The Balance Between Passion and Peace

Welcome to Wabi Sabi. This is the art of imperfection. And right now the day of recording it is summertime and it's hot, hot, hot, hot in summer. uh And I'm not sure about where Embra is. It's summer there. He's got the sun, I think.

Sure is as you can see with me wearing my... It was actually hot. It was actually hot here for about, you know, two weeks by uh Scottish standards. Yeah, it is. And, and, and then, and then it got to really hot, like 25 and I happened to be away and then I've come back and it's been cold. So I've missed the peak of the Scottish summer.

Wow, there's your summer, it's gone. Uh, you basically lost the summer. Two weeks has gone by, man. Oh, well, well, listen, like it's been, it's been, uh, it's so, I, okay. I know what our topic is going to be today. And, and I'm going to start off with this, right? Summertime in Europe. This is my third summer and I got to, I've experienced this three times now. It's been a while. So, and I'm going to explain this in North America, we have our summer, which is July and August. And I've lived through that my whole entire life, most of time at the beginning. And then it went to Australia, which is then, you know, summer is usually sort of after Christmas, right? So it's really only about a month, right? January is really kind of summer. I mean, I know the summer is there, but I'm talking about school holidays and the holidays. So the contrast here is, that there's it's two months versus one month in a way that doesn't mean that Australia doesn't get holidays and stuff throughout the year. Of course they do.

Hmm.

But what I'm talking about is mostly like where the European summer takes it to another level. And what I mean by that takes to another, it reminds me of when I used to go to school where I didn't have to go to school for two full months. Well, Europeans are almost like from a work perspective, it's like no one does anything for two months, right? August especially, like we're not in August yet, it's August is gonna be like no one works. Everybody's gone. July is sort of like half the people have gone and half the people are here. So, and it kind of leads into this,

Quit soft.

leads into the topic of finding purpose and passion for something like you're wired to do. I gotta say, being in Europe for that is really hard because during these two months where everybody switched off, you're like, oh, I wanna switch off too. I don't wanna dive into this at all. Do you ever feel this way? I don't know sure how it is in Embra.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Like so the right now is the sweet spot for people in, in Scotland, uh, because a lot of them are away and a lot of what I found out is that the English school holidays start like next week. So the Scots go on holidays two weeks earlier before peak school holiday, rack rates and everything, Kiki. And so these periods are really quiet. And when I was in Ireland a few weeks ago, And they do the same thing. they're also, uh, Scotland Island seem to be synchronized. So they're trying to get ahead of the English so that they're not paying full, um, fees and rack rates, but they get you in April, in August in here in Scotland with the fringe festival. that, you know, you never really, you know, you've got to, it's like, you know, um, Tom Cruise, um, trying to go through mission impossible through all these, um, land mines. When you're thinking, okay, I think I'll go here.

Yes.

Oh yeah, but if you go there, that's that peak time. you're constantly juggling, trying to find the happy medium. And I think you're right Lawrence. It does take a little bit of getting used to, because in my mind, the half we're working through a half year and then you're just on holiday mode. like, it's still taking me a little while to get used to.

Well, guess you're, yeah, yeah, you live in Australia mostly, like all your life and the, you know, so it's going to be really hard for you. I had some glimpse, but it's been 20 years where I didn't have that experience. And, know, both of us still have Australian clients. So like where there's just like, they're in the middle of winter, right? So there's like, they're full on their heads in the game. And so I'm kind of torn. my clients are, you know, they're in the game and I'm like, I'm half like out of the game in a sense, you know, I'm trying to budget all my time and kind of work around.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

that I remember out like I was in Paris last week and in Toronto, like I remember I had to do a webinar and I was literally in the Royal Palace garden doing a webinar because you know, I was out and about I'm like, I don't want to walk an hour all the way back to my hotel. So I'm like, okay, well, I can do this webinar out on on the street and in this garden and nice beautiful garden. And, and that's where I was I did the webinar and that so I'm not complaining because that's really great that I can actually work from anywhere in the world. and run a webinar, uh but at the same time, it's this pull, and I feel like this pull is in me a lot. uh Not just in the summer, it's just more heightened around the summertime, but it's in me through the year as well. And it's where you're so focused on something and you're like, yes, I really wanna dive into it, but there's only so much energy you can pour into any particular project where you start to kind of feel like you're kind of running out of steam.

Yeah.

And then so you start questioning, I going too hard or do I need a break or, then, but then you like, there's these two woes, right? That are sitting inside your head. Like one's like, keep going. Like, you you gotta go. But then the other side is like, Hey, you're to burn out. know, life is not about that life. It's joy is about, you know, finding being present in the moment and enjoy life. And so you're constantly battling. And I feel like if I, can't be the only one. And I read your post this morning about this and I've resonated that really, really strongly. And I'll love for you to kind of maybe dissect that a little bit and what you're thinking, because I guarantee you all of our listeners are thinking about this throughout the year too, not just any seasonal timing on this.

