Improvise, Adapt and Overcome

Welcome to Wabi Sabi, the art, I was gonna say the art of innovation for some reason, the art of imperfection, just because we were just about to innovate a topic here right on the spot in the moments just before we start to press record. And that's where my mind went. It just went, well, this is the art of improvisation, but no, it's not. It's actually the art of imperfection. And the reality is that this episode, and this is maybe just right on cue, that's what we're talking about, it's just about improvise, adapt, and.

Thank you. I'm sorry. NOISE

overcome and this is why probably that word kind of stuck in my head as we got started and Jim was just about to say something and all of a sudden boom and we were recording.

It was, I was, I was, I looked away and the recording started and I was about to have a drink and I said, Hey, Lontis. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, we're like one second. And it was like, go. So if anybody. NOISE

So just on the background, NOISE most yeah, on the background, most people don't, but they don't realize we have a countdown when we press record. And what I like to do is we just, I just press record on random starting points so that we actually just get going. And then you just, so people would just kind of catch us kind of off guard and we just got to go rather than trying to like, okay, are you ready? Are you ready? Okay, I'm ready. You're ready. And then we just kind of go and it just feels kind of forced and where I just kind of, I don't know. I like putting Jim on the spot to just go and then we just kind of have fun with it. So that's sort of where we went. So this is the first, NOISE and it's actually fitting. It's so, it's so, yeah, it is so fitting to exactly what we're talking about today. And I just love it. So I think it was the perfect intro of what we were talking about today. So Jim, you tee it off today on what we're gonna talk about.

Yeah. I like it. Yeah, I like it. And nothing is scripted. Nothing is scripted. Yeah. Yeah, I will. NOISE All right. I will. So I'm just back from Scotland. I went to a seminar, a conference over the weekend and we flew from Barcelona to Edinburgh. That was the end destination, but we happened to be in town at the same time. Taylor Swift was in Edinburgh. Now, unless you've been under a rock, you know that Taylor Swift is the biggest news in entertainment in the world, not just in Edinburgh that weekend. So they've had nothing like this ever. So we couldn't get a direct flight from, from Barcelona to Edinburgh. We had to go through a milk run and fly to London and then then across to Edinburgh. And all prices were three times the value, all accommodation that was jacked up significantly. People could not get accommodation anywhere near the venues. They had to be bussed in as far as Glasgow. and regional areas just in for the concert. So it's absolutely phenomenal. NOISE And flights were late and held up. So we were delayed going in. NOISE And on the way back, NOISE we had a flight on the Sunday that we were scheduled to arrive back. And we got an email at four o 'clock in the morning saying, hey, your flights are canceled. And we knew how hard it was to get flights into Edinburgh. And we figured it's going to be just about impossible to get out. And sure enough, we had to return the car to the airport, but the AMO we said is, hey, we've booked you on the flight, but it's out of Glasgow. So we had to basically go to the airport, get rebooked because we couldn't get through customer center, NOISE found the flights, but in Glasgow in a day, in a day and a half. NOISE So we had to hire a car, go across, stay in Glasgow. I wasn't feeling great. NOISE at the same time either I had man flu, which, you know, for anybody who's had it, it's like an exorcism if you're a guy, NOISE pretend it just thinks about it as just a petty little cold. But I wasn't thinking as clearly, but we had to adapt. We had to just go and change. We had to find alternative plans. We had to drive. We had to stay in hotels. We had to do all these things because of circumstances that were outside of our control. So it was a...

Hmm.

great weekend that was made more difficult by the obstacles that had along the way, but it really highlights the imperfection and also what we had to do just to get home. So that was the context for the conversation.

Yeah, so the lesson learned is to, yeah, I mean, the main number one lesson I think you take away from is don't fly with Jim ever. You can meet him there, but just don't travel with him. This is not the first time I think, you know, I'm sure you've heard some, a couple of stories now from London and, you know, having to take trains and trains being canceled. NOISE And, you know, this is not the first time we've heard this. So yes, note number one, NOISE don't travel with Jim. NOISE Bettina, I don't know how you do it, but.

Hehehehehe Nope.

Obviously it's a fun thing. So number two, yeah, I mean, you came up with the saying improvise, adapt and overcome. And you know, what we researched around that, it's a very common phrase by the U S Marine's Corps. And I think that's sort of what we have to do in life. And we know based on the Taylor Swift effect is real, man. When Taylor Swift was here, NOISE getting tickets for my daughter who was a Swiftie was very, very, very difficult. And it was definitely a challenge. It was sold out within minutes and we had people from North America flying in. I'm like, how are North Americans getting tickets to this local event where we as locals here couldn't get tickets, which is just absolutely ridiculous. NOISE Um, anyways, we, we ended up getting her there. Um, so we were, you know, she was super excited and she was happy, but it took, you know, I think it took her, they weren't arrived early to the stadium when I think it took her two hours to get inside the stadium. Um,

Yeah.

and just in time when the opening act was actually just there. So it does happen. We are usually dealt with these circumstances in life. What you described is something that I think we need to kind of frame, which is number one, I kind of look at life in three buckets. When things are happening, there are usually things in one bucket where you are in full control of the situation. Then there's second bucket is usually things that you have influence on. And the third bucket is you have no control whatsoever. NOISE So weather is a perfect example. You have no control over whether the weather is gonna be great or not, NOISE and whether planes are canceled. But you have influence, meaning that you could choose to influence someone to do something or influence someone to maybe take a specific action, maybe convince the car rental people to kind of give you a better car. So that's an influence thing, right? Whereas something like, and third thing is, you know, something you have full controllers, which you took, it goes, well, you know what, we're going to go drive to Glasgow, or we're going to fly here, or we're going to stay in action. Those are things we have control. And I think really important to kind of always frame your reality of what's going on into one of those three buckets first.

