Age Appropriate Advice

Thank you.

Well, welcome to Wabi Sabi and this episode is going to be a great one. But first of all, I wanted to say to everybody, if you are enjoying these podcasts, I would love for you to subscribe, you know, on your Apple podcast or your Spotify podcast. And you know, what will help us a lot. We haven't asked for anything, but we'll have to be one favor we'd love to ask is that you share this podcast with a friend of yours, who you feel like is going to be benefit that can benefit from these episodes. And I really would.

Thanks for watching!

Jim and I would really appreciate that. So let's kind of get started on today's episode. I thought we, well, that's why, don't worry, I'm going there, I'm going there. I want to give an update, I'm going update.

Before we do, Lawrence, before we do, you're going there? Okay, because anybody's been listening. Oh, yeah, great. I just want to make sure we got to find out. We got to find out.

Yeah, I'm going to start with the update first. So yeah, this is going to be a different episode to begin with. Uh, before we go right into the topic today, we're going to find out some update because as I promised, I was, uh, I wanted to make sure I give you an update on the burpee challenge that I'm going through right now. So, you know, after our episode, which is really interesting, I can't remember exactly how far, I think it was about halfway. I think it was about a thousand out of the 2000, I think from memory or maybe 900 or something. And so what was interesting was, you know, Jim just, or just to refresh people's memory. Jim said, you know, if it was him, he would be one of those guys who would just take on the challenge, because it was another competitor. You don't have to listen to that episode. And when they would go through and he was just going to like do whatever it takes to finish, right? Do you remember that? So, and somehow like that unconsciously must've slipped through my brain and just went, okay, Lawrence, it's time to pull a gym. It's time for you to execute the gym 2.0 in yourself and execute and just start pumping out. So.

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Over the next few days, I did like, I think, you know, 300, I think I did 250. That's just some odd numbers. Like, you know, I was pumping out, but I think one day I did like 325 or something. And then, but here's the thing, you know, the thing you said that would, is that your weakness is that when you go hard, you don't listen to your body. Yeah. Well, that's exactly what happened to me. Yep. So after that weekend, my back started.

Yeah. Oh no. Oh no. Oh, Lawrence.

taking, it started tweaking and I was like, no, it can't be from the burpees. It's gotta be the thing I lifted. I had, you know, I lifted something heavy. It's gotta be that. But honestly, man, I had to take a couple of days break. I'm like, I couldn't do it. And I didn't announce my, you know, I said, I wasn't announcing my numbers to the other guy, the guy that he must have like, go, he's like stressing out, so he must have done 300 just to be safe, 300 just to be safe, 300 of states. And when he did the 300 and when my back gave out, I'm like, you know what? You can have the title, man.

Yeah. Oh. Eh, eh. Uhhh...

I don't want it because I just, my back was just too sore. So to kind of give you an update. So the other day I gave a couple of days rest. I said, I'm going to complete this. And I had, I was at 1700. So I had 300 more to go in this 2000 burpees in a month challenge. And we're on day, it was say day 12 or day 11 in. And, uh, I was about 300 away and I looked at the back exercise. I started the CrossFit exercise. I couldn't do it. It was all back squats and stuff. I'm like, I'm not doing that. I can't, I'm not putting a weight on my body, but so I decided to go, let's finish 300 X burpees instead. Right. Let's do like 10 sets of 30 with like 15 sit-ups in between. And I got to about six rounds and, uh, my back was giving out. Like he was just getting really tired. So I got to about 180. I said, you know, I can do 20 more. So I got to 200. So now I'm stuck at 1900 and I haven't done any for the last two days. So that's where I'm at. And I couldn't, I went to play paddle yesterday, literally just my back gave out after one set. And today I was smart. The Lawrence came back and said, you shouldn't play today. You should give your spot away. And so, cause I got to get on a flight on Saturday. So I decided like.

Okay. Yeah. Go figure.

You know what? Let's pose. I'm not winning and there's no prize here. There's no prize. Just an, uh, I'm as a moral victory. So I, uh, yeah, so that's the update. I'm still at 1900.

Yep. Well, thanks for dec, thanks for declaring that. And, you know, I hand on heart, geez, I'm really sorry that I, I did push it out. If it's any consolation, I, that has an impact on me as well too. Like I got to share too. I. So the benefit of that, I'm going to keep going as hard as I can. Mindset helps me do incredible things. Unfortunately, what it does is brings obstacles along my way as well too. So today I actually went.

No, it's not your fault. I was just joking with you.

for the last few months, actually for a long period of time, I've had, I've broken every toe in my, every bone in my left foot, my right foot, ribs, and it's all martial arts that comes through. Yeah, man, so, but I've been walking. Yeah, yeah, no, I've broken them several times, right? And I've been walking awkwardly, you know, like for, so years ago when I was 24, 25, when I was in my kickboxing, I kicked a guy in the back of the head.

Jeez. And here I'm complaining the first bone I broke was my thumb. Ha ha ha.

And it broke my toe, right? And yeah, right. So, but for the rest of my time, since then I've been compensating for that. And it's affected and I've had issues with my hip. So over the last few months, Jiu-Jitsu has gotten harder with my hips. I went, no, it's limited me too much. I've got to go and see a GP to get an MRI because it feels like, you know, I just need to be thorough. And it's using both our professional.

Oh my god. Hmm.

expertise and intre and understanding of the body went now I'm going to go and do this. So I've gone and done that and the guy's my age, you know, just mid fifties and he's talking to me goes, okay, so what do you think's contributed? I go look, it's, it's a lifetime of training and blah, blah. Um, but I was still trying to jiu jitsu, um, you know, four, five times a week. And he just looks at me, he goes, look guys, our age should be doing things like pilates, taking it easy. And I'm going to tell you, man. I got the referral for the MRI and the lady at reception goes, so would you like me to schedule a new appointment? I said, no, I'm going to a GP who just does not talk me down. Who understands? So honestly, I cracked it from that perspective. So was it stubborn ego? Maybe, but I didn't like being boxed into a box of limits and told that.

Yeah.

