I will be HAPPY when...

Welcome to Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. And man, what a couple of weeks has been. And I want to say, I'll start off by saying, this is, I'm to let Jim talk about Wabi Sabi and, and what today's topic is it really about, because really it comes down to you're going to listen firsthand of how we deal with Wabi Sabi, right? Moment to moment play by play. Uh, it's happening right now. Most of the time, sometimes you think, Oh yeah, you guys got it easy because you know, sure. you know, you guys done it before and over. No, like it still happens on a day to day basis. And we're right now in the midst of it right now. So let's set this context and then let's kind of discuss what we're to talk about today.

All right, cool. So Lawrence, I suggested that I put forward that we discussed, should say, the concept of I'll be happy when. And the reason for that is so many times in life, you know, when we're waiting for something, we're held up when we're in the midst of really challenging times, we get into the habit of thinking everything would be great when this is over or this is done or, you know, I remember thinking that when our kids were little. and they're teething and we're not sleeping at all. I'd be like, I'd just be happy when the kids are sleeping and then, and then I'll have this. And then suddenly I found that I was wishing time away and not really appreciating the time. You know, there was, there was the, I just didn't want to sit in the discomfort of it. was hoping, I don't know where there was an element of the grass is always green on the other side, but yeah, that was it. And I think stimulated predominantly by where I'm at.

Hmm.

right now. So I'm in the last day of staying in Spain. So at the time of recording, we fly out to Edinburgh tomorrow, start a new chapter in life and everything that could possibly have not gone to plan has not gone to plan. And that built the frustration and the backlog, I think a few weeks ago when we recorded, I had to cancel last week actually our recording. But I think from a previous episode in the same spot, I think I was pulling back the curtains, Lawrence, remember? And I was

You who did. That's right.

showing you the person in the background who was my neighbor. And I just got to a point where it was like, I'm done, I'm over it. And I hope, and I'll be happy when this is over. And I caught myself doing that. So I thought it'd be great, great conversation piece for today.

Hmm. Yeah. And the reality is, is that oftentimes that, uh, I think we all have moments like this. We all have moments where we think that, you know, it's grass is greener on the other side. You know, when something is better, once this is done, um, it'll be, you know, better for, we're better for it. Or, you know, once I have, you know, a million dollars or $5 million or $10 million, everything will be great. Or once I get past this, everything will be fine. And We create this story, think, I wonder why we create that story. And I guess as I talk it out loud, it's most likely because we're trying to create a scenario where we can just get past this moment. because, you know, we're stuck in this moment of a period of time or whatever the difficulty is or the pain or the, you know, the frustration that we actually have. And we're creating a narrative and a story in our heads that this will be over at some point. Like this too will be complete. And I think so we created this, I will be happy when this happens. But the reality is, is that what you're kind of highlighting is that you recognize is that that statement isn't really true because you'll be happier, but you won't be happy as in the sense of like, all of a sudden everything goes away and as if there's no other challenges. And I think that, I think we do this to ourselves because we're so ingrained in society through movies as an example, because movies all have happy endings. Well, typically most movies have a happy ending and then it's like, Once that happens, then everything's good. We're, we are complete and we forget that it's a 90 minute or 120 minutes worth of compressed story in a very short period of time that spans over maybe 10 years or, whatever the story goes and there's a complete ending. And then we just go, oh, like that's good. And then it feels complete. And we kind of want to wish and want our life to be the same way, but in reality it was nowhere close. Right. that 90 minutes is really more stretched out to a five -year block. And the training to get to Rocky style fitness isn't a 30 -second montage. It takes months of intense work where there's probably in that moment, I'll be happy when I've done this workout. So there's these kinds of storylines that I'm just creating all these factors that we have to deal with and contend with to take fiction.

No.

into reality, and then somehow find contentment in reality, even though we see the world through fiction. I don't know if that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right, because there's a story about that we paint in our minds of how things should be. You know, I shouldn't have to do this. They shouldn't do this, et cetera, et cetera. This should only take this amount of time. This should only cost this amount of money, et cetera. And we've spoken about the stock -tile paradox many times here, and I feel like I've been living it because, you know, there are times where for

Mm

for me and I felt like I was slipping into it so much because we were told that we would be complete in eight weeks and to get one particular visa, for example. And we it's now like 19 weeks for one. And in the interim, we had hard deadlines. It had to be in Edinburgh for. And so we had to go and double up and double up our legal expenses.