Yeah, totally. And, and you know, you highlighted a very good point Lawrence, because a lot of the times we always talk about the locus of control, you know, internally and externally. NOISE Why I found that this was a real challenge was because while there was mayhem externally going on, ordinarily I can go within and get santed and grout and say, Hey, you got this. It's all cool. But at the same time, I wasn't feeling great. So I wasn't at my most empowered. So I was like a double whammy, you know, and that's why I found it really difficult was I didn't have the.

Yeah.

I guess the resources personally. NOISE And so I had to rely on Bettina who was a lot more clear thinking than the both of us at that time to just go, Hey, just find a solution. I can't think. I really can't. I'm feeling terrible. Um, you know, I was run down and realized that was the case. And I think because I was go -go -go in the lead up to it when I finally slowed down, my body just went, dude, we've been carrying you for the last four or five days. It's, uh, it's time to have a nap. NOISE And so that was the, that was the challenge. You know, and it's funny to talk about that. NOISE Yeah. For me. And I think that that's because I play such a high priority on being the best of at myself at any time. So I love the ability of being clear thinking. I love the ability of being decisive. I love the feeling of being, Hey, I can do this. And I get a lot of confidence and validation in that. So to not suddenly not have that, I feel like I was like a table without legs. I really did. And that was, that was why it was really difficult for me at that time.

It's a huge challenge. I think, you know, it's not, and I know this might be going a little bit sideways, but I think it's really important. You know, most people know health is such an important element for life, NOISE but realize, I think, I think what I realized is that most people don't realize how important health is until you lose it. And I remember when I first got, when I got COVID, the first and only time that I did get COVID, man, I was out, I was out for 10 days. And it was the first day I arrived in Portugal. We'd literally just moved. And, And I remember showing up at our Airbnb. NOISE Um, I had COVID symptoms on our last leg from journey from, from Sydney to, uh, to, to Portugal. And it was that from London to Lisbon. And I remember I just had go, I just got to get it back. I just got to get the family into the room. And once, once I got into the apartment, I just crashed out and I going, okay, I'm done. I'm like, my job is done. You're going to have to figure yourself out. And I was in bed for the next 10 days. And I remember how ill I was not from like not ill, but I was just I couldn't think like, you know, so I understand how you feel when you're like a massive flu. You just can't process. NOISE And with your body and mind and you don't and your health is not ready there. It's, you know, you can have all the best tools and mindset all you want, but you just have no resources to actually make a decision. And that's really hard. So I think when it comes to you know, for allowing us to improvise and adapt and overcome, you have to have a healthy body to do it. And I think this is where the emphasis on us, you know, are people making sure that they do everything possible to ensure that you have a healthy body and mind so that you can actually be at your best to do all of those things. Without that, it's almost impossible to function. So I think that's why I think we put such a high priority on our health.

Yep. Good point, NOISE really good point. I mean, as it turned out, yeah, I had some, while I was there, we defaulted, I defaulted to my regular and trusty things. I got adjusted, NOISE practically as soon as we got back, I had a normal scheduled acupuncture appointment as well. So that's what's helped me bounce back. But those few days, they felt really weird. And just to make things more complicated, like you just said, Lawrence, you know, when, when things are in zone and you get upgraded, that's what's in your control. NOISE But Tina went and got the car when we went to Edinburgh and she got upgraded. The guy, young guy, had this great conversation with her and he goes, you know what, you're a really lovely lady here. Let me upgrade you. And, you know, we had a Prestige car upgrade, which was awesome. NOISE And then we came back, we dropped the car off and then we had to get another one. By that stage, there were no cars. While I'm feeling my worst, we had to get into a little Fiat 500 and I was almost doing the, I was doing the Lotus position between Edinburgh and Glasgow. You know, going, I don't think I could feel any more lousy right now. And here I am in the Lotus position while we're driving through and like, it was just, it was like challenge after challenge after challenge. And I had to just keep it like we couldn't have had it the other way around. No, I couldn't, I couldn't wind the seat back. Nothing. All those kinds of things. I had to really find something and I'll make light of it now, but it was just bedlam and. Thank goodness Bettina was the clear thinking one of the two. Cause if I was by myself when I was feeling like that, or if you were having to negotiate international travel while you were feeling like that to Lawrence, you could end up as that meme goes, NOISE that, you know, you ended up in Austria instead of Australia because you just misread things so much, right? Cause you're not thinking clearly.

Hmm. Yeah. I heard on a funny side, no, my daughter keeps on telling me that there's, even my son, sorry, my son and my daughter keeps on telling me that there is a special, supposedly, I don't know how street this is, but there's a special kiosk in Austria for people who have just landed in Austria thinking that they went to Australia. NOISE Yeah. NOISE

Yeah. Yeah, that's the one. That's the one. I think I've seen it on socials and I just giggle and laugh and that would have happened to me if it was up to me on that trip by myself. I probably would have ended up in the same thing. Same way, because you're just not thinking clearly enough. NOISE So.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, these things do happen. And sometimes it's really difficult not to lose your mind and lose your head around this time. I remember, you know, since we're talking about travel, I mean, these things do happen to all of us, right? So we're going to use these examples as moments in time, right? So I remember I was flying into Marbella. I did a retreat in Marbella. I made this poem back maybe five years ago in Spain. And I, you know, I was booking my flights and I thought, you know what? I was looking around. I always stay at 24 hours afterwards. My retreats is to kind of, you know, spend some time for myself to cool down. Yeah. Decompress look around. And it was funny because at the one place I looked at it, I was like, Oh, you know what? Gibraltar is not too far. And Gibraltar is actually part of the UK. I'm like, you know what? I'm going to go to Gibraltar. Cause I will probably never go to Gibraltar ever again in my life. And I might as well being part of that world, I was going to go to Gibraltar. So I said, I'm going to book a flight out of Gibraltar.

decompress as well too, yeah.

to fly into London and then catch my flight from London back to Sydney. I didn't, if you've never been to Gibraltar, it was the most fascinating city and one of the most fascinating city because you cross, Gibraltar is like this little edge of Spain that is a part of the UK, but it's like all by itself in the corner. And in order to get in, like you basically take a taxi or Uber all the way to the edge and you gotta walk into the border control, right? With your luggage and passport, but you gotta walk through.

