The Power of Challenges

Welcome back to Wabi Sabi, the podcast, Jim and I are here. Jim, it's great to see you again on this beautiful podcast and we got a hell of a topic today.

We do Lawrence welcome and I'm gonna go I'm gonna start straight away the burpee king what's going on? What is going on with these burpee challenge? I see here doing

Hahaha Oh, you can see I got a little bit of sweat here and I'll tell you, explain a little bit why. But so a friend of mine the other day, and he just asked me, he goes, hey, do you wanna join in on a burpee challenge? I'm like, what's a burpee challenge? And I'm like, oh, challenge. Anytime you hear the word challenge, you go, oh, go. Like it's not gonna be easy, right? So it.

Yeah, I know. Yeah, I'm just gonna stop you there and say the words burpee and challenge should never come together, right? But anyway, I digress

Yeah, yeah. So, so he said, he said, it's 2000 burpees in a month, you know, over 30 days. And I'm like, so it's, it's a mental math, right? You, that's the first thing you do. You do some mental math. Okay. It's like, okay, that's 67, 67 burpees a day. So that's 2000 burpees, 67 a day. I'm like, that's doable. But then you go 67 burpees. 67 is a lot.

Of course you do.

but every day for 30 days consistent. That's a lot. But then I'm like, you know, it's for a good cause. It's for the UK Armed Forces and, you know, for their veterans and stuff. I'm like, but you still got to deal with the burpees. Right? So I was like, especially if you want to help people, you're like, I might just donate and it might be just going. But no, I said, you know what? I'm not going to shy away from a challenge. I like this. It's a physical challenge. I got to work out anyways. And so I thought, wait, I mean, I'm due for a challenge. I think the last time, I think the last couple episodes, we talked a little bit about.

Mmm, yeah, yeah. Heheheheh.

you know, sometimes we're just in a little bit of a, not in a rut, but I just knew I needed a little shift, you know, a little bit of a spark. And I thought, you know, last time I went through that I needed a spark, you know, I did the 75 hard, and this is, I think this is one of those things. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna take on a challenge. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna do 100 burpees. And that way I can do this in 20 days, right? So I'm like, I can do that. I can have Monday to Friday, you know, weekends free. I can do it for over four weeks. I'm like, that's doable, that's doable.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

So that's how it got started. And so day one, you know, first up, you know, day one, we put a, you know, a hundred burpees. I'm like, done, no problem. Like I smashed it out, actually. I was like, I want to see how fast I can do this. I got it in like six minutes and 30 seconds. I get 50 unbroken and then the rest would just kind of chip in a way. Cause I know how, you know, it's like chip, okay, 20. And then comes to tens and then you go fives and you just like, hang on, right? Then to ones.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Singles and then you do it singles.

Right, right, exactly. So, and that was after like a two hours of paddle and I'm like, okay, I was like, okay, I can do this. Like, it's less than 10 minutes. You know, I told my friend, like, you can do this in less than 10 minutes. And he goes, you know, like, so that's now that we set certain goals. So here's the lesson, right? What I've just told you, I probably have three lessons already just based on what I said. One is there's a challenge. And I think challenges reset you is really important. I think challenges reset people because it forces you to commit to something. And we've been talking about commitment quite a bit. In order for us to make change, you have to have commitment and that commitment to something and committing to a group, committing to a friend, even if it's just one person committing to my friend. Yes, I'm going to join this challenge. He puts me in this WhatsApp group, which has like 15 people. All of a sudden now you've got accountability, right? So now you can't escape. Well, you can't escape, but like you have accountability. So now you're not really just fighting for your friend, not even, you're not fighting for yourself. You're not fighting for your friend, but you're also fighting the resistance of like how you show up to the rest of the group. So now you're just more incentive.

Mmm, yeah.

I even recruited someone else, right? It's like, hey, you want to join the pain cave? Let's go do this, right? And I recruited two more people. So now, I don't know, I think we got 17 people in this group and every day we're just posting, you know, quick videos, you know, and that's pretty cool. So the second thing was breaking it down, right? So the second lesson is breaking it down. Like take a challenge and go, okay, well, don't forget about the 2000. Like literally just, that's, you know, you're going to have to get there. So I think this is a helpful thing when you, when you think about.

Hmm. Yep. I like it. Yeah.

you know, any challenges that you have a vision, you have a goal, right, which is what we're all kind of dream for, but you have to just let it go, right? And you gotta go, you're gonna have to chip away because it's gonna take a long time. So breaking it down to like 100 or 67 or whatever the goals are, it's such an important element in the process. And then committing to that and then just learning to chip away. And then playing, the third thing I would say, and I'll let you speak in a second, it's which is like playing a game within yourself.

Yeah.

Like I didn't only have to do 67, but I go, no, I think I can do 100, but then I won't. I want to create a mini game now to go, how fast can I do a hundred? Right. How fast can I do a hundred? Meaning like, so I, you know, got six 31. I'm like, Oh, in a month's time, if I keep this up, I think I can break five minutes, you know, like in my head. Anyways, and I really did the calculation, which is I think it's a little bit not impossible. I know nothing's impossible, but I think it's going to be a bit of a stretch to do that. So it's like creating a mini game. So now I have a mini game within the big game.

Hmm. Yep. Yeah.

And I think that game is really a mini game to the game of life. So I sort of see that as the challenge of how it's been impacting me over the last, well, six days. Seven days, one day seven.

Yeah. And I love it because I looked at that as well. I was monitoring when you first went up there. I said, that's really cool. And I just did some quick maths when I went, he's ahead of schedule. So there's obviously a strategy. He's thought about this. He's not going out too hard. If I know Lawrence, I know he's thought it through. So a couple of things I was really interested in and fascinated by because yeah, same thing I've done challenges. What I always am fascinated by. Is the Lawrence the day before the challenge and the Lawrence the day after the challenge, because it's something like you, you were already active, right? You're already doing things. You've now taken something upon them, but something shifts in us. When we do that, it's almost like nothing else matters. I've got to punch out my, my burpees. That's get done. But how many people until they make that decision to go, that's it, I'm going to do it today's the day start. They know a hundred burpees are possible.

Mmm... Rr. Yeah. Yep.

or they're there for the taking, but they don't do them. But something energetically happens the moment you go, I'm in, I'm in boots and all. Yes, you've got your commitment groups and whatever. Tell me about that and how you feel you've changed yourself.