Hmm.

and go to a totally different application to get things done by a certain time. we found we were going, OK, things hopefully should be done by today, by today, by today. And they weren't. And we were riding the whole emotion, an emotional roller coaster of maybe it'll be today. And I found myself waking up every day expecting to find an email saying, hey, it's happening. And I was riding those disappointments. And I went, hang on a second. Hang on a second. What did I get myself into here? It's like, can't, know, the hope was always there, but I was, I was putting timelines on it because they were ones that we would want to work for us. And it was a really funny thing that happened. Our visa, a day of recordings, a Tuesday today, last got to Friday last week and you know, get to about, you know, four o 'clock on a Friday and but there, and I go, look, There is absolutely no chance at all. Unless someone's super diligent, there's no person in the passport office that's going to issue something at four o 'clock on a Thursday. So let's cast our chips. Let's chill out. Let's have a great weekend. So we went out, did something, you know, went dinner or whatever, came home. It was about 1130. I don't even know why either of us checked email, but Bettina did. And 1115, the email came through that passport. Sorry, the visa had been approved. It's like, what? So it came out of left field when we weren't expecting it, when we'd surrender and let go. And, you know, it was just really, really liberating. So that was the whole torment that we were living through in the Stockdale paradox because we set ourselves up for disappointment because on the daily we were expecting that things would happen rather than just surrendering and letting it happen.

You know, there's a, you're sort of, you know, I'll point it out, I guess, but it's a, you're, you, you as a person right now, showing up on this in particular podcast right now is, um, is a man who's been worn down. Like you can feel it, man. Right. So, I, know, it's, it's, and I think it's important for people to recognize that and see it and feel it because it happens to the best of us. Right. And it's like, and I, and I know you'll pick yourself a backup and things will go right back to, you know, the gym, but

Oh, yeah, yeah.

You know, you can definitely feel that you've been worn down. And this is exactly what, that's why it's so hard, right? It's, and I think what you mentioned there was hope. Hope is so important, right? Hope is so important to actually have, because without hope, you just can't, you almost don't want to move forward, right? But the problem with hope is sometimes is that, and this is what the Stockton paradox is that if you have so much hope, and but not accepting reality as well. And meaning like what you said about surrendering, it is a very surrendering process. And I'm going to attribute this to Southern Europe as a whole of surrendering. Like it's very difficult. And a lot of people struggle in Southern Europe. I expect expats especially who come here with a certain amount of expectation how the world works in terms of speed, efficiency, and they can't let go how inefficient things are here on a day to day basis. Like literally 15 minutes ago, I was just having a conversation with my wife about the lineup she had to do. She had to endure, um, to pay, you know, a small fee of like $22 and 22 euros or something for, know, some Portuguese lessons or something like something like the lineup just didn't move for like half an hour. And she goes, I'm losing my life.

Hmm.

Like to pay this, I'd pay more money if there was a credit card facility somewhere I just like tap and go. And so, but you have to like, if you can't, like if you don't surrender to that process of how things are done here, I think you lose, you do lose yourself. Like, because the hope is there, like they tease you with this hope that there's something, it's gonna come, it's gonna come. But it's like, it just doesn't happen. There's so many things we can talk about on a day like, I don't have a driver's license here.

Yep.

that I went for that thing three, four, four or five months ago. It's still in process. My wife got it in a month. She got, she, handed it in like a month later than I did. I still don't even have one. I don't know when I'm going to be. Sometimes it takes a year, right? Which is ridiculous, right? So I'm driving around on a piece of paper that says I can drive, which is, which I have to renew every six months. It's, it's nuts. And so the surrendering part. That's the hard part. And that's the adaptation that we kind of talk about a lot that you really do need to pull back sometimes to recognize like, am I going to just sit and hope and grind it through and let it grind me or do I need to see it from a different point of view? Right. And that's what you sort of kind of doing or at least processing through.

Yeah, I think, I think it's spot on. I think it's a good spot and probably Brian, Brian, Freddie could probably pick that out. Um, you know, I'm cooked. really am. Uh, I really am. You know, the easiest thing in the world today for me would have been to say, um, I actually don't feel like that Lawrence, you know, I really don't. And however, I felt it was going to be authentic to actually take people on this journey. If, know, whoever's listening to actually go, it's not all sunshine and rain, sunshine and rainbows. And You know, while today is our last day in Spain and we've brought forward a recording so I can go out for dinner with some great friends who are really excited about us. I know the first question they're going to say is, you really excited? And yeah, I am to a degree. But right now, I don't know whether it's just the relief of that process that, you know, it's been such a long drawn out process for us over the last two and a half years of working through some pretty amazing and ever resting. every, if there's such a word, uh, challenges that we've had to overcome and the process of overcoming pretty much every one of them now finally got to the back of it and went, Holy smoke, I'm exhausted. I'm tired. And I thought that, you know, when I got to this point, so today Bettina had to go to Madrid to pick up her passport up and back. She did that last week as well to drop it off, come back. So That's the process. so one o 'clock earlier today, she's called up and said, I got it. I got it. We can go. And even though we're booked tomorrow, it still wasn't confirmed. And so we had gotten to this point where we went the moment we get that everything's great, everything's good. And suddenly both of us are left with this sinking feeling. It's like, feel better. I really do. I don't know whether it's because I'm so exhausted and tired and have been running on the adrenaline of it all.

you

But that's what really stimulated me to want to talk about I'll be happy when because sometimes you get to an outcome and you don't get the feeling you thought that you would. so something's been missing along the way. So that'd be great sort of to pick that up and have a chat about that.