Hmm.

the airport, NOISE literally the airstrip. That's the dividing line between Gibraltar and Spain. NOISE And so you gotta cross, you gotta wait until, you gotta wait until the planes are cleared and then you walk across and there's border control. I'm like, oh, this is kind of interesting. So I stayed the night in Gibraltar on a cruise ship, which was turned into a hotel. It was kind of fascinating. Went up the hill and da -da -da. But I didn't realize the next day I was flying out and I didn't realize, I had actually five hour layover in London. But that was the decision I made.

Well.

But Gibraltar is actually one of the most dangerous airports in the world because it's got this massive rock face sort of like in Queenstown and so, and it's right on the coast. So there's very, very windy. So when planes kind of come in, sometimes if it's too windy, like the planes can't land cause it's just, or it's going to hit that rock. So they, they got to be very careful. And of course the day I was supposed to fly out to Gibraltar to catch my international flight, 24 hour flight from London, which is on a separate ticket, by the way, I had to, you know, I'll wait for this plane to arrive and that plane never landed. because they attempted twice and they never landed and they had to go fly, guess where? Marbella. NOISE So, right? So my five hour window, I had five hours layover in London, started cutting down and they're like, well, we'll see what happens. And then eventually I had to take a bus, all the passengers had to grab their luggage, take the bus all the way to Marbella, Spain. So we had to drive all the way, that's another one, an hour, hour and a half, catch the plane in Marbella back to London. NOISE And man, and I was watching my time like,

Cool.

I'm just gonna miss my flight. There's there's no way in hell am I making this flight across back to to Australia and So that's going back to the Locus control There I couldn't do anything about it I was literally sitting on the plane worried about whether I'm gonna catch the plane I'm like well What am I gonna do about it like wishing and hoping that this plane will land? Hoping and wishing that you know I can get on that on the tarmac faster and get out of this plane that quicker It's not gonna change anything. My wish is not you know, the not everybody's wish and it's

Yep.

I can't change the outcome. And I think that was really interesting. It was just monitoring my, my, my, you know, going back and forth, you know, a part of me just says, you know, man, you should be panicking. And the other side goes, well, what are you going to do about it? And it was really just fascinating, just kind of, you know, working through that energy within myself. And it's hard. It's really hard. By the way, I just finished that story, got to London. I thought I had to go from one terminal to the other. Luckily I was actually in the terminal that was supposed to be in gates were closed already. And there was happy one guy sitting in the back, you know, when you check in your luggage and I'm like, can I get on? And he's like, what? And he just happened to be in the dark and it was like, and he actually took my luggage and I fricking ran lucky. I was a CrossFitter. I fricking ran. Have you ever been to London? It's not, it's not a short, not a short to, uh, to, uh, run to, um, to the gate. And, uh, yeah, I got on, I was the last person on the flight and they held that plane made it. It was, uh, my kids would have killed me. I didn't make that flight.

Oh, lucky. You made it. NOISE Yeah. NOISE Lawrence, how did you get off pan out on me being the jinx of flights when you finish off with a story like that? I mean, seriously, that was you did. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Fair call. Fair call. NOISE Okay. Oh, that's the contingency. Got it. You did everything to get to, okay. I get it. I get, I can see the points. All right. Your point stands that I'm the one who creates deviations, but.

But I made it. I made it. I didn't miss my flight. NOISE My flight was not canceled. NOISE That's right. NOISE Despite all of that, I still made the flight. I actually did a video on the tooth. That's pretty funny. Anyways.

Um, I thought I had an inroad there display, NOISE but in that, but you know, like, NOISE you know, this is, this is, this does highlight, um, something very critical because, you know, we talk about, I always use the term adapt innovative to come. That was, that always just felt more natural for me, whether it's a meme or whatever, but the adapt part of that is whether you choose to freak out. or whether you choose to surrender. It's that question. When I say surrender, not give up a surrender to the process and go, you know what? There's nothing more I can do. There is nothing more I can do. What can I do? What can I do that? That in and of itself is adapting to the situation, right? Innovating is going, okay, what can I do? Okay. If I can't go straight line here, what do I need to do? You might need to ask the help for someone. You might have to ask a question. You might have to sprint to the gates to get there. That's, that's innovating, right?

Hmm.

And overcoming is just going, okay, no matter what obstacle shows up, I will find a way. I will work through it. So that is a mindset. And I think we've highlighted it specifically with travel, but it's just as equally applicable to so many other areas in life. If you run a business, you're going to come up with hassles. If you've got a family, they're going to be challenges. They're going to be mortgages. They're going to be bills that you've bring kids up, all those kinds of things. This is a principle that is transferable to multiple areas of your life and world, not just travel.

