Making it Look Easy

the Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. And today's topic is the most brilliant one, I think, as it comes to the Wabi Sabi way of thinking and way of life. We've been starting this journey a long time ago, thinking about how, you know, life is just like an evolving rotating door of surprises and experience. And we just have to embrace it left, right and center. NOISE And sometimes what I think of the appearance on the outside world is that we make it look easy. You know, like I just think that it's such a, you know, an element and I know Jim's going to make the joke. So I'm just going to just put right on me, put my, make, uh, make fun of myself right away. But he's going to say, is he going to say, NOISE Lawrence, your hair just looks absolutely perfect all the time and you make it look easy. And I gotta say, it's not that easy. It took years of perfection. NOISE And, uh, you know, I wouldn't say hours, but it does take a bit of time in the morning to make it look this good. And I'm just joking out, of course.

NOISE Thank you. Yeah. NOISE

That's what the topic is, making it look easy. And I think that's a really important topic because it comes through as you navigate through life, no matter what it is, whether it be in business and practice and being a dad, being a husband, you know, and the social media world, I think has really enhanced that significantly because we're only seeing people making it look easy. Like, oh, it's that easy to, you know, fly a private jet or it's that easy just to go, you know, drive a Ferrari or Lamborghini. And, you know, I just got to send one email and All of a sudden, you know, money just pours in. I think that's where we're kind of in that world of the social media where everything makes it so easy that people now have created, has this strong expectation that it should be easy. And when they get the first disappointment, it's like, oh, what happened? You know, why am I not getting the success that I should have?

Mm. Yeah. You know, it's totally, and I'm just going to piggyback from that and say, look, I get the same thing about people. How do you have this shiny dome that you do? You make it just look so easy and clean. And honestly, by unlike you, like there's a different protocol that comes to bald headedness that, you know, you, you perfect the art after a period of time and everything. Initially, there's a process of work that makes things look simple and easy. And you're right about. the front end, the back end, because I think this was the motivation behind this conversation specifically is so often when you, I don't love watching people, NOISE yeah, masters in any field do what they do and they make it look so poetic and, and effortless. And, and yet you don't realize what has gone into that process. And behind that I'm currently watching there's a Netflix here at the moment called sprint in the lead up to the Olympics, it's about the fastest humans on earth. And you look at that and go, Hey, 10 seconds, you're sprinting. That looks amazing. You don't know the backstory, what it took and all that amount of time. And they could work four years for 0 .0001 of a second increase, which is so incremental, but that's the process of the work you have to put into it. And you might look at it and go, Hey, gold medal, where were you four years? It was like, it just, it really, and I guess it annoys me sometimes because

Hmm.

You know, when, uh, full disclosure, we were meant to record last week. Uh, and I basically, I couldn't record last week. I was so busy doing a whole lot of things that I've got. NOISE I had more tasks and time available and I knew I couldn't show up in the way that I needed to. And I wasn't feeling great. So I reached out to you and said, Lawrence, Hey, um, I can't, I can't do this today. You were really cool about it. You said, let's, let's leave it and move that. But why I share that is because. Last week was a phenomenal week for a whole lot of things that I've been working on that were all falling into place. Now you can look at that and go, dude, you've got, you're in a purple patch. You're doing really well. Things are looking easy. Not realizing how many balls in the air I was juggling and the up to it. So I think that that's, that was my motivation and going hard. Really loved our chat about this today.

Yeah. And I think that's, uh, we, as we reflect upon our life, we oftentimes we, I know we sure, I'm sure we have conversations and we talk about our, our lives with other people and, NOISE and, and you'd kind of really only show the highlights. We all, we kind of like all always look at successes and you know, in one of my groups, we, we kind of get them to share really in depth of their, you know, their growth on the terms of their wealth path and you know, what, what, how they got to their wealth and what's the inflection points and what's

Cough

everybody tends to do is we kind of tend to like all the right choices we made to get to those points. Um, but the, and, but what, why encourage them to do is to actually go, but let's also talk about those bad choices or the difficult choices or when things weren't going right, what were, what were they like? What were the failures and, but we don't tend to automatically think about them, right? I don't, you know, if I think back to my past and I don't really think about all the things, mistakes I ever made, unless you constantly, you know, Really hone in on them. So I think it's natural for us to kind of look at the highlights of our life and you know And then look at them without actually, you know remembering those lowlights also make a massive difference in terms of Of how we actually became who we are and you're right about the sprinters, you know I got to look at that now because I'm interested in that it went in terms of athlete Right

It's awesome. It's about a full part series. It's fascinating.