Yeah, thank you. Um, yeah, what, what I posted about today and I guess some context is that like a hundred percent correct about what you're saying. I I'm, uh, I was in London on the weekend doing having conference. I'm back home for two days and I'm really cranking because tomorrow I'm flying to Spain to set up for a retreat, running a retreat in Spain for four days, three and half days. And it's just been really intense. Right. And, uh, And you know, we've got our recording today, which is something that I really love doing. really love doing, if it wasn't something that I was like doing today would have been one of those Lawrence. This is just too much, but I actually really enjoy it. Plus knowing that with summer, our schedules are going to be all over the place and you know, every recording session is, is, valuable. So, so I'm doing that. And I found myself constantly with that in that scenario where I don't like to get complacent, but at the same time, I've got to keep reminding myself, man, it can't always be grind. It can't always be work. So we've got the retreat and then we are. We've got an enforced block out time on the beach, uh, strapped the retreat. So I've got taking the week off to decompress. And I think that's important because like you're right in Europe, certain things have getting to the end of the season. People are going into summer mode. They're not really looking at, um, doing a lot. So a lot of. projects and things have been deferred till September. So you go, okay, that's really good. But what's happening now in, in, other parts of the world and different countries that I'm involved in as well. particularly most particularly Australia, everybody's at home, cold and frozen. they're like, okay, now the things that I want to get things going. So there were things that I had to just go, listen, I know it's urgent, but I, uh you know, that's, that's something that I just can't deliver on. can't, uh, uh, basically I know I'm If I don't decompress, then the version of me post that break is going to be one that feels tired and exhausted. So that's, that was kind of a boundary that I had to, had to draw it because otherwise the, next sprint will be, just as we're starting to lean into an Australian summer, then Europe cranks up again. So you find yourself, I've had to work harder to, to bring about breaks here than, than I could remember, to be honest. Um, since, you know, compared to just being in Australia and being very Australian centric.

Yeah, because I had clients from both Europe and Australia, even when I was in Australia, you kind of felt this rhythm for every single year. I just felt this pull have my clients or Yeah.

I didn't as much. didn't as much. know, like most of them was a lot more Australian centric up until the last three years. And since then it's yeah. And I, totally understand that now Lawrence. really do.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely a pull. And the only time that they balance out is usually spring and autumn, even though it's flipped. like during that, those periods when everybody's on go, but it's, it's a paradox though, isn't it? It's a massive paradox because I feel this pressure sometimes. And even like, you know, I just been away for a week and, and, and France, and I really try to focus on not just not no work whatsoever, except for like that one webinar that had to, it's that had to do. And so it's a fixed one and everything else was kind of like, um, I just put it aside and spend time with my family. try not to be on my phone. I really just kind of just absorbed and ate a lot and just spend a lot of time just going to whatever, know, museums or try to stay away. Actually, we didn't really go to that many, you know, uh, touristy thing, which is great. And so we just kind of absorbed that and, and, and really just enjoy that moment. But then when it came back yesterday was my first day and was like, okay, I had all this intention and ready to go. And then, you know, I had a whole bunch of calls to start off that, you know, you know how it is after you come back on holiday, just bash the calls and he's just boom, boom. And then by the afternoon, I'm like, I'm so tired. Whenever I plan, like, I honestly have no energy, whatever. And all that talk about, you know, like, come on, stay focused, know, dah, dah, dah. It's just like, nah, like I'm just like done for the day. And this constant pull and I find, and I know that it's okay to do that, but I also know on the flip side is that it's not okay to do that if that's the excuse I use all the time.

Yeah, yeah.

And so this is a constant uh dilemma that goes through my head and also energetically is to kind of remind myself to do the things as necessary when it's necessary and keep going, but also recognizing there's breaks. So the paradox is because both insights and you can grab quotes for each one, right? You use Marker's Aurelius for the quote of kind of keep going, right? And then, I guarantee you there'll be another quote for something else about finding joy and peace and happiness, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And they all are both perfectly aligned and we align to it. And I think this is where most people get stuck is that we're both aligned to those thoughts, the hustle, the hardness, the toughness and how we do have to work. then, but at the same time of peace and gentle and quietness and taking solace and the serenity, and there's that, those sides are constantly pulling at us every single day. And I think what happens, I don't know if you believe in this or not, but I feel like the reason why it's like a constant pull is because it depends on what you're exposing yourself to, like your environment or the people around you that may be in different states and their energy may affect your energy in a sense. So if you're in a hustle, hustle mode, like really all go and you meet up with a bunch of people that are just in that mode of like, you know what, I'm just, I'm meditate for a couple hours. I'm gonna find some time. I'm gonna spend my next three months to, and you meet those people who are like, oh, maybe I should be doing that, right? Or the other way around, you're in this state of peacefulness and meditation. And then also you meet these entrepreneurs who are just ready to go on building this and building this. You're like, oh, maybe I need to. And so we get kind of pulled in those, because they're the contrast. What do you feel about that? Do you ever get sucked into that too?