Yeah. Well, when, when, when she hits the fan, right? You, you do have to get into that mindset of improvising and, you know, adapting to life because the reality is that if you don't improvise and think of an adapt, you, you're going to get stuck. NOISE And I, you know, I've seen so many people who, you know, I'm sure you all have, who are listening to this, uh, would know someone in your life that is constantly, um, saying, man, the world's against me. is why is this always happening to me? And those are the people who are not improvising who are not adapting because they refuse to because they rather sit in being a victim, you know, no offense, but that's just sort of what it is. Let's call it what it is. Right? They they they'd rather be in a situation where they are being a victim to their circumstances, right, the things that they have no control over. And I don't personally I find that really tough because I don't want to live in a world where I have no control of the life that I have to live. And I want to feel like, like I said, there are certain things I can't control, but there's definitely certain things I can control. And the one thing I can control is how, um, how I can use my mind or how I can adapt to the situation. But the most important thing I think you mentioned there is that adaptation, um, improvisation, innovation, all of those things as a muscle. And it's a muscle that you have to work at. You can't just, you know, expect that you just have this natural skill. Right? Because if you, and most people who learn to adapt are usually people who have learned to adapt over their lifetime. And the more you learn to adapt, the more you take yourself less seriously or the more you're able to go focus on the things you can control, you build up this muscle and you actually train yourself to create this confidence in yourself that you can overcome something. You can adapt in any situation, you can improvise in the situation, but sometimes you're not going to be able to. Sometimes you fail. But the reality is that the more you try, the more you're willing to give it a go. And I think that the people who are stuck, who are blaming external circumstances that they have no control over, are usually the ones who refuse to adapt, refuse to improvise, and they refuse to use that muscle. So therefore they just get stuck on just wondering why bad luck happens to them.

Yeah, and if you've traditionally been reliant on one modality, one skill, one tool in your belt to get through and suddenly that's taken away from you, that really does test you. It really does test you. I mean, we've spoken previously about the stock -dell effect. NOISE You know, we talked about it where people who were POWs, the ones who had this expectation that things were going to happen by a certain time were invariably the people who didn't survive that, which was really... So it talked about optimism, but I was going to ask you a question having lived in Sydney is I've got an example here of where this played out really well too. You know, the, the city to surf that they run in Sydney, the, the fun run aside, 13 kilometers from the city to Bondi beach. I've done that several times and everybody talks about what's called heartbreak Hill, which is this steep incline over a period of time around about that seven kilometer mark. NOISE And I kept on hearing about heartbreak, you'll have break your heartbreak.

Mm -hmm.

And so in my mind, NOISE I was prepared to, I'm going to sprint up or go up pretty quickly up heartbreak Hill. Really cool. So I got to heartbreak Hill and it felt really cool. And then you turn around this corner, it's like this hairpin and there's this pitilittle Hill afterwards. That's a 10th of that Hill. And it takes more people out because they weren't prepared for it. So everybody was prepared for the big challenge, but the moment they went through it and they didn't anticipate an obstacle.

Mm.

That's the one that derails so many people. And I see that so many times where people can put their focus and attention to the specific task at hand. But when something comes out of left field, they didn't anticipate or expect, it derails them when realistically they've negotiated something much bigger, but that was kind of like the final straw that really was the catalyst. Any thoughts on that?

Hmm. Yeah, it reminds me a lot to do like, you know, people who hike, or who tried to climb Mount Everest, right? And usually where people fail is usually that last couple hundred meters, right? I can't remember what it's called. There's a name for it. And it's like, and it is that last little ridge, you know, they get all the way to that last point. But it's just almost like it's so I think it's called Sir Edmund Hillary. something, someone will remind me what that is. But there's that last little bit that people get stuck on, you know, and they, they, they climb all the way through at that point. And it's like, it's not that far, but yet it is so far, you know, until the, the, the, when your finish line is, is compromised and you don't actually think through it actually today of all days. Uh, it's funny that you mentioned this because I believe, uh, in the world championship, I don't know if it was a world champion. It was definitely a race today where the Spanish woman, um, was in the walk. It was the. I can, I guess the walk, I don't know, it was a 15 kilometer walk or whatever the race. NOISE And, uh, I'm gonna know if it was Olympic trial or not, but she was ahead and she said she looked back and you know, the person in the second place was about a hundred meters behind her, uh, in about 200 meters left. And so she thought she had it in the bag and she, she raised her hand to think that she won and she lost it in the last second, the second place came over and beat her. Um,

Yeah. Yeah.

And sometimes like, you know, like, you know, you know, anybody who's ever played any sport, it's, you just know, like you're not, don't celebrate until you finish. Cause it's that last little bit. And we've seen that so many times, um, where, you know, they just, they just think they got it. And until it's like, nothing stops until it's finishes. And I think that's where we forget. And I look at, you know, what we're talking about improvising and adapting in sport. I think about you and jujitsu. I mean, it's like, that is probably the ultimate. Um, where you are taught a certain skill, right? And we're all taught like any sport has that paddle, what have that. Okay. Here's how you do a forehand and backhand here at volley. Uh, Jesus, this is how you escape out of this situation. This is how you do this. And in this situation, uh, I'm sure like every sport will have its thing, you know, and these are the basic strokes, but these basic strokes hardly ever come as perfect as it is in practice. Right. And so when you're in, in the game,

Yep, yep.

Like when are you ever going to get a forehand to hit that cleanly as a coach hit it to you 10 times like that? Or when you're in jujitsu, like, you know, you're in a headlock and someone's like on the ground and putting in a headlock, like, you know, you know what to do. But in that moment, when the pressure is on the competitions there and you're, you know, your air is being choked and you can't breathe and you're tired and sweating, you know, low in energy, can you adapt what you learned? It's on the foundational skills to. improvise something else to get out of that situation. And I think this is where it's so important to build that foundational memory on anything and then learn to adapt from that, not to say this is how I need to follow every single move. And I think that's really important when it comes to sales, for example, in marketing, you know, people learn a script, great, but we're not robots, right? You just because you say the same script word for word doesn't mean you're gonna get the sale. It just, you have to figure out the script and this is the basic, what are you trying to understand and then learn how to adapt that script so that in a way that you're actually learning how to say it in a way, because that script is just the framework. But how do you change that framework to adapt to the situation of how to influence someone better? I think that was something that you're gonna have to think about.

