Choosing Your 5 Closest People

Welcome back to another episode of Wabi Sabi. I'm so excited to really be here because it's the first time we actually, this is the first recording since we actually met in Portugal. Uh, I ran an event there and Jim came over. So excited to see Jim in person. It's been a long time. Actually. And I was thinking back, like how many years have actually been that I actually met you face to face? Now we've done enough zoom calls. We've done like all these recordings and stuff. I never gave you a big hug, man. It was just such a, such a cool experience to be able to.

Yep. It has. Yeah.

finally meet face to face and we're on a different continent.

Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was. It was. And I look, I had an absolute, well, I'm still buzzing from our time away. We've posted on social some of the experiences that it was. And it was, it was fantastic. It wasn't just an immersion of people that got together who had a collective interest in improving themselves. But you did that really, really well is just teasing out of everybody, you know, just the parts of them that helped. basically helped the whole group, but then also mixed it with fun and experiences. It was really great. I came home buzzing with infinite opportunities and ideas coming up, so thank you for that. It was absolutely awesome.

Oh, I'm so glad you were able to accept my invitation. And yeah, it was a great event. I had, it turned out better than I expected, to be honest with you. And now that in hindsight, and I'm really glad how everything worked, even the weather turned it on for us for, you know, for the two days that, you know, just for those two days we needed to, the weather to be turned on. So everything worked out really nicely. So I was, I'm pretty excited.

it. И ты, и ты! So if you're curious at any time that you're listening to this recorded, get onto Lawrence's socials and have a look at the video that, uh, uh, Kaia prepared his daughter. It was absolutely a great synthesis of some events. It captured, uh, one of the participants, James, just narrowingly beating you in an axe throwing competition. And it was like when, when we were betting for sheep stations, James was basically the ice man in the last throw of the day. So it was really cool, but you know,

Ha ha ha!

What it highlighted for me, and I think this is a really good segue into what I want to talk about, I guess from my perspective, I'd really love to talk about, not I don't want to, is just how important it is to regularly immerse yourself and associate with people who are on a similar journey, you have to mix it with a whole lot of fun and a great opportunity to grow.

Yeah, you know, like one of my events, the events called Beyond and you know, if you're kind of going back and I don't know when this episode is going to get released, but it'll be sort of late November when you know the videos there. So, but you're absolutely right. I mean, for me, an event should be about a lot of events we go to. It's very one way, one directional, meaning like, is usually you being a participant is actually information sort of being directed at us. So it's very unique, unique directional focus. And I don't like events like that as too much because I think you and I are old enough and wise enough now to recognize that that only serves us at the beginning of like learning and absorption, but it really doesn't enhance us as a human being that much anymore because you kind of like, you kind of hear the same thing repeated over and over again. I think what I created an event like this, mostly because I feel what I was missing is really about the evolution of how learning should be done, which is,

Yep.

which is like taking content and then applying it into real life and real, and that is really finding the right people and the right experiences to facilitate those discussions. And so today's topic is really about like, how do we elevate? And one of the things that you either, either you know it or you don't know it, you elevate by ensuring yourself that you're surrounded by amazing people.

Hmm.

Now that's easier said than done sometimes, but we've heard it so many times over and over again. The.

Yeah. Well, Jim Rone used to say that all the time, right? He always used to say that.

Hmm, yeah. Yeah, and that comment was like, cause it was, you know, you are, as a person, you are the average of the five closest people that surround you. And so now I believe that was Jim Rohn, and whether that is true or not, but I think if you really evaluate yourself, I love for every listener, you know, watcher of this is to actually evaluate that sound and goes, is that true for you? You know, I think that's something to, I think there's definitely some truth to that. And

Yep. Yep. Hmm.

You know, that's the discussion we want to have today. So Jim, let's start with you. Like, you know, first of all, do you believe in that? I know the answer to that, but like, and when did you discover this phenomenon in terms of recognizing that in your life?