Yeah, totally. Yeah, exactly. I'm reading this book at the moment. I'm nearly finished. It's a great book called the Passion Paradox, where it talks about, you know, traditionally, you know, passion in historical Latin sense was, you know, the suffering, which, that's where the whole passion of the Christ came from, Mel Gibson, maybe some people are familiar with. But in the seventies, we took it on as an admirable trait where you actually, passion was an indication, hey, you're all in. And they argue that, you know, that's great.

suffering.

But sometimes you lose yourself in that process and it's that self-awareness. so, yeah, I can be really sucked into the whole talk up a big game and get like, I just can do that really naturally. the reason why I, I distinctly have two opposing screensavers available to me is because they represent the contrast and the harmony that I need to focus on. Find the, that the, the equilibrium between both is to actually Not get complacent, not get overly comfortable. I also remind myself that it can't just stay like that all the time because that's out of, know, that's basically unsustainable and either of them are great. by the same token, did you see that meme? It would have been about, uh, it's been floating for a while, six months ago. was some baller on, on, on, um, Instagram who talked about his whole, um, morning routine and it goes on for like four hours and it's like, here's my morning routine, the whole splash my head in the water type thing. And. A parody was made of that because sometimes it can be taken to an extreme. Here's a guy I get up and I do 45 minutes of meditation modified by, um, you know, like, you know, three hours of sauna or this and that. And it's like, yeah, up to like five hours of morning routines when why didn't you just have four more hours of sleep? You know, like that. So it's, it's the rigidity with which, um, people go, you have to do this that I find I naturally. have resistance around, but I have to have what they talk about in this passion paradox book is self-awareness is to actually go, am I right now? What do I need right now? Do I need to boot myself off the bike and get going? Or I need to just slow down a little bit and just, you know, rewind and just unwound, should say, not rewind so that I feel better.

Yeah. Well, basically you hinted out two very, important things, right? One is the yin yang, right? Maybe the Chinese had to write it the whole time, right? So it's like,

Maybe they did, could be on something. It's what's lasted so long. It's trending and it's actually that, yeah, it's still trending.

Yeah, there's always a bit of yang and some ying and there's a bit of ying and some yang, right? So I just love that, you know, that black and white image, right? With the, you know, I'm sure we all seen it with black on one side and there's a white dot, right? And there's a white on the other side, opposing side, which has the black dot, which means you gotta have the balance of both is what you're kind of saying is that balance of both is so important in your life. And if you don't have that, and it's not one way or the other, but what you said, what's really important to really resonate with me is the self-awareness. And this is what's key. The key is about self-awareness. And I use the example to start this off about comparison. And that's where we get lost, right? It's when we get stuck in comparison. That's when you get stuck in comparison is that when you lose yourself, right? We're not actually focusing on what we want and what we need in this moment in your life. And your life is very different than my life. We're in different paces, different age, different projects or whatever. And that's what... people are comparing themselves to and the problem when they start comparing, we lose our own, I guess, thought about what you need right now. And this really hit home when I was in France, I was just like, you know, I a lot of time to, I realized what I was doing, I was actually focusing on too much distraction. So I spent a lot of time like on YouTube or podcasts and I take in a lot of information. And what I realized, you know, when I was away was that actually even a couple of weeks before that, for the last couple of weeks, I've been realizing that all I do is just distract myself with information. I know a lot of things, but I actually don't necessarily spend a lot of time actioning a lot of things because it's like, by the time I start thinking about one and then another thing, another YouTube video is like, oh, that's a great idea. And then I jumped from this and I just get into this squirrel syndrome where I'm like chasing after the next thing over and over again without actually dedicating myself to do. I've been really consciously, um

Mm.

doing my very best to kind of reduce the amount of time that I need to distract because I'm so good at it for doing it for so long. Like when I'm watching the dishes, I put on some headphones or if I'm in the car, I'm listening to something. It's just instead of listening to music, I'm just like literally listening to information. And that information is random. could be like something on business, something on investment, something on whatever. And I feel like I'm not actually listening to my own head. because I'm so filled with my head with other people's information, other people's voices, that I'm actually losing myself. And it was really good to be able to just walk around France. Sometimes, you know, like I had to walk by myself to catch up with my, you know, my family, because you know, say from the webinar, I had to walk. Instead of what I would have done was put on some headphones, listen to a podcast, so I didn't waste that time. But you should be wasting it. You should be listening to Wabi Sabi all the time. But anyways, that's beside the point.