This is what you're capable of. And so that was a physical component. There was a physical drive for you that triggered it off. Okay, we've got some feedback that says, okay, you may need to do things a little bit differently now, but I'll be damned if I'm actually gonna give up just something like that, just because of someone's perception. It wasn't even a professional opinion. It was just a passing comment to go, you know, dude, at your age, you should be doing something.

Mmm. Yes.

You know, like, look at me, like I, you know, I do Pilates now. I'm like, well, good for you, buddy. That's great. But you're not me. So.

Yeah. I think, I think there's also a part of us that also knows that, you know, we don't, we don't want to be boxed in. We don't want to be labeled. And to be honest, we were not normal, right? We're like, we're not the average. So yeah. So the average 50 year old, yeah, they may be doing Pilates and I mean, that's, you know, what they recommend, but at the same time, exactly. There's nothing wrong with the yoga and Pilates and all this stuff. But I think it's like, you know, being told that you shouldn't be doing that is almost makes

No. Not that there's anything wrong with Pilates. Let's just define it. Yeah.

I'm like, I'm with you, man. I would have moved on to the next person too. I'm like, I would go, no, I need someone who can actually understand me. It's funny because I was literally doing a webinar with a bunch of students, oh, not students, actually new graduates, you know, sort of within the first three years of practice. And I relayed them to a story around a patient that I used to see and who has been told by every chiropractor and every doctor that she should not be exercising as much as she did. And that's, but the thing you can tell

I'm going next, next.

that she was so passionate about exercise. She's like, that was her life. And then here's the key difference. It's not about exercising is that you can see in that person that exercise defined who she was. Rightly or wrongly, it's irrelevant, it's not my life, but for her, it was her life. Like she, that was her identity. And for someone to say you can't do something, it's not about you couldn't, it's not about her not being able to do exercise. It was squashing her identity to...

Yeah.

forcing her to become someone she wasn't. And that was the wrong thing to do. And I remember taking on that patient and said, no, you definitely can do this, but you might have to work around it by doing other things. We can work together to figure out what you can or couldn't do, but I'm not gonna say you're not gonna be able to do this because you can see the identity to it. I think for us, it's like, we have this identity going, like, I wanna prove to the, you know, you and I have the same fundamental philosophical belief is that we wanna prove that at our age, those people who don't do these things,

100%. Yeah, yeah. Yep.

isn't normal. And people who what we do is normal. Like this is what normal people should be doing so that we can be you know, living longer and healthier. Right? Yeah, do we have that? And but the thing is, do we have to be a little bit smarter on certain things? Yeah, absolutely. Like, I told you, I think I told you with a water skiing incident a couple weeks, you know, I was doing exactly what I did like 25 years ago. But the difference to the body told me was like, yeah, your body doesn't can't sustain the same amount of impact. Right?

Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Um, as I did 25 years ago, okay, like lesson learned, listen to that, but didn't mean I can't water ski. I can't do those things. It just means I had to do it slightly differently, not completely, uh, ignore, uh, you know, the sport altogether. Now, how are, are there certain circumstances where it's detrimental? Yeah, I think so. And, but I don't think your incident, my incident of what I'm doing right now is telling us that it's like, you know, it's, it's only when you're really constantly hurting yourself and you're

Yeah.

and your body is like telling you and you're ignoring and ignoring it. Yeah, at some point, the body's going to hit you with a Mac truck and say, Jim, stop doing that. Like you literally are not listening.

Yep. Yeah. Exactly. And I guess having our background helps us to go, okay, dude, all right. Look, just because you are professional doesn't mean you're not motivated. You know, you know, and sometimes you, you weigh it up and you go, yeah, I know this isn't great for me. But however, the benefit, it's the benefit that I get out of it outweighs any other downside of it. So it's not about being reckless or not listening or being. Because I exactly right, you know, being married to a health professional, you know, no one has to worry that I won't get a tap on the shoulder and go, Hey, dude, you've got to be careful. You've got to be wake up to yourself. So that's not a problem. It was more, I guess, the object, the, the concept that someone looks at you, looks at a number on a, on a sheet and says, you know, hang on here, you don't drink, you don't smoke, you don't do all these things yet by, by chronologically, you shouldn't be doing these things. And so I don't think you should. And, and I, like I said, that just, you know, I bucked up against that. And I went, no, listen, you don't understand what's going on. And consequently, we need to, you're not, you're not in my team. And it's probably, yeah.

Yeah. Well, and that's the thing is, it's wisdom, right? Like, it's wisdom of experience. And the thing is, like, he's looking at from a statistical data that says, you know, at someone who was born in 1960, whatever shouldn't be doing x, based on a empirical data of like, normal, right, quote unquote, normal, you know, population. And but you know, we're talking like a population, we're on we're on the edge, like we're on the edge, no matter where you think slice it, you're on the edge. So you got to look at the person and go like, Okay, well, exactly what you said, like, but you just, who gives you not the

Yeah.

Not the, not the necessarily all the physicality. Forget about the physicality, the enjoyment. It's like, it, it defines you. It is who you are, the emotion, the connections that you make, like, how about all that benefit for, you know, your body's endorphins, right? That's good, making you live longer. Yeah, forget, even add it onto the health benefits and all those things, right? And I think that's such an important element to kind of continue. This is where I think what we're talking about today, which is like, when, as we get older, right? As we get older, we have wisdom.

Yeah. Yep.

We learn from those experiences. And we have to kind of think back and go, we gotta take those experiences and go, would we apply those same wisdom if we were back in our 20s or 30s or 40s? We talked about this last time, I think. It's like, at every age group, you're gonna have a different type of wisdom and you gotta be careful about imparting wisdom to the right age group, to the right people at the right time. Because what I would say, If like whatever I'm learning now, it's not what I would say to my 20 year old self because my 20 year old self shouldn't listen to what I'm thinking now, because I'm in a different body. I'm in a different age in my life, right? The 20 year old should be listening to what a 20 year old should be doing at that time and so on and so forth. So that's how I got to feel about, you know, the wisdom that we need to take and go like, how will we apply that wisdom? It's not just like sharing these wisdom on a podcast and say, hey, this is what we learned. But I would say, yeah, you got to look at your life and go, does it apply to you at this moment in time?

Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And in a previous episode, we've talked about, you know, a message to a younger self. So it's, there's a similarity in that, but I think the difference would be that, okay, Lawrence, if you and I were starting exercising now, or if we were starting a new business now, or if we were, how would we go about that? You know, like, how would we say, okay, based on where you are right now, based on everything that you know, your current scenario, how would you do things differently than when you were in your 20s? How would that be a different? And I think I'll certainly kick off and say, I worked exceptionally hard and there's great outcomes and results that afforded us by a question. But I think that I bought too much into the grind. I bought too much into the idea that it's like, there's some people in the... the space that says, you know, you've got to work so hard that your eyeballs bleed. And I feel like mine did, you know, and while I don't, I take the, I have no, I don't regret that. I look at sometimes from the perspective of if I was starting out again, I couldn't do that. So I couldn't rely on that. So I would have to come up with a strategy that would actually be more sustainable, more wise and more in tune with where I am right now, rather than a boatload of energy that I had when I was in my 20s.

Hmm Let me ask you this though. Are you saying that you wouldn't be like you would do it differently at this age now? Like in this life? Yeah, okay. Right.

Yeah. So, so if I let's say it could be, because I mean, in our profession, right, there were people who in their fifties decided they were going to have a career change after, after not being helped by anybody. They decided, you know, back, you go back in this history of chiropractic, for example, and you hear stories of people who were helped when nobody else could help them. And in their thirties, forties and fifties, a lot of times they had families ready to go. And they literally, and back in the day, in Australia, for example, you couldn't study there. So you had to pack up the family and move to the US and Canada and places like that where education was up and running for chiropractic. So, but when these people came back, they didn't have the 20 year old energy. They had the 50 year old and they were starting again. So what did they do? I think they, they were really inspired by what was important to them. And I think they put the energy into it. So I think that would be what I would do is I'd be a lot more discerning in terms of where I, you know, confused sometimes activity and progress. And now I think age and wisdom and experience has taught me that there's a difference with those. And I'd be looking for more effective results rather than just pushing for the pushing sake.

I would agree if I was applying it to where I'm at the moment. And most of the time I would say, right now I don't have that same tenacity and drive as I used to have when I was in my 20s and my early 30s. I don't know where it's gone. I don't know. Like, I just don't have that same, like, will, I guess. Now, doesn't mean it's not there. It just means that I'm not sure that I would want to go through that. And I think it's maybe because

Okay. Yep.

I have a different purpose or maybe you learn to know what the difference is between what you want and what you think you want. It kind of, or maybe it's like, because I'm clearer of exactly sort of where, where I want to be and what I don't want anymore. And maybe also the desires have changed and what I felt was success back then to what I feel like success now in my sort of late forties, but if I had to give advice back to like my younger self, if I'm 20, so I actually had a conversation right now to my 20 year old self. Or if I had a.

Hmm. Yeah.

Um, you know, even to like anybody who's in their twenties, or even if I give them advice to my, my kids at 20, I feel to be honest with you, I feel that they need to go through that phase of tenacity. I think they need to grind hard and not knowing and also learn to pursue things that really isn't what is supposed to be like, sorry, I guess pursue things that you, we know from hindsight to know that is actually wasn't worth it, but I don't know if I would tell them that.

Yep.

And the reason I would say that is because I think in today's society, I think we've gone the other way. I think because there's like such a movement of pushing and now that we have a lot of, I guess, luxuries in life in terms of how people are brought up and what parents have done for the next generation has made it to, it has made our society, I'm gonna get flack for this, I think I made our society soft.

Mm-hmm.

softer, and which means that it's almost like expected that things are just going to come easy. And I think we've lost as a majority, I'm going to make I'm quote unquote here, I'm generalizing here. And I know it's not applies to everybody. I feel like we've really lost some of that drive in the youth. When I say youth, as I get people in their, you know, teens and 20s, to really go forward and they feel like they've losing that aspect of what it takes. to really be successful. And because if you don't learn in your 20s, I don't think they're gonna get it in the 30s. And this is the fear, right? That's the fear that I have, because I know I can tone it down once I got older, once I got married, and once I got, you know, like having kids and family, but it's hard to go the other way. Just as like, we're sort of where we are now, right? It's hard to go amp up from when we've come down. I think it's a lot easier to go like, okay, I was here. I was being an idiot, pushed too hard.

Thanks for watching! Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, learned a lot of lessons, but now I can, I'm going to tone this down to a level where it's manageable, but I think it's harder to go the opposite way.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. That's exactly what I'm saying in terms of I, I totally agree with you. I think when you've got the energy and the will and the drive and the opportunity, you've got it, you can use it, you can allocate it. Right now, I said, I don't have the energy levels that I had when in my twenties. And so if I'm starting like even in the way we've got about this podcast, Lawrence, you know, like, and the things that you and I are doing, we've got about a totally, if we you know, 30 years ago, this would have been a totally different approach. You know, whereas, right. So we've gone from the point of view of going, okay, we really want to do this. We're going to enjoy this week where, where we've got a sustainable model. And occasionally where we've gone, okay, you're out this week. I'm out this week. No big deal. Right. Because so it's a different process, but if we were doing the same thing, there would have been more pressure, et cetera, et cetera, but that would have been the appropriate way to go about it. What I, I guess.

Yeah, absolutely.

And in Japanese culture, they always say the perfect and ideal mentor for a 20-something year old is a 50-year-old. Because they're not that old that they've got no more dreams and aspirations, but they've learnt a few things along the way that can support the ambitious driven male or female along the way, just from the perspective of not telling them what to do, but rather, hey, listen, you might want to consider this, this and this or... you know, how is this going to affect this and this and this? So what it does, I, you know, I, I deal with, and as you do with a lot of people in their twenties, and I draw energy from that enthusiasm. And hopefully what I can instill in them is the perspective of going, hey, I get it. Don't want to make it wrong. Have you can talk about this, and this, and this. And it's, and that's the combination of the both is really something magical comes out of that because you have the energy and spark coupled with hopefully some wisdom that helps them make better decisions along the way.