And it's I'm fascinated by the Olympics because it's four years you spend all that time training and especially the hundred meters you're talking like point zero one second and you got to be on all cylinders not about being fast but you got to be fast at that moment at that time at that race everything's got to go right for you you know we're talking a split second reaction time and you lose the race right and that's the fundamental that's why I think a hundred meter dash is such a phenomenal thing to kind of watch for people to kind of, you know, recognize that, you know, these professional athletes, they are, they're fighting for, you know, the smallest increments and the smallest margin. I mean, I was watching some of the tour de France when watching, uh, Cavaniish, uh, winning his, I think 35th, you know, um, stage. And it was like, you know, you gotta know when the sprint, like you just like, you know, traveled around for like bikes for, I don't know how many hours, and then you gotta prepare yourself to really go. Okay, the last 200 meters, when can I take off? NOISE And to win it, you're winning like by margins. Again, it's very similar to sprinting. And they make it look so easy when they win. It's like, oh, they did it. But all the things that have to happen leading up to that point, all of those things matter. And that's what we never really kind of give credit to. We always just see the end. We see the final product, the finished product. We never see the making of it. And I think that's why it's important for us to kind of look at and evaluate ourselves to compare or evaluate anybody, the product, the services, or the brand, or whoever you're kind of following to go like what actually made that person? What are the choices they made at the beginning of their careers to kind of lead up to that point?

Yeah. And anybody who's familiar with Australian folklore in the Olympics, you mentioned the Olympics. We went there with that. Steven Bradbury is a classic example in Australia where in the winter Olympics in the whole, I don't even know the speed skating rink that they're going around where he's in the final and, NOISE and in the final race, two or three of the leading skaters fall, trip over each other. And he just coasts across and wins, wins the gold medal.

NOISE Wins a gold medal.

Now, and everybody says, gee, that was lucky. And to a degree, sure. The gods were looking down on you at that moment. However, everybody forgets that he got himself to that final. He did all the work to put himself in a position where that was even a possibility because I got to tell you, if Stephen Bradbury was just a hack skater, NOISE that isn't going to, you're not going to get a gold medal as a result of that. But people don't see that and people don't appreciate the process. We look at. You know, someone puts out a viral video and it, and it, and it revolutionizes and the whole world sees it. And people think that that's the norm and the reality is not. And people set themselves up for disappointment. And then that's the expectation, not realizing the process of getting yourself in the arena is the work. Then what happens then there's timing and luck and all these things that you mentioned as well that are factors that come into play as well.

Yeah, Tom luck is Tommy and luck is definitely part of the role and we all have it. I'm sure I attribute a lot of my things a lot of my successes to a lot of dumb luck that actually happened or falling in the right place at the right time. But at the same time, you need to also balance that with I also had to be experienced enough or done enough work to get myself in that position to for that luck to happen as well. Right. So I mean, the classic example is Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. Sure, it's luck that they were born at the right age for at the time when computing was just hitting that moment. And it is luck that I think it was Bill Gates who happens to be at the one of the few Seattle high schools that actually had a computer in the 1970s, right? At the time that he was actually interested in computer. NOISE So yes, there's definitely luck. I don't think if there was in a different high school, And Bill Gates wasn't in that high school. We would never have had Microsoft, right? NOISE However, like you combine his interest in curiosity in computing, like same, same Steve jobs, combine that with the luck of having computers at that time, at that school, they were able to make something of it. And there was, there was a video, NOISE there was a viral video. This is going back probably 10, 10 years ago. There was a viral video of this guy. And I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was like something to do with the rainbow. And he saw this rainbow and he just filmed himself and he started crying and like, Oh my God, this is so beautiful. All right. So he does this and that video just went viral. Okay. That's a one hit wonder. Like sometimes you just you luck out and he tried to repeat that over and over again, but you can't because it was genuine in that moment. And it was just like, it's just that classic. It wasn't manufactured and he just you can't replicate that. Sure. You got a one hit. You got it. Great. but there was nothing behind it. NOISE Whereas contrast, around the same time, there was a girl who did makeup tutorials and one of her videos went viral. The only difference was that for her, because that video went viral, she actually had been spending, say, three to five years filming, doing makeups, you know, to look like Angelina Jolie or looking like this and looking like that. But she's been doing that all the way up, just the catalog of videos. And so when that one video finally hit, people just went back to the back catalog because she's been working at it. And she built a multimillion dollar makeup company from that. NOISE It wasn't because it was the one video, but it took her years to get to that point. And sometimes we can create videos for years and years and never hit viral once, right? We only hear about the ones that do hit viral. So sometimes you think, you know, like, let's take us for example.

Yes. Yeah. NOISE

For us, NOISE if you think about us, we can be on camera and we can do these podcasts, we don't have a script, and we just kind of riff, we just talk. And people go like, oh, you guys make it so easy. But you forget that how many years of being in front of this mic, being in front of a camera, I've been doing this for, God, at least over 10 years now, definitely over 10 years, probably 15 years, all that work. accumulate to this point and I still feel like I have so much work to do I'm such a rookie at this and But that's the thing no one kind of takes into consideration all those years of getting up to this point

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because, you know, when we went to, when we both flew to the UK recently and we both presented, I remember, you know, I heard people come over and go, Hey, loved how Lawrence spoke. It was amazing. It's so good. I wish I was as lucky as like that to do that. And I just, you know, I had these conversations. I've got, look, pretty much what you said. Do you realize the process that it took for the, to refine the craft, to get up and speak and talk and move people? NOISE There's a skill and an art in that. And you know, we've all done speaking and gosh, even can I remember us having a conversation. I go, okay, what could I do better? When I, when I spoke and you said, you can do this and this and this. I'm great. Awesome. Thanks. I take that on. Right. So now I'm going to go back next time and then refine that. But it's, it's the process of being prepared to keep doing it, being prepared to be lousy and going at, you know, and again and again and again, and refining that over a period of time, up until the point where you get up and people go, Why don't you make it look effortless? How do you do that? You're lucky you were born with this. It's like, not luck, man. I wasn't born with it. I've had to work at this. And you're looking at a snapshot in time of something that I'm executing and assuming that that was always like that. And that's not the case more often than not.