Yeah.

It's a, you know, and what I did was actually didn't even use the headphones. just walked, you know, and I walked and I walked and, and while walking with the family, we were walking, I was telling you 15, 18 kilometers a day, just walking from one place to another, no headphones, no nothing, no YouTube videos or whatever, just like just walked and just observed. And, and that's like, I'm hoping that that's allowing like my inner voice to start to come up and start to listen and the ideas to throw. And this is what the whole point of meditation is, right?

Yeah.

I've been, you know, trying to meditate, not trying, I've been meditating every day for 124 days now in a row, think. Um, you know, small ones, short ones, like I'm not putting myself in this pressure of like 20 minutes meditation. So I'm talking five minutes minimum. That's what I'm doing. Just like trying to quieten the mind, just trying to get into the habit and, things are coming through a little bit easier, right? Things are thoughts and one insight for me and which, which I'll bring it home now, it's which is the thought of, actually don't know what I want. And hence therefore, I'm just doing whatever. And so what I realized I had to do was to get quieter and go, okay, if I had to redesign my life, what would that look like in the next two to three years? You know, what do I actually want? And, and like from a broader perspective, instead of just project based, I'm like, I can do a whole bunch of projects, but what am I really chasing after? And someone gave me that inside, you know, a couple weeks ago, was like, what are you actually trying to accomplish?

Mmm.

And I actually don't have clarity on that. And it could be a money monetary thing or like a family thing or whatever it is. Like I don't actually have an answer to that. I've just been living my life. And it's been a while where I said that I'm like, oh yeah, okay. There is a path or I'm building something or I'm building for this, but there is an actual clarity on that. So I've been sitting there with that thought to try to build some sort of answer. I'm not forcing it. I'm not just like, okay, let's get this done. I'm just like allowing it to sit, write a few things down, let us percolate for a while, and then I'm allowing things to kind of come through. that doesn't mean I don't do anything. Like in the meantime, I'm still doing things, but I'm just allowing that bigger picture. And then hopefully when that is clear, then I can go, okay, these projects no longer work. I'm heading in this direction. So that's sort of where I'm at at the moment.

Yeah. Yeah, nice. And you know, I do, I also very productive in, you know, every spare moment, like whenever I go off, you know, whenever we haven't had home help, you know, having had a cleaner or something like that. So, Hey, we need to do some vacuums. Yeah, I'll do it. Cause I see it as 45 minutes of podcast listening time. Uh, and, and I just happened to do that. So I'm always batching ideas and that's productive anyway, but. What I've been walking, I've been doing the same thing, particularly for about last six or eight weeks. As much as I listened to podcasts, it's probably the least amount of audio book and podcasts listening I've done probably in years because I get out and I just want to quieten the, the. the noise and the input going in. I've actually deliberately just been walking and it's funny how many random interactions that you have as a result, you know, like the, the little old lady when you're walking asks you for directions and then says, you've got an interesting accent where you're from. that constantly starts a conversation or, or, you know, it's just, that that's what I realized. I was so in my own focus and we've talked about it when you're traveling and all those kinds of things, but I've never been stopped more regularly than I have in the last uh four, six weeks for instruct for destruction or someone making a comment or, random interactions. And I just realized how locked off I was to that because of that I was so far into it. I'm, I'm, that's how you're tapping into the sensory input from everywhere. You know, where I've specifically been walking around nature and walking by the beach and just really hearing the sounds and interactions and it does, it's been very calming and cathartic and therapeutic to be able to do that, to realize that you can slow down that stress response just by engaging with your environment, with all your senses. So that's what I found as well. And more ideas come to me then incidentally, because they're more, uh they're constructed organically rather than forced into it. I go, that's a great idea. So I feel like there's a higher integration because it's coming from self as well.

It's not so interesting, right? It's that's exactly what I termed it as. was like noise, just like it's a lot of noise, right? And, and, and I'm, don't know if this is around the same time I was listening to this, whereas we can literally drown ourselves in a noise, Netflix, podcasts, books, whatever for the rest of our life without ever having to run out of things to, to actually consume.

Mmm.

Right? Isn't that amazing though? Like we've gone to this stage of where we're no longer bored or we no longer doesn't, more, we are bored. But what I'm saying is we no longer um have a lack of content, right? Whether it be music, books, information, digestion of things, uh there's no shortage of that. and then, but the signal to noise ratio, right, is what I was referring to, which is what you kind of.

Yeah, there's no shortage.

set there too, like, that's what I felt was, I was like, there's just a lot of uh noise. I'm not listening for the key signals, because I'm just distracting myself with so much noise. I'm not quieting my mind enough to allow the key signals to kind of come through. And that's when I realized, I'm like, all right, and I still got to do a better job with it, because it's, what do you call it, addiction or whatever, but it's like, we've just been so productive.

lot of the data shows that yeah, we're all a lot of people are addicted to it, you know, and, I have to work, except you, I think I mentioned to you, the reason why I physically read books is that it forces me not to, um, be digitally stimulated, uh, because yeah, I, I find myself like, if I've got a visual cue, if I, if something's going on around me, like that's, gets my attention and I, I can lose focus. But I get irritated. have noise. If there's a lot of noise that from a stress response that increases my stress levels significantly. So I forgot my noise canceling earphones flying to London on the weekend. Oh man, that felt like, honestly, I felt like I was in a drum and someone was just beating a drum and I got off the plane and I was agitated. So I need to set sensory sort of decompression. know, I need, I need to

The worst. The worst.

cut that out and so I deliberately have to detox those areas because it does it stresses my nervous system I can feel it.

Hmm. And that's exactly the greatest analogy around how we are living life. Right. There's just so much distractions, so much noise. And unless you quieten it down to a point where you actually can actually hear, you can't, you know, what you talked about passion is really hard to find that sense of purpose. Uh, something that you willing to kind of go after. And I love that word passion. Cause I, I've been saying that for years, right? I remember learning that word for like 20 years ago when it was like, you know, people always mistake passion for like chasing.

Mmm. Tony Robbins always live with passion, you know, and you do, you take that on board, but they're constantly.

Yeah, yeah. But you think passion, most people think of passion as love for something, but it's not. The root Latin word for passion is to suffer. It's what you're willing to suffer through. And that's what passion really means, you're correct on how we flip that. And everybody just goes after live with passion, live with that love. It's no, no, it's like live, like you're willing to suffer through this and that's how much you want it. You want it that bad. And, uh, and, and that's a challenge because most people, know, most people are chasing me included things that you're not necessarily passionate about. You just think that it's going to get you there, but you're not really willing to suffer through it to get to the end. You know, and that's with anything you do have to suffer to get to, you know, be as good as you as a Jiu-Jitsu or you be as good at, know, to create, you know, some amazing company, whatever it is. I actually listened to something today. was watching a feed, uh, sorry. So what's awkward that we're talking about. money and enjoyment. so they're, you know, they're just, you know, recently Bitcoin just, you know, hits them all time high. And, and this person was like the feeling, you know, the question was like, how is everybody feeling? And a lot of people were just like, Oh, I feel nothing right now. Right. Cause usually it's ecstatic and joy. And it was like, and he made this comment, I was just, it really kind of stuck with me. It was like this comment of just watching my money grow. Doesn't feel as exciting as if I actually created it. out of something by creating some value into the world. And I wonder if that's been a toy in my mind ever since I read that. I like, I wonder if this is what happens to a lot of my members in my Tiger 21 group. They spend most of their lives just creating and busting their ass to create this amazing and successful business. They sell it, they exit it, um their identity is somewhat lost, but then there's also this, now it's about investing and how do you keep...

Yeah.

You know, how do you keep all that wealth for generations? But then there doesn't, there's not, it's not the same play. Like it's a different game now, right? The game is when you were in the, the game, you were the player, right? Whereas almost like now you're not, not even the coach, like you're almost like the general manager or not. I maybe the owner of the team, right? Like you're not actually playing the game anymore. You're you own the team that plays. So there's, it's almost like you can't influence it. So watching your stock. you know, or your equity or whatever you choose that go up in value. It's like, okay, you chose it well, but you didn't actually influence it. Like the only decision you made in creating values that you chose the right one rather than actually influencing a stock.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know what? I'd much rather have that than not have that. However, there is a comfortable point where a lot of people ask for meaning. And, uh, was a term that I really, uh, I don't even know how it came into my consciousness, but concept of meaningful money, meaning that, uh, I still want to be abundant and, and keep the trajectory going, but it's gotta be meaningful. It can't be empty. And, and same thing, man. uh

Yes.

I've got it on the Bitcoin train. I'm a Bitcoin bro uh now. Um, uh, I'm converted. Um, yeah, is. but, but, know, there's something that you go, okay, great. Um, you know, it went up 10 % in a day or in a week and it's like, great. Awesome. Um, what, what do I keep doing now? Right. So that's that to me was, there was a

Welcome brother.