Yep. 100% I aspire to that quite a lot and I said it as an intention to surround myself and be around people who have, they don't have to look the same, be the same, but approach life in a similar way. And to me, I think I noticed it in high school because I realised that... Some of the group that I was hanging around with I realized okay, they were fun There was a sporty group that I that I was involved with there was also the academic group that I really wanted to progress and move forward and I I kind of had an interest in both and I I realized that if I just hung around with the people who were interested in just sport and that's all they were going to do. They were heading down the wrong path, a path that I knew it was a problem. And I, and I realized very early on that I had to have the strength of my own convictions and say, no, that's, that doesn't feel right for me. So I think that was probably the earliest inkling of it that sort of evolved from there.

You know, that's a really good point. I think the first thing I think people should take away is having the awareness, right, of the people around you and how that affects you is very important. And it doesn't really matter when you have that awareness, as long as you have awareness, period. And the reason why I say that is because I find that a lot of people don't... that you either create your life intentionally or you create it unintentionally, right? That's probably the best way to put it. And the way you do it intentionally is that you actually have to be aware of what things influence those success in life, right? Because if you know what are some of the key factors, and this is what we've been discussing all these episodes, is like, what are some of the key factors? And they're not just one, it's not even just five, there's tons, but these are like just another 1% when you need to think about is that

Yeah.

the people you hang around it is a definite, I believe and you believe, is a massive impact on the direction of your life and the success of your life. But you have to be aware of that. And for you to be able to have that awareness when you were young, that's amazing, because I'm sure that would have shaped you in some way and definitely created those many sliding door moments that could have gone either way.

Yeah. Yeah.

And those decisions, that early decision would have changed it, hold your directory of your life. We might not even be sitting here like this, based on that choice back when you were 15 or something.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I think there's a couple of people, or different ways that you can reference situations and people, either you internally reference or externally reference, i.e. you internally reference, you have your own reference point and say, how do I feel about this? What do I look at this? And that tends to be like your compass or your guiding star, as opposed to externally, where you seek validation externally from other people, other situations. And I think for me, I realized very early on, that I'm internally referenced. And so a lot of the times what's going on around me externally hasn't got as much bearing. And so if I feel congruent with my values, if I feel that I'm on the right path, if something's a yes, for me it's either a heck yes or a hell no. And it can be that clear. And I think that that extends to people who I choose to spend my time.

Hmm Hmm.

And really, and I think this is something that I've been consciously aware of as I've grown and matured, is there's a finite amount of time that I have in this earth. And I've become more aware of it as I've gotten older. And so for me to choose to spend time with people that I really need to and want to spend time with, means that I basically have to be selective in some of the time I spend with people who aren't necessarily on the same path and journey.

Hmm. I think just could make sure we go to this point. I think you, I love that by the way, the internal, you know, understanding your own internals and, and, and whether which one's the, you know, what guides you. But one of the things I think is important is that when you're younger, um, I find that, I don't know if you agree with me, Jim, but like for me, I find when you're younger, my advice to younger people, and I'm saying younger, usually like, you know, in your twenties, um, say yes to more things than saying no, uh, but as you get older. that kind of switches over a little bit. I think probably in your 40s, I would say, like things that you start to realize like, okay, time is more precious and it's more about more saying no than saying yes to. I'm not sure if it's like, and I know these ages are ranges and depending on where parts of your life it is, but like for me, I think that's really important because we're both, you know, a little older than, you know, though I guess it depending on who's listening, but I just find that 20, early 30s, I think is saying yes to more things. And then later on there's a transitional period time. And then you start

Thank you.

you know, for us right now, in my late 40s, it's like, it's more nos than yeses. I don't know if you agree with that.

Yeah, yeah. You get selective, you really do. I think that that's definitely in the earlier years, I guess when you're seeking to be part of a group, you're seeking confirmation, you wanna be included, you're more likely to want to do what other people are doing and. I wouldn't say please, but really potentially compromise what's really important to you to be a part of a group. I think as time goes on and you do get more comfortable in your skin and become aware of what's really important to you, who you are and what you stand for, you probably are more selective. And I think it's probably more selective for me than anything over time.