Yeah. And I think, you know, where you're at, it's, it's like, it's very, it's almost similar to a discussion we recently have, but it's like, it's, I'm to take it from two different angles. Like one is there's sometimes it's not the desk. It's all, it's never about the destination, right? That's just the, that's the facts. It's never about the destination, even though we think the destination is what we actually want to be happy with this house. So he goes, I'll be happy when, you know, I reached this destination, whatever the destination X is going to be. But it's really about, and we always know it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. And I mentioned previously that maybe it's not even about the journey. It's actually the person you become in that journey. That's what you're really excited about. And so that's the transformation, right? That most of us can really kind of relate to where we kind of peel back the layers. But yet we're still addicted to the destination. know, winning a Super Bowl, getting X amount of dollars, or getting that job, or... you know, whatever, like it's always feeling like the destination, but it's actually become like the person you become along the way that what you take for granted. The other side of that though, is I think what you're going through, because I guarantee your brain goes, I am being worse, worse of the person that I'm supposed to be. So I don't know what you're talking about Lawrence in this ridiculous journey. Yeah, right. But I, and I think this is a different scenario because

Yeah.

I don't think you're going to, and this sometimes happens, is that you're not going to recognize the lessons or the thing that come out of this experience. I think until later. I think it might be three months, six months down the road, or even a year where you look back and going, how funny was that? And I was thinking about that. so sometimes experiences are like that, right? There's just no joy when you reach a destination. It's like, I'm here. I thought it would be better. It's almost like going on holiday sometimes, right? It's like, okay. You know, it's like me going to Greece. Like I was just recently in Greece and like, you know, like Centurion. like, I always want to go to Centurion. I'm like, is this it? Right? Do you know mean?

Yeah. You know, it's funny you say that about Santorini. Our son was there as well. And he had the same feeling. He was like, I always wanted to go here. I got here. It's like, it's overrated. Didn't like it as much as I thought I would. And it's like, I thought I'd feel better. So yeah, it's interesting that you said that.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, and you hear so much about it and it's like, that's, it's just an example, right, of how we kind of feel sometimes of, you know, achievements we make, destinations we arrive to, and you reflect back. But sometimes it's like you don't have any joy in it because, but sometimes it's because you're worn down. Like it's because the process was so grinding that you don't even have the energy to appreciate it because it just wanted you down. And then it was almost like the initial joy of what you thought the destination was shifted. because of the pain and the process and the frustration along the way, just almost like is it wasn't even worth it, but you almost completed it because you because it was something you have to do.

Yeah. And I think it was, I like to be a person who finishes what they start. I think that's, that's an important process for me, but I think because it meant so much was what gave us the, I guess the fortitude to keep going when it was very difficult because there were many, many times where it was like, I could just let this go and never think about it again. But I understood that every step was important for the next step. So it wasn't just a, don't like doing this anymore. I'm done. I can keep carrying on with what I'm doing. Every step required its completion before you could start the next step. and if you gave up any one of those steps, you then that gave up the end game. And so that was why it was quite unique in that regard. So I think, I think I've also, I was reflecting on what you said too. without question, you know, like, have you ever heard of the concept of, you know, life cycles where you go through cycles and some people live on a seven year cycle and 10 year cycle and kind of patterns repeat. So I've worked out that I'm on a seven year cycle. Like a lot of things that show up, show up at around seven year periods. And I can trace this period back.

Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.

Like we went through an almost identical period the first couple of years that we graduated from chiropractic school and our first associate position was brutal. It was really tough. It was really challenging, but it set the tone for the next 15 years of how we went about everything around how we approach life, relationship, business, the whole lot. were some of the harshest rules at that time, but it was the sounding board, not the sounding board, there was a foundation and platform for what the next iteration and chapter of our life is going to look like. And I can, have the perspective of hindsight to go back and go, that was critical. That was pivotal. That defined us. We learned a lot about ourselves and I'm really grateful. It was terrible going through it at the time. And, and then there was, it was, and I just recalled now you're speaking about that in periods as well too. We went through a period of rapid acceleration and growth that needed that difficulty and the learnings from that.

Hmm.

to become the catalyst to allow us to do that. And I have no doubt that what we've learned, particularly over the last couple of years, I've developed elements of my character, surrendering, all the things that we've spoken about in the podcast, really much from day one about the process of going through what we get through, that he's going to serve us and serve me specifically exceptionally well. I know that to be true. It's just... You know, when, when a football team just like yours and mine lose in the last second of a game, you know, they're going to be better for it eventually. But right at that moment, it sucks and it hurts. the months, okay, you still haven't gone over it.

And the months after that too. No, no, season hasn't started yet. So, uh, it's, uh, it sucks. Years, years. I'm still painful from the first one lost. It's funny. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So there's the, sorry I was gonna say, it's the philosophical part. The philosophical part of it, go, yeah, it's rational, whatever. The part of me goes, man, I'm just so sick of it. But we know that the higher consciousness has to dictate and guide it because you just can't stay in your emotions because otherwise we'd be slaves to them and we'd never do anything.

Yeah, it's, you do need to reset, um, at some point and, it's not because it creates a, a negative feedback loop to yourself for confirmation bias that, know, things are always wrong. And I feel like I have that sometimes I could even, you know, whether it be winning in my own. You know, games or, know, um, or businesses that I'm doing or projects that I'm working on or supporting my team. feels like I'm just this close. and I just can't seem to win. And it's like, why is that? And then you start questioning it because if you live in that and you start creating a story, your brain just starts creating stories. And these stories are not necessarily true, but they create a story of going, well, you're always, you're not championship material or you're just, you're not a winner, you're second best. And that can easily be the story you create yourself. then all of sudden you prove yourself to that because you maybe don't win a game or. you know, you don't make something happen, you can get a funding or whatever. And then it's like, oh, there you go. See, that's proof. It's proof that I never get anything. I'm not that lucky or, know, and so these in, and this happens like over and over again, and you can see how people sort of get in this loop, especially younger kids too, as well, or even adults to say, well, I see I'm not that smart, or I'm not that good, or I'm not have that skill, or I'm not an entrepreneur, or I'm not a you know, I'm not an extrovert or, know, whatever excuses and you create this feedback loop that creates this confirmation bias in yourself, which actually hinders you to further away from what you actually try to do. Where some people have the other aspect of growth mindset, which is they find ways to use that story and turn that story into more positive somehow reset and rebalance it to

Yep.

for the positive. Now, some people are like, well, that's not necessarily true. That's just faking it. It goes, well, what's your options? Like you have an option to either have create a story that's going to hinder you continuously and go with the pathway going down. Or you have the other pathway is to create a story, which is just as valid, right? Which is still making stuff up, but that will actually make you better and move towards not perfection, but

Yeah.

for growth and that, but that's a choice. And that's choice we all have at any given moment in life is to have a choose, like you have literally choose two stories. And this is that, that whole, um, native American story around feeding the wolf, right? Like, do you feed the wolf? That's the wolf that the, the story, um, of negativity that will bring you down or the demise of you, or do you create, you feed the story. that will actually rise you and, these are just stories, whether they true or not, it's, it's make belief and, but you have that ability, the beautiful part of us of being human beings that we get to choose the stories you want to listen to. And that's a choice that we all have in any given moment in time. And that's what I think I want, you know, we've been really harping on it for people to understand from Mabie's side. It's like, nothing's gonna go perfect, but what's the story you're to create from this moment of this traumatic event or this win or this thing that didn't happen or whatever it is, it's like, what's the story you're gonna create? Because the story matters so much more than the outcome of whatever happened.

Yeah, and can be stories that can be empowering or disempowering. And I agree with you totally. You can decide what story you buy into and you believe. And that can elevate you upwards. mean, in sport, whenever you're watching that, one of the hardest things to ever shift or change is momentum. And when you see a team that's on a winning momentum, you can feel it. You know, even though they're behind, they've got the momentum. to come home with a wet sail, metaphorically speaking, sailor speak, because they've got momentum on their side. So there's something, it's all well and good when you're an in -front player and things are going great and you're celebrating the highs and highs and highs. The bigger challenge is how do you shift momentum when things aren't going to plan, where you're starting to feel the doubt, the uncertainty, the frustration, all those kinds of things. How do you still stay in the game and don't give up? And to me, that's always been the challenge and I agree with you. What you mentioned is what I actually do. have to I have to hijack the story that I'm buying into and give it an empowering one and become the hero of a different story because classic case in point, you know, we talk about sport. My AFL football team in Australia were zero and five of the first five weeks and they're getting hammered. by the in the press and they're like, they guys are no hope is they've got nothing going for them. The coach is terrible should be sacked. They've turned around the season after zero five to now be in the finals and have had the second best winning record beyond that point all season. And what's fascinating is they've been thumping teams in the last back end. So something shifted in them, you know, same same level of talent. as the start of the year, sure, everybody gets better, but they arrested the downward spiral and they were able to change the story and the narrative and the trajectory and the momentum that has now become self -fulfilling. And so now the expectation is they're going to get there and win. And I think that's the hardest thing for a lot of people. is turning the boat around, turning the story around from one that is downward spiraling to upward spiral.