Yeah. Yeah. Great point. You know, you mentioned sport there, Lawrence, and anybody who's watched sport for a while always identifies when one team is on. There's a charge, they've got momentum. And it's the hardest thing to stop in sport when you see a team coming is the momentum play is just huge. And you mentioned Jiu -Jitsu. What's really fascinating about Jiu -Jitsu is, you know, unlike other sports that have got a point, there's a point system that they have. you, but you can win a match either through points if you play that or submission. And what's always fascinated me is that you could get beat. You could be absolutely trounced for, you know, I could be, I could be competing against someone for seven minutes, 45 seconds. They are totally dominating. They've got me in a hole and I'm just holding on by a sec. And all I need is one move of my hips to be able to get enough movement to get a toe hold and the little guy submit and. totally fascinates me that sometimes the victory is just holding on. The victory is not about you dominating somebody else, but just handling the barrage that that person or life brings that to you up until the point where you can shift momentum and you have your opening. And I love that. I always, you know, hang my hat on that kind of a philosophy that there is no matter how hard things get, NOISE sometimes the enduring, sometimes the holding on is the victory. and not giving up ground and not giving up ground to the person who's trying to, and you've just met that challenge and you haven't allowed them to progress. You see that same thing in NFL, right? Where people are charging, charging and the defense is working overtime just to keep them and just to hold the line. That's a victory. NOISE And sometimes particularly when you are feeling like I was, um,

Oh yeah.

in Scotland was less than energetic, less than resourceful. They're the biggest victories you'll often get where you just kept going. You just found a way to find a solution to finally get to your destination where everything in front of you, all the obstacles, all the challenges were overwhelming. And to me, there's that part of it that I love that hero story. I love that hope story. NOISE It really inspires me, but sometimes, That's the only thing that you've got hope and holding onto hope when things are difficult is quite often the only thing you have. NOISE And I know just I, I, I moved and motivated by stories of triumph over adversity and adapting when all looks impossible and not because of anything superhuman that you do, but it's just this resilience and grit that you find within that allows you to. find a solution, find a way when things look hopeless.

Yeah, I'm usually on the other side of it though. NOISE Just like, just reminds me of this, you know, I mean, you think about all the sporting analogies and stuff and you know, last losing the Superbowl in the overtime and, and even just recently in a couple of weeks ago, I was in a game and we were winning five one. And like, we talk about not finishing and somehow we lost seven five. Uh, you know, like it was just incredible. Like they just never gave up and.

Anyway.

You think you have five when you get a healthy lead, but you know, somehow you just lose that game. And actually the thing we've lost like seven, six, but either way, it was just like, it's a devastating loss. So, and I think that's the beauty of sport. The beauty of life is that sometimes it is, like you said, it's not about winning or losing sometimes. I mean, it's always about winning, but, but it's, it is about the stories are great when you are, it's about the perseverance and sticking to, um, sticking your ground and being able to willing to go through. And are you willing to last long enough? And I'll be, I mean, if I was down, say five one, you know, in that situation and we lost actually today was, I was playing today and we were down five one and we lost, um, six four or six five or something. You know what? I was proud of that. I was proud of that moment. We, we, we, we stuck and we came back, um, to fight to all the way to the end. And we know we just, we just didn't complete it, but we fought to the end. And I, I, I'm more proud of that than losing. You know, seven one or six one, sorry. And I think that's, those are sometimes that's the thing. It's not always about the winning and losing. It's not. Sure. We would have loved to one, but I was, I was okay with that loss because we fought back. We didn't give up and we just took one game at a time. And I think that sometimes what we, we got to think of it in life is that we can kind of, we need to sometimes remove winning and loss in terms of goals and targets. Sometimes you need to just go like, are we willing to stay in the fight long enough? And I think when people give up too early, um, and.

Mmm.

you know, and you lose energy is very hard when you are losing down two games or three games, you know, to try to come back to find that motivation to come back to in a series, best of seven series is really, really difficult. Or if you're losing at halftime and losing by, you know, God amount of points like 20 points, that's really hard to be able to, you know, find any energy to be able to, to muster up and the motivation to want to do it over again. But you have to be in that position of going, never give up one point at a time.

Mmm.

And it's about the next point. And I think that's, that's, those are great triumph stories. And that's where we got to find the motivation. We love those stories, but I rather not to see it. I want to be part of that.

Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that. I guess, especially as, as we've recorded previously, you know, the most recent trip to the U S for a heart wrenching Superbowl loss. I totally get that Lawrence. I played cricket as a kid and, um, played for many years, even up until adult years in my junior years under 12 and 14 and 16, you get two years under 12, two years for, so in six years,

Hmm.

in cricket, we had a team that were predominantly all the same, like 90 % of the team, 95 % of the same team. We lost six games in six years. Guess which six games we lost? The grand final every six years in a row. Can I tell you, aside from being labeled the biggest chokers in the world, that was heart wrenching. And so, you know, any, if I win a chook raffle or something like that, I felt fantastic. But, but for me, it was, and we dominated, we dominated, we just couldn't get the job done.