I think that happens mostly because you start, you're more in tune with who you are as you get older. We try and narrow you figured out like what's important to you, what's not, who's important, who's not. And you start to realize like time is more of a limited resource where when you're younger and you have all the time in the world, like I'm sure we would all love to go back to our 20s and go redo some of the things that, and say some yeses to certain things. But.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

We can't do that. And so it's like, okay, well, how do we squeeze the most out of life now? And it is about being very selective because I think every decision we make, every choice we make, and let's bring it back to today's topic, like for every choice you make with say friends or people in your circle, you're saying no to someone else because it takes time, right? And that's decision. Like decision is to kill off options. And when you make a decision to do one thing, you are killing options for something else. And...

Okay. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that's important. And so as you get older, you start realizing that you can't do them all. So you have to be very selective and you might as well choose and put bets on, um, the things that are going to reap you the most reward towards what you already value or know where you want to go. Um, but I think when you're younger, you don't necessarily have that direction. Yeah. You're not clear cause you're not sure. So therefore you kind of place multiple bets, um, and hopefully one's a winner. And, uh,

Yep, yep. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And that's how I think that's how we kind of utilize life that way.

Yeah, I also want to make the distinction that the people you associate with you aren't always the people who are going to agree with everything that you say because you may have someone who is contrarian to what you have, who you really love spending time with because they alert you to your blind spots. They alert you to a part of yourself that you weren't even aware of or challenge you to step the hell up. And as a result of that, you know that that person is great for you. And so the other distinction, I guess, is in being eternally referenced, is I've always ensured that I don't always have yes people around me. As much as we all want to go, yep, this is what I want. And everybody says, yep, that's exactly right. I do that. The pushback sometimes that comes from people who you really value, you know, they might annoy you at the start, but then you go, you know what, I sat with this and I really appreciate who you are in my life because you've challenged me to think more. with more depth or think more broadly than I otherwise would have. So I count those kind of people as cherished sort of amongst the cherished five so to speak as well.

Yeah, it's definitely someone who you, uh, you gotta trust as well. And, and, and like the trust factor does come into play and that they care enough about you to tell you the truth, but they do it in a loving way not to put you down. And that's the thing, like you gotta, those five closest people, you gotta know that they're always have your back and having your back means that, that they might tell you the truth, the truth that you don't want to hear sometimes or to kind of bring at least in an, in a way that you, you can hear it. And that's

Yeah. Yeah.

you know, you need that. Otherwise you're just in this echo chamber of that, you know, thinking you're awesome at everything and then realizing that, you know, hey, you're not. So I think it's so, so, so important. Maybe let's shift the discussion around. How have you, I think, you know, one common thing is, is that how do you find, you know, these people? Because it's really difficult to do that. You know, what is your process?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, that's a great question. And I think it's, it's, I basically, I like engaging with people. And the more I get to know about someone over time, I find the commonality and themes and, and, and what we have going, you know, in common in that regard. So I think it's, you know, here's the thing, like I've got some friends that I had from childhood and they're great friends. I don't. They're not necessarily the friends that I discuss my most inner thoughts or visions or dreams or because they were awesome for that part of my life and my world. And I think what I... Yeah. I know, but what I mean by like, I don't ever believe we're stuck in cryogenics. I think we're evolving, adapting human beings. And so I can still have great friends.

Yeah, you say that for the podcast.

that were great friends at a different time and then as things evolve it may shift the dynamics of a friendship and a relationship. So I value all friendships and I never burn them, I never cut them off in a way that sometimes is spoken about in... in personal growth and development. It's like cut the dead wood. I just don't like that feeling. It's just that I just find I'm naturally drawn to want to spend more time with people who I have commonality in and who help elevate me. And I think that that's how I do that. I get an internal feeling afterwards, after I've spent time with them, I go, that was awesome, that was great. I really loved that. I had so much fun. I learned about myself, I want to do it again. And that's really how I do it in there as well. I don't keep KPIs in there. I think that just for me, it's a bit more humanistic. that regard. I don't have a spreadsheet for that. There's other things I keep spreadsheets for. I've got friends who, like, okay, you know, disclosure time, I, with every book I read, I'll read a book, I'll write a summary, I'll keep notes and whatever, and I can refer back to them. So that I'm pretty pedantic about, but my friends and KPIs, no, just very hard, hard focused in it.

You don't have a spreadsheet. So you're not keeping track how many times I call you or message you or anything like that and scoring it. I'm just joking.

Um, no, no, no, no, no, but that's, but that's honestly, like, you know, just even in, in us, yeah, even in us, right, you know, but we, we, we talked about this over the, over the weekend with, with the participants at, at the retreat was even in the time that you and I have known each other, which is over quite a while professionally, really that evolved, particularly in the last two years. And as a result of that, there was commonality, there was some themes, it was like, and that's, I think, how it goes. You actually, you might know someone for a while, and they're kind of like on the outer circle, and then over time, you know, hey, this is cool, you've got kids, I've got kids, and there's commonality there, and that's how it expands and contracts. That's how I see those kind of friendships develop.

Yeah, absolutely. I just spent 100% for sure. And there's no it's it is a very gut feel. So let's kind of go through my process. I feel like a lot of it's gut feel. It's very intuitive for me. When I meet someone, you know, I just get a natural feel for whether or not they could be a potential it's not like, Oh, my God, I met my like, you know, see, you know, like that the person the best person who's gonna fit me my file, who's gonna knock whom I'm gonna knock out, right? That doesn't I don't go through that process or anything. It's like, yeah, he's right. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, who's my top five? Who's out? Who's out? Who could have got it coloured?

We're going to upgrade now and sorry, sorry for number five. You're going to number six a lot now. Um, it doesn't work that way. No, it's for me, it's like intuitively when you meet someone, you, you, you get a gauge and there's like this energy about someone and sometimes I can't explain it. Everybody's gonna be different for me. It's like, I'm looking for really amazing people. Um, so I'm not looking for it. So when I meet someone, I'm like, you know, do I resonate with those people? You know, and. You know, what are some of the, usually it's because we have common, common interests or common values. or they're just generally nice, like amazing people. And I resonate with that. And so, but that doesn't mean like they're gonna become my closest friend right off the bat. But like you said, it takes time. And sometimes certain friendship develops really quickly. Certain friendship takes a long time to mature, but it's no different than any relationship in life. And for me, it's that intuitive gut instinct. But I think the most important thing is nurturing that. So let's go into like maybe how you develop those friendships. I think for me, a lot of like a lot of close friends that I have, um, some of it, some of them wouldn't, I don't think if, if I didn't engage or create the opportunities for them to know me or to get engaged, to have that connection, I don't think they would have gone out of their way to become friends with me. That makes sense. Like it wouldn't be, maybe when I met them in a

Yep. Yep. Yep.

a meeting or a conference or just passing. Most people don't go out of their way to kind of develop friendship and the move I made here in Portugal since moving here, I made it really intentional for me to go up, like do more to engage in people and take the first step. Like rather than waiting for people to call you, I do the calling and calling just could be like a message. It could be like checking on someone and be more intentional about.

Yeah.

keeping relationships going, right? And it could just be a simple message. You know, hey, Jim was thinking about you today. Just wanted to see how you're doing. So actually there's a tip. So here's one thing I do do. I've learned this a long time ago. It just naturally came to me. You know those moments where sometimes you're doing something random like gardening or even the shower or like whatever, just biking or walking. And all of a sudden like someone's. name or the thought of that person just comes to your mind out of nowhere. Okay. I have learned right. Um, to take action on that. So in the past I was like, Oh, just say I'm thinking about Jim and then I'm like, Oh, you know, like, Oh yeah, one more house in Jim and then I guarantee you within the next 24 hours you would message me and go, Hey, Lawrence was thinking about you. I'm like, damn it. He beat me to the punch. Right. And so enough of that stuff happens to me. Yeah.

Hmm. Yeah, yeah, that happens a lot. It happens a lot, right? Yeah.

So I just go, you know what, I'm going to take the first action of as soon as I'm walking or something. And I think of you, Jim, I might just go, all right, I'm going to message Jim right now. Honestly, it would just be a simple thing. Go, Jim, thinking of you, how are you doing? You know, and that's it because in you don't even need to respond. You know, I don't need you to respond. It's just like, I'm just thinking about you. And guaranteed like, I can't, you know, get those percentage on it. But like, you know, a high percentage 80% of time, you go, that's so funny. I was just thinking about you yesterday.

Yeah, yeah. You're on the same wavelength. Yes, yeah. Mm-hmm.

or I was just thinking about you or just talking about you. And it's like this magical thing that happens. And if even if they weren't, right? It doesn't matter to me because it's like, I made the effort to make that connection and keep that relationship alive. I know it's very difficult. I'm not a person just so that there's clear, there's two types of people in this world. I think one type of person is like, who has lots of connections and a lot of friends. I'm not that.

Yep. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

I'm more of a closer circle, smaller groups of friends. Um, and those people are usually connectors that can connect me to other people at a second or third degree later on. So that will be one tip I would make to everybody is to go, if something comes into your mind, I would action it right away. There's nothing wrong. Like, you know, even if it wasn't a productive or whatever, it will go a long way if you just do it more often. I think that's one of the good ways to do it.

Yes. Yeah, I do the same thing Lawrence, particularly when I think of someone, I initiate, I do that same thing. And it's amazing how many times you're like, yeah man, I was actually just thinking about you as well. So there's a energetic force field that is out there. It's a quantum field that basically we all respond to. And I think that's what happens there. There's a couple of interesting things that I wanted to point out too. You mentioned about intention and setting the intention as that. I think that happens a lot. and has to happen because when we grow up and we go to school, your friendship circle or group is basically predetermined by your proximity. Hey, you're in my class, we're in the same class, we're sat next to each other. So that's your exposure, the sum total. Perhaps you play sport, you meet a few other people, but you don't know whether you're gonna resonate with these people and a lot of the times what happens for a lot of people as they grow is...

That's right.

They stick with the same group of people because they've known them forever and they don't know anybody else. And as you grow, you suddenly realize, hey, there's more and more people that are really like me that didn't go to the same school. And so that's what happens, but that is coupled with as we get older, we're less open to opening up new relationships. So we have to make it more of an effort because when you're a kid, hey, you're in grade one or two, it's like, hey, you got... brown hair, I got brown hair, you got black hair, let's be friends. But that doesn't happen in the adult world. You have to be more intentional and they've got more criteria that you're looking for. So you do have to seek it out and you do have to basically make it as intention to say I wanna connect, I wanna meet people. I still wanna cherish the friendships that I have and for me to grow, I have to make it a habit of it rather than just turning up and there it is.

You know, you make a really good point. I'm gonna use an example here. And let's kind of go through this example. I don't know if it's helpful, but. So one of the things, and I don't mean, I hope some of our friends, I would never offend any friends, I don't think, I hope, but it's nothing to knock on them, but I think it's a really important story. So when I first moved to Australia from Canada, I graduated from CMCC, Chiropractic College, and I moved pretty much straight away, actually, within like a month of graduating, I moved to Australia. and I happened to be in Adelaide and that was where a lot of my local work was done. And I loved it. I loved like Australia, I loved the people, I loved the work and I was telling all my friends, all my classmates, I go, guys, you gotta come to Australia. Like, there's so much work here, you know, I'm having a blast and this was within the first month or two and sure enough, I would say one, two, three, four, I think four or five of my classmates all moved to Adelaide within a three month period of time.

Wow.

And, um, and it was amazing. It was cool. Right. I just spent four years with them and now I'm like, they're all there and all the Canadians are all hanging out there. Right. By the way, they're all still there. Right. So, um, so this is not no offense to them, but there was a moment in time. I still remember it, uh, was when I was with Karen, I was doing local work and I had this opportunity in Perth, uh, which is on, for those of you don't know, Perth is like literally on the other side of the country, uh, on the West Coast. And, and I remember I had to make a conscious decision.

Yeah.

I had a job in Adelaide that was offered to me and I had a job in Perth. And I made a conscious decision to move to Perth instead of staying in Adelaide. One mostly, one was for the job, but the other second part was actually because of the friends I actually had in Adelaide. Like I said, I love them dearly, no offense to them at all. This has nothing to do with them, but it's actually has something to do with them. It was this, is that I just spent four years with them. And if I stayed in Adelaide,

Hmm. Yeah.

I knew I would fall into the trap of living to their expectations of me. That's what friendship does, right? That's the F that's the flip side of friendship, right? Is that I will stay consistent because this is based on what you just said though, Jim, because I would stay consistent to the image that I have. My friends expected of me. Now I know I can change any time, but it's hard as a human being to shift away from the core group you developed. And so I knew I came to Australia for one reason was to the

Yeah, good point. Hmm. Yep. Hmm.

you know, experience and discover, but I had to move. I had to move the Perth because I didn't, I wanted to figure who I was. You know, I was 27 at the time. I needed to figure out without any previous bias. It's like moving to a new school, right? Or moving to a new country, you know, no one knows you. And you can kind of like, you're never gonna change fundamentally your core, but there's certain things you might change, you know, switch and you're,

Yeah. You can reinvent yourself, right? You can reinvent yourself and go, hit refresh and go, yeah.

Exactly, without any bias. Yep, yep, without any fear of doing so because no one knows the previous you, the version of you. And I made that conscious decision and that was one of the reasons, was because I felt that by staying there, some of my friends, I would, it's nothing to do with them, it was me would help myself back because of their expectation, which is so weird, right? But I made that switch and that's how, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that. Yeah, I get that. I think that makes sense. And it's not to, if you want to, see it's human nature that if you've got a group of friends and someone wants to change something about themselves and circumstances, there's gonna be a little bit of pullback from the group. You know, don't get me wrong, the hardest, I've got some great friendships, exceptionally strong friendships in Australia and to actually say, look guys, we're solid here. You know, this is fantastic, but I'm now moving to the other side of the world. You run the risk of challenging that friendship. But it's a case of saying, look, and it's nothing on not being happy with you. One of my greatest friends lives in Queensland. We graduated at the same time. We lived together going through chiropractic school. And like absolutely like a brother from another mother and lived in Queensland and literally is going great. I'm moving back to Melbourne now and it'd be great. We'll get to see each other after 30 years, other than just once or twice a year. It's like, hey, we're moving to the other side of the world. And he's like, okay, well, that's been the basis of our friendship anyway, so nothing changes. But our friendship's built on growth and development and improving yourself. And so that's one metric of it. But I get what you mean. It pulls on you, but then you've gotta go, I've gotta sometimes, they're the challenges that you've gotta step through and navigate in order to really live a life of intention and design on your terms.

That's right. And it's not like I know that they would never try to change me. That's not the point. It was more like I would hold myself back. It was really more me in those positions. And I think that's as wise. It does why it's so important for, you know, if you, you got to expose yourself to different friendship groups, you got to expose yourself to different people because you don't know what, who you can become if you don't actually elevate or put yourself in a position where you can be elevated by people that are wiser.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

smarter than you in certain circumstances. And if you constantly be the one who's smarter and wisest in the group, you're probably in the wrong group, right? So, you know, and this is why, you know, we're talking about the average. Hmm.

Yep. Yeah, yeah. That's a really good point. Yeah, that's a really good point. I want to highlight too, like what I loved about the weