Why Starting Again is so HARD

Welcome to another episode of Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. as you can tell for those people watching this video or the podcast and listening or not listening, you're to see that Jim has a different background. which means, which means if you were here to the last episode and if you weren't here, then we're to fill you in. Jim has moved countries again, and this is exciting news. So Jim, give us an update. What's going on?

Yeah. Sure, well Lawrence you're right, if you're watching this it looks like a screen saver or background but it's not actually. I'm in a hotel in Edinburgh and we did move and we moved I think it's about five days ago and settling in and this is probably the first time in six months I've actually worn a jumper and long pants and yeah and the only other time was when I visited Scotland for a series of lectures so twice in the last six months. I've worn long pants, except for when I've gone out for dinner or something like that. So I'm wearing a jumper for anybody who's just listening. And that's really been my last few days. And interestingly, Lawrence, if these are released in the order in which they're recorded, and sometimes they're not, last week was the recording of me being in Spain, I should say. And it was pretty tough recording. were just... Digesting it just a moment ago to actually say look that was probably my real low point I think I was really frustrated. We'd gotten the permission to to go but I wasn't feeling the enthusiasm of it and I'm on the other side of that now and and it's amazing what a few thousand kilometers Some sleep and some momentum in your life does for you because I certainly feel a lot better than I last time

Oh, come on. You know, it's about the haggis and the haggis giving you some extra energy.

I haven't actually, I haven't had the haggis yet. I don't want to be disrespectful. just, you how you look at things and go, I can't wait to try that. It hasn't come for haggis with me just yet. So look, it might be an acquired process for me. Yeah. Haven't tasted it. never said. Okay. Yeah. I'm not big on that either.

Yeah. Oh really? Well for me it's Vegemite, so... I don't think I've ever tasted a Vegemite and yes, I call myself Australian. I'm embarrassed, but at the same time it's, you know, it is what it is. So listen, I think this, this is a great episode to talk about, you know, um, changes and not just change itself, but in terms of why it's so difficult for people to, you know, starting again, uh, why is it so hard for most people? Cause it does impact. I think that's the question that most people don't ask because when you do ask that question. It changes the way you frame things in your life and then it changes the outcome and the decisions and behaviors of how people are. So we're gonna talk about like why is this so hard for most people? Because on the outside, between you and I, like over the last two years, we've moved three times, right? Three different countries. And it's amazing for some people, but at the same time for you, it seems like, man, Jim, you've just done it. You're just like, I moved, crossed halfway around the world, and then... two years later, you moved again. And like, and it seems like so simple. And I hope that, but I know it's not so simple. And then most people can see if you listen to our last podcast on how raw and how real the challenge actually is, but you do it anyways. And we talked about doing hard work as part of our mantra. And I love for it to kind of maybe dissect a little bit. We'll start with you, Jam. Like, was it easy? Was it hard for you during this move now that you've done it a couple of times already? And if it was hard, What were the things that going on through your mind that made it so difficult?

Yeah. Well, the short answer is it was both easy and hard at the same time because easy to say I'm moving. Yes, this is a step forward and I'm perfectly aligned with this and this is part of what we need to do. So that part was easy. The decision was easy. The hard part was the unraveling and the process that involved getting there. So that this took months and months and months and We are here in Scotland, but I still have to go back to Spain to organize the final parts of the visa. it's not, it's, it's not totally complete. And the hard part is about it's as much the mindset and the, and how you restructure things, because I was sitting on the plane flying across actually, and there was a sense of closure and excitement about new beginnings, but it was just more the case of, man, you know, I'm going to have to start a whole lot of these things again. Insofar as a lot of things, again, it's like establish different networks and start again and turn on power and all these things that aren't difficult in and of themselves. But when you're at a capacity where your threshold has probably been met, they just felt really tough. So that's what I had to cycle through. And these first few days have really been about just getting grounded again, because neither of us wanted to.

Hmm.

act impulsively and just quickly for the sake of that. So we just went, no, we need to be deliberate in our actions, slow it down, get yourself grounded and rested, and then launch and start again. So that's the process we've gone through.

Yeah, so I think if I could divide it into like three components, we can dive into each one of these components that makes it hard for people to start again. You know, it doesn't always have to be a move. It could be starting a new job, could be starting a new relationship, could be starting a new career, a new business, new project, all these things. I think there's probably three categories of course you can think of on the top of my head. Like number one is usually it's a self -decision, right? Like the decision of making that choice is hard in itself. So because... you want something on the other side, but then you know that all the things you have to change, all the things you have to become, that kind of scares people from even making that first step. I think that the second, like for you, that would seem to be simple because we talked a lot about that and Jimmy, you shared who you are, essentially who you are. And I think that goes to show the type of person and you are a man of action. And so you fall in line with that. So I think it's very clear for anybody who knows you. that part was an easy decision for you. But for a lot of people, they get stuck on that part. I think if you get stuck on that part, it makes it really hard to go to the second thing. And then I think the second barrier is what you sort of mentioned, is all the logistical things that have to happen in order for the new things to present itself. So for example, like in your case, was like visas and the paperwork. When we moved from Australia to Europe, it's like, how do you deal with taxes, visas and... you know, what happens, how do you structure your companies? And you know, learning a new language, like those are all the logistical things that has that get in the way and usually get people get bogged down. The second, you know, part that gets them bogged down from actually starting something new. And I think the third category is the unknown, all the things that you haven't thought about. And this is where most people would think of like the worst case scenario and all the things that, you know, they will make, they just kind of jump and catastrophize everything here to make it so scary. that they go, well, is this better if I just stay where I am?

Yep. Yeah. And you're right. It's, if you allow yourself to think about what you're going to have to do, I don't know that you do it. There'll be times where it's just way too difficult. But to me, it's, I guess it's once I started the process, it was like, I'm going to see it through. I'm going to see it through. I've got to do whatever it takes. And, and, you know, for, for us, it was like, we started this visa process back in January. to try and get our visa organized in the UK. And that part is still not complete. the actual part of expanding our business operations into the UK, we're still waiting, haven't heard back. So we had to find up another alternative strategy. So I agree with you. If you have got, if you're comfortable in the role and the identity and the situation, the routines you are, something has to shift in you to decide to deconstruct that, particularly if it's going well. to actually pick it up, move it around and go somewhere else. And I think the difficult part for us was that we didn't have the luxury of show and tell and easing into it and just pacing ourselves. Like we literally had to be in Scotland like two weeks ago before we even got here. And so we had to hit the ground, but in the same sort of ways, maintain a smooth landing, but then also get running straight away. And so that was a contingent thing is we just didn't have the luxury of just easing into it totally, but we just didn't want to get overwhelmed.

You know, I find that when we do start something new, the one of the biggest challenges is sometimes we overanalyze. We over calculate and we over emphasize things that probably doesn't don't matter. So I remember thinking about, so this is going back maybe 10 years ago when I happened to be in Europe. I happened to sell my house while we're in Europe somehow. And, and I remember how to go like now we're homeless and we sold our house in Perth and then we going. So I guess we're moving to Sydney. And so we had to scramble to try to find a house. Like house is really important to us. And now we have to figure out like, how do I do this? Like, how do I, you how do we buy this house? And I remember, you know, what, you know, most people, think I've told this story before, but the summary is, is that I bought, we bought our house in Sydney while we're still in Europe. So the four weeks we were here in Europe, we sold our house and bought a house in Sydney into a city that we have no, like never. Well, we've been, but we never like lived in it and in an area that we really don't know. And we bought it online, uh, had a friend videotape it. So, I'm telling you the story because a lot of us, a lot of people think we're crazy. And when we did move in the house, the first time I watched saw this house was when the day we moved in. Uh, and there was like little flaws, right? There's things like, Oh, I didn't see that in the video or didn't expect that. Cause a video only shows, you know, a certain part of it. But in the end, we actually said to ourselves, you know, it's funny though, because if we did come in person to actually see this house, we would have picked up all these little things and that may have created enough doubts for us to say, I'm not sure. And sometimes that's what I mean by overanalyzing. Sometimes when you go through the fine tooth comb of, know, this is such a big life decision and then you start to like look through all these little things, you actually talk yourself out of the decision in its first place. And I think that that can be a very problem. problematic if you want to start something. think sometimes we like you just like you said, you just have to go with the flow. Sometimes you just have to trust and then work out the details later. I'm not saying go blindly, but also to don't have to go in with a microscope.

Yeah, totally, totally. And if you micro, it's like a micromanaging type of a scenario. I took a lot of comfort from, I think, hearing a lot of titans of industry who have got many thousand employees and multiple business structures. And they basically say, if I had to take care of every single detail, I mean, what's the likelihood and chance of somewhere in some operation, someone's mucking up and it's not life threatening. I have to just.

Mm

go with that process. And if I focus on the absolute minutiae of details, I'd never get anything done. So for me, it was like, what's the biggest thing that we have to keep under control? And for us, it was like, okay, I've got to find someone to sleep for the next week. And I've to be able to have internet capabilities in order to keep operations going. Tina's got to be able to get to the college now where she's also working. So that were the three most important factors. From there, you then go, okay, what's the next circle of important things that we have to take care of? And by the end of it, you kind of graduate outwards until you get the specifics. But it's a life under construction some ways when you do it this way. And you have to embrace the uncertainty of it. But you also have to, you get better at focusing on the most important things. And you really go, what are the most important things? go, if my family,

Yeah.

my health, my food, I'm good, then I've got that covered. And I'm like at 75%. And I'm okay with that. From there, the rest of it is detail. But if I started the other way around, yeah, I just basically short circuit everything.