There was a co-practor called Eric Plasker who talked about that and being focused on process, not outcome. And I remember it said something that stuck. said, when you're in a zone, you're doing stuff that really is exciting and you love what you're doing. You do it. You open up your bank book back when you could open up bank books, not your account and go, wow. And then you shut it go back to work. And it's the going back to work and working to something that is the joy. And that is so true. the, the, the, the outcome is great. The boats, the cars, they're all great, but you can't do that 24 seven. And it's, it's the other things that you do that give the other things, the more joy, the sweeter, the, the challenge, the sweeter, the victory type thing. So I can get that. And when you lose the sense of having to strive for something, to work towards something, the joy on the outcome. is sometimes a little bit lost. It's, just, okay, where was the, you know, where was my self esteem that grew as a result of achieving something like, so yeah, we're not talking like being pushed to within an inch of your life, but something needs to happen for pet, for us to be able to appreciate it. And yeah. And so for me, I think there's definitely it's that's definitely been filtering. So when I'm looking at my screensaver, I'm reminding that the things that I'm pushing towards are things that I've chosen that I want that are important to me. So I've already gone through that filter. I've cleared a lot of the stuff that I don't want to do. I really have. I've gotten rid of things and responsibilities and, and, uh, even divisions of parts of my company that I just don't want to do. And so the parts that if it's in my circle, it's something that I really want to do, but even when that, I know that there's work to do and I'm up for it. I'm okay with it because I chose this. I willingly choose this. as opposed to have to, and I don't know that that, that gives a level of fulfillment, even though it may be tiring, but I go to bed going, I've put in a honest full day and, they'll, that's what they've talked about the honesty of a full day's work. And if it is something that you're inspired by irrespective of what the outcome of that bank balance is, you go to sleep content. And I think that that's, I've appreciated that more.

Yeah, for sure. That's exactly what I mean is that it's not about like not having investments and it's not about like not doing that. It's more the fulfillment side internally and that internally fulfill like, mean, of course, I'm sure the investors or people who are like really are traders or whoever that at a heart, I'm sure they're finding some sort of purpose in that. But I'm sorry, I'm talking for the majority of us who are who have purpose and identity somewhere else other than finances, the finance part, like watching that grow isn't necessarily going to necessarily fulfill you and finding that little joy and

Hmm. Yep. Yep.

involvement of human labor, of your contribution to society. um I think that's where what I'm talking about the meaning. And I think a lot of people find they forget about that. And it is a game, right? It's a it doesn't have to necessarily produce money either. Right? You can do there's a lot of things that provide meaning for you that doesn't require a return in terms of money. And that could be your kids, for example, it could be like raising, you know, amazing human adults. in the future and making sure that they are thriving for the future. Like that's just, there's no monetary gain from that, right? There is just a sense of joy and proud and pride that comes through doing something like that. It could be, you know, helping out, you know, a particular cause or a particular, you know, charity or something that you truly believe in. Those are the things that really kind of move towards some sort of a skillset or an achievement. And it could be a sport. you know, like, you know, you are, you know, obviously want to get better as a jiu jitsu, I want to be better as a paddle player, like, just those things, even though there's definitely no monetary income, if anything, we're paying for training and all that stuff. For what? Well, I'm not becoming a pro at 50. Right. So, but it's just that the sense of joy and sense of achievement and sense of like winning and losing and, you know, I like Today I played a paddle match and we played three games and all three games went to like a tiebreaker at the end. Like, you know, lost by margins, you know, like we lost two sets by just because we couldn't close it. It was so disappointing, but yet going, but that was a good game though, right? Like it was so hard to lose, but it's like, but it was close. You know, I didn't lose six zero.

Yeah. Yeah. Those, and those attributes stay with you. read today, um, the oldest marathon runner in the world just died. Just died. 114. 114. Yeah. He got hit by a car.

Au No, wow. Oh, no. Oh, really?

this guy did not start running till he 89. He ran his first marathon at 90. Right? And he ran it in something like six hours 50 minutes, smashed the oldest over 89 record or whatever by something like two hours and he ended up doing a marathon in five hours 40 minutes which is like sensational like there's there's people

Wow, wow. Jeez, that's insane.

a quarter of that age who do their first marathon and they do it in that time. So this guy at over a hundred did this event. So fascinating, know, fascinating. that always, I always, these little snippets, maybe it's because, you know, I'm getting older and, but to me, I'm like, mate, you're 25, you're a world-class athlete. That's terrific. Let's see if you could do that anywhere near what this guy's doing at a hundred. That to me, that, that is sensational.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So true.

Right. And I really sit up and take notice there because you're not counting on genetic potential then you're not counting on attributes that carry you through. yeah, you know, like, Oh, uh mind you, he's yeah, he was, he was a Punjabi, he was called the Punjabi marathoner and, and he was lean. And so let's be honest, he was built for marathon running, you know? And so, uh, so he's got that going ahead of him, but even still like it.

