm most likely just trying to keep busy. And so it's balancing those two things constantly. I think that's what most people struggle with.

Hmm. Yep.

And it's recognizing and just evaluating each week and go, hmm, could I have done that better? And I want, you know, I think that because that could stop creep from happening for too long from that, by doing a sort of weekly evaluation.

That's a good point because it could be the, okay, these are the metrics that I measure. What's my, you know, was it the, the, the state, the country of Bhutan have got the happiest, the happiest nation in the world. They've got a measure of level of happiness. so perhaps we, we need to do that more often and, and focus on the things that. Light us up and gives us joy. But like, like you, when I go on holidays, I go with a great intention, but I've taken the pressure off myself. So I, I realize I enjoy exploring. So I'll always take the sneakers so I can walk around. And if I walk around and I'll walk around like for five hours during the day, I'm good. I don't need, they need to do something else. I'm okay with that. And you're right. I, I don't tolerate certain foods very well, but occasionally if I'm, say to you, if I'm in Paris, if I'm in Spain, And there's a food that I really like, and I know I'm going to pay the price for it. I'll still go, you know what? It's worth it. You know, it's worth it. Oh, I'm going to run the gauntlet. I feel crap for today, tomorrow, you know, tomorrow next week, I'm back on track. sometimes it can be so rigid. You know, you can, you can live life with such a, such a rigidity that you'll get the specific outcomes, but then you get to a point where you get disillusioned or burnt out.

Yeah.

That I've, that's what I've realized over time is the, know, am I going to have a perfect skin fold? No, not worried about that way beyond that. Um, but it's more about going, how do I keep doing what I'm doing for as long as I can, but also enjoying the process, you know? And, uh, I think that that's, that's what, that's what retreats. That's what personal growth work. That's what a living a life of wanting to improve brings for you is he always asking questions and you always. Sometimes you'll overshoot it. Sometimes you'll nail it. Sometimes you go, Oh, I'm off track here, but I don't know. I think that that, and you and I sharing that, and I think I've mentioned to you before, you and I sharing this podcast, uh, initially was difficult for some people to conceptualize because our brands, initially there's a, there's a, there's a high standard in a lot of the brands that we do. And for here we are, we've, we've done this passion project for a while talking about how things aren't perfect. And a lot of people can't fathom that. can't, people can't conceptualize that, that you'd actually do that. And it's been really liberating to be able to talk about it from that perspective. But that's what I've realized over time is that the pressure to uphold a particular standard sometimes becomes a cage that you trap yourself in and just being able to be free and liberated and to reevaluate things is such a, such a great place to be able to be. And I think that that's what time away does for me.

Yeah, I think, you know, leaning into your flaws and leading into, just being aware of like where you, um, are being trapped in your own life, um, actually creates more sense of freedom because you actually are willing to evaluate it. You're willing to kind of look into it. And I think, you know, I hope that people can take away from this is like, you know, it's, scary to a point to kind of know, um, you know, about the dark sides of yourself and the shadow sides of yourself. But what's more scarier is that.

Hmm.

you could have actually done something about it and 10 years go by and you didn't do something about it, right? So I think that's more scarier and here me going back to my shadow self of, you life without regrets. So I caught that too. See, at least I know.

And what's scary and what you did, you did. And what's scary is that now you've, we we record it and it's recorded and it's in posterity and you've got some AI bot, you know, keep reminding you that, um, Hey man, it's this, it's the, it's your accountability on steroids going, Hey, remember that, remember that, remember that. So, um, but yeah, look, thank you for today. It was, it was, um, yeah, it was just taking a theme and going on and talking about the importance of both.

Yes. Yeah.

growth, also reflection, you know, and the journey and the parallel and the paradox of both of those as we go along.

So the key things, take the pause, learn to take the pause and whether it be a day or a week or a month or a quarter or half a year or a year, then make sure you do it to evaluate yourself, where you're at, where you're at in your life, how happy you are, how unhappy you are, and then go ahead and actually start reducing things, removing things or adding things to make that life better so that you can experience a better life. This is the Wabi Sabi Podcast and knowing that. when you go through that life of experiences that there's always going to be imperfection in that journey. Take care, we'll see you on the next episode.