Yeah, so what you're doing is saying you're just trying to simplify like, you know, to core elements and then solve those problems first. And then you worry about the next level and then kind of go up, you know, above rather than trying to solve all the problems and make everything perfect before it actually happens. And this is where we, I, I'm guilty of this. I'll put my hand up in this. So like recently, just a couple of days ago, you know, I have a book of flight. I'm doing a talk up in like Northern England, like in Sheffield or something like that. Right. And I'm trying to flight, fly, trying to fly on a flight out of here to get up there. And there's Like the closest one is the Manchester, which is an hour and a half drive, but it was three times the price, stupidly ridiculous. I can literally probably fly to like Canada for that same amount of price, which is dumb. It's only a two and a half hour flight. Or I fly to like London or one of those London airports, but you know, but it's a three hour drive and I'm sitting there analyzing, like mapping it out and like looking at all these airport and mapping it out. And really I was shaving myself like 10 minutes here, 15 minutes here and that's... you know, in England, who knows what's actually, you know, the right map. And I said to myself after a while, I'm like, what am I doing? Like I'm literally spending hours trying to figure out what the best route and try to maximize. But literally I'm not maximizing my time right now or can just go, you know what? They're all pretty much the same. Just pick one, deal with it, done, decision made. Let's move on to bigger, more important things of the day rather than trying to sit there and trying to figure out. And I'd have been really playing on my mind around decision making.

Paris.

you know, this is something very similar to starting sometimes. like, sometimes you just need to just go for it, just decide on, decide, make decision on small things rather than, you know, analyzing and agonizing over small decisions. I would, my main point is that if, if it's difficult, you know, oftentimes we talk about starting something big, like new job, new career, new relationship and so forth. But if you don't have practice in starting something small, like, hmm, what am I going to, what new? gym routine am I gonna do today? Right? Or what, you know, can I start a conversation with someone, you know, today? Like, if you can't do that, there's really highly probability that it's probably gonna be very difficult for you when you increase the level of difficulty in a big decision. So I think one of the things that to in order to make, you know, starting over again on starting anything, it's important to actually learn to start things that are small. take small risk, learn how to do that, and it will give you the confidence over time to take those bigger risks.

Yeah. And you're right Lawrence. mean, not everybody has to do what you and I have done. one, no one, no one in, let's be honest, no one in their right mind would do what you and I have done. What I've learned though, is that for me it's, they do get easier. They do get easier the more you do it. You get into the habit of taking decisive steps and bold steps. And you know, when you're talking about, you know, having to manage the, accommodation and everything. I go through phases as well too. I do. And I, and I catch myself and I go, Hey dude, is this really making a difference? Or you just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic? You know, like what are you really, are you really making a difference here? And so like we talked about it a few weeks ago and I was telling you, we're heading off and you know, up until two days before we came to Scotland or no, sorry. The day before is when we organize accommodation here. All right. And people go, oh, so you've got everything organized? No, I don't. And it's like, hang on, how long? So we were literally living day to day. And the moment that we had things planned, we then booked a ticket and got out. that, I'm going to be honest, it's stressful. It's not, it's not comfortable. It's not, don't do it willingly, but it was just situations that had to be done. But like we said, we focused on the major things and got into the habit of taking the next step and then the next step and the next step. And, but I think it was because we were already committed to the process that we had to just embrace what showed up. It wasn't that we said, cause I would have loved to have done what you could ever do and planned it, but it just wasn't logistically possible. If everything, if we, if we, the way we had originally planned it, we were moving to Scotland a month earlier, we had a place that we were going to go into and that had to be, you know, we missed out on that one because we just couldn't commit to it. So.

Yeah.

It was about being adaptive in the moment as well.

I really do think that the biggest hurdle for most people that make it scary to start anything new or make a change is usually because they overthink things and they try to overanalyze everything what we've been talking about. I'll give you a case of an example. There's a person I knew who's from Australia who's thinking about coming to Portugal and, you know, asked me a ton of questions. You know, I try to go through that process and you know, like what school, how do you do this? What school is this good for you? I'm scared of this. And they even came over, like they even came over to visit and took them all around. for an entire day, you know, go through the school systems. And the thought process for them was so difficult because it's almost like they had to have everything perfectly aligned, you know, in order for them to make the decision. And I saw that that could be, I mean, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but we need to also see the hindrance of that, right? I'm not saying again, what Jim, you just said, you don't have to be like us. But when I came over, we didn't even think about school. We didn't have a school for the kids. But it's amazing when I talk to people, Like we were probably the only people that I know of that I've spoken to who didn't align the school first. Now I'm not saying I'm right. I'm like literally just saying how different we were in the approach. We like I care. It was funny the other day about CrossFit. Like I literally looked up where the CrossFit gym was going to go, where I was going to go to before. And, and I knew exactly what gym I was going to go to before I even looked at school. I know that sounds silly and crazy, but you know, it was a bit selfish, but I knew like at worst case, you know, we're just homeschooling kids or whatever.