Yeah, so I, okay, so there's, there's several, I think there's several pivotal moments prior to the challenge starting. So first of all, it's the first, the first moment is actually when you're my friend asked me, right? So whenever time you are confronted with a challenge, or a challenge is presented in front of you, so let's use challenge as the word because it's important to recognize that a challenge means that something difficult, it's not easy to do, we're not talking like what do you have for breakfast this morning and deciding what you're gonna have. It's like something, it literally forces you to recognize that you have to put in some intention and focus and you have to really change some of your identity in order to complete this challenge, right? And so whether you complete it or not is relevant. It's more that you have to, you know, there's something has to switch in you in order for it to accomplish. So that's the first thing. And right away, you're confronted by, should I do this or should I not? And I think depending on the state of mind in your art, at least for me, it was depending on the state of mind I was in, most people, I mean, I've been in a situation where like, the hell no. Why would I wanna do that? Like, it doesn't seem fun. Why do I need it? And I think that's important realization, because if it was easy, you probably would have said yes easily. And it wouldn't necessarily be a challenge. So do you see what I mean? So this is where the critical part is like,

Yep. Yeah, yeah, go on.

the challenge has to confront you and you have to feel a part of you going, I don't wanna do this. And I think that's the part that is really challenging. That's the part when you gotta really make awareness of yourself and going, maybe there's something there. Why not? The second moment I think, once I accept it, which takes a lot, took me a couple of days to say yes. And once I accept it, now all of a sudden, there's a switch that goes, okay, I'm all in.

Yeah.

Now I have to rationalize now all the, like, you know, during this moment, rationalizing my wife and my family and like, what's how much time is going to cost me and how am I going to do this? When am I going to do this? I'm already worked out like four times a week. Plus I got two or three times worth of paddles a week. Like where am I going to fit these hundred burpees in, you know? And, and so sometimes, like, I mean, I just think about these things. Some people just go, I don't care. I'll fit it in. Right. But for me, I just kind of like logically got to go through all that process. So yeah, so it becomes like, I think we've gone through this four C thing.

Hmm. Let's review this because someone may not have heard this before.

you know, before with Dan Sullivan. So, yeah. So Dan Sullivan, you know, my former coach in Toronto, so she's a coach, he talked about these four Cs and basically first C is commitment. You have to commit to something. And once you commit to something, something happens, which is called fear, which I already described to you. Fear, you just like go, oh, I don't know if I can do this. So then you have to, number two, you have to find the second C, which is you gotta have to muster up some courage that you can, you know, go through this. So that's the process. I was committed and then I'm like, oh crap, what did I do? So now I have to muster some courage. And then the third thing that you have to do is capabilities. So now you have to figure out like, how are you gonna do this? Like if I didn't know how to do a burpee, then I probably need to figure out how to do a burpee. Or if, for me, at least I've done burpees a long time. So when I just go strategically, what's the best way to minimize impact when doing burpees, for example, right? And so like a lot of people who are unfit doing this challenge right now, I don't think they understand what they got themselves into. Because I feel like I'm relatively fit. And you know, this, you know, I can pass this, no problem. But it's still a challenge for sure. But for someone who's unfit, 100 burpees is a lot. Like it is a grind, you know, it's not like, it's not just a five minute, 10 minute job here. Like it is a grind for if you've never done a burpee before. So I think that, so then you got to figure out the capability. So I have a friend of mine who's like, he accepted my challenge, which I was really surprised. And

Yep.

Then he goes and literally he did 33 the first day. Cause he miscalculated. He thought it was a thousand. So I remember tech, I would text it. Yeah. I texted him on day two. I'm like, Hey, did 33, was that really hard for you? Or was it just that you just want to slow it, you know, slow pace. And he's like, it goes, no, it was hard. I did 10 and I was like really bad. I'm like, okay, well listen, I was just like being gentle. I'm like, just, just letting you know, like you need to do 67 a day. So, um,

He's already behind. He's already behind.

you know, you might want to step up the volume because this is going to hurt a lot if you don't catch up. So if you're too far behind, like it's just going to be painful the second half of the month. And he's like, oh crap, I miscalculated. So he's like, thank God I caught him on day one. But he, like him, he's like, I'm struggling to do 10. Like it's like taking his breath away. I'm like, okay, well here's the strategy. And this is the capability, right? I just basically said, you know, do 10 at a moment. Like do 10, take a break, do something else.

Yeah. Yeah.

come back to do 10s like you now you just got to do sets of 10 sets of 10s, right? Break it down to small chunks, right? You don't have to be, you know, doing all 100 all at the same time, right? Don't be an idiot like me, like just, you know, sometimes you just need to chunk it down even further. So I think that's the capability. So commitment, you got to find courage, then you figure out your capabilities. And then once you have done that, now we're all getting confidence, we're all getting confidence that we can do this now we're day seven or quarter way in.

Yeah, that's breaking it down.

And if you're close to or beyond the mark, you're like, this is not a problem, you know? And I think those are four important things to steps. When it comes to finding confidence to do something, oftentimes people are looking for confidence first and then doing it. What Dan Sullivan talks about is that confident comes last. Commitment comes first, then courage, then capabilities, then you combine confidence.

Yep. Yeah, because once you're all in and you say, yes, I'm doing it, you'll work out how to do it. You'll just, as you said, break it down, come up with a strategy, dig deep, keep going. And, and, and you said the more you do, the better you get. It's, uh, it's fascinating. I, when you were saying about your, your friend who did the 33 on that day, I'm not sure if you've ever seen a movie with Rowan Atkinson when, when he's at Mr. Bean, uh, the actor. Right. So there's a, there's a skit. that I've seen him do when he's doing a test. And I thought of your friend straight away. He's writing a test and he's just relaxing, chilling out. He's thinking, I've got this all under control. And then with about five minutes to go, he turns his page over and goes, oh, there's another sheet, oh no. And he's got to basically go crazy. And I had this vision of your friend and thank goodness you told him because he would have had to do a thousand in like three days or something otherwise. So that was really helpful.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I've gone through that in real life. I remember writing tests and then, so that's not just the Mr. Bean, but I've definitely been in a situation where I've forgotten the last page because I didn't turn it and you're like, oh, panic mode as you're reviewing it. Like, oh man, it's brutal, brutal.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. That's a heart. No, your heart sinks. Yeah, that's, that's not good. So, but there's, there's two strategies, right? That you can do this. Some people who will go stick right on the 67. You have gone, I'm going to go harder. I personally, that's what I would do as well. I just want to get a couple in the bank and just feel like, okay, I've got this under control, so for something, some reason, something happens, it's, it's buying, it's building in a buffer, right? Which is.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

This is why this is, this is like so transferable to other areas of your life where you go, okay, if I have to finish off a task by a month, if you're an assignment or a project or whatever, what am I going to do? Am I going to waste a lot of time and then have to go crazy peddle them out at the start or do I want to get ahead of it? Because I don't know what may come up. There may be uncertainties. There may be things that take me off track for a little while. I may travel and I do all these things, but I'm still, I'm still under the agreement. I've just. fit it into my life. So I'd love to hear you've done that.