Yeah, you're not trying to suppress their energy. You're really what it is. It's just trying to help them navigate the obstacles that they know it's coming, that we know it's coming. Like, because you've seen it a thousand times that it's coming. And when you're in your twenties, you don't see them. Like, I don't know, I didn't see them. And until you hit it, you're like, oh man, why didn't anybody tell me? It's like, but then you realize someone did tell you, you just weren't listening. All right, so it's, and it's, I think that's the important part of having a coach. Like, yeah, if I was in my twenties,

Yeah, that's right.

the last thing I should be listening to is someone who's actually in my 20s or 30s, who is just a little bit ahead of me, because that doesn't help, because they are probably going through just a little bit for me, but by the time they hit something hard, they don't know how to navigate and they're not prepared for it. And so having someone who's a little bit, who's just gone past that, not to tell me what to do, but to kind of go, hey, you know what, Jim, you got a speed bump coming up. Like it's gonna be a big one. And this one you can't avoid. It's coming.

Yep. Yep.

you just got to learn to brace yourself. So now you're prepared for at least it doesn't mean you're going to hit it eventually, but at least you're going to be a bit more prepared. I think that's what that, you know, having a mentor like that does is to avoid pitfalls if you can, but to be prepared for the pitfalls that you can't avoid.

Yep. And you know, I was very fortunate. I had great mentorship, great guidance, great coaching for people who were about 20 years ahead of where I was. And actually there's some people who are still keeping contact with her now. They're hitting their seventies and that's a really interesting age, but I've got this, I feel like I'm in a really great age where not, not when you go to the GP and he tells you that, uh, dude, you're kidding yourself. That that's what, but I mean like, You've you're somewhere in between, you know, you're I still talk to the seven year olds who can look back on their life and go, here's what I learned. This is some great things I learned. These are possibly some things I could have done differently. So I go, yeah, that's great to know. But also I do a lot with people in their twenties and so I can see what's coming in there and I've got the advantage of going, I've got the enthusiasm and, and vigor and energy of youth coupled with the wisdom of someone who's 20 years ahead. So I'm looking at this and go, this is a great sweet spot. I don't know how you see it. Yes, there are some lessons and learnings we learn, but I'm really enjoying the age that I'm at right now for that exactly. So I can see what I've been through. I can get an idea of what's coming, but in the middle, I've still got enough capacity to be able to change some things.

Yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting age at the moment, because it's sort of where you still have the capacity to really change the direction of your life. You know, and I guess you can do that at any point in life. But it's almost like you have this one last go at it's not the last go, but one last big go at it. You know, I mean, like you, you can literally have another 1015 years to doing whatever I'm wanting to do next. And you have a good go at it. So it's not I'm not saying like, it's about one year or two, I'm talking like,

Yep. Yep.

a good run to start a brand new business or another run to start a brand new career path. All of those things can be, it can happen right here in this moment. And I think this is where probably, I don't know, maybe this is where the midlife crisis kind of comes from, right? But people are sort of like, you've done enough to kind of get to where you are, then you really kind of stuck with this question going, is this it? Do I continue doing this for the next 10, 15 years? Or do I want to kind of jump chain?

Yep.

to a different train and actually try something different. And you, you know, and that time does pass. It's coming and it's sort of like, you have this moment because you still, like I said, we did say that we don't have as much energy, but we still got it. We still have enough energy though to actually do something about it. And I think that's a very interesting age. And it is a challenge. Some people decide to say, no, this is what I want to do for the next, you know, 15, 20 years. Awesome. But some people just go, no, maybe I want to try doing that thing that I have.

Yeah. Yep.

always want said I was gonna do whatever did.

So how old is too old?

to do that? Oh, man. I think I don't, okay, so the correct answer is it's never too old. But I'll give you my answer in my head. I think, okay, this answer, thank you for putting me on the spot, but I think the answer comes from, I'll sort of pre-frame this. I'm gonna close my eyes and think. I think this answer comes from more the trajectory of where I feel.

Yeah.

my last few decades have gone. So as I've gone from my 20s to 30s to 40s and where I'm heading towards my 50s, I feel like what we talked about, the energy level and the desire and the motivation become, it feels like it's coming less and less. And on top of that, you add towards the motivation to achieve certain things become less and less as well. So for me, I don't know about you, Jim, as I get older, the things I used to crave and like, spend sleepless nights over, I really don't care anymore. Like it just doesn't, like doesn't drive me, doesn't fool me. So it's not that I have a lack of motivation, but I just realized that I don't really, I don't care about those things anymore. So then, so therefore the motivation kind of like it's, I still have motivation to succeed, but it's not as much because I'm motivated by different things, which I can easily get. I can literally get them, you know, within a year or two years grasp, rather than having this 10 year horizon. So.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Based on that projection, in terms of energy and motivation, I feel like if I hit like late 50s, 60s, I can still change, and here's the if. If the thing I'm chasing motivates me, inspires me enough to rise up towards that, but if there isn't, I think that would be around that age. I feel like then it's more like, okay,

it.

enjoying what I have and really just enjoying what I've already built is probably where I would be. That's sort of how I want to answer that.

Yeah. And I think, I think that's a great, great answer because the reason why I was looking at that was if you've got fundamental needs, like you're, you're looking after and providing for a family. So this is the dynamic that's happened for me. So we had kids quite young and so now our boys are 27 and 23. And so when they were growing up. in my mind, that was part of the drive was to go to provide, to create, you know, providing for the family, whatever. And after a point, now that our boys are independent, it's something, a real shift happens when that occurs, because the moment they're independent, I know yours are still in the magical teenage sort of range, but there's still a lot of energy and support and all those kind of things. But the moment that goes.

Hmm.