Yeah.

But for this person who was trying to fly over and they couldn't make a decision, I guarantee they still haven't made a decision and school's already started. because of that, it's like they kind of, don't go, at least they came and visit. At least they thought about it, but they knew, I just knew from basically talking them, they probably couldn't pull the trigger just because it was like, but is this going to be perfect? And that what you said at the last word you said was adaptation. Like if people are thinking about aligning everything to be perfect, they're not allowing themselves to adapt to different situation. If they arrive or if things don't, or the environment situation don't fall exactly how they have it in their head, they think of that as failure. And that really puts them in a back foot from allowing it to flourish into something that is a success. And I think that could be a massive hindrance when you're waiting for perfection before you actually start something.

Yeah, totally. And it's funny how you say about the CrossFit Lawrence, because as you were saying that, I did research that before we moved to Barcelona, that we had a 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu school in Barcelona and there was, I went, okay, honey, we can go now. And see, I checked it here and there's one in Glasgow, right? At least I thought, and then I checked out and that school's shut down. So there's no 10th Planet school in Scotland at all. And so the first few days,

Calling is a calling.

Well, that's, that's actually, was, that was cause it going to get to. So I went and checked out a couple of other schools and I'm like, they're okay. They're not great. So in the short term, uh, I'm going to have to fly to Barcelona to do training camps and then join another gym to keep myself, uh, you know, training and active. But suddenly I've gone, dude, if you want this, you've got to, you've got to get behind getting your own school up and running. So it's like, I wasn't, I wasn't looking for that, but suddenly if I want to continue to do that. That's what I've got to do. And I think that's the process of you don't always see it as it's coming. You don't anticipate it, but you take that first step and then you suddenly go, well, this isn't great. The first migrants who flew from Europe to Australia went, the Italians, they came in there and went, this is really cool, but we haven't got olive oil. We haven't got garlic. So what did they do? They created whole industries around that coffee and whatever. And so the multicultural nature of Australia now is built on for a lot of people, migration of people from Europe. Asia and the like, and you look at how many opportunities and how many, how much diversity they have now, because people went, Hey, I came to this new land. It's amazing, but they don't have Jasmine. Well, they don't have this or whatever. they found an industry and I found a solution. So that's what I finally have to do.

Yeah. Well, there's a, well, there's a great story. Back in the 1960s, I believe it was a Mexican or an expat in Mexico, you know, wanted to play tennis and built a tennis court in their backyard. But unfortunately the backyard wasn't big enough. And so they built a smaller version of a tennis court and they had walls in the tennis court. And that's how the origin of paddle started. Right. That's the, you know, the sport that I love is like paddle started with someone trying to build a tennis court, but it wasn't big enough and they created this paddle thing. And then I think someone from Argentina or Spain, a friend visited them and just freaking loved the sport and then brought it back to their country. And that's how it spread it, you know, like 40 or 50 layers. Now it's booming because of someone just going, huh, can't fit it in. Let's make something new. Right. And that's, that's the entrepreneurial or at least the insight that we can all take to go on. What can we create? And if it can't, it It can't be done or something's not there. What can you do to create it?

Yeah. And that's, and that's obviously the, the thoughts that I'm entertaining. you know, before I have looked for a house, Bettina went and looked at before Bettina looked for a house and it's about aligned in your priorities. I've went and checked out three jujitsu schools already. Um, cause that's, that's on my radar. Cause that is what helps me operate and helps me be me. And, um, you know, that's, that's just what it'll take. That's what it'll involve, but that's what, and I think that coming back to our usual thing, what is it that stops people from. from changing it's that it's the what's the chance that I go there and it's going to be worse than where I am now or what if I go there and I don't have what I want and it's like okay I get it that's a risk but you're going to get something that you haven't got now and so which of the two would you prefer was the pain of change or the pain of same and to me that's what I've been prepared to step through into that unknown because I don't know what's

Hmm.

what's possible and sure, sometimes you feel like it's okay, gee, it would have been good if that was like, but you just, I don't like living in the past or in regret. I've just got to go, okay, I'm here now. I got to make the most of it. That's it.