Well, you know, what's interesting is that I'm traveling this month. I'm away for a whole entire week. And so I just, that's why I want to create that buffer. Cause I don't like, I don't know how I'm going to be when I'm traveling. Can I actually do this? And so, but on top of all that, it's funny, like, so, okay, let's go through the journey. So I started, I told you, I started on day one, I got to the hundred. So here's another trick. And I wish I, you know, I'm going to start to apply this in my real life, right? Because I do it in like my, my athletic or like my athletic abilities. the strategy, I do it there, but I don't apply it necessarily in real life all the time. And I wish I would do this. So I'll explain it. So I don't know if you're like this, Jim, I think you, I have a hint that you would. So I did 100 the first day, then, then my brain just goes, well, it's, I, I call this stealing. Okay. Stealing your reps. And, and the reason why I call it stealing your reps, it's like, well, if I just did like 125 on day two.

Okay.

just push a little harder on day two. I'm like now 25 up, right? Like, you know, so I'm like, but if I did that on the third day as well, like I'm now 50 up. And so if I did this four days in a row, I'm like, actually I bought myself one extra day. Like, so like my brain kind of goes there, like I'm stealing reps and that's where it did. And so day two, I actually did 150. So instead of 125, which I was intending to, I'm like, I feel pretty good. I might as well go for the 150. And so now I'm like, oh, now my brain's reset another thermostat.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. it

up there. It's like not even just going a quarter up, like 25% up. I'm actually literally just 50% more than I did in day one. And I'm like, oh, if I did this 150, I can get this done in 13, 14 days. And that's how my brain worked. And so I think applying it to real life, it's like, where can you break sort of like, if you think of the pattern what we just did, where can real life in your business or your goal of, sure, on your journey of trying to achieve your vision?

Yeah. Yeah, same.

You break it down to smaller chunks and you break it down to even smaller chunks. But how can you break, once you get down to the smallest units of chunks that you can break down to, how can you steal a little bit? Like how can you steal a little bit of buffer? And I think all of a sudden you're just, you're only looking for 1%, right? And I don't need Zach's stat on this, but I think, I'm trying to remember the book's name, but Atomic Habits, I think he talks about like, if you just improve 1% a day, like over a year, just 1%, which is not a lot, like 1% a day. You are...

Yep.

end up from memory and I could be quoted wrong. So please correct me. I believe you will be 34 times better in one year. Right? Not 34%. 34 times that's 3400%. And I think that's fascinating to be able to do that. And so I'll finish this and I'll let you comment on this. So I think day two, three, four, I did 150. And then yesterday, I'm like, I did like a nine, I did 150 anyways in the workout because the workout had pushups and I hand-hand-release pushups. I'm like, I went to the coach, I'm like, it was a test day. I'm like, I don't care about the test score. Can I just do burpees instead of the pushups? Because I'm like, I'm doing that same motion anyways. I'm like, kind of, right? I just got to do an extra motion of jumping up. I'm like, can I just do, and yeah, he's like, whatever. And so I actually ended up doing like 60 in the warmup, 90 in the...

Yeah. Anyway, yeah, yeah. Yep.

And during the workout with amongst everything, I got 150. I'm like, I'm already 158 down. I'm like, I can do another 50. You see how like, and it's only day six, right? It's only day six. And I literally ended up finishing 200 yesterday. And so which made me average out the, the 150 consistently over the six days. So yeah, so that's, that's steel. That's called stealing.

Hmm. Yep. Yeah. So thanks for explaining that. And in short answer, I'm a hundred percent like that as well. Hundred percent. Like, so there's a couple of things that I wanted to comment on was, a colleague I know always allocated, his guilty pleasure, he calls it, is golf. And anybody who loves, who plays golf, knows that you need to allocate a certain amount of time to play golf. And with a busy schedule, it's not always easy. So what he always did is he always had tasks and roles that he had allocations for. So he said, I'm gonna do this and it's gonna be two hours. And he would work like crazy to come in at one hour 35. So in his mind, he had 25 minutes up his sleeve in credit. And so he would set tasks and always try to beat that time so that then have 20 minutes here, 15 minutes here. The end he'd have four, five hours so that he could go out and go, I actually had these in the bank. So I'm now using it and it was a really good mind shift to be able to do it and enjoy it, not feel like you've been distracted, you've done what you needed to do. So that was one little hack, which is along the lines of what you were saying, which, which I really appreciate it. But there's another thing that that's really interesting is that a lot of the time people set goals and then I'm not sure with you, with people that you work with, uh, when we coach them, we'll do a half a year review, right? And so someone says, well, I'm going to do this.

Yeah, that's cool. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Half year. Now, if you're behind schedule, you need to ramp things up, right? So that you're gonna meet your goal. But what happens is occasionally people will just kick the lights out in the first six months. You don't want them to coast for the second six months. So that's the scenario where they gotta ramp, they gotta revise their goal upwards. And so what happens is you're on a slipstream right here. You're riding the wave here. You've got two choices. I'm 150, 200 up. I could pull this.

Mm-hmm.

this baby in eight days earlier, 10 days earlier, or I can coast. And how you do one thing is how you do all things in life. So I'm really, I'm really, um, yeah, great to hear that you've gone, listen, I'm constantly telling myself I'm going to bring this in earlier, but how can I now use it in other areas of my life? That could really help as well.