And it's my wife and I now, right? We go, okay, so I don't need to provide like I did before. So what you do now has to fuel and feed your soul, your interest, the things that inspire you, because you don't have to do whatever it takes to provide for them anymore. Cause you know, they always said, hey dad, we're good. We've got this covered every now and again, sure. But we don't need the day to day. And something magical happens because you then a switch flicks for you and you suddenly go, great, now I'm going to dedicate my time to these things. And they're the ones that I feel inspired by and they can be just as successful, but you're going at it from a different, your, your motivation and your inspiration is totally different from that. So, um,

Yes. Yeah. I think when you're in your 20s, it's about like, always about finding yourself, right? In your 30s, I think in your 30s and 40s, it's really more about being a bit more selfish. It's really about you, you know, about you and your family. And I think as we transition, I have a feeling, I mean, I was not there, so I don't really know, but I feel like the 50s is balancing that, right? So finishing tailing off. And then the 60s is really more going, I think you do it for others now. Like, you know, because you've done enough for yourself. It's like, now how do I?

Yep.

You know, you have a time limit in this lifetime and it's like, well, how do I really serve others? And if you can align and like, I'm really just. Prophecy sizing right here. Like I'm hoping that this is how it will turn out, but it's like, I feel like if you can align what you're doing and what you're excited about to helping others at the same time, and you can profit from that, or you can make it into a business, then you got a winning combination. Right. But sometimes it's not about that anymore. Like, so that's what I mean. Like it's, if it doesn't.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

create profit and it just allows you to feel fulfilled to leave a legacy behind, then that's just as much a success. Whereas in your 30s, that wouldn't have been enough because you do have that sense of providing for your family that you have to need. There's a need there to fulfill in addition to helping others. So I think that's why I think there's a bit of shift that actually happens.

Yep. You do. And I think that that's where that will probably come in for you there as well, too, because you fast forward 10 years, your kids will be the roughly the ages my kids are and it's a totally different perspective and a totally different ballgame. You know, you've, you've supported them to get to the point where they're going great. This is the direction I'm going. And you've got the magic of just stepping back and going. I can see the individual and the adult that you've grown into. And I'm really happy and proud and all those kinds of things. So my role now changes. In a way it's less, less about providing for you. It's about being here whenever you need, you know, a chat or something like that. And the, the natural tendency that this is why I'm always fascinated by this because when we're younger, we want to expand. There's the tendencies you want to expand the expand the house, the world, the whatever.

Yeah.

But as people get older, the natural tendencies, things start closing in. They don't expand and broad. So they're looking for the house and all the amenities within a five minute radius of there. They don't go out as often. And that's the thing that I'm looking at as well, is to go, okay, so when you don't have to keep expanding by necessity, it has to almost be intentional. You have to keep looking at it because the natural order of things is that life will close in and just get smaller and the radius will get smaller and smaller. So there has to be an intention to go, okay, to resist the ravages of age and whatever. I have to keep leaning into those things within reason so that I don't accelerate my mindset. So for example, back in Australia, there are over 55, the 55 year old retirement. Um, homes you can go into and, you know, the 50, I'll be blown if I'm going into a 55 year old retirement village where I'm just only around 60, 70, 80 year olds. Cause what do you think will happen? I don't think there's going to be too many of them doing a thousand, 2000 burpees a month in that group. For us is it.

No, it's, yeah, we talked about that in a previous episode about the people you surround yourself with, right? And I think that's where we're trying to change the normalcy, right? That's how we started today. It's like, we gotta start shifting our normalcy of what we think is normal as we get older. And I think that starts with us. Like it starts with up here, right? It has to be, you have to believe that that's a different ball game. And I see that so much, but you...

Yep.

but that's also gotta be backed up by not just the mental game, but the physicality of that. Right, and this is why I say so, so important because we tend to lose, I know we're going off on a different topic here, but the mental thing we can change at any time, but the physicality part becomes a lot harder as you get older. And so for anybody who's listening in their 20s and 30s, like what we, my strongest advice is like, don't give up on the physicality because that's so easy to just give up like that.

Yeah.

but it's so much harder to kind of go to gain it back as you get older. Like, you know, for any of us who started working out again in your 40s, you start to realize, I'm like, it's not, it's not obviously not impossible because I really didn't start to really work out until I was about like 40 years old. But I mean, I've definitely done it. I'm not saying I'm the fittest of the world, but it definitely took, it takes longer, right? It takes longer and harder than it would have been in your 20s and 30s because you can take it for granted. Every decade you take it for granted. And if you match that as you're younger, as you get older, and all of a sudden you have the physicality to do anything you want, and you just gotta switch to mental, like mental and physical, oh man, you got it all now, right? Then you can really change the perception. But it's usually during those periods of time, I think around probably when kids are being born, you kind of let yourself go a little bit, and that becomes, and it usually takes, you don't realize it because it's so slow, right? That's so slow. And then by the time you get to that phase where you feel like doing something about it,

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

The grind to go back, again, as we age, it's so much harder to find that grind. We talk about grinding for the business, well, it's the same thing when it comes to the grind to want to work out and get fit again. That's a really big challenge, and not many people can come out on the other side.

Yeah. Yeah, totally agree. So it's, it's not the, it's, yeah. Did you ever watch the muppets and there was two old blokes in the, uh, it's not like we're not, we're not trying to be the two old blokes in the, uh, dress circle. They're just watching the show, just basically bagging out on everybody. It's just basically looking at this and go, okay, this is what we've learned. We're still enthusiastic. We want to do things in life. It's like what we've also learned is, okay, I've seen this before. I've been around the block a couple of times.

Yes.

I understand how that's going. This is how I'm going to move forward. So I guess if there's any lacing of influence, when I'm talking to someone, it's, I guess with, with that perspective, it's to go, Hey, use it, love it. Enthusiastic be aware of this, and this, because I agree. I don't, I don't think telling someone something, unless they specifically ask for it is, is going to get rejected. But if someone specifically come and saying, look, how do you do this, and this, then they're more receptive to it. And so. That's what I've learned as well too is, you know, having kids that are in their twenties, particularly is that they'll, if they want advice, they'll, they'll ask you for it. That unsolicited advice usually doesn't go down well and it's usually your projection of information onto them. But that's really what I would hope someone will take out of this. It's not just do it this way because we're older and we've got, it's more than just to go, Hey, someone get it. You've got dreams, you've got hopes. Awesome. Great. Use those. Keep these things in mind, because at some point things will show up and if you're armed in advance, you know how to navigate that rather than actually just coming to a complete stop, you know, an absolute stop because you neglected something a long way. Whether it was your relationship, whether it was your health, whether it was your finance, whatever it was, it's just having that awareness to go, hey, keep going, but just be aware of these things.