Hmm. Well, I think that, know, you highlighted a point is, is your fear of living in regret is more painful than for you to stay, uh, to take a chance at something. like the pain ratio is, is, is wired differently in your brain. And I think that's important for people to understand is that you just got to look at it from that perspective is that, you know, there's going be pain of doing something new, but there's also pain. of the regret if you don't do it and always asking what if. And I think the people who do start a lot of things or change a lot of, keep on changing and adapting is because they have wired themselves in the decision -making process to recognize that that pain of regret is way worse than the pain of doing something new and looking like a failure, looking like a fool. And that's the thing of what we talk about failing forward. Like I think it's important to... know that we're gonna, we could potentially fail here. And this is the perfection thing, we'll bring it back in. Perfection, like trying to get being perfect, meaning like you're trying to create a path to ensure that you don't fail. Whereas the people that do make the starts and changes and all these things that they're willing to do is because they're willing to fail. And they're not looking for perfection because they know that there's a high probability of failure here. But even if they do fail, they're gonna fail forward, meaning that they're going to... be better off because they failed. They're to be a better version of themselves. They're not, and there's another saying I'd use is fail firm, which means that even if you fail, you still land on your feet. Like you're not risking your life here. You know, they can, you know, for you, like if Scotland doesn't work out for whatever reason, I got, you know, knock on wood or whatever you want to do here. But if, if the Scotland doesn't work, which actually Spain is perfect example, Spain didn't work out the way you hoped it to. Probably that's not the path. That's what you imagined two years ago. But the reality is you go, you can always, I'm guarantee you're a thought this was like, well, I can always go back to Australia. It's not like Australia is gonna reject you because you left them, right? Or what you're doing is you're going, well, what's next? Like, where can we go next? But I guarantee you, Embra wouldn't have been a door opening unless you opened the door to Spain first, right?

Yeah, exactly. Because you entertain that thought as a possibility. And interestingly, know, when what we moved to Spain here, predominantly for Bettina and her opportunity to work at the car practical. So that was the main driver for it. And when we got here, when she stepped back away from the school, it was the case of, you know what, we can live anywhere. Where do you want to go? What do you want to leave? To me, it was like if you turn left, it's going to be great. If you turn right, it's going to be great. So the defining factor about Scotland was, do you want to do this? Because if you don't, we'll go double down in the direction that we're already going. But that was the catalyst that led us to get to Scotland was how important to you is this path that you have chosen. And when Bettina said, this is really important to me, was like, okay, right, that's what we're doing. And that's what we followed. we could have actually gone anywhere. We could have actually gone anywhere. I am grateful that I have choice. No question about that. I have a capacity to be able to do that. But fundamentally we, we chased our joy and our vision and our purpose. And we luckily, both of us were mobile enough to be able to go. We will go wherever that takes us. And it had to be Scotland. I would not choose cold weather willingly over where I was. Right. I wouldn't do that. So.

Absolutely not.

Yeah, so, but, but, but that can't, for me, that couldn't be a deciding factor because that would have been the detail of getting out in the way, like missing the big stuff. It's like, why, what are you here to do? What are you doing that for? And how is it going to fulfill you? The rest of it is, okay, do you have to wear jumpers to do that or not? Or a scarf? No big deal. It's really, that's just the micro details in my mind. And that would have stopped us if I'd You know, like I said to you, it wouldn't have been my first choice of location for weather, but that was lower down the list because there were other priorities in place.

Well, this goes to show that it's not that whether it was an important factor or not, right? I think it's more the hierarchy of values in your particular decision at this particular time. Like if you had a choice between like, you know, the weather in Edinburgh and Scotland versus Spain, of course, if that was a standalone decision, of course, Spain, right? However, you're the priority and the value of, you know, Bettina taking on this position and the joy and the fulfillment and the legacy that she's gonna create because of this role outweighs the enjoyment of the Spain weather. Of course, in that sense, it's gonna override that. And I think this is what most people forget. They're trying to make a decision on equal values of everything. And the reality is that no, Jim's not saying that he doesn't care about weather. I think he does care about weather. We'll talk to him in about a few months time, but the reality is that the hierarchy, yeah, a weeks. But the hierarchy changes that dynamics, right? Because it does matter, not, you know, it does not matter as much compared to all the other values that are stacked over that. You know, if you had a choice and that's the key element is that we have to rank our

few weeks Lawrence, few weeks.

values systems. We have to kind of go from top to bottom. It's not all the same. Sure, there's some values are probably similar, but I think to make decisions to start things, you do have to create the right value system accordingly.