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the one thing that I recognize now is that, you know, what I need to do in, to bring it back to like life or business is that I need to be specific on the task I have and be have a specific timeframe, because I think that's why I don't gamify that part of my life as much because, you know, it's, it's almost like a to-do list or I need to do these things, but if I actually just framed it in a way, like there's a task, but in this timeframe, all of a sudden that you can, right? That's the difference between like in workouts is that there's always a time limit, there's always amount of reps. you got to get through. So therefore it's easy to kind of manipulate because there's specific end points and start points. And so, whereas in life, there's no, like the task is really set by yourself. So unless you set those limits on yourself, those tasks could have got to be in a time limit, it's harder to kind of accomplish, to kind of gamify it. So gamification, I think is really important. I think this will help you accomplish more and chip away. And I'm going to try to apply that in my life for sure. What I didn't, I'll tell you what actually ended up happening yesterday. I think which we can definitely, uh, learn a lot from. So I actually, a couple of days ago, I went to a party, a birthday party, and I met this guy who I recognize his name. I'm like, Hey, you're in the challenge. And, uh, he's like, yeah. And he's, he's training for a half marathon here in Portugal. I'm like, okay, so you're going to be one of those guys, right? And he was a little bit behind me. Like he was probably about.

Yeah. Right.

100, 200 behind me, because you know, I was doing 150, he was doing like 100, but I can see the last few days he was creeping up with doing 120s and 120s. I'm like, okay, he's creeping up. So, you know where the story is going. You know the story is going.

Hahaha I know where this is going. I've got a trip in Portugal with the next throwing competition that we've had. So I know exactly where this story is going, Lars.

Yeah. So, so yesterday, right? So yesterday, you know, I there was this person asked me and like, Oh, man, like you doing 150 a day, like how, how many days you gonna finish this? And I'm like, well, finished within 1314 days, I think if I keep up this pace, and I thought I was doing good, like hours time at the top of my limit, right? I'm like 150 a day, this is gonna be great. I'm smashing over because we have a total like a like a score tally. I'm like, I'm smashing over everybody's no one's catching up. right? But I see this one guy, he's creeping up slowly, but he's still a few hundred behind. So then I go, okay, so then I thought I helped this guy out, like this other person who asked a question about how many things I'm like, okay, listen, I go, don't compare yourself to me. No, that's number one. Like, that's less than like, no, like, I'm not to say I'm great, you know, great, or whatever, the perfect. I'm just, I'm just, I know that I've been doing this for a long time, right, in terms of crossfit. So I have the physicality. I'm also light, by the way. It's much lighter. I'm also five foot eight five at seven actually So I'm shorter like against you and Jim like, you know if me against you like I'm gonna win, right? Mostly because not because I'm fitter than you because I don't think I am Yeah, because exactly I can drop to the floor I'm freaking 68 kilos and I just pop back up like it's easier for me, right? but if you have to lift like a deadlift or you know a shoulder like

Ah, yep. It's hauling that weight across. Yeah.

guarantee you're gonna beat me in those, right? So it's just, it's, Burpee unfortunately is one of those things that it's my to my advantage because of my size. So I say, number one, don't compare yourself to anyone, you know, even to me, right? And so like, and really, if you do want to compare yourself to one, find the next closest person on the leaderboard and just mark them so that you can go, like, how can I close the gap? Like use that as motivation. And as soon as they see you creeping up, guess what? they're gonna be motivated too. So which means now you're now motivating two different people, right? So I just said this like right in the poster, everybody has to see. And then Mark, we'll call him Mark, texts, puts on and goes, yeah, but the person in front of me isn't cooperating. Which is me. And I basically replied back and said, don't worry, I see you creeping up on my ass. And then at the end of the day, guess what he does.

Yep. Hahahaha! Yeah, yeah.

So I did 200 yesterday. He was about, he was 200. Oh no, he was 100 behind to no, sorry. He was 300 behind. He was 300 behind after that. I did my 200. I did a first thing in the morning. I posted up and guess what the bat, the bastard did. Right. By afternoon, he goes, just finished my training. Uh, you know, he's doing a half marathon. I did 301 right now, 301 burpees in one day.

Yeah. Ah, hahahaha!

And I'm like, and now he takes over the lead, right? He's at 901, I'm at 900. I'm like, Oh, okay. It's on. It's on, right? It's on. So then I basically, this is after my morning calls. I saw this after my calls. I'm like, okay, here you go. I go, you're in the lead for now. And I just go down on the ground due to video edit and send it back. I'm in 902 anyways.

Uh, okay, games on games on. Yeah. And I noticed just before we started, you had a bit of sweat on it. Were you just sneaking a couple in as well, too?

So the guy, right, the guy today, right, so this is yesterday, so the guy today bust out 300 again, right? He did, I think like 20 sets, yeah, 20, 10, I don't know, I can't remember my math, but 30, we'll call it 10 sets of 30 or something like that, right? So he just did it through the day and now he's up by an extra 300. I'm like, so I haven't posted my score today, so my goal was to get to 300 today. And the reason why I'm kinda,

Oh well. Yeah.

a lot of paddle today. And, um, so I'm at, what did I do? I think I'm at two 50 right now. So I just had to pump out like another 10. Usually I just do them all in one go. But today was one of those days like, you know, I'm doing 300. I'm just going to split this up through the day. I'm just going to be 30 at a time, you know, and just like, just chip away, chip away. My wife is like, why are you so like, why are you hot? Like, I'm not so I'm not like sweating, like 30 purpose doesn't like really cause me to sweat, but I'm heated. I'm like, my body heats up a little bit, you know, it's like,

Yep. Like it. What is... Sweater!