Well, it... No. Well, there's gotta be a layer of genetics, though, no? Like, there's gotta be a Yeah, taking anything away from them, but yeah, for sure.

You know, yeah, but he wasn't, yeah, he wasn't built like a power lifter and that makes running a marathon a lot easier, that's, that's that passion. You know, that's that, that part of us that goes, Hey, I want to do something meaningful. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. finding meaning, there's some meaning to it. So here's the thing, right? It just reminds me of a story when I was in Paris last week. uh my Karen and my daughter booked us some tickets to go to see the Catacombs of Paris. Have you been to the Catacombs of Paris? Do you know what they are? Okay, so I didn't know this, right? So the Catacombs of Paris, and I filmed this video not knowing what I was gonna see, but anyway, so here's the thing. The Catacombs of Paris was from like, I think first century.

No, I haven't been.

to like 1700s. For years, it's underground, deep underground, and the Parisians have basically mined some limestones underneath, like tunnels, 300 kilometers worth of tunnels down there, okay? And these are the same limestones they bring up to build the Notre Dame, the Louvre, right? And all the buildings are in Paris since, know, beginning of the earlier time. And so, What was interesting, 300 kilometers, you get to go down and actually walk about 1.5 kilometers worth of these tunnels. During the late 1700s, around 1787, around that time, Paris was full of people, but there was also, as many people, there's a lot of people die. And so there's all these bodies, and they didn't have proper, there's not enough places to bury them, right? They didn't have it. And it started rotting and it started falling into people's homes. They said, we got to do something about this. And so what they did was they dedicated to go like, let's take all these bones of these dead bodies and start putting it down into the catacombs because we have all these tunnels down there. And so that's what they did for the next 12 years. They moved these bones at night time because you people didn't want to, you know, they have a chant and sing music, whatever they do at a nighttime. And they basically packed these rooms of these tunnels.

Mm.

filled with these bones. And it's not just like just dumping them, but they all kind of decorated them. know, like one was like a skull of hearts and all these femurs and knock up. Man, I've never seen so much. I've seen catacombs like these bones in other places around the world, but man, I've never seen that. had to like chat, GPT, and I'm like, how many people are estimated to be down there? Six million people are estimated to be down there. That's a lot, right? That's a lot of bodies. And it's fascinating, but I could not help.

Wow.

but feel this sensation when I was walking through this. I was walking and like, we're going through tunnels and tunnels of this. And there was this one point I realized, like I have this coin, right? And I just think I've shown this to you, like it's um called momentum or a right momentum or right. And it's to remember you must die. And it really kind of hit me, right? Of watching these, watching these bones. like, you have no idea. Like there's children's in there. There's children bones or adult bones, female bones, male bones, right? You can't tell.

Momentum, or yeah, yeah, it's a great coin. Yeah.

Oh, except for the children and I was like, but you can't tell what age they were. You can't tell what, how old they were, what sex they were just by looking at them. You couldn't tell what race they were, whether they were poor, whether they were rich. You couldn't tell whether like, you know, that they had a great life or not, or they were their beggar. You know, you have no idea. They all end up in the same place, right? All those bones are scattered from different districts and they all put in here all together side by side. laying on top of each other, right? And it really occurred to me, I'm like, with all the stuff that's going around the world, like so much hatred, so much fighting, so much like disagreement, left versus right, da da da da da, that's where we're all gonna end up. Like that, you and I, right? Whether we're fit and strong, whether we're the most healthiest person or whether we know we're poor, we're all gonna end up there. But the difference is though, right? The main difference is the life you get to live, right? We all end up the same.

Yeah. Yeah.

but it's the life, the experience that they can't take that away, right? You get to live it and you get to live a life with abundance or you have a life of scarcity or you have a life of privilege or like just love or passion and meaning, or you have get to live a life with just full of Netflix. Like that's a choice. Again, nothing wrong with either. It's just a matter of like, the question should be asked is what do you want? How do you want to live your life?