Yeah, I think you've articulated it really well there because that really was it's the hierarchy is it's the most important of a list of important things. And you can be at peace with that because you know, you've gone with your highest ones. And that's really what it was. And, you know, you does, as you said, does it always work out exactly the way you think it will? No. And has, has it been a basically a setback or a failure? I don't see it that way. I look at it as like you said, That had to happen in order to open up the next step. And I think what stops a lot of people is, you know, that think of what if I do this and it doesn't work out? And I've, I've, I've had to change that narrative for myself. because I, you know, I'm susceptible to that thinking as well too, but I've had to change it to go, what will happen if it works? What will happen if. that opens up another opportunity and you wouldn't have gotten to step two or three unless you went through the first door. So I think that that's how I see it. And you're right. You can't crystal ball anything. don't know how everything will work out. You can set an intention and go, this is the general direction I want to go. But situations change. Opportunities present themselves. to me, when opportunities in the universe start knocking on my door, I listen.

Well, I think it also in probabilities too as well is the thinking that, you if I'm to make a decision or I want to start something, I always think about, of course it's easy to think about all the great possibilities of how it becomes positively influencing or what all the positive outcome would be. But the thing is also too, is, is that I do ask the question, like, what if it doesn't work? And I usually, I actually go down that rabbit hole and going, okay, well, if that doesn't work, how would it play out? Like what would I do in that scenario? And, but I'm I think what stops people is that they don't think of solutions at that point. They just kind of going, oh, if that doesn't work, oh man, that would be the end of the world. And they just stop there. And so that becomes like the dead end. Whereas I think what we think about is like, okay, what if that doesn't work? Then we go, okay, well, if that doesn't work, then we would do this. So right away, the brain is already trained and the mind's already trained to finding solution to that problem.

Yeah, good one.

if that problem does arise and then I guarantee there'll be a problem. Well, if that doesn't work, then what else will we do? And then you kind of go down that rabbit hole. You don't have to go too far, but you go far enough to gain that confidence to recognize like, okay, well, we've already went through the worst case scenario and the worst case scenario would be this and I would do this. If that doesn't work, then I'll do this. And it's actually, there's a great video, I think Tim Ferriss did on YouTube. I think he did it over at TED Talk, which is called Fear Setting. fear setting. And fear setting is really like one of the first things he does is to list out of all the reasons why this wouldn't work, right? Basically listing out your worst case scenario because what you wanna do is to list out all those worst case scenarios so that you know what they are and your brain would actually find solutions to those answers which counterintuitively gives us the more confidence that's actually not gonna be as bad as we think.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I like that. And you're 100 % correct because it was only just when you said that, that I realized that even back with our teams, we would say, okay, here's the scenario. I'd never want you to come to me and tell me what the problem is. I want you to come to me. Let me know what's what problem we have, come up with three solutions and then we'll pick the best option. And so I, it was already pre wired into all of us to go.

And if, if you don't do that, it will stop you.

Problem solutions, problem solutions. at every stage, like same thing with you. It's like, I don't set myself up for disappointment for failure. What I do is I've got contingencies. I'm still going all in, but I've got backup plans. And so I'm not risking the farm on everything on the roll of a dice. I've basically gone, I'm in, but you know what? If this doesn't work out, I've got the, it's not that I'm tentative. It's not that I'm holding back. It's like I'm going all in. However, I've got a backup plan. I've got plan B, C, D and E. And what gives me confidence to go into plan A is that I've thought about what's going to happen. If that doesn't happen, then you, you, you follow the path. you've, you've, you've run the plot. You're just running the play according to what you've drilled. And that's why that's a jujitsu term that I always come up with a lot is drillers, you know, drillers are killers. And it's like what you have drilled at moments of pressure, you just default to, you just go run the play. You don't have to worry about what you do, you just do it.

Yeah. And that's what practice is, right? Like in anything, in any sport, you're practicing a particular drill and you do this thing over and over and over and over again. It's boring as hell, but the reality is, is that it's trying to build in that muscle memory of how you do it. But in reality, the ball never comes exactly the same way in a real game, right? The scenario and the situation is never about that. And once you add that component, it changes the dynamics of the pressure. And that's why Some people could be the greatest three point shooter when the game is not on the line. But once you put the game on the line, the pressure, you're down to one second, you gotta win the game. And there's a six foot five person standing in front of you with their arms stretched out. How do you react? How do you handle under that pressure? That pressure is completely different if no one's in front of you and you gotta free, like no one, it's free and clear and you gotta take a three point shot. Your percentage is gonna guarantee you drop because you have all those things, external pressure that you can't control, your heart rate and everything else. I remember watching, I don't know if we talked about this, but I remember watching Jessica Fox, you know, who was the Australian Olympian for the canoeing. And I remember watching one of her training regiments and what they do. And the training regiment was that she would, the coach would put her under like pressure, like so they would do a skier. So they put her heart rate, cardiovascular and a high heart rate cycle. So, which is mimicking, you know, what you would be doing in a race. And then,

think you mentioned it. Yeah, think you mentioned it. Yeah. Yeah.