You did burpees again, didn't you? I'm like, yeah. After my paddle game today, I was like, you know, a winner. I was playing against a guy who, uh, who's in the group. I go loser, loser does 30. Right. So, you know, I lost, I did 30. I'm like, you know, yours is insane, but I'm trying to find any time. I can just get down to the ground. Right. Just exactly. I warmed up with 30 burpees finished with 30 burpees. I just like finding times because do these right. Um, because one of those days, so I think the lesson here, right. Uh, Oh, actually I'll let you extract the lesson.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I like it. I was going to say, listen, I can carve out some time for you here. I can talk for the next couple of minutes. If you want to just carve out some burpees while we were in there, that'd be fantastic. But what if anybody's watching actually went to the ground, which is, which is amazing. So I didn't quite do a one, but, but you know what Lawrence it shows and highlights the import, come on, do it, do it, just do it. Okay. Come on. Go. So it tells us how important competition is. He's done it. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, let's do it, let's do it, let's do it. You know what? I'm going to do one just now. Just yeah, I'm going to do one. Why don't you talk? Just to say that I actually done one during the podcast. Yeah.

doing this and that, that's a magical moment. That one is in the podcast, but, but it actually highlights the importance of competition, healthy competition, right? And how it can bring out the best in people. He's a really fascinating thing that I was always, I was mindful. So let's say you both clock you win and you get it in 16 days. For example, on the right, the trajectory you guys go and you'll knock it out in 10, but let's say you do it in 16 days and, and you win that competition. What always fascinates me is the day after the competition, right? Cause after, after the, the finish line is done, you've ever noticed when you watch someone I've done a marathon too, in the last hundred meters, you are sprinting like nothing, you're sprinting like your life depends on it. And the moment someone crosses the line, it's like they've been shot and they can't walk, they can't move. Even the Crossfitters when they're working to a time they were into a rep so as they finished, they're like, I've been shot. I have nothing. Yeah. So how.

Hmm Dead. Yep.

Here's the question is like, okay, I get it. We're in competition mode and the finish line is the finish line and we're focused on that. What happens after? You know, is that the day that you go, man, I can't do 10 today, I'm cooked.

That's very interesting. Very interesting. Yeah, well, I was actually a little bit worried about that, to be honest with you. After day three, you know, I've already done at that time about 400 burpees. And because I'm trying to, like at the beginning of like this whole challenge, I was actually going as fast as I can. So I was just dropping on the floor. And the problem with that is my wrist started hurting. Like, and I was like, oh, this is not good. This is not good. This is not good for paddle. This is not good for crossfit. Like you can't do the other things. I go, I might need to slow this down. And that's where my mental had to shift a little bit. And I've been more careful with my technique with the burpees.

I also noticed you were out on grass one day as well too. Was that obviously a beautiful sunny day, but that makes a lot of sense, right? You can push out quite a few of them on a softer surface.

Yeah, I was on grass. Yeah. To be honest, San was really almost better because I can just drop my whole body down and, you know, but anyways, it's, it was one of those weird things, weird moments where, um, I had to like, not weird moments, but I just had to be careful. Like, yeah, so you're absolutely right. And, but it's a mental game, right? It's a mental game. It's like, do I want to finish fast first? Um, and I know he's going to punch out as much as I will. So this is the challenge, right. And

Yeah, of course.

I think it's really important for me to kind of be injury proof, like injury pro, I'm not saying to not have any injuries through this whole process. And that's the main thing. But yeah, you're to answer your question. What, what happens after? Like I'm going to get to 2000 pretty fast. I think, you know, most likely in record time, to be honest, you in my head right now, I'll be tonight by the end of today. Um, I'm going to punch out another 50 and I'll be at 300. So we'll be tied. We'll be tied at about 301. That's true. Yeah, that's right. That's true.

At 301 because if you got to count the one you just did, right? Let's not forget that one

So, uh, and he'll love that because I'll be two up against him. I'll be at, I'll be at about 1200 and say two or three. Right. So that means I'll have about 800 left. And I'm thinking either I'm going to finish this out and just punch out 400, or I'm going to do like 300 and just finish out on like Saturday or Sunday. Like I just like, I want to bust this out like before in less than 10 days. That's, that's my goal now. And I can just get it over with. And so now what happens then it goes, okay, well, what happens after

Yep.

2000 that's the answer to the question it goes I think what I would do is I won't necessarily need to do as much as I have been doing But I still gonna continue I think just because I'm in the group for the rest of the month I there's no reason why I wouldn't continue and I don't know to be honest. I don't know what the answer to that is But I think what I'm gonna aim for is how fast I can do to a hundred I think that would be the next challenge. I'll set that goal for him between me and me It's like how fast can you get to a hundred and then like let's time that?

And that's actually, yeah. Yeah, because what the reason I ask Lawrence is because that spark in you is palpable and it's infectious. Right. So you might win the competition, but it's a case of, all right, I might've done that. How do I change this a little bit to still keep that effect on me so that I can keep trying and I could stay moving forward and keep benefiting rather than just finishing it and then great. I've done it. I've done my.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

task, all bets are off now, and then you lose up any momentum and benefits that you gained.

Yeah. So I think like the change is rather than volume. Like the first goal is to get through the volume. And then once the volume is done, I don't need the volume because then that's just going to create injuries. So I don't need to do that. So now the shift of the goal is speed and that will be just my personal goal. I don't need to beat anybody for that. Like, you know, unless someone puts up the challenge, but you know, I, I already said this out loud in this podcast, which is recorded at, you know, at, I said, you know, five minutes for a hundred, I worked that out. It's 20 burpees in a minute.

Yep.

That's a lot. I can do 20 minutes. I can do 20 burpees in a minute, but sustain that for five minutes straight? I don't know. That's a bit of a challenge. So I think I can definitely get under six. Whether I get down to five, who knows? We'll see you at the end of the month.

Hmm, that's... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, and the guy who you're in competition most directly with, is there an age differential as well?

Uh, I don't know. I think he's about the same age, I would say. Yeah, yeah, very similar. Like, you know, give or take three, three to five years. Well, like he might be slightly younger than me, I think. But yeah, he's fit, he is fit. I think it'll be more of a, it's more like I know I'm the underdog in a way. He doesn't know that, but I think I'm the underdog. And mostly because I know what it takes to run half Ironmans, right? Well, I don't know what it takes, but I've seen people who've done half Ironmans and.

Okay, okay. Okay, so it's a fair competition, isn't it?

and the training, sorry, even full Ironmans and what the training they have to endure. Like there's something in their head that causes them to like thrive on a challenge. And this is why I'm not almost, don't wanna feed into it. Cause I know if I feed into it, he would destroy me. You know, and I'm not, I'm not like downplaying myself. I just know that I don't necessarily have that wire into just like, just go beat someone for the sake of beating.

It. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

So I'm kind of like just going this gently and then, because if I put in that challenge, I'm like, oh, this is what I've done this way. If I said I did 400 today, I guarantee you, he would do 400 or even 500 the next day, just to beat me, right? It's that mentality. And there's the dog in certain people. And I think it's about reading the person. And I'm playing this as a game, because this is the only way I'm gonna be able to win, because I can't go head to head with him, right? Because he will always dominate. He just got that personality. And I think that's really smart when it comes to business. Like you gotta know who your competition is, right?