Wow. Championships. Yeah.

when at those critical moments. So that was a really big life lesson for me to never take anything for granted and never expect that just because you're in front, NOISE you underestimate any opponent. I never underestimate any opponent anywhere, anytime. And if they're better, I can cop it on the chin. But if I've underestimated someone, like you said, that the Spanish Walker, you know, you know, they'll, they'll, they'll punish themselves, I imagine for a long time, because you're not.

Mm.

You're not making allowances for the human spirit who doesn't want to give something up. NOISE So, you know, it's not just sporting ones, they're the easy ones. But when you've got someone who's unwell and your loved ones unwell, and you're going to push for a solution to find some, how many times have you heard of that story where someone just kept looking and finding and trying to find a solution to a problem that no one else could see because there was a connection to finding an outcome.

Hmm.

And so in answer to what you were saying before about, you know, NOISE it's hard, it's hard when you're just pushing for the winning of the game sake, but most people connect it to something bigger than themselves. And that gives them something over and above what they're, they normally would be able to access. And that is a deeper purpose, a higher purpose, a higher sort of value for why they're doing what they're doing.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny, we're so similar and we're so much alike because I think of all this. Yeah. NOISE It's my heart breaks for you losing six round finals. NOISE And, uh, cause in every sport I've ever played, NOISE softball, baseball, hockey, all those sports, I've, I've only won ever one championship. Every time I've always been second best. Our team has always been second best. I've never been able.

People see us and think we're twins. I know that, it happens all the time.

to win the thing and the last time I won any championship was in grade eight. That's how far back that was. NOISE That was the only gold medal I ever got in my entire life and I've always been second best or third best or losing the semifinal. And we just, every team I've been on, it's just so crazy. But at least I got that one championship, I guess. But it is crazy to think, right? Like, you know, of all the teams I've ever been on, every sport, even like small little house leagues and stuff, we just could never finish. the job and I find it fascinating. Maybe that's what drives us.

So what do you think that teaches us both?

You know, yeah, it teaches us, hmm, that's a good question. I think for me, you know, I think it taught us to be harder, to be honest. NOISE The disappointment taught us to go, you're absolutely right about not taking things for granted, but also realizing that, you know, as much of those heartbreak losses is what makes us do it again. I think if things came easy, if we just went on, if we were just happy on teams and just dominated and dominated and dominated, NOISE I think you, especially if we did it when we're young, I think we'll get to a point where it's just like, everything's easy. I think that's a harder fall. Like if you, and you see this a lot in young kids who are just super strong, who are really gifted and athletic or whether it be academics or whether it be physical in their sport, and they are the best. not just in their school, maybe they're best in the district. Maybe that's best in the region, maybe invest in the state. And then at some point you're going to meet your match, NOISE right? And usually it might be when you go in the country and, or when you go against the world and all of a sudden you realize like, you might be the best in your circle, but when you're competing against everybody else, you realize like, Oh, like you haven't did, you haven't lost. So you actually haven't really found the depth of. how to dig more out of you because everything's come so easy. So I think for me, that resiliency and grit that you build up from losing, I think it's invaluable in hindsight. NOISE Sucks in the moment, but in hindsight.

Yeah, yeah. It sucks heaps at the time. You're right. And there's, there's a great book written called talent is overrated. It was written by a guy who represented England in cricket. I can't remember his name right now, but he talks about that. And there were so many people that I went to school with who were hugely gifted athletes, hugely gifted at school. But the first sign things got hard because they hadn't developed that muscle within. NOISE They, they basically, they couldn't handle the.

Mmm.

the difficulty of that pressure, the pressure, NOISE exactly. NOISE So, and I'm thinking of, what's that movie called? NOISE Rudy? Yeah, well, it's along the NFL, the guy who should not have made it, who had to endure every difficulty. He didn't have the physical dimensions, who constantly got beaten and battered, still ended up playing for, smallest guy, not a team. Yeah, exactly. And so that to me shows the, they always say it's not the size of the,

pressure. Yeah. Yeah. He was the smallest guy on the Northern Dame Fighting Irish team. Yeah. Yeah.

dog in the fight, but the size of the fight and the dog, NOISE meaning that what endurance, what grit, what capacity do you have to find something when did you keep going? And that to me speaks to that. NOISE So it's, it's, uh, it's transferable in so many areas, Lawrence, you know, and it's, it's just, this is why I saw this. And I guess, you know, we were very early on when we were talking about starting a podcast, you always said, you know, what is it that you do well? And you could go, I can take concepts. and I can simplify them and I can look at them and pass them on. And to an extent, this is what we're doing, is actually looking at this experience and looking through this lens and going, okay, wow, this is difficult. This showed revealed me to me, how did I show up in that scenario? Where else does this show up? And is this applicable to other areas of life as well too? And very quickly we realized that.