they would throw a tennis ball at her and she had to like, you know, move them along because she has to in her sport, she has to dodge all of these, these, these metal rods to go around these cones in the the kayaking. And so what they're mimicking is, is they're going, you know, how do you handle yourself if you hit a rod? Can you just let it go and move on and knowing you made a mistake and you have lost a you know, a five second penalty there? Or do you let that hang over your head and then go grab it? Man, why did I do that? And then now affect all the remaining gates that you're gonna, you still have to hit. Can you learn to let that go? And that's very difficult. And then the story is, is Michael Phelps, you one of the greatest all time goat swimmers in the world. And I remember hearing a story how his coach used to mess with his goggles. He used to like, like, I think, loosen them up or cut them around. So when he dove in, in, in practice, water would accumulate and was to kind of piss him off. It's to kind of going, how do you handle yourself? because that's going to happen. Like, it might be one in 10 ,000 chance that when you're in an Olympic race, in a gold medal race, you jump in the water and your, your goggle flips open and you, can't see how do you handle yourself. But because they put that contingency in play in practice, you know, this has happened before. I know how to handle myself, but if that happened for the very first time in a gold medal race, you freak out, you lose in that split second, that energy you wasted thinking about that moment is what will cost you a gold. and a medal. And that is why they train these contingency things in every sport is because, well, if you're smart about it, because you never know how it's going to turn out.

Exactly. That's, that's such a relevant point because that I've had, I've had water in my goggles for the last six months Lawrence. And, there were times where I've just gone, man, just suck it up. Just keep swimming, you know, like, because it hasn't gone to plan, but you know, I'm bumble along. keep working forward. And I think that that's, that's kind of what I've tried to embrace. It's, know, the other, the other thing that stops people doing things because like you said, you're going to look silly. You're not going to be perfect about it, but who cares? You know, like it's just, you're, already in motion and you're, moving and you're, and you're creating as you're going along. And after, after the water goes out of your goggles and you, you, you've swung after you've rectified all the things that have shown up that were obstacles, you're going be further ahead than someone who actually didn't start. And that's, that to me is what it's, it's better off being You know, my, my, my old coach, John, John Hinwood used to say, you've to be prepared to be lousy. And if a job's worth doing, it's a, it's worth doing lousy. it sounds counterintuitive initially here. And it's like, no, he's not saying do it terribly, basically going, being prepared to be lousy, being okay with that course correcting, coming back, getting better and just keep, keep, you know, rinse and repeat. And eventually that will get easier and decision -making and risk -taking is very similar to that.

Well, it's interesting. was just, I was listening to, was watching this video about mastery and how do you create mastery? Well, I think some of the key components and they use a really great example, which I think we all can relate to. It's like driving. You know, do you remember driving for the very, you know, driving for the very first time when you first drive, you know, it's can be very challenging and difficult. I remember the first time I drove, learned how to drive. like, I'm like, Oh my God, there's so much thing to think about. I got to think about the road, the people. you know, the pedestrians and like oncoming traffic, my speed, you know, my RPMs and like there's so many instruments and so many buttons. And I'm like, you know, I'm like tense on the wheel. And over time with practice, as we all get along, done this so many times, you start to realize, I'm like, okay, you can start to ignore some of these things because, you know, they're not that important or you just learn to recognize it before it actually happens, right? We all have done this. And so what's really interesting is that, you know, after, you know, months of practice or years of practice driving, you're now a good driver, right? You're a good driver, so let's assume that. But just because you now drive for the next 10 to 20 years doesn't actually make you a better driver 20 years later, does it? And this is the interesting part. Because you made yourself from a rookie driver who never drove, from a non -driver to a driver, that process was tough and you've gone through that. But additional years of experience doesn't actually make you any better. And this is the fascinating thing is because if you want mastery, It's unless you change something in that driving, you're not gonna get better because you're just gonna basically stay still. And this is the comfort zone that we all get stuck in. So let's take the driving example. Unless we start learning how to drive in wet weather or in snow or in sand or in a racetrack, we're not gonna and put ourselves in situation like a rookie again, like what you said, like, you know, something that you're afraid to lose. you're never going to improve your driving ability. You'll probably stay exactly how you were. You might have a little bit of improvement, but because of experience, but that's it. But if you really want incremental and exponential growth, you have to put yourself in situations where it's challenging for the level that you're at. And I thought that was such a fascinating thing. And it relates to what we're talking about is most people are not willing to start something is because they know what it takes to start something new. And they can't... that something new requires you to have a different skillset. It requires you to be a different person. And that difference, if you've been in this game or been in that position for long enough, that's scary. Like that takes guts and courage to do so. And that fear of having to learn something new again, like learning a new language, you know, now you got to learn Scottish, right? And that learning new Scottish is such a tough element, right? And it's scary.