Mmm. It's hard. It's super difficult, right? I've seen that with, with majority of teams. And I've seen that with yourself even like, you know, my, my team was the same thing last year where they were, they won five games in a row at the beginning. They were like, Oh my God, they're going to win at everything. And then they lost three games in a row after that. And then so they were five and three and they're like, Oh, then all the talks was like, Oh, this team doesn't work. And because it's the stories that people create, like the news, the media, and it gets in your head and you somehow got to learn to like ignore. the story, like toward the external noise and ask yourself, like, do we believe in ourself and unfortunate part is that downward spiral you talking about, it's really difficult to switch out of it when you're going down. It's not easy. Like it's easier to when things are kind of moving in your direction, right? And the momentum kind of swings. I remember today I was playing paddle and I was losing five games to two. And it's interesting the difference between four two and five two, like is a six game match, right? So, you know, first to six kind of thing. And so When we were four, two, if we won that match, it would have been four, three, but we lost that match. Now we're five, two. So now every game matters. We can't lose the game because we'll lose the whole set. And I remember like thinking, I'm like, don't get caught up. Don't get up. Even as much as I can tell myself that I I'm playing safer now. I'm not, I can't be as aggressive. I'm getting frustrated because it's almost over. You almost kind of, there's almost like this giving up energy, even though you don't want to, but like there's energetically. You're just like, what's the point? And now multiply that by number of players on a team. Right? You know, it, it, how do you control if you can't, if that's hard for one person, can you imagine a team of 50 people or 20 people, whatever the team, depending on the sport, how how that coach and that leader has to switch around even a guarantee that person, no how positive you are, it's gonna be difficult to not just only keep your head straight, focus on the fundamentals, but to actually know how to motivate the rest of the team. to not feeling that way. That's a very difficult job. And I think running a company and running a business is like that. It's not just about you, but it does rely on you because if you're the head of the company, you run this company and you manage this company, if your head is not in the right game, it's very, very difficult for you to motivate and inspire anybody. So it has to start with you. But then after that though, you still have to figure out a way, how do I actually manage everybody else? Right? How do I...

Hmm.

How can I able to shift the mentality, the motivation and inspire the rest of the team to not get caught into this death spiral? Massively difficult to do.

It's a great point you raised because if you own positions of leadership, you're also going through the same period as well. And so people are looking to you to go, hey, this is really scary. What do we do? And there's an element of authentic leadership where you can communicate that you're feeling those emotions as well. However, as the leader, you go, this is how I'm feeling. However, this is what we need to do.

Mm

I guess in those times, and just as you were saying that, that's what was coming through to me is that I think there still has to be an element of direction and decisiveness. It's just, if things are going not to plan, um, yes, there has to be an awareness and an honesty about where you're going on, but still having the, the where, where with all to actually go, okay, I get it. Things aren't great right now. This is how we're tracking. This is still the plan. The plan is still the plan. Let's work towards it. and course correct accordingly. I think when you're in free fall, when you've got nothing to steady against, that's a scary time. That's a scary place. And I think that that's where, you know, we can be forgiven for thinking that we're in free fall when we're not really. It's the perception that things are out of control. And in those moments, that was going to be the question that I was going to ask you if you had an answer for it. was if you're in the midst of that, what do you do to steady the ship? What do you do when you're in free fall?

Yeah, there's probably a couple of things that I would do. Two things come to mind. One is it's a time thing. So oftentimes when you're in free fall, you're only thinking in like in that moment of the free fall. everything gets compressed to what's actually happening just right in front of you. Most of the time, I'm not suggesting everything here, but most of the time, whenever you're in free fall, it's not actually life or death. It just feels that way, but it's actually not life or death. So let's just pick that scenario. We're not talking life or death situation, but you feel like your emotions and psychologically you're in free fall. So really, the first thing that I would do is press pause metaphorically, because I know time doesn't pause. But pull yourself out of the weeds and go high and really have a more of a top end level view overview of where you are in the timeline. hope that makes sense. Right. So it's metaphor, right? metaphorically, it's like, you basically press, like you're pulling yourself in from the weeds, like you're stuck in the forest and or weeds in front of you can't see anything. That's what freefall feels like you just keep on falling. So press pause from the freefall, you'll come back to this pain and frustration later. But if you just pull yourself up, and then now you're looking from above and go, here's the timeline, this where you're born. This is where you're heading. And this is just the moment in a blip in your timeline. So the reason why you do that is for just pure perspective. because sometimes when you're free falling, you feel like the world is against you and everybody's against you and you have no luck and nothing's working. But what you need to do is gain perspective of what's actually in this moment is not the bigger picture. I remember that had this happening once to me. I was in about second year university and I was taking a statistical course, stats, stats 201 or something like that at Waterloo. And just to kind of give you some context, I was actually really good at math. And stats usually typically I should be okay. And I was one of the smarter ones in the class, at least especially around my friends. So I was well known for that. And I remember one of my, we wrote this exam, just to test, like not a final exam, it was just like a midterm exam kind of thing. And he collected all our exams somehow. He was able to get access to all the exams. And Andrew was his name. And he basically said to me, goes, oh, he collected and he goes, I got some good news and bad news. We're like, oh, what's happened? Because one of us failed, right? It was four of us. And I remember saying, was it you? And he's like, no, was it you? No, was it you? Basically pointed to everybody else but me, right? I was back like 20 years old, okay? So just put that in context. And I think it's funny because it's just, that's who I was. I was just like, it was thinking, oh my God, like, what do mean? It was me, which is the unexpected answer, right? That's why I had to the context. And I was devastated. I never failed anything in my life.