Yep. I think I learned this from Kobe Bryant, actually, when you look at your, and I kind of translated to your business career, right? And it's almost kind of come down to like three, two phases really, right? And the two phases, like the beginning of your career and then the second half of your career. So like to say, we'll split your career. He had a 20 year career. So let's say the first 10 years versus the second 10 years. And one of the things that, you know, I think, you know, the trans, how we translated this was really kind of think about the first half of your working life is about working harder. This is what I said earlier. It's about like in your 20s and 30s, you gotta work hard. You just gotta work hard because it creates not, it creates that work ethic that you don't know you have yet. And I think that's why it's about working harder. And then the second half of your career is about working smarter. And this is when you start to realize, so why I say use Kobe Bryant is because Kobe Bryant, when he got into the league when he was 18 years old, and you know, he can outwork anybody. at 18, 19, 20 years old, right? He can just outwork you because he had the amount of energy. And let's face it, when you're in 20s and 30s, you can outwork most people. And that's the gift that you have. If you're a 20, 30 year old right now, you can outwork me because I have a family, have other, you can outwork me because you have the energy, you have less attachment, you have less, so you can definitely outwork me. The difference, if you're listening to this and you're in your 40s and 50s and 60s, what we have our advantage is that we have wisdom behind us. So we have to use being working smarter. And the second half of Kobe Bryant's career, he realized that he wasn't rehabbing as well as he used to when he was 18 years old. He wasn't getting back from injuries as quickly as he normally did. He couldn't last as long in the games for as long as he when he was, you know, he could play for two, three hours at a time. So what do you have to do? You just have to work smarter. You actually now have to think about, okay, I need to maybe don't take that step because I don't need to waste that energy. So he started thinking about his technique. He started working about his training, what supplements he was taking, what kind of training he would do. He started doing, I think, Pilates and stuff to loosen up his joints so he would actually take some of the impact a little bit better. So all these things was working smart. I mean, I'm sure you were thinking, 20-year-old, you're like, Pilates what? Like, are you kidding me? Right? Like, he's like, whatever, right? You don't think about those things because you don't feel it. But when you get older, you start thinking. So if you use that same analogy in business, it's the same thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like the second half of our careers is like, we're not, we may not be able to work as hard, right? But I'm going to work smarter than you. I'm going to know certain things that, that's going to burn you, but I'm going to take my pace. I'm going to take my time because I'll catch up at the end. And those are the type of things that you just learned from the second half of your career.

it. Yeah. And you do take it for granted. You know, you talk about not preparing. I get chipped every day. I go to train. I'll get to training about 20 minutes before scheduled class. And that's just to do the warmup before the warmup. But it's like, I'm like a, an old car on a cold morning that, you know, back in the day when you have to use choke to get it started, it takes me a little while to get going. But, but unless I do that, I'm, I'm not listening to my body. And so consequently that ends up being a problem. But here's the thing that's fascinating when you were talking about Kaby Bryant.

Yes.

You look at LeBron, LeBron James, you look at Tom Brady, guys who traditionally, no one expected them to still be performing at the highest level at their age. But when you talk to them, or you know, you talk to them, you listen to their interviews and the narrative, they were meticulous about their time off there, their, their rehab, their diet, the, all the things that allowed them to operate at that optimum level. was they almost had to work harder, but they got to understand what their requirements were as time goes on. Because I think to a level, you don't only just get wiser about general life, but you get clued in on what works best for you as well. And you start going this food, this doesn't agree with me or I don't perform well when I do this, this and this. So over time, you start taking that on board to consequently make better decisions, the clearer decisions, because you know yourself a lot better as well.

Yeah, you look at Tom Brady, he's like over 40 years old and he is fitter now than he was when, if you look at a picture when he got drafted. Like the picture when he drafted is brutal, right? Like, and that's the thing, like, and when you're younger, you just, you rely on skills. You rely on like talent, you know? But when you're like 30, like we're talking sports here, when you're 30 year old, like you can no longer rely on talent skills because guess what? The 18 year old is probably more talented than you were, you know, or than you are right now.

Oh no, that was... Yeah.

So therefore you have to work a little smarter. This is where experience comes into play. That's what I love watching, like these players who've been in the league for a long time in any sport, they're just wiser. They don't have to exert energy. And I'll give you an example of paddle. Like paddle, we have, in paddle, it's a very defensive sport. And we have a lot of expats, as I mentioned before. You got a lot of Americans and Australians and Europeans kind of come into play. But there's a different style of play between the Americans,

Yep.

or us expats coming into play versus the Portuguese play. And the Portuguese have a name for it, I actually don't know what it is, but I guarantee it will be the same thing for the Spanish because these European players have been playing for a long time, okay? It's been around for a long time. And they play, if you watch their game, it's very slow. It's very, very slow because they're waiting for the opportunity to win. Whereas us expats, what are we doing? We're trying to win every single point. We're hitting as hard as we can. We're like, I'm gonna win this point. And we make the dumbest mistakes.

Really? Yep. Right. Yep.

I would say half if not more, the points are one because we just make a mistake. Not because we won it, because we made a mistake. And I could go play a game, I've done this many times, I went in a tournament one time. I got killed 6-0. I was drenched in sweat. And guess what? I was playing a guy who was overweight, he was probably two or three times my weight size and he didn't beat a sweat at all because all he did was he just, I kept telling him everything I'd hit him, he just bounced right back. Every time I hit it back to me.

Yeah. Yeah.

bounce it right back and it's like he just stood there and he at the end of the game he goes guys it was Portuguese and he goes I just made you run the whole time right and I was like running around the chicken because I'm fit I can run I can run I can run but the guys like just lobbing it lobbing and right get me out of position it goes donk and then there's the point

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's happened to me on a squash court as well too. And I've played against a guy who was, you know, you thought was going to fall over from cardiac arrest, but he's getting me to run all over. But he had, he had great court coverage. He realized from an efficiency, I only need one or two steps and I've just got to angle. And so he had the, the wisdom of the game. He had knowledge. And that's why when you talk, you know, whenever you've got a sporting team. They always try and keep preserved one or two, three players who've got some experience to, to support and train and coach the younger guys coming through. You never want a totally inexperienced team, but you never want a group of, of a team that are too old that I haven't got run in them anymore, but that I've seen that play out personally, where you've got exuberance and enthusiasm and you'll burn your petrol tickets for an a wily old bugger who knows exactly where to position himself and how to get you to run. for the whole guy.

Yeah, and if you apply that to business now, like at our age right now, if we're starting something brand new, like this podcast is brand new, as you mentioned, as you used that as an example, we're gonna pace it. We're not in it for like a quick win here. We're just gonna go, like, we're just gonna record, is what we're gonna, this is the rhythm, and we're gonna have to pace it because we're smarter. Right now for our age, right now, is just like, we don't want to go through the push, push because that would make it not fun. And we know if it doesn't make it fun, then we're just gonna quit. And, yes.

Yep. And that was the agreement from the start. That was of all the things that we said from the start, it's like, hey, we're gonna do this, whatever. We'll see where it goes, but it's gonna be fun. I've got to get on every day and want to be with you and have a conversation, talk about that. The moment it's not fun, we've both got other things that we could be doing, but we're choosing this because this is, and this is how I've gone about it as well.

Yeah. And I think if we were to start back in our twenties, like say your kids age, if they're going to start something, it's like, yeah, they got that you, you got to leverage your youth. You got to leverage the energy, the tenacity and the outworking mentality that you can actually leverage it. And yeah, sometimes you need a bit of wisdom from, from the, from, from people who was a little bit older, who've seen it. So they can guide you to help you scale faster and don't get lost in those tunnels. Um, those cul-de-sacs we talked about earlier, um, you know, those dead ends that don't lead anywhere.

Yeah.

and it's to kind of catch it going, maybe you want to come out of that cold because it's a cold sack, it's not going to go anywhere. So maybe use the energy somewhere. So, you know, having a mentor who's a little bit older and wiser helps you avoid, actually speeds you up because it helps you avoid some of those times that you get lost in the corners and to really kind of be more directed. So it's a balance of both things, but you know, you gotta, I always talk about to like new grads, for example, you got technology, you have all this, you grew up in the social media world, that's your leverage. Right? But if you're older, you don't have that leverage, but you have leverage of wisdom. You have leverage of understanding people and communicating them that these young ones don't have. So you all have advantage. It just depends on how you choose to see it. And if you stick to your strengths, not your weaknesses, you're going to be able to be successful no matter what age you are.

Yeah. And I think we, you know, just bringing it back to how we went about this whole podcast as well too. We started off and recorded for quite a while before we went, right. We're going to start releasing some things and if anybody's listened to you, probably found the sound quality of my microphone has gotten better as times gone on purely because this is a, this is a reason we recorded them for so, for so long until we actually realized that. my mic was just terrible. And we made a conscious decision to go, listen, I'm gonna just keep, if it was any other podcast, we would have done that. But Wabi Sabi was the art of imperfection. We just went, what a great concept and idea. Just keep going with it, just roll with it. Whoever's gonna listen is gonna listen and they're gonna forgive me for the part of the recording that wasn't ideal. But how we've got about that, and I'd love you to mention it if you could, Lauren. It's like, so. We got a little bit of a break before you and I come back together to record because we're going off and doing some things, both of us. Now, anybody who will be listening won't notice a drop in the schedule because we've banked them up so much that we did that deliberately. We did it for the view that we can't have this to be so restrictive. There's been times where you and I have gone, we were scheduled. And a few weeks ago for me, I just went, listen, Lawrence, it's not working for me today. My head's not in it. can't record today and we're like, cool, no problem, no problem. And there's other times when you've said, Hey, I can't make today. And we're okay with that. And that's, that's an example of how we did it. We prepared, we had such a bank in, you know, the recordings in the bank so that we could still carry on life and it will still be fun, but it wasn't a drain.

Yeah, absolutely. And the planning in that is such a key element. We know where in the past we would be scrambling. I remember the previous podcasts I've done, we were scrambling because we got to release something by tomorrow. So it's like we never had, we had every intention to have a bank of episodes, but I swear to you, we never had more than ever two. At any given time over the six year period that I was a part of that podcast. And it was always a scramble. It was, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And that was a hugely successful podcast, Lawrence and a massive movement and all those things. But, but that was, that was the thing that you, that when we started having these conversations that you were clear on is that wasn't sustainable for you. And for us to do it, we had to come up with it and that you, we bought it. I was in the same boat, right? Um, where I, I couldn't go, here's just another thing that I've got to do. It couldn't be that. And I think it was because of both the experience that we had, we went, okay, if we're going to do this, we're going to do it differently in a different sort of.

And I think that's the idea of if you're gonna plan something now, and we're all, the reason why we're having this topic around, you know, having this conversation about starting and also seeing what the obstacles are and seeing, you know, leveraging your strengths, all of these things that really comes down to because I feel every one of us right now who's listening and watching this is that you're embarking about something new right now, you're thinking about it, at least, you know, we all are. And if you're thinking about embarking on news, these are all something new, you these are the things you have to contend with. These are the things you have to think about. And when you start to think about these things, you know, you want to be able to add them to your decision making so that you're actually making wise decisions going into it. Not think, because I think where most people make, I feel like most people seem to make the mistake is they move on to something new as if they would've, the same way they'd done it 20 years ago with the same thing, but not realizing that you're now 20 years older. Wiser, but older, which means that the same thing of what you were able to do 20 years ago isn't the same.

Yep.

version of yourself that what you can do now. It might be better, it might be worse, but it's not the same. And times have changed as well. So therefore, how you activate your strengths, how do you approach life, how you approach marketing, how do you approach those things are completely different. And you have to see it from that new perspective, not based on how you used to do. You just can't copy and paste. And I think that's the challenge that people need to kind of really think through and filter through before they take action.

Yep. Yeah, I like it. So Lawrence, just in full disclosure for people who are listening too, we're not scheduled to record now for a couple of weeks. And you're heading off, you're on a plane later on this week, and then I'm on my way. If you're okay to just let people know a little bit about why you'll be away and what you'll be doing, and then I can let people know how and what I'm up to, so that way they can see that we're congruent, we're living what we're talking about. And so what are you heading off to, what are you up to?

Well, I'm actually heading off to an event that I used to attend with entrepreneurs from around the world. It's a call mastermind talks. And, you know, it's a, an event that I used to go every single year and they only have about 120 people, um, that you get to be invited to, uh, just fortunate to be part of that group and, and since COVID I haven't been able to attend. And so this is my first time going back and going to get to see some old friends and new friends too, as well. It's uh, and what's powerful it's about, you know, we had that episode around the, the cloud five closest people. And I realized that after my second time I went there, like some of my closest friends are actually in this group. And so it's gonna be great to be able to, you know, go back to the States. This is the first time since the last time I was there, it's funny enough, was actually the Super Bowl in 2020, just before COVID. Yeah, that was the last time I actually been to the States. And funny enough, the first thing I'm gonna go see is my Niners playing. So I got to, you know, end.

Yes, is that right? Ooh, wow. Nice, nice.

my estates and then start the states to go and see my Niners go play. So that's going to be the fun thing. I'm looking forward to watching them play again and live. So I'm going to go there really more to connect and get together with some of my old my old friends and meet some great people. And that's what I'm doing.

Yeah. And isn't it, isn't it important? Like there's a, there's a tendency as we, you know, you, you and I had from even a professional capacity, but also within the coaching space, there's certain things that we know we capable of, and there's a temptation for a lot of people to go, yeah, being there, done that, know how to do it. I don't need more of that. And yet both of us are very actively involved and still immersing ourselves in that kind of thing. So I spent a weekend at a conference. you're heading up to in there. So I think that's a really important component is that being lifelong learners, being people that we still immerse yourself in it, you're still doing that. You're going to the other side of the world or actually a lot closer than you used to. No.

Absolutely. No, no, that's the thing. It's taking me longer from here to get to LA than it was for me from Sydney to LA. Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's gonna take me 18 hours because I have a long way over in London, but like the flight time, the flight time is about the same from Sydney to LA than from Portugal to London. If I just only count the flight time, it's literally gonna take me 14 hours. I'm like, I moved, me too. Nope.

Oh really? Get out. Really? Whoa. Oh, okay. Really? I'm shocked. I'm shocked. That's what was closer.

It's literally 11 hours from London to LA at the three hours from here to London. That's 14 hours, which is pretty much about the same from Sydney to LA. So I was pretty shocked with that too. So anyways, but not that I'm complaining.

Yeah. Yeah. No, so that's the thing. So the 20 year old person who would have been doing that trip, what would have been the turnaround time?

Oh, the turnaround time, I mean, I would be there, what? You mean like how long would it stay for or? Yeah.

There, there, yeah, so effectively, because you're going to a game and stuff, so have you allowed a bit of time on it? Okay.

I'm going there for a week. I'm going there for, so I'm gone an extra day, day to catch the game. Yeah, so about day before and I'm coming straight back. So it's the first, it's the longest time I've actually been away from my family since COVID, before COVID started. So it'll be interesting. Cause I got another trip coming up in Bali, which is a month from now, running a retreat there. So, but yeah, and before I'll be in and out, like I'll be going in there, flying 24 hours, flying maybe three days, 24 hours. I'm coming back straight back. Cause you know, when young kids, young kids, you know, you want to,

Yep. That was my point.

You know, you want to shorten that time. Now that the kid's a little older, I can buy myself an extra 48 hours to kind of do the things I want to do while I'm over there. Yeah, what about you?

Nice, nice. And when you get back is when I'm heading off. I'm heading off to Greece. I'm heading off. I'm going to catch up with some relatives of mine who have got a reunion in my dad's island in Greece. As I go, I'm heading off to an island. Yeah, so it's a little village. It'd be a beautiful, rustic town that I'm in. It's as much.

Nice.

the journey, but the opportunity, because they reached out and said, listen, we're going to be here. You're two hours away. Would you come? And I went, yeah, absolutely. So I caught up. Well, I'm going to catch up with them, but it's, it's just, it's going to be. Retracing my dad's story. You know, I think I might've mentioned I'm going to be, you know, staying in the house and the room that my dad grew up in and, um, you know, basically going and looking at the fields that they plowed.

Yeah.

when he was a little boy, you know, all those kinds of things. So I'm really excited. It's an expansion of an experience, but also a rite of passage. It's kind of like a, I'll learn a lot about myself. And that's what always fascinates me. Is I always want to learn either in an environment, putting myself in situations where I'm around smart and intelligent people, or find something new. adventure, curiosity, I just need to feed that because I feel like I grow heaps when I do that. So that's what I'll be doing. So that's why we will have a break from physically recording for a couple of weeks while we're heading off doing the things that will feed ourselves.

Mm. Yeah, I think the highlight here is to ensure that you, you know, your business succeeds and continues while you are able to kind of live the life you want to do. And that's why we do it, right? Cause we not into the business just to do business, but it allows you to freedom to kind of go do those things and continue to learn so you can bring more back. I love to, I can't wait to hear the lessons you're going to take, take away from, you know, going back to your ancestry and look, learning through that process and making, you know, the emotions that come out of that and the insights that you're going to get. So I think that's, we already kind of know what we might be talking about over the next few episodes.

So same. Yeah. Yeah, who knows? It's like, what have we been up to for the last few weeks? So that'd be, that'd be great. But this was great. Lawrence. I really, uh, really took a lot out of our conversation today.

Well guys, I, again, uh, as we started this podcast, I would love to make sure you subscribe to us and, uh, really, it would be really important as it will be, do us a great favor. If you can share these podcasts with, uh, your friends or family who needs to hear this, because that's how we're going to be able to impact more people and, uh, in their lives. So today is, uh, we're going to be enjoying ourselves for the next couple of weeks, but for you, it would just be next week on our next episode of the Bobby Savvy podcast. Take care. See you.