Charlie. Uh huh.

obviously just joking, but it's it's it's it is kind of that moment of putting yourself I feel like I'm such an out like learning it's like Portuguese, for example, like a learning new language, I find it so difficult. And there's a part of my brain just goes, it's embarrassing. Actually, I just want this embarrassing want to feel like a kindergarten kid again. Like, how did I learn the English language in the first place? If you don't remember that you have to have to be a kid again. And two, it's challenging work, which you have to put some effort and time, because you do have to put effort and time, and some are like, oh, I don't have time or effort. So you just create these stories, and so you never begin. But like anything, you do have to start from somewhere, and you have to put in the effort, and that first effort, and that first bit is so hard and so long, and you don't see the results right away, and that's the thing I think that stops people, because the reward doesn't come till much later. No different than if I learned jiu -jitsu, no different than if I learned how to lift Olympic weights or getting back to the gym and want to lose and get fit. It takes that time to get there. You don't see those results for almost six months to a year sometimes.

It's humbling. It's really humbling to to let go of any ground you may have made up and any progress you had in a specific area to actually go, thank you. That's very good. I'm starting again. But you're not. Here's what I've had to look at is I'm not starting at zero again. What I'm starting is at a particular point with experience, tools, resources, learning, all those things in my back pocket. And I think that's a big distinction is that you're not starting from scratch, you're not starting from zero when you're starting something new. It's different if you might start a new career, but your house is the same. That's different, but this is like complexity upon complexity of uncertainty, uncertainty, but you're not starting, like if you're in your 50s and you're considering making a change in something different, you're not starting from the same point because you've got knowledge, you've got experience, you've got wisdom, hopefully. And that as a result is going to... help you make better, quicker decisions that are gonna get you better outcomes and results. So you're not starting from zero. No one suddenly just took away everything you ever learned from experience and your connections and your relationships. You're starting at base camp in one respect, but you've got so many other advantages that someone who's starting at the start who doesn't have that would be starting.

Yeah, and I find like the most interesting people, the people that are constantly like interesting people, but also creates a lot of success in their life. They are pretty much the constant beginner. Like they have this mindset of being this curiosity to learn and to be okay to be a beginner all the time. And I think that that really, that mindset creates a lifelong commitment to learn and be okay with being a beginner and being a rookie and novice. That mindset really helps the person accumulate a lot of skills. And then now you have this beautiful blend of different skill sets and knowledge and education and experience and variety of different things. And that combination is like, you know, the reason why I find those people fascinating is because they now have this combination of things they can extract from various different sports or skill sets or education or experience that cross prompt, uh, pollinate, uh, pollinate that allows them to be that much more exceptional because they have that ability. Um, and there's a great book, um, call range that talks about being a generalist versus a, uh, being a specialist, you know, and it is because of being a generalist sometimes allows you to be general and all these areas. But if you can somehow combine all of those skillsets. That is what makes you different and become the genius, the 1 % that no one can ever copy because you have that different background.

Yeah, I can see that. I can see that because you're looking for the connections and you're, you know, you, if you're following your own curiosity and going, gee, I wonder how this is related to that. And I wonder how this, what would happen if I did this and this and this or gee, that would, I've never done that before. Okay. Let's see where this goes. That to me as a way of being is very helpful because it follows your own interests. And as I said, your curiosity and you're going to constantly be coming up against situations and challenges you haven't seen before, but After you've negotiated that, you build the confidence to go, okay, this is I learned as a result of this. I'm now going to follow that. I'm going to follow that. And it takes you on this path. And the beautiful thing about that, I think, is that you're following your own joy anyway. And so consequently, you're not only learning new things in growing as a person, but you're getting your level of fulfillment taken care of as well too, because it's your interest that you're following. You're not actually just learning something that is against your will. The joy of graduating, say, high school or progressing through your preliminary professional trades or careers is that once you're on that path and you've chosen it and you've gotten through the basic training that you have to get to, the rest of it is your own curiosity. And you can follow that. And to me, that's the joy of adulthood and adult learning is that you can follow this pathway over and above what you have to have done to get to where you are, because now that interests you.

Hmm. You know, I think this is the perfect ending to this, you know, that great summary. couldn't say it better than that. And I really feel like this is the powerful episode to allow people to really contemplate and think about their decision -making about starting the thing that you know, you probably have been thinking about that you haven't done. And I hope that this helps you propel for, we'd love to hear more about it. Maybe send us a message, personal message, or, you know, send it on Facebook, whatever, like tell us what are you willing to start? What are you willing to commit to? Just give it a go. Start something small, maybe something big. Who knows? But we're excited to hear that and this what these podcasts are about. So this is Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. And that's the key word, imperfection, that nothing is perfect. Everything you do will be imperfect. And that's the beauty of it. So guys, until next time, and we'll look for more for journeys of Scotland as Jim starts to integrate him himself into the Scottish culture. Take care.