Hmm. NOISE No, and and and sometimes it's, but I think that's what's great about, you know, if I look at anybody like an athlete, we'll take an athlete or presenter, an actor, anybody who is an absolute genius expert in their domain. When we say, man, they make it look so easy. And when you say that, you know, that's what you should admire. You should admire that there's a lot of work that put into to that art, you know, being acting or that sport. Like if I watch Usain Bolt run, he's smooth, man. You know what I mean? You watch, you know, those marathon runners, they like their stride, you just go, man, I could even run that in 10 seconds. I couldn't keep up with them, you know, and you know, these weight lifters or whatever it is, whatever sport they just look like, man, that swing.

They glide, they glide. NOISE

You know, whatever, they just make it so natural. You know, I play obviously a lot of paddle, watch a lot of YouTube videos on paddle. You're like, man, that just look, it's like, it's just like, there's no effort, but that took how many thousands of hours of repetition to get to that form. NOISE And, NOISE but that's the dedication. And I think that's a compliment. When someone compliments you on something and, or when you are admiring someone, that's what I think. is should be taken into consideration is like you're basically making it look simple because you're admiring the amount of work that they put into to make that look so smooth.

Yeah, one of my grand masters in martial arts, not only now, but even before, NOISE always has had this theory that the more you know, the less you use. NOISE And so a lot of the times mastery and skill, we're talking not just in athletic, but across the board, you get so good at refining what works and where it works really well. You're really looking at impact over a whole lot of tools. And I've noticed that definitely like particularly in what I had done, I had identified the areas that give me the best results and outcome. And I've made sure I've refined those. NOISE So I, you know, particularly in Jiu Jitsu, for example, I'm not worried about knowing 75 different ways of doing things. I'm going to work out three and I'm going to be absolute world -class at that if I can be and find ways to link to my strength zone. NOISE Right. Bruce Lee famously said, I'm not worried about the person that could do, you know, 75

Hmm.

punches, I'm just looking at someone who could do one who's done it 10 ,000 times. And I'm paraphrasing butchering, but the principle is mastery is about refining the key things and not being worried so much about being able to do everything. It's about what helps you execute, execute at the highest level so that when the opportunities come and invariably will, you can take that opportunity and move on that because you have prepared for that. You've been waiting for that moment and that's finally arrived.

And it's the little things, right? So there's a famous coach, Nick Saban, uh, who is one of the most famous, um, college football coaches, uh, formerly from the Alabama and he's coach of several other, um, LSU, I think, and other couple of universities. And one of the things that he, he was playing, uh, against one of the teams that was a heavily favorite, uh, to win. And one of the things he realized one day was like, why are we focused on winning? Forget about winning. Let's focus on perfecting. a play, let's everybody just do their job, then just get the perfect play. Let's just run each play to its best perfection. And that's all they focus on. So they forgot about the game, they forgot about winning and losing, they just go, each play, we're just gonna execute this play perfectly. And they just trained to execute each of their play, their scripted to absolute perfection. And there was one of the biggest upsets in college football history. And it's about at the execution of perfection. And it's like the adding to all of that, that leads up to that point. And oftentimes we forget about how we need to do. I forget this. I remember I listened to it. I'm like, oh my God, there's so many things I'm just not doing right. Like, I was like, I don't, why am I not, because we just go on with our lives, right? Because we think that we get to the certain point in our life that we're going like, you know, let's just say whatever it is, doing videos, doing podcasts, adjusting or whatever, there's a point where you just go, you're so good at it. You just don't think twice about it. But that's when you, not improving, you kind of lose that skill when you're not really focusing on trying to improve that one little matter to make it even better than it actually already is. And there's this constant, I see that the people who do really, really successful or the constant obsession to be better at whatever they're trying to pursue. They're always trying to get this edge and making it better, making it better. And it reminds me of Will Godera, who used to own Elevison Madison Park. And they, you know, he wrote a great book called Unreasonable Hospitality. And there's a point where he has his restaurant won the number one restaurant in the entire world. Right. So he got from like number 50 to number one. And then after they won it, they closed the restaurant down. Reeve, like, like just really took it all down, reinvented the whole thing after they won the number one restaurant. It's like, that is someone to think, Oh, wow. They're thinking well beyond that. They're not just thinking about just being sitting on their laurels and just happy, happy with minimum one. They're trying to, how do we constantly improve? How do we step up? And there's a great Netflix show on that. It's called Seven Days Out, I think. And they do one episode on that one restaurant. And those are the things, right? That's the constant evolution of improving that, you know, these people who are making it look so easy, that's what they're doing. They're striving for perfection so that it feels easy. And that's actually, there's one point of difference there.

on that.

Sometimes we're trying so hard, it doesn't look easy. And the key is to actually, how do you try hard and create it to a way that it doesn't feel like you're trying? That is, I think, the element of perfection.

Yeah. And what, what I heard out of all that is what some of the greatest coaches that I've always had and also have studied. And that is they always say focus on process versus outcome, which is effectively what you were basically saying is concentrate the micro moments, the little victories, the process, the refinements, the skills and tools, the things that are within your control execute those to the, to, to the highest and best level of your skill. NOISE And they. will then link up and link up and link up to ultimately set you up for the outcome that you want. So effectively it's controlling the controllables of which the process is definitely the case. NOISE So, and you're right, you will see that. And sometimes, you know, sometimes in sport, people are out of form and sometimes you can say it not only just sport, but people, they're just trying too hard. They're quite often bringing their whole logical brain in there as opposed to focusing on the process focusing on what made them previously thrive in that area. You know, sometimes there's simplification that's required, not complication. So you don't need to overthink it and overanalyze it. You just go, what do I just need to take away? Or what can I subtract from this situation to get myself more into flow and decrease friction that's stopping me from executing at the high flow?

I think yes, I think in order to make things easy, we can really just go into some of that. I think the one of the things to make things look easy is that you have to have some sort of a plan. I think you're going to have to break it down into parts. Like one of the things that I try to do, you know, I'm not always great at this, but like when I try to go play paddle, like I'm trying to improve. But one of the things I try to do is pick one or two things. I actually probably just pick one thing I want to work on. Now I might not get that shot many times in the game, you know, over three games. But you know, when I do, when I do get that shot, I want to just like try to perfect that or like at least get better at that one shot. And you know, the other points would just play out as it is. But if you can kind of pick one thing to improve rather than trying to improve like five or 10 things at the same time, which is you never going to be able to you're kind of focusing on the one little thing that you want to do better. And I think your, your improvements will be, be extremely beneficial when you're concentrating on one thing to correct rather than trying to correct 10 things.

Yeah. And a big part of it, you're right, is what I've noticed is there's a principle called teacup, which is think correctly under pressure. NOISE There's a principle that I came across many, many years ago. And I see that play out now a lot now in, you know, in sport, in scenario training. We used to do it with, you know, people hate the idea of role playing, but there was scenario trainings. You prepare people for situations. Sporting teams replicate the last 10 seconds of a game, you know, And what they do is they put people in a hypothetical scenario to replicate it. So if they find themselves in that situation, they're just running the play. They're not having to think about, Oh, what do I do? The pressure, they're just drilling, drilling, drilling. NOISE And some of my great instructors always the same thing. They used to say, drillers are killers. And you would drill things to the point where you're taking it out of your head and so automatic, even to the point where what we do in Jiu Jitsu, for example, is we have what's called dead zones where You are put into the end of the line and you're starting from that position. So effectively you have to navigate your defense. And so if you find yourself in that situation, which is, you know, statistically not high percentage for you, if you can find a way out, you don't have to think about it. If you find yourself in that situation, you're just running the play. NOISE You've drilled it so many times. It's normalized in your body that you're not overwhelmed by the occasion, the emotion. So that's how and why.

Hmm.

That's how I think about it. You know, like great athletes, they've prepared for every contingency or most contingencies, even to the point where how they're celebrating, you know, walking up on the dice. They visualize it in their mind so many times that when it finally happens, they're comfortable in it. They look, they look like, Oh yeah, how did you do this? Did you ever think this would possibly happen? NOISE Duh, yes, I did. I've been dreaming about this for 30 years. You know, so to me, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but sometimes my mind's inane. questions I'll hear a commentator or a reporter ask someone who's achieved something phenomenal that they've probably dedicated a whole lot of their life to. And I've just gone, you're stating the obvious dude. That's what they've been running through their mind for years and years and years.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know who it was. Like one of the greatest hockey, one of the great hockey players. And, you know, he said that when he, when he was young and he scored his first goal, his first ever goal or one of the goals and he just celebrating like mad and his dad comes up to him after game. Like you can celebrate, but what do you like? Is that your only goal you're going to have in your life? It was like, and it's a, it's just like this whole, um, you know, it was kind of strong, but at the same time it's like, yeah, like you're not, you can celebrate. at the same time, just be also be aware that you don't overdo it, you know, because there's many more to come. And like that's, you're not expecting this is the last goal you ever gonna score. And it just reminds you of that kind of, you know, force of recognizing that, yeah, there's still more to learn. Like there's, you never gonna stop. And just because you scored a goal and there's so much to continually to improve on and to be better at. What is something that you have made something easy in your life that you were intentionally focused on? Is there anything that comes to mind?

Yeah. Um, and I was actually going to ask you a question. You just beat me to it as well. And it's probably linked up. NOISE So I think the area of gaining rapport and trust and communication is something I've really worked hard at because maybe it was a career of having people come into our office who may not have been aware of what chiropractic was, for example. And there's a natural fear doubt.

Hmm.

uncertainty that comes in their mind. And I really worked on having these micro moments of gaining trust in a nanosecond when someone was there. So I put a lot of focus in the subtle nuances in my tonality, in my words, in my body language and how I could gain trust in an instant so that people could suddenly automatically feel safe, comfortable in order to be open to whatever information that I had. NOISE And so how I wanted to reflect that back

same.

to you was you had a webinar today that you were running with Miles Upford, who, and it was about associates. And to me, that was the link. That's the part that I could see the gap between what I was thinking and the question that I had for you was to me, that's probably the biggest gap. If we're only just talking in that area, NOISE it's not being aware of the nonverbal communication and not aware of the subconscious conversation that's going on in someone's brain when they're interacting with you. So that to me was the gap or the battle to me was that ground that I chose to and wanted to narrow in order to build trust, which I think ultimately has served me well over time.

Yeah, okay. That's great. I mean, that's yeah.

So do you want to tell us about that podcast, sorry, the webinar you did today and perhaps how that may be relevant to what I've just shared and or what you feel you've worked on that you feel you could pass on or did pass on to people today.

Yeah, I think one of the things that challenges is that, you know, I've been coaching on, you know, a lot of people for quite some time. And one of the things that ultimately people have this expectation that I just got to learn a couple of things from, you know, for me, and then everything will be perfect. And everything will be great. And you know, business will be flying. And the reality is, is that there is no, I wish there was a, you know, a script or I wish there was a A blueprint that you can follow. And to an extent there is, there's a certain frameworks, a certain, um, you know, frameworks that you can, you need to kind of follow through, but like all frameworks, they only work if it's implemented appropriately by the person who's implementing it. And so, and they also have to be mentally and they got to fit that personality. They got to do certain things that, NOISE that sometimes need the most amount of work to actually make that framework work. And so if you think about the, the, you know, the. We can kind of talk about like the key elements and key characteristics for success in anything, you know, whether it be business, life, you know, being a dad or being a father or whatever, there's certain key characteristics. But the problem is, is that the starting point for each person is so different. You know, you don't know what their starting point is. Of course, certain people make it look easy because they've already worked on themselves enough to get to a point where all they need to do is just, they need just to finish off and taper off a few things. where some people are so far behind because they haven't done the work leading up to it, it feels like failure to them. It feels like I'm not executing, I'm doing, I'm saying you, I'm following your steps one to 10 and they're not working. Why is that? It's because to finish step one, there's all these subtleties that you need to have. What you talked about like tonalities and like you mentioned about tonalities and speaking to people and communicating. Yes, that is one aspect. And I will say if you peel the layer a little bit deeper, It's like in order for you to draw out the right tonality to speak with, to draw out the right words and communication and communicate someone to inspire them, to motivate them to take action on something, you actually have to be a really good listener, which means you actually have to listen to what they're saying, but not listen to what they're saying, but you go listen to what they're saying and then interpret what are they really saying, right? So that's a skill in itself, right? But...

Or what the nuts are in? NOISE

what they're not saying exactly. And so like, you got to peel out those layers, but that takes a lot of experience. And there is no script for that, right? Because it's got to be learned by over, by putting yourself in those situations, and seeing a lot of rejection, seeing a lot of patterns and human psychology, like, but how do you pack all that in, right? So people don't, unfortunately, don't put the time and effort to want to learn that. but that's where the elements of the change is happening. When clients of mine, I see the people who are really successful, they're willing to question, they're willing to question themselves and look deeper and not just follow the instructions, but you really start to, because I push them on, NOISE why are you thinking this way? Have you considered a different way? And they start, really start to question their whole paradigm. And when you shift the paradigm, then you have an opportunity. to shift that paradigm just a little bit, maybe five degrees. And then they execute trusting that that's gonna hopefully work and then realizing and gain momentum and confidence and certainty that it is working and all of a sudden, you know, six months down the track, they're in a totally different position because of that. But it takes their ability to be able to go, I'm willing to give this a go, I'm willing to fail, I'm willing to look stupid or I'm willing to take a chance that. that this may actually work. Until someone's open to do that, I don't think change is actually happening.

Yeah, I think that's a great point you raised because I've always been fascinated with quantum leaps that people make. I always look at this and go, NOISE you know, good to great was Jim Collins's book really well. And he talked about companies that on the S &P 500 on the stock exchange were tracking pretty consistently over a period of time. And then suddenly have this huge jump in profitability that was just off the charts. And then like, how does that happen? And it's usually has to be some kind of shift, like you just said, you know, I like the idea that you said, you sometimes just got to question your own assumptions, look at your whole frame and paradigm and how you view the world and by changing one or two things. That's why I always get excited about, I get less excited about coaching about systems and process per se, because there's a linearity around that, but it's an important structure and whatever. And that's the frame and everybody we go through, we go through that. But the part of me that really gets excited at the point in the plan where you shift one or two key things about the way you think, you now suddenly are elevating possibility thinking that you didn't think possible. And so all the systems that you used and platforms we use were based on the previous version and identity and reality of yourself. And you were following a particular order, but suddenly the hockey stick approaches that always fascinate me is what was the difference that made a difference? And a lot of times it's either the identity upgrade or like you just said is challenging how they do everything and asking the question, is there another way that I could be looking at this that would make a difference?

And surrounding yourself, I know we did a podcast on this, but like surrounding yourself with people who think differently than you, NOISE I mean, man, that is such a game changer. NOISE I mean, I guess I'll use this as an example. Like right now I'm spending a lot of time because part of my role is through Tiger and my role is to facilitate these conversations with high net worth individuals.

Hmm.

A lot of these conversations around the, you know, some of these individuals are so fascinating. I mean, meeting members from all around the world and we're talking, you know. money that I just never even thought possible. NOISE Like, and it is just crazy to think, you know, eight figures, nine figures are the norm. And you're like, how do they, like, that's not even within my sphere. But when you actually go like, they're just normal. They're just like people like me, you and I, they're literally like neighbors, you would never know who they are. But then you go, oh, it's because they think that way. And they're surrounding themselves with people who always think that way. And now I'm in that sphere. Like it's actually putting me in a conundrum of going, oh, okay. I've been thinking really, really small, right? Like really, really small. NOISE And it really puts me in that position of going like, well, what's next? Like, what do I do next? What am I supposed to do next? NOISE And it's questioning, not questioning my every move or anything. I'm not like, you know, unsatisfied with my life. It's just more like, it just puts into context if I'm going to do something or start something. I don't want to think about it as being small. I need to almost think bigger than, than what it is because of the people I'm just surrounding myself with. And they just play it a different game. And so putting yourself in that situation where a higher level people who have high level thinking really does change how you think and how you behave and how you make decisions. Cause it's just filters in. Cause you just start realizing that, you know, like it's no different than as an athlete.

Mm.

you start hanging out with pros and you watch them practice, you watch them work out and you watch them do things, you go, oh, like, I'm just not even, like, I'm doing like 1 % of what they're doing. And so you start to realize you need to step up the game. I'm sure that's the same when you're working out with someone in Jiu Jitsu, like you start working out with someone who's way better than you, you start to see like, oh, like, that's why they're a master. That's why they are where the position that they are, because they have... their work habit or their brain or something in their head is just different. They're just wired differently. And you start to see that and you start to go, okay, all right, I get it now. There's something that I'm missing or how can I even get to 10 % of that? And you start to look within yourself to start looking for the improvements that you could be making.

Yeah. You know, it's one of my favorite quotes regarding this is by Oliver Wendell Holmes, who was a judge. And he said that the human mind once stretched beyond original, its original dimensions, never, sorry, NOISE beyond the human mind, once stretched beyond its limits, never returns to its original dimension. So effectively, if your mind's been stretched, it's very difficult for it to go back to what it was like, because you know what's possible. And that's where I hear when you're talking about.

Hmm.

the group of people that you are surrounding with, uh, with right now, because you're suddenly questioning not the, what you're doing, but rather you, you know, like possibility thinking that's really what I hear. And suddenly it's like, man, I used to think this, but wow, that's, there's just another level and another level. NOISE And something happens to us when we do that. It was.

Yep. Yep.

It's what happened for me and you, we've discussed this with you as well in coming to the other side of the world. Suddenly we look at this and go, the world's so much bigger than you give it credit for. And at the same time it's so much smaller. But if you stretch yourself, it's very difficult to go back to where you were, to go back to common neighborhoods and all those kinds of things, because you've outgrown that in and of itself. It doesn't mean that they were wrong. It doesn't, they were just appropriate at the time. But you now.

Hmm.

have outgrown that environment by virtue of the identity of the person who now I am.

Yeah, and I was talking to my son about this and there's points of where he kind of misses Australia a little bit. But in my mind, I also go, you don't really remember. Like he's young, he's 13 now, he was 11 when, 10 and 11 when he left. I think the memory of what you thought was Australia is probably not the same as what you think it is now. The friendships that you had, they're all different now. It's not the same and I think, But he only remembers what he knows, right? At that moment in time. As an adult, we can kinda extrapolate that and go, okay, yeah. For example, Perth, I lived in Perth for 12 years. It was great, it was a beautiful city. I loved being in Perth. I loved Perth as a city. NOISE At that time, would I ever go back? I don't think so. You know what I mean? I would never say never, but I don't think I would be ready to go back, even though I love the city. Nothing against the city, but it's just. But because my mind, it's like you said, stretched a little bit and explored different parts of the world, there's other parts I'd rather maybe consider looking at. And again, nothing wrong with being in Perth or being in whatever city I would name. It's the point of where once you're stretched out, like your mind or the experiences of change, you start desiring different things. You start craving for different things. NOISE And it's so easy for us, you know, being in Europe to go back to the cities we've already been to, the Paris, the Rome. you know, like you go back and go, oh, remember the time we were in Nice and we got nice to go back. And then you realize, I'm like, wait a second. So we went back to Venice a second time. Um, you know, four years later, it was just recent last year. I think last year we went to Venice and we went back. It was, it was nice. But then we were comparing that experience to the experience we had four years ago. And then I realized I'm like, well, Venice is nice. I do like it, but it was actually very magical the first time we see it. Cause it was just so amazing. And I would definitely go back. NOISE But Karen and I made an agreement that we really should try to explore cities that we've never been to, rather than trying to go back and relive the cities that we've already been to. Because there's so much more. And when we tend to do that, it's like, your eyes open up and you're like, wow, like, never would have thought to come to a place like we were in, Bern. Switzerland, I never even heard of Bern, Switzerland. Didn't know that's where Roger Federer is from, right? Like it's, you know, like these things that you just never think about because you wouldn't have considered it. Cause most people were like, when they think of Europe, they go to the major cities, the Paris, the London, you know, maybe Barcelona and Rome. Like those are the major cities, but they don't really explore other than that. Like when I first moved to Portugal and said I was moving to Portugal, I'm sure majority of people are going, where? Like why? Like why? NOISE You know. You know, and like, why would you move? Like, what is it a country? It's like, you know, you mean that little where Ronaldo's from? Yes. You know, like, because people wouldn't, wouldn't have considered it wasn't on people's radars. Like it is a bit more now, um, as more and more people move here, but before it wasn't on people's radar. And it's like this unusual place. And I think that's the thing is that when you're absolutely right about stretching that limit is that you start to realize there's so much to explore, so much around the world to explore that was untapped. But unless you're willing to kind of give it a go, I'm not sure how, why we got into this conversation from making it look easy, but it's, that's sort of where I'm thinking.

Yeah. But in terms of like, NOISE I can see the link. I can see the link because you know, you talked about your target 21 group in Portugal or you're surrounding yourself with high net worth individuals and you're facilitating discussions with people who are movers and shakers right now. Let's say hypothetically out of those conversations, something eventuates an opportunity comes up for you that pays off and is great and it's value adding to your life and world. Someone can look at that and go. Gee, you're really lucky, Lawrence, that worked out really well for you. Not realizing that in order to get into that room with those people, you had to pack up from Australia, move to the other side of the world to create street cred. Cause we've talked about it before, when we were in Australia, we had, we had at least a level of awareness and people knew us. We came back to, we came to Europe almost in some degrees starting at base camp, right? And we had to just suck that up and go, yeah, sure. We can leverage the relationship we have. But we were like, Dude, you're the new kid on the block here. Nobody knows you. You can either stay like that or get out there and hustle and find out what's going on. So now you find yourself within a period of a couple of years, you're in an environment in there. Is it luck? No. NOISE If something opened up or if someone was just watching the highlights of yours, they go, look at Lawrence. He's doing this and this and this. Not realizing what it took to get into the room to open up that possibility. So to me, I always look at the backstory. and the pathway and the decisions and the challenges that people had to overcome to then put themselves in a position where an opportunity presented itself. So that to me is you created that and good on you if something comes out of that in that possibility. However, to look at just the outcome would be to totally dismiss the process that it took for you to get to that point.

Yeah. NOISE So having said that, what do you think people should be? Is there certain areas that you think are a skill that people should really spend or most people listening to this podcast should really spend some time mastering because that skill will take them further in their life, no matter where, whatever profession they're in or no matter what kind of life they choose to live that these essential skills are so important. Like what would, I guess it would be almost like what skills would you teach your kids or tell them or hope that they would master in order for them to be successful without, to make it look easy, right? Like what skill would they, we want master to make it look easy.

Great. Great. To me, I love it. Great question. Cause I've had this conversation with my kids before and I've always wanted them to be independent and self sustainable. So that was always, we've helped prepare them for that. To me, the number one skill that I would hope they have, and they both actually have is the capacity and ability to sell. Actually have sales skills and tools because that is transferable to any area of life. You know,

Mm -hmm. Mmm. Mm.

You know, you and I both had to sell our respective beautiful wives, NOISE a vision of their life that included us in it. That's the biggest sale jobs that sometimes you'll ever do. Right. So to me, but, but in order to, NOISE I, I'm not going to get my head back. However, you know, but, NOISE but honestly, the same thing, when someone comes in and comes to you, you know, particularly we have a lot of health care providers in this room, you're selling.

Ha ha ha. Oh yeah. I am going to get better looking, I swear. NOISE

a vision of someone's health and potential to them, a higher and better version of themselves that you can connect your product and services to. When you're selling your kids on the benefits of going to sleep early, you're also using sales techniques. And the beautiful thing about why I love sales is because your capacity to basically raise capital or earn income is untapped. It's the only skill that I know that is untapped.

Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.

by virtue of what you can sell. You can sell a dream, you can sell a vision, you can sell a product or a service, and your capacity to be able to communicate that confidently gives you basically runway. Anyway.

That is so true. That is so true. That's very, very good. I like that a lot. I never thought about that, but it's, and as you said that, I just realized like I had no, well, I can say no. I was pretty bad at sales, but I had to figure out, because I was just reflecting back on my career. I'm like, yeah, I had to figure it out. Like I had to go through a lot of trial and error to really be able to sell anything or anybody. But yeah, you're absolutely right. It's, it is a.

Yeah. NOISE

definitely an inherent and important skill. I would say for me, I would say very similar, but just on a different degree is the ability to network and connect with people. And I was very introverted. I don't think I did a really great job when I was younger. And it was something that I had to really, really work hard on in terms of my ability to be able to relate to people or talk to people. And I had to really... force myself into situations that were uncomfortable. And I still am, like I still struggle a lot with it today, like strangers and stuff. But it's something that I think it is an important element of being able to get yourself in the right rooms or being connected or being considered. And I think that's an important, but as I saying that, I think one of the essential skills is always be, have integrity and always be intentional about being truthful and honest. I think it starts from there because I think if you are have a strong intention to be honest and be generally who you are and be authentic and I'll hit that use that word can be over you sometimes, but truly who you are and represent who you are, then I feel like that goes a long way when it comes to networking and selling because the reality is people feel that energy that you actually have their best interest at heart rather than, you know, doing it for you. So I think that.

Yeah.

combination is such a vital component and key component to what we're talking about.

I totally agree. Totally agree. And one of the sales trainers that I have done numerous programs with always said, and this is the thing, people hear the word sales and selling and they think it's sleazy, right? And that's not how it should be. NOISE Like selling, you know, this was the key distinction that I heard was if you know your products and services or your solution are a match for what someone needs, then you can in all integrity offer your solution.

Yeah.

as a natural way of helping that person out. It's when it becomes sleazy or unethical when you know that it's not a match and you're trying to stitch somebody up, right? So a lot of the greatest sales people who are able to execute this very well are ones who can connect and sort of determine people's priorities and values and link their products and services to that ethically. So it's a really good interaction and they feel good about themselves because they found a solution and it helps someone.

Hmm.

And people feel really good about that because they know that someone's interests were looked after. NOISE So that to me, that's what helped me because interesting enough, by nature, NOISE I'm also introverted as well, right? But I have found that when I can link up what I do with something that helps somebody else, NOISE I can get out of my own way and I can tell them what they need to hear rather than what I'm worried about what they'll think about what I'll say, because I'm driven by helping someone.

Yes.

And I'm helping you by sharing what I know and it's up to you, you know, take it, leave it. That's okay. It's not on you, but I have a, you know, not so much a moral obligation, but if I know something that can help you and I hold it back, NOISE I'm actually holding out on you. So I have gotten past the point of my own resistance to share what I know because I'm doing it for them, not me.

Yeah. And that's the, you know, the, one of the tricks of being a speaker, right. And one of the tricks of being a speaker is what I call, you know, flip the spotlight. You know, when the spotlight is on you, it's a speaker itself and you know, you thinking like, okay, oh my God, I don't worry about my shirt or what I'm going to say or how I'm going to look like it's all about you. NOISE Then your intention isn't true. Like it's not, it's not that authentic. And the people can resonate with you in a certain way, but it'll be so much better. Like usually when I get nervous, I start thinking about all these things I'm gonna say or not do or square screw up. And I went, Oh, wait a second here. It's not about me. If I just flipped the spotlight to the audience and go like, what are they? What, what can I say that would move this audience to get what they want? And when they leave here, they're going to be in a better position than they were coming into the room. Then all of a sudden, like, like you said, you just take the pressure off yourself. Now it's all about them. Then you know, it doesn't really matter. You don't care anymore. You care more about serving. And I find that every time I do that in sales, or in anything that I do is like it's always about the other person, NOISE then I'm not lost in my own head. Because the only reason why I start worrying about things about how I look or how I sound is usually because it's about me. As soon as I let go of that ego and really focus on the other person, then it doesn't matter so much about me, then I'm really freely giving fully to the experience.

Mm. I think that's a good prep summary summary to me. Summary to me is I think everything we've said articulated. I think that there's a process to mastery and whatever that mastery is. And I believe that most often, like you will always get these outliers. You will get the exceptional situations where someone has an asymmetrical outcome based on effort. The law that I.

All right, so summary, summary.

I do know is that there's usually process and outcome. And so when you focus on the things that you do and you do those well and to the best of your ability over time, you open up opportunities and when the opportunities are there, you step into them and you take them. That to me is how overnight success potentially happens. But more often than not, success is set up because you've done the work to prepare yourself for that. What about you, Lawrence?

Yeah, I think the leading, the last statement I would just made is everything that we've said, I feel like it leads up to the point of asking, you know, you, the listeners to ask yourself, what is it, what's one thing that you want to be known as it comes easy to you? And what are you willing to work on? What are you willing to commit to doing? And really putting the, finding the courage and finding the ability to learn and focus on, to improve on so that it makes it look easy to everybody else. And I think that's, if you can do that, then all of a sudden, you know, you're mastering a skill, like you said, and really moving towards a live, lead leading to a better life, I guess, but also know, according to what we talk about a lot in this podcast is that it's not going to go perfect. And it's the art of navigating through that and creating that part of success. So I hope you guys enjoyed this podcast is Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection and hope you enjoy this particular podcast. Please always share this with someone else. I would love to have more people listening to what we're talking about. And until next time, we'll see you. And hopefully that your journey is always full of imperfection. Talk to you soon.