Hahaha!

at that time, at least in terms of marks. And I remember thinking to myself, I'm like, this is devastating at that time. I'm like, oh my God, this is life, like life threatening in a way. But I had to really dig deep to go, I'm pretty sure this what I was thinking, which is pretty insightful at that time when you think about it. I'm like, this is one test, which is worth, sure, it out of 100, say, I failed it, which is worth. maybe 10 % of my mark, of one mark. So really I got a five out of 10 instead of an eight out of 10. over one course, three marks, which is one course out of eight courses I was probably taking that year, which is one year out of four years of university I was taking. And you see where I go. So was that, in that moment, the test felt like I'm a failure, I'm stupid. To gain that perspective and going, well, is it that bad? Like really, in my course, is everybody ever gonna ask me, what did you get in STAT 201?

Yep.

And it took that thought. That thought process may have taken, you know, maybe like 30 seconds or whatever, but it, but you need to go through that process. So that's one. And two, another, another analogy is that when you're in free fall, it feels like quicksand you're sinking deeper and deeper. And it feels like you're sinking so fast that you can't get ourself out of it. But sometimes you're worried about which direction should I go? How do I get myself out of this? And I think when you're in free fall or you're stuck in quicksand, my analogy is that it doesn't really matter what direction you're going. You just gotta get out. You just need to pick one direction, a direction, who cares? Get yourself out. And then once you're out, then worry about where you need to go next. Or maybe realizing, oh, I actually took myself backwards. Okay. But rather than overthinking it and go like, I don't know what to do now, and you actually inaction. is actually what's worse because you're just sinking and sinking, sinking further. When you're in that situation, you just need to get out, pick a direction to go for it, it doesn't really matter because you'll know that if that's right or wrong later through action, the response and the feedback will give you the idea of whether or not it's right or wrong. So those are two things that come to my mind. What about you?

I like those. I like those. I was just going to say that the perspective one makes sense. So you kind of going meta, you're kind of seeing yourself outside of the situation. And if you're watching somebody else going through it, you could go, hey, this is how it is. Whatever you could say, the logical pathway and solution and see that. But because you're in it, you can't always feel that. like the idea. Correct. That's what it is. It's just give it perspective.

Yeah. That's what coaches are for, by the way. The coaches give you the, you can't, yeah. Yeah. You can't read the bottle, the label of the bottle inside from inside the bottle. Right. So that's what a coach does is helps you from the outside. Sorry. I'm doing too much trouble. I just want to make sure that's.

You can't see it. Yeah, no, that's exactly right. That's exactly what happens. whenever you're going through challenging times, there's this perspective that psychologists talk about, which is called permanence, which is you think that it's always going to be this way. And that is the stressful part of it, where a really great reminder I always have is that the good times, they won't last forever and the bad times won't last forever. So you're going through this continuum of cycles where things are going great. And you're getting great outcomes, you're getting great reward for effort. And other times you're not. And that's the cycle of life. And, and when you're in the middle of the challenging times where you're not really sure what that is exactly what you just said is really helpful guidance and advice where you get to get grounded. And I like that the perspective of going, decide to go in a direction and follow that and follow that pathway to lead you where it is. And if it's not the way, then you can change that. in the temptation quite often be is once we're anxious and we're stressed, we're kind of trying multiple things and not really seeing any of those out. And in the end, we're just spinning our wheels and staying further and further in that quick sense analogy, is the one you've used as well, too. So I agree with you. One of the things that I've always found is trying to get into a resourceful state for me is that you may not.

Mmm, agreed.

be in a great situation, but you can always choose to be in a resourceful state. And if you're in a resourceful state, your chances of doing what you just said go up significantly. If you're in an unresourceful state, you're going to be locked into that downward spiral that just escalates and makes things a lot worse. So for me, one of the first things that I do in addition to what you've just said is try to get grounded, get centered, get present and and ensure that I'm in the most resourceful state because then I've down -regulated the stress response. I've opened my mind up to possibilities I can think of clearly.

Well, can you explain to people how you how do you get into resourceful state or give some examples of, getting there? Because it makes sense to me, but I just want to make sure that people hear exactly how to do that.

Yep. Yeah, no, it's a good, it's a good point. And you're probably right. It's something that we do naturally. And, um, probably the easiest way that I can explain it is a mantra that I use and the steps that go with that. So I can, I can, I can talk about that. So one of the, one of the, the, the mantra that I use is what's called get grounded, get centered, get present, take a deep breath, um, feel your power going around, going ready.

You're muted for some reason.

Hello, hello? Am I back? Hello, hello, hello. Can you hear me now?

control.