And the reality of life is such a... room for examination, you know, if we decide to kind of look at it that way. And it's like a series of experiments. And you know, I think this is what, what we're trying to talk about is that when you get to examine your life and you get to, when you get to actually look at an exam in your life, you can actually draw some really strong lessons from it. And if you don't, NOISE unexamined life is something that, you know, if you don't look at it, you're never going to be able to, to grow from. And I think this is why I love doing a podcast like this, because it forces me to kind of think back on my life. It forces me to think back on my actions, things back, my behavior, and then assess whether or not I can move forward or can I do better next time. And I think by doing that and just talking out loud forces me to kind of have those thoughts. And I hope that's in some way it improves me to be a better person, you know, next time. And because I have to be introspective and I want to be congruent to that. And that those are. those moments, you know, just reflect, just you asking that question for me to reflect back on, on my life and think back on those moments of, yeah, they were, they were tough times, you know, it sucks to lose, NOISE but what I traded for anything? No, I think it's, it's like, it's part of who I am. And it's kind of created that, that underdog story, right? That grit that you kind of want it bad enough to go, to go after it. And it's, I'm still trying really, you know, so, and it reminds me of a story when a friend of mine who's a Navy SEAL, And he talked to, well, I remember asking him and say, who are the, who are the, who are the Navy seals that never make through Hell Week? Who, who doesn't get through? And he was like, it's easy. He's like, it's usually the athletes, you know, that, that, that the university collegiate, you know, or high school athletes never make it. And I'm like, how is that possible? Cause they think they're the best. And they think that because they come in, they think they're fit and strong, they'll get through this, but it has nothing to do with strength. Has nothing to do with. how strong and fit you are. It actually has a lot to do with you have what it takes to survive. And because most of the gift, most gifted athlete don't actually have, like I said, the tenacity of failure to kind of get them to where they are. And it is that there's a switch that has to happen, you know, because it's about teammates, because most of them are fit athletes, they're usually by themselves. But this is a team, Navy SEALs is a team sport. This is about, are you willing to find something else?

Mmm.

survival, not just for yourself, but for the team to help someone else survive. And that's what, who they're looking for. And that's who the ones that don't get broken when they worry about others rather than themselves. And that's, that's what the Navy seal brotherhoods about. And I think that's something true about human relationships. And it's like, are for us is that this is not a singular game here. It is a multiplayer game. And how do you, you know, improvise and help and adapt and other and overcome so that others can learn from it. And how do we do it together? I think those are the challenges that we.

Yeah. Mmm.

you know, we need to kind of take a look at and life to move us forward.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great point because I think if you examine anybody's origin story who has overcome what felt like insurmountable odds, there's usually this process. There's usually this, you know, in kids, the immune system relies on childhood illnesses to learn how to adapt to things so that when you get older, you have a level of resistance and, and immune function and, and have an active immune system.

Hmm.

What's by the same principle, quite often you'll look back at some, some challenges and difficulties that people had in their lives, which derailed a lot of other people, but they somehow found a way to work through that. And they found that and developed that within themselves, within their character, which then allowed them to apply to other areas. So there's sometimes, you know, you don't realize that and you reveal yourself to you when a situation arises that challenges you and you have to grow. So that's definitely one of those. And this is what we're talking about. But sometimes there's the exposure effect where you start having small doses over a period of time and you develop that resilience and skill. And that's why to me, the whole everybody gets a trophy principle I've never been in favor of. I always felt like meritocracy, you know, just doesn't teach kids, just prepare them for life, you know, make them work for something to develop that. NOISE And,

Yeah, doesn't make sense.

You know, if you're in a situation, and I'm grateful that I have, that I have choices that, you know, a lot of the people may not have had, I still made sure that our kids had challenges along the way to learn the art of having to dig in for something, whatever that was. Because if they didn't have that skill set when things are difficult and we're not around, they're going to struggle. They're going to find it a lot harder and they're not going to have the... the confidence and the self -awareness and the ability to be able to adapt, innovate, overcome whatever the challenge is that's in front of them.

You know, I remember when I was in high school, you know, I was relatively pretty academically strong, but I wasn't the strongest, but I was in the top, let's call it top 5%. And I remember getting into university and then going to university, you start to realize them like, Oh, like there's also a whole bunch of other smart people that are in, in my class, because that's how they chose it. Right. Because they take all the top people and they put them together and you realize, Oh, okay. This is.

Hehehehehe

And these guys are not only smart, they're also athletic. They're on rugby teams and they're on like, and all I do is I just, I was just smart. And then, and they got to go to all these schools. You know, my, one of my best, my best friend and roommate was like, you know, he was on a rugby team on, on university rugby team. So he would like be training almost every day. And plus he had to study and you know, all that stuff. And then when I got into chiropractic college, you know, that's taken the top again, cause it was a 160 spots for over 4 ,000, 5 ,000 applicants.

Yeah. NOISE

again, I was like now on the top of the top, I'm like, Oh my god, like, I'm now so you can see like, over as you go through in life, you start to realize, like, again, going back to the now, I was the top of my school in high school, let's call it that, right. And then you realize, I'm like, Oh, but when it comes to, you know, the state, you know, whatever the province, not so much, right. So I slowly rise to the top of that class, and then realize, and you go into the chiropractor, and realize, I'm like, Oh, man, there's so many more people. And then, and it's like, you as you get as you go through the stages, you start to realize there's a lot of other people just not exposed to it. And until you put yourself in the situation, that's when you really get challenged. I love that feeling because as as hard it is to rise to the top, you start to like, you know, you can get very comfortable. But if you don't challenge yourself to other to people who are, you know, your peers, then it could actually be better than you, you you get stuck. And this is where the whole element of like being the high school jock and most popular kid in high school.

Mmm.

really doesn't translate in life because that's your pinnacle life the al Bundy right you know situation where his greatest highlight was what he did in high school and I think this is where sometimes we get so we put so much emphasis on that high school moment I mean I was a no one in high school you know I was even a no one in university but he's you know over time you start to elevate because you're trying to strive and be better and over time you know the ride that the best will rise to the top but you got to be willing to not

Yeah.

not you got to be willing to continue to grow rather than be settling for success at one level.