Okay. Yeah. Right. Yep. Yeah. That's what I was, yeah, exactly. That's what I was about to say was because I'm that guy. All right. If you, I'd be the guy who, you know, I would just break limbs to just, you know, but that's part of my psychology. So, but what I really loved where you went with that was, okay, so how can I be smart and strategic about it? Cause if you just muscle through and brute force life, then there's going to be a limitation. Great, awesome. You won this victory, but you haven't won the war.

Yeah. All right.

because, and that's the lesson that I've had to learn over time is sustainability where the reason I asked you about the age differential is because I'm fighting young guys. And as much as I love the ability to say, yeah, I can keep it up with you. I can't keep it up for with them for as long as I can, as I want to. Their recovery is so much faster, you know, and I can, you know, last week I recorded, I was training twice a day. That was awesome. That's great. I got to the weekend and I slept.

Yes.

Like so, so my recovery was like, gosh, so I'm tempering it, but, but that psychology is there. And, you know, I had, I not had the discernment to be able to go, Hey, you're going to be smart about this. I would have kept repeating a pattern. So perhaps you can talk about how you can now apply that in business essence by when you're coming up a bigger opponent, how do you out strategize them?

Hmm. Yep. Yeah, I think it's just being smart and you got to know yourself. Like I'm not saying that I don't have it with me, but I, I not, I not like you, Jim, like I, in that sense, I know I'm not like you. I don't have that, that I could say, I think there's a, an off switch in my brain just goes like, just don't like, you don't need to kill yourself. Like that just, that's it. Now I'm not saying that's a weakness or strength either. Like it's, it's just, it is me. Right. And you know, there is massive advantage. Yeah, exactly. And I think that.

It's self-awareness, self-awareness.

You know, you have that darkness. If I went into this challenge with you, say, and you're that guy, I guarantee, like, I know that hunger in you and you will destroy me if I went head to head on you. But you also know the dark side of that too. Like as long as you're aware, right? And yeah, yeah. And I definitely don't put myself in that pain zone as much as some people can. For whatever reason, there's like a little mechanism and maybe I can train it out of me, I don't know. But I, so to go back to competition, I think for me,

100%. That's why I declare it. That's why I declare it straight away.

it's about knowing yourself first. That's number one. We have to know yourself and know what is the most likelihood of success here. And so for me, when I deal with this in business is to recognize like my comp, I need to know my competitors. That's the second thing you need to know yourself. And then you need to know your competitors. It's like in the sense of, of what are they gonna do and how they're gonna win the game. And you got to recognize that. The third thing I would do is actually making sure that how are, how they approach the game is not necessarily within your own values. Now you're basically taking your awareness, you're taking the awareness of their strength, and then you gotta find commonalities and also see what's also different. So if you're comparing you and me, like I know you have that dog in you, and that fight in you that you can go into that pain cave, a lot longer than I could, then I need to know that I can't play at your game. If I play at your game, I will lose 99 out of 100. I'm gonna get lucky once in a while. So then I have to get you to play my game. So if I was playing, if I was saying, you know, grappling with you or fighting with you in Jiu-Jitsu, not that I would ever try, but, cause I know nothing, but if just say I had the same similar skillset, like I would, I wouldn't necessarily, I don't know the terminology, but I wouldn't go into a fight with you to see who can outlast each other in terms of like endurance, right? Cause I don't, I would never win. So what I would have to do is I have to go one, I have to either attack you early and finish you early, right? Let's just based on our size, I probably have to attack you with my speed, not strength. Or I have to make you miss and be tired, so that I can then take a hold you because you're drained. Like that's the game that I would probably have to play. And, and this is just like in business is really just like, it's really defining.

Yep.

your lane of what you're really good at. I already talked about the size differential between you and I say in a CrossFit competition, I don't do very well, mostly because my size isn't really built for most CrossFit type of competitions where I would win is when it comes to body weight. If it's a pull up or burpee or air squats, running like those things I will I will have the engine for and because I'm light, I will beat you on that. But if you add any solid weight,

Yep.

Like if you put a barbell in front of me in middle of that workout, that's where my, my kryptonite will be. Cause I'm not as strong as say someone who would take me longer to do that. So that's when the catch up. So that's why I love the sport of CrossFit because it kind of balances out. And some days you're going to be fantastic. And some days you're coming last because it's such a variety of sports.

Yep. Hmm. And you know, that's actually when, when you were talking about jujitsu, that actually is the strategy against someone who's a bigger opponent. That's exactly the same. So when I go up against someone who's lighter or even someone who's quicker and faster and younger and stronger, there's two things that you're basically doing is if they're coming up against me, they're doing exactly, they're going to use speed because the bigger you are. you'll gas out much faster. So you've got a lot more aerobic capacity, right? So, but you've done a strategic, but basically a little SWOT analysis and gone, here's the strengths, weaknesses, this is what I'm gonna, that's a plan, right? Which is really, really smart. But what I quite often do is I'll stop someone playing their game. So that's the strategy as well. So it's a case of, okay, if I'm coming up against your strengths, how do I mitigate those? How do I neutralize those?

Yes. Hmm.

So it's exactly the same objective in there. So that's the path and strategy where you actually go, okay, what are my strengths? What are my unique abilities? What are my, where do I have an advantage? Where are my, you know, basically gonna be challenged? How do I compensate or mitigate for those? And don't play somebody else's game. Because if I play the game that they dictate the terms for, I'm at the effect. I'm not actually, and that's what I loved about You know, when I, when I always listen to the interviews, both before and after sporting events, I always I'm fascinated by the psychology and how they frame it, you know, when a team is coming up against a formidable opponent, they go, we, we are cherishing and the opportunity to challenge yourselves against a strong opponent. And if they've come up and they've found it easier or formidable, like it just, it rewires the narrative. And it's important to be able to.

Yes.

change those, shift those, adapt those to the circumstances. And I know we started with the Burpee challenge, but there's so many variables and so many tangents of information and wisdom and gold nuggets that can come from the experience that you're going through.