I can hear you. Oh.

can hear you. Okay, there you go. can hear you now. Is that okay now? Yup.

Is that okay now?

It's weird. All right, anyways, let me.

Can you hear us repeating?

You can hear me. Yeah. You can hear me. Okay. You hear in the echo.

Hello, Yeah, yeah, I can hear you. But I'm just hearing the echo. Yeah.

You can't press pause, can you? Okay, give me one second. I gotta get something here.

Not on the recording.

Thank you, one second.

Hello, hello.

You're gonna still hear me. me All right.

Hello? Okay, not hearing the echo. Can you hear me?

Yeah, I can hear in your AirPods for where came from. I lost control of my mouse, so which I couldn't do anything in the pause.

Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. So you can hear me. can hear you. Okay. So we should let the team know around about the leading up to the 40 minute mark. We just need to let them know that obviously we need to edit that section out. So I can continue on from where we were. So you asked me, Jim, what do you normally do with that? And I'll just carry on from there. All right. Yep.

Yes. Yep. We just didn't pause. So. Okay. Okay. Yep. OK, so let's go on 4220. Three, two, one.

Yeah. So what I do, Lawrence, it's a mantra that I use that I found has worked really well for me. And the essence of the mantra is get grounded, get centered, get present, look straight ahead, take a deep breath, feel your power go and ready. So I'm going to break that down. So get grounded basically means I have this vision in my mind. You know, when we're wobbly, I have this vision of getting grounded. So I've got like I'm feet I'm the future or the past, you're thinking about this moment. So it's a really good way of decreasing the stress response. Looking straight ahead is like a reminder to focus on the prize, the vision, keep focused on what happening, taking a deep breath. We know slows down the basically the primal brain and helps you helps you get karma. So that's really helpful. Get sent to get protected. Feel your power. It's like start burning the engines, get the engines going like in a rocket and then go and ready. And to me, that ensures that I, if I get knocked off my center, if I get a bit wobbly, I have trained myself not to act, not to buy into the story and the crap and the BS that I may be going through in mind at that time, because that's an unresourceful state. My whole game is to get back to the center as quickly as possible. That's it. I defer making any decisions. I defer taking any action. The only strategy and the only game is to get back to center.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

quickly as possible and from then that's when I'm in a resourceful state that's when I like.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's, that's beautiful. And I think that, know, the, answer to, know, to, when people are trying to question or not, I mean, that's perfect. Like I love the steps there because there's exactly, you know, how to get there. And I think people, what they need to understand is like being resourceful, right. Is it's almost the very similar analogy we talked earlier about stories, right? So you can either create stories that disempower you will create stories and empowering you being resourceful is

That's pretty much the synthesis of it.

creating the mental, physical, and emotional state of being to solve problems in those situations versus about being in a position of physical, mental, and emotion to not allow it to solve anything because you're basically thinking of yourself as a victim. And so being resourceful in what you're saying is like how, you you gave specific techniques to how to transform yourself from a victim to a victor, right? And that's... because that story you tell yourself, grounding yourself and being present, that allows you to have a chance at being victorious. Whereas the story of being a victim has no resourcefulness and you basically surrender completely to the process. And that's the difference of, I think, what you're trying to say is becoming resourceful.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, lot of the, that, that those action steps are equally applicable. I mean, you can be applied if you're on a sporting field, it can be applied if you need to have a tough conversation with somebody. And what it means is that get grounded, get said to get present. Basically it could be get, get into your heart space, feel compassion, you know, uh, do all that. And to me it's, you know, I got off a call a little while ago where someone needs to set up for some tough conversations and the, The starting point has to be compassion because if it's about hurt, it's about anguish, it's about setting old scores, you're never actually going to get to a true connection and communication. so to me, I love this because it reminds me that the power comes in the ability to stay grounded in control. And when things aren't, that's when the problem starts.

Yeah, you know, it's funny because you're talking about tough, I had to have a difficult conversation yesterday. One of the tough one. And I really didn't know how to actually have had two conversations in the last two days was I was put in the situation where I had to go through that and exactly right. I remember thinking to myself, I'm like, and in this, feeling I'm the reason why I don't bring this up is because the natural tendency. for me at least, and I'm sure this is what most people experience is when they have to have those tough conversations, is actually avoidance is the clear path. The most logical, the most comfortable, and the most... sensible path for any of us to do is just to just ignore it, it go away eventually and or just hope and pray that it's gonna go away. And that's exactly what you were talking about is like that actually isn't resourcefulness because it's just you're just hoping and praying. And I remember both occasions I had to like admit conversations and also preparation for one of the conversations. I had to get into this mindset of going, you gotta do this no matter what. So you either ignore it longer and make it worse or do I actually just approach it? And so then all of a sudden I just had to do exactly what you just said, get grounded, be present, be compassionate, being understanding with true intention, have honesty, integrity of not wanting to hurt the person but the reality is reality and how do I communicate that the best? And then answers, I mean, sure, the answers were, you it's not fantastic because it's just hard conversations. But the reality was that I was way more resourceful in that situation because I knew I had to confront it. And the outcome was actually better than I imagined. I didn't go through with what I thought I had to do because I was able to find a solution mid conversation. that actually works out for a win -win -win situation for everybody. That I wouldn't have had if I went into this conversation just trying to hide from it. And that is the beauty of resourcefulness is what you talked about. It's like I was able to put myself in a position to be resourceful and the answers did come during that conversation that allowed me to redirect the outcome that I probably wouldn't have had if I wasn't being resourceful.