Yeah. Yep. And, and yeah, that's a great point. And you know, I, it's so different for different people. Like I remember my dad in the latter stages of his life, you know, very simple, very simple man, you know, like, and, uh, didn't have an opportunity for an education. And yet what he did, you know, I I often said to myself, you had the equivalent of a grade three education, my dad. And when, when he migrated and he pretty much. set up his whole family and he migrated to Australia. So I often go, what would you have done with education? But then sometimes that might not have worked because it was probably that underdog principle that got him where he was. And at the end of his life, he succeeded on so many metrics and there were things that I would go, Hey, would you like to do this? No, he was content. He was content. He didn't want for anything. He had a really simple thing. He goes, I don't need anything. I don't want anything. I'm happy. I'm content. I've fulfilled my life's purpose. And that was to grow a family, bring up a family and give them every opportunity they ever had that I didn't have. And that was a fulfilled man. And by, by his standard and measure, he was, he was, he was done. was fulfilled, but wasn't for me to judge whether that was fulfilling reference to relative to how I saw it. You know, so But here was a guy in these, you know, 90s who could actually pass away going, okay, I'm done. I'm filled content. And I think that that's how I'm looking at it through that prism and that view that point is, um, finding meaning and fulfillment. And maybe that's coming with maturity, but that's, that's the filter. That's really, really important. So if you see me cranking, know that I'm doing what I want to be doing. And I think that's probably the difference. And can I sometimes regulate that better? have a better awareness. Of course that's where we're, we're, we're on the human journey like everybody else, but you can be super clear that I'm not doing what I don't want to do. And I think that that's definitely something that I've learned particularly, particularly over the last handful of years, uh, just how precious it was. And your story took me to that place, Lawrence, about that, about, you know, just the the shortness of life and, um, you know, which, which has been spoken about before. and, uh, that, that, to me, that's the preciousness of

Yeah, and I think it's a wealth life, a life well lived, right? By your own standards, by your own um acknowledgement of what you desire, and it's not for anybody to judge. And I think that was the key point on what you sort of said. And I think that that is harder and harder in today's society, mostly because we have so much, as we said, noise and distraction of comparison because we're exposed to everybody else's desires, right? Because we have social media and because we have access to the rest of the world.

Hmm. Yeah. Hmm.

you know, with a click of a button or just a screen, a swipe, we actually able to see what we're missing. And I think, you know, for our parents, you know, they didn't know what they didn't know. They didn't know the abundance of America or whatever, unless you were exposed to it. And I think that's the key element is that we are now exposed to it, which we have to have a conscious effort to like tone it down, to go in inwardly to actually ask, what do you want though? Yes, there's a bunch of influencers and there's also billionaires living their life, having weddings in Venice and doing all those things, but is that actually what you want? Right? If that's what you want, go great, go after it. But is that what you really want? And that's the hard part. Like that's the separation from the noise to what you need to do. The signal that you need to have for yourself. It's like, what's the signal coming from yourself, right? Versus the noise that is coming on that is forced upon you, right? that you actually have to live. And this is what marketers do really well. And the marketers are, know, companies do very well by trying to tell you how you should live your life and you'll be more happy if you bought this or that or have this status. Hey, listen, I'm guilty of this, right? We're all guilty of that. We can't escape it. But it's like having the awareness to be able to like distinguish of like, is this what I internally want based on my soul, my spiritual, whatever, however, how you believe in that.

Yeah.

or is this based on someone else's expectation of me? And that's a big challenge. And I think that's the hard part to kind of separate. And I think that needs time to work on and maybe experience. And that's where I find uh where the work needs to be.

Totally. So if we can bring this to a summary, Lawrence, what would be either a key point or a out point that you'd make to summarize what we've spoken about today?

I would say that paradox exists and I don't think you can escape it. And the only way out through it is uh self-reflection and self-awareness.

Yeah, that's where I was going with. was just self reflection and, also awareness too, is to look back and go, what have I learned? then awareness to go, where am I right now? And how they link up together to me that that's really it. think that's if there's anything that I've learned, it's it's over time, particularly is just to listen to self more and to really tune in and dial in and get connected and uh guided meditation. I didn't ask you whether the meditations you are guided or they're just breathing ones. What would you prefer? Yeah.

I've been listening just with music. usually use listening to a lot of like monk chants and stuff and just allow me to breathe. I find the guided ones, depending on the voice can really derail me. Sometimes if I don't like the voice right away, I'm like, okay, I'm out.

Yeah. That, that, yeah, that trips me out too. I've found this certain, um, this, um, female voices that work much better for me than in particular once if it's too high pitch, it takes me out. So I totally agree. So that's why I've, I've found ones that work with me and I work, but most of the times it's same thing is just like, I'm trying to quieten down. It's just, I focus on breathing and presence. And that's pretty much what I'm focusing on as well. But,

Yeah. I think once you get that, once you get the self-awareness and I think then you can go after it, right? Then you can go after go find a meaning. I think that's what we're trying to say is it's the, it's kind of starts there. You have to have clarity of exactly where you want to go. So I hope that you enjoy this particular podcast. And again, this is not going to be perfect. This is why this is Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. This is not going be a perfect journey, but I'd love for you to kind of explore it and see what you took away from this particular episode to help you find your passion, your purpose, your being and go have a great experience of your life.

Awesome.

Take care until the next episode, bye.