Oh, that guy, it's unbelievable. It's only like seven days in and I'm already learning a ton about myself and you know, things that I already knew, but it's also things that are pushing me. I like who would have thought like today, like I will finish 300 today, but who would have thought, I mean, at the beginning I was just only thinking 67, you know, it's like, I'm literally doing, you know, what five times more than I would initially started with, like, which is kind of insane. I would never have thought that. And I think this is like what the challenge does to you. Like you don't realize what the potential you are. I remember someone always said to me, like, you never know what you're

Yeah.

your true potential is until you actually, you know, push yourself into those limits. And this is where sports, I feel, is great for that, because it pushes you to a position where you have to show up and you start to realize that, you know, you start to realize that there's more to you than you think. And I that's what I love about showing up to the gym. When someone just does a CrossFit workout, and they just go, here's the wall we're doing today. And every single time, I just think, I can't do that. There's no way I'm going to finish like that's impossible.

Yeah.

And yet every time, not every time, but 80% of the time, I go, Oh, I did way better than I thought. Right. And, but I've been doing this for like, eight, nine years. And I still think that way. Like, literally every time I just look at there's no way I'm doing that. There's rarely ever a moment, like maybe 20, 30%. I go, Okay, that's easy. I can do that. But there are almost moments where you know, I'm going to be able to do that. There's no way I can do that within that time limit. And then you prove to yourself and like, Oh, I can't. It's like this realization in the middle of a workout, you go, Oh, I'm actually

Hmm. Yeah.

on pace. Right. And this is where this light bulb moment and then that you gain this confidence in yourself to go okay, let's push a little harder, let's push a little harder. And you kind of get there, you know, and I think but the challenge is taking that feeling, right. So you put you got to put yourself in those situations. So you actually it's like visceral, right? It's kinesthetic, you feel it. It's not like just theoretical anymore. It's like it's, it's there. It's visceral and kinesthetic. You take that and then you apply it to life.

Hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And that's exactly what you've just done because strategically you went analytically 67 a day. That's what I'm going to do. But the moment you're in, it's like, dude, I'm alive. I'm like, and I would, I would hazard a guess that, okay, you, you're in that competitive zone, the juices are flowing. There's probably the light bulbs switched on in your head. And there's probably ideas that are going left, right and center. Uh, you've suddenly gone.

it right. Yep.

I didn't even think of this. And it's like one of those limitless type experiences where it just expands your capacity.

Yeah. Yeah, I'll tell you like one experience would be like, if I can do that, if I can like do this in this, why can't I do this in like my business or my life or like, and that's been happening the last couple of days. Like my brain is like, it's literally just going like, man, you're just playing small. Like, you know, I've literally just my conversation I have myself, it's like, no, you just haven't really tried. Like, honestly, you just like, oh, this can't do that. No, you just really haven't really given a shot. Your brain had just told you, you can't. So therefore you just accepted it. And this is sort of where I'm at.

Thanks. Yeah.

So yeah, I'm, I'm the middle of that and you can see that change in me. Um, but it's good. I enjoy it, but yeah, the challenge here, the biggest challenge of the challenge is goes, what happens after the challenge? Like, you know, where do I take this? And yeah, and I'm sure because you've just said it and because I just said it out loud and it's recorded, um, you will hold me accountable. So, um, such a trick. That's such a trick, Jim.

Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Well, that's why that's, I've teased it out of you too, Lawrence. But, but I do that for myself. To be honest, I know I do, I do, I do that because I do, I, I've got to, I've got to basically do that for myself. So if I make a declaration, I will say, okay, how do I keep myself accountable? I'm going to proclaim it to everybody. There's no way that I'm going to walk up the street and be the guy who said he was going to do something and he didn't. So I have to publicly declare it and live up to that and exceed it. So. That's just a hack that I use. We all, we use success strategies for that. That's the dark side of me that I can recruit to, to get myself to do it. And it works really well. There's, there's something I also wanted to bring into about the commitment to Lawrence, because I had an experience where a few years ago, I might've mentioned it one of our earlier podcasts, but I, I was running a marathon and I ripped both my calves.

During?

And for the last 10, during, during the race, and I tore both my calves and for the last 10 Ks, I, it was agony, but I made sure I ran through 10 Ks of both ripped calves, right? It was just excruciating. And that's the dogged, yeah, but that, so I, yeah, no, like I, I did, 10 Ks I did it, right?

See, that's the dog in you, man. Like, I would have said, I would have gone through maybe a little bit, and I'm like, no, I'm done. This is just, it's not worth it.

Yeah. So yeah, okay. That's, that's the part of me that I had to basically rewire as well to the, to learn on, but here's the thing the next year I was so focused on running it really well that I was more locked on, on the goal than why I was doing what I was doing. So the next year I was running and I was getting my mileage up and I'm hating it. I'm hating it. Look, I've always loved running.

Hmm. Hmm. Yeah.

up until about 10 Ks, but beyond that, I just didn't want to do that. But here I am getting 25, 30s up and I'm like six, eight months ahead of schedule. But the dark dogged part of me just pushed really hard. And I'm coming up home after 30 K runs and you know, Bettina is going, what are you doing? And I go, I'm running. She goes, you don't look really happy. I'm hating it. She goes, well, why are you doing it? It's just cause I said I was going to, right? So.

Yeah.

quite often I find, and I'd love your take on this. So for you to start this commitment, obviously there's the payoff to you is that it's gonna bring something out anew, but there's gotta be a cause, there's gotta be a reason that mobilizes us to take action. And for you it's, okay, I'm basically honoring servicemen and there's a cause. And quite often I think people will be able to commit to something that they don't even think is possible if there's a big enough why, right? So there was a big enough why to start that. But then also, reminding yourself of why you're doing what you're doing. And that it's actually, even though it's difficult, there's a bigger payoff. There's a bigger reason that drives it, fuels you, because if you're doing what I was doing, you're hating every second of it. There's something I missed there. And it got to the point where I reevaluated and I just went, listen, I love running. I don't want to run math. I can let go of that. I can surrender that because now I'm doing it for doing its sake as opposed to anything bigger.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting you said that. So this, I mean, this happened to just be, you know, for a charity that for the UK, you know, armed forces and stuff. Not that I have a massive attachment to that, but here's an interesting insight that I haven't thought about that I do do, and now that you brought it up. There are moments during this challenge, and also especially when we have hero wads. So hero wads in CrossFit is like during the day, certain, certain days, like especially like say on Memorial Day or on Anzac Day in Australia, or Remembrance Day, there's usually a hero wad at your gym. And the hero wads is really like a workout of the day that honors a particular soldier that has died. And, you know, they create this like workout that's pretty tough.