Hmm. Yeah, and that's beautiful. That's great. That's straight away. You can see the impact of our decisions and controlling the narrative and being able to direct the intention and all the things that you talked about. guess it's a difference in the theme of this topic was, I'll be happy when this, if you're not doing this, it's a case I'll be happy if, and I'll be happy if I don't have to have this conversation. But the reality is that it actually gets worse.

Yes.

And you're not actually solving and correcting anything. You're just deferring things. So you're not actually going to be happy. You're just postponing an issue, a challenge, a feeling to another time. And because you haven't addressed it, you actually won't get that outcome that you're looking for anyway as well. So I think that that's what, that's what I've learned is to appreciate and embrace the situation and If I'm really, really clear on why I'm doing what I'm doing, then find and muster up what within me needs to show up to meet the situation by that mantra that I shared. I think that find, I hope that finds me, sorry, I'll start that again. I find that helps me a lot. So that's what I've had to do particularly in the last few days.

Hmm. And the other thing too is if you don't approach these to go and do the confrontation work in terms of like going after it and hope and instead you just hope and pray they'll go away, you don't grow yourself. Like that's the thing that you miss, right? And that's what we've been talking about. You miss that growth. You miss the change that happens. But not only that is that you then never get to experience that new version of you. on how you approach all the situations beyond that point. And so therefore you lose out on all the gains from that perspective as well. But you never see that because you're so worried about the thing, the weed that's in front of you right now and you choose not to confront it. And then, you you become a victim and just hope it goes away. I mean, we all know that inevitably there's certain situations that you have to confront and you have to live with the consequences if you don't. you also have to live with the consequences when you do. um, and that's where we're sort of going through helping you understand there's methods and ways it's not going to be comfortable, right? It's like, it's telling you to work out. like, well, listen, it's going to be painful. it's no, no, no workouts ever comfortable, but that's the point. But you know, we can, but he can give you strategies to make it more, more comfortable, but it's still painful. still difficult. And, but it's like helping you, how do you navigate through that process? And that's, that's the thing that you know, what we've been talking about can help you through. So I hope that you guys get a lot of value out of this. Is there any lasting thoughts or, you know, things that you want to kind of say about this topic?

Yeah. No, I'm good. I actually, it's funny. I feel better at the end of the conversation than at the start of it. No question. And I think it helped me to know that, you know, the commitment that we have in recording the podcast fuels me. I feel great about that, you know, and I feel really good about it. And amongst the challenges that, you know, I've worked through and look, they're not, they're not in their first world problems, right? So they're not, they're not I'm correctable, but it's more the, knew that getting on and having a chat and talking to you about this is something that fuels me and I feel great about. I knew I would feel better as a result of that. true to word, it's definitely happened. And I think I just had to get past the initial resistance that we've talked about wanting to talk about it when all I just want to do is just go man, I'm over it. I just don't want to say anything, but I found that that ability to share the frustrations in a transparent way has actually been really helpful. in as much as it may help somebody, it's certainly helped me just talking it through.

I'm looking forward, I'll be happy when the next episode drops because then we can see the other side of it and see how he actually, how Jim reacts and all the benefits he got out of it. this...

You Yeah, I'll be wearing a kilt knot. I'll be no, it's just but it was it was was a was a flat spot. And we're taking people on a journey with us. And I think that that was if it was any other type of a podcast, I think we could have naturally said, listen, I'm not not it's not working for me. But in the true spirit of what we've started, and if I sent you a message from the last week, I went, hey, this is what's going on. you just all you said was wabasabi. And it's true man, it's like life imitating art imitating life. So that's what it was

I'm glad you showed up today and I'm glad we did we had this conversation because I think it really will help a lot of people guys that this is Wabi Sabi the art of imperfection is what its life is about and I hope that you've enjoying our journey through Jim's Jim's journey I guess living life through Jim's journey and and I'm sure he's gonna impart some more wisdoms to us on the following episodes upcoming to kind of talk us on the other side when you know the process and the changes that are ongoing and and they also the continual saga of all the imperfections that will be, that's ahead of us that we just don't know and can't see just yet. So until the next episode, this is Jim and I, and this is Jim's last episode from Spain for now, and he will be in a different country, different aspects. So we're looking forward to seeing that. Talk to you soon. Bye.