Yeah. And so, and you see it a lot with people, you know, who choose to be a big fish in a small pond and not that there's anything wrong with that. However, there's a level of people not necessarily growing anymore and have anticipated all contingency. They've got them all under control and that's, and that's okay if that's what you're seeking. NOISE However, there are people who really, you know, who my son, for example, he decided that he wanted to launch. in the biggest stage in the world. So he moved himself to New York to take on the absolute titans of the finance industry to launch his hedge fund. Now he could have launched one from Australia and that probably would have been safer and whatever. NOISE So I have kudos to him for actually having the chance but to go, I'm going to a place where statistically more people get taken out and knocked out than anything else. NOISE And, and, um, I'm going to do it. I'm going to back myself. And what this kid does for kicks is goes in, trains your Jitsu every day as well, where it's still another challenge. So he he's adopted this as a way of life because he realizes that in overcoming these obstacles and challenges, there's a part of his identities and character that develop that he can then use in the day to day hustle and bustle that will become his, his career.

Maybe in the, in the podcast with this question for you is like, how do you continually do that? You know, at our age, um, to not just give in. Cause I find that it could be very challenging as we get older to, NOISE because you know, you talk about your son, it's easier because you know, he's in his twenties and you have all the other worlds ahead of him. And you know, he can take those knockbacks and he'll be fine because he's learning and he's great. You know, he has grit and. and it's not going to take him out, right? Cause he's, he's young enough to adapt. But how do you, how do you stay relevant, you know, being older, being in our fifties and, NOISE and still find that fight and be willing to take those chances? Like, how do you answer that?

Look, that's a great question. And sometimes I catch myself going, NOISE am I crazy? And to a small degree, I go, yes, I am because I've never bought into the idea that I'm the L Bundy where I peaked at high school. I always have the belief that the best of me is ahead of me. I always have that belief and I wish I could settle. And what I mean by settle, not settle as in there's a restlessness that says there is potential for improvement. There's always something that I can do better and provided that I'm inspired to want to do things. If I can, then I want to. NOISE And that's, that's part of my makeup. I don't know why. I don't know how. Um, I know awesome friends of mine are comfortable where they are. And they look at me and go, dude, why would you willingly do what you're doing and create uncertainty and upend everything that you have? And I said, but it's not about the thing, it's about the feeling internally. So for me, if I feel that there's unfinished business or the Greeks used to say the teleo, my purpose, my vision, if I think there's more in me, NOISE there's a restlessness that doesn't allow me to just sit around and get complacent. So. It's not a hyperkinetic stage. It's just, I know there's more and I know there's more for me. That's not making what other people do wrong. And I want to be really clear on that because I think I've mentioned before, there've been times where I thought that that's what the goal was and I would achieve that outcome and I'd have time. I lie on the beach and after a day, a week, a month, I go on board. There's more to this for me. So that's my answer, if that makes sense.

Yeah, no, it's great. It's great. I think it's just important. I think for people to share that for you to share that because I think a lot of people are listening could be in that, in that range, because I think that gets tougher. Um, because it's so much easier to kind of get to this point and there's nothing wrong with that. I think we're at some point, I know maybe it won't for you. I'm not sure, but I do have those moments for sure. Where I just feel like, I don't know. Do I really want to push anymore? And you know, I've had those moments in the last sort of five, 10 years and it definitely had, there's, there's moments of, of going, you know, I think.

Yeah.

it's good. And then, but there's also a part of me just goes, oh, there's so much more to give. And as I fight that sometimes, and I think it becomes harder. I think it's easier when you're in your 20s, because, well, it's not easier, but there's definitely more in you to kind of go after it. But in, in, as we get older, I wonder if that's going to stop. And so it's good to kind of hear that motivation and that mindset and also keep reminding us that there is so much that the best is still ahead of us, which I love to kind of keep on thinking about that.

Yep. Yeah, I've got a spiritual coach that I check in with quite regularly. And I was talking to her about this because they're bigger topics and themes. So I never talked to her about a specific objective. I'm talking about always expanding my cup. And my cup quite often means my capacity, my identity, my compassion, all those kinds of things. NOISE And this is what we were talking about. NOISE It was just helping me.

Mm.

you know, I'm reflecting on the question you asked me. And for me, I've gotten clear on saying it's got to be a hell yes or a hell no. And that has become my governing thing where we're in my twenties, I was stuck in the objective of the goal and the goal was achieving the goal no matter what, even if I hated every moment of it. So I think as time has gone on, I've been more discerning in terms of where I put my time and energy. NOISE So.

Mm.

I'm not going to just battle and fight for the sake of fighting. I've got to look at it and go, man, do I really want this? And if I don't want to, I can let it go. And that's the answer. I don't waste as much bandwidth as I do, as I did previously on things that don't have significance or value or importance to me. Like previously, I can let go of those and, and, you know, my ego can just let go of that comfortably knowing that because I just finished watching. Have you ever watched, um,

Hmm.

I might have read the book, but I was watching about the Blue Zones and this is great Netflix documentary. I was watching it over lunch today and it's fascinating that the chronicling people who are the hundreds, they've got this level of contentment, but they still challenge themselves. They're still getting out and chopping their own wood and tending to their vegetables and stuff. And there's that harmony and balance between finding a rhythm and a happiness, but also challenging yourself so you don't get. complacent and you don't degenerate. I think that's what I'm seeking in myself.

Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. That's great. And I think that's a great way to end the podcast. That way, just to kind of have reflexive thoughts around this and, you know, and the life ahead of us that all of us have to face, you know, because at the end of the day, as we go through it is that you have a choice every day to kind of design the life that you have, but it's also recognizing at some point it is going to end. So what kind of life do you want to end up with? And I think that's a, that balance between those two points are, is such an important element to, for us to always examine. So guys, I hope that you enjoyed today's podcast, really about more reflecting and making sure that you constantly find ways to adapt, NOISE improvise, and then also overcome your life situations and challenges because that's what life is about. But also remember that it's not always gonna go perfectly, hence the podcast of Wabi Sabi is the art of living without imperfection. So until next time guys, we'll see you on the next episode. Take care.