Yeah.

And I remember one time in Australia, and this is where it triggers my memory is that when I'm in Australia, one time was on Anzac day and the weight was pretty heavy for me and it was on a Saturday. It was Anzac day. And I remember the coach said this, he goes, listen, I know that you're going to be in pain, but also just realize that who you're doing it for. Right. And I was like, okay. And I still remember that day because I remember I was lifting and pressing more weight than I ever would have normally put on. Because I just go, I don't care how fast I was going at that time, I was going slow, but I was like, no, I'm gonna do this based on because they suffered. He's no longer here and I'm here and I can do this. I might not, you know, I'm not trying to win any awards here, I'm just getting through it. And so to tell you the truth around these burpees is like, when they're, when during the moments where it's like getting tough, like I put myself in that mindset of the armed forces. I remember those

Yeah.

And the reason why I can, I guess I can relate a little bit because I actually spent a bit of time with the armed forces. Not personally, but I, well personally I have actually, I spoke in Japan. I had a friend of mine who got me to speak in Japan to the U.S. Army in Japan, in the military base, several years ago. And I had the opportunity to meet some of them and worked out with them and understand. And I had some friends who were like Navy SEAL snipers. And so like I got some exposure to it. So there's...

There's the hook. There's the hook, right?

Yeah, exactly. And there's like this mental part of me that goes, yeah, like I have never been in military. I've never been, I've never served, but I've never, you know, never even tried. But I know what they had to go through to get there, the discipline, you know, the grueling thing that had to go through and they sacrificed their lives. You know, and so I'm just doing burpees. So suck it up, right? Get down on the floor, get back up, get down on the floor, like.

Yeah.

And that's sort of that what keeps me going. Like when I'm in the hurt, uh, and the pain cave when I'm doing them. So I didn't, I don't know if that motor, but going back to it, it's the Y it's the Y like I created a Y out of something. Like it's not necessarily, like it just basically, I think it's important for all of us to create a Y you have to create something that's meaningful to you. It doesn't really matter if it means anything to anybody else, but you.

No, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know, you quite often will see that people might throughout their history, some kind of challenge, some kind of trauma inspires them to take up a cause and they've got the momentum. There's the commitment that starts. Yeah. When you were talking about Anzac day, I remember quite a few years ago, we had a Jiu-Jitsu training session on Anzac day. And I've got a lot of friends who are actually special forces, soldiers who've served and. It was only when you were saying that, that I realized, yeah, there's a connection there for me as well too. So we had a situation where one of, we all came in and trained, we all lined up. And one of our guys who was training with us had the bugle and was playing the last post and we had a minute. So it was like, I get, you know, chills just thinking about that. But that session was like off the charts as well too, where we were exhausted, tired, whatever. And we did exactly the same thing. We put ourselves in a scenario and said, you know what? I get to go home after this, or this is only difficult. And quite a few of the guys that I used to roll again, were soldiers who they weren't just fighting for the honor of that round, they were fighting for their life and I was rolling with them. There was always something different and I connected that to it. So I think a really important thing is that we could connect and commit to anything if, if we can find some kind of. meaning behind it, some kind of significance to it. And we'll find this other part of ourselves that we just didn't even know was possible. Cause we've just tapped into something, whether it's purposeful, whether it's just our own momentum, but something magical happens. Like you said, when you're in it and you're right in it right now, where eight days ago you were like 67, yeah, it's doing pretty good. Now you're smashing out 300 and pluses. As you said, because you didn't know what your top gear was possible. until you were in that scenario. So I, yeah, I think it's been a great, great experience for you. I've certainly taken a lot out of just hearing the, the shifts and the change and, and what's happening as you know, the, who you become and who you'll be coming as a result. And I'm really glad that we've recorded it. So you can go great. Here's what I'm doing. Here's how I'm going to use it next, because that's ultimately what we want. Right. Is to go, we don't want it to be an on-off switch. We go great. Awesome. How do you keep leveling up consistently?

Yep. Yeah, I think that, and you know, it's consistency. And I think that, you know, you can use your why to propel you in the moment. And I think you can also use your why to create the sustainability and consistency. I think it matters. Like, and now we talked about this on to our clients all the time. I think you need to somehow be reminded of your purpose. You have to be reminded of your why, because it's so easy to just live your day-to-day life. And so it's, these moments do come to you once in a while, but you know, if you're intentional about having a why being more aware to your consciousness on a daily basis, then you're most likely gonna be able to do the things you continue to do or chase after the things you wanna have and be more consistent with it. So we'll see, we'll see. To be determined, the TBD, we'll see next week whether I, I think by next week I should have completed it by now on this pace, so we'll see in the next recording whether I actually did complete it by the next recording. We'll see.

Yeah. Yeah, smash that. I'm sure you will. I'm sure you will have Lawrence. And you know, here's the other thing that I've also noticed as well too, is that age doesn't temper that. Right. It doesn't temper it. You just, you take on, you know, less challenging challenges that are more appropriate to your age and where you're at. But fundamentally you, you know, maybe in your seventies or eighties, you'll be going, okay, my Rose garden is going to be like, I'm just going to plant them. Like I've heard this from elite athletes who

Mm. No. Yep.

have said they can't now do what they do. So now they take pride in the things that they can and they show up with professionalism and excellence in the areas that they've met the task in there. So I have no doubt that, you know, for as long as you and I are gonna be setting challenges for ourselves, that psychology will still stink around and it will basically will.

we better be still doing able to do burpees when we're 70 or 80 years old. Like, I'm gonna say maybe a thousand, but like, I mean, if we can still do a few burpees, I think we've done well. And that's the whole, isn't that the goal in why we train? Is that we can actually do those things when we're older. So, all right guys, I hope that's, you got a lot out of that. I know it was a story and over the last seven days of my journey, but at the same time, I hope you took away a lot of lessons from that. Cause I think you can definitely apply it. If you just took that framework and some of the things we talked about.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's the guy. That's the guy.

fly to your day to day life or the journey to get to your goals. Uh, the imperfection and the perfection of that. I think you can really get to, uh, your achievements and your visions a lot faster. So from Jim and I, I thank you once again, to be part of this. If you feel like this podcast will help someone, please share it, uh, with someone, cause I think we'll benefit others. We'll see you on the next episode and we'll find out whether or not I finished it in 14 days or less. Talk to you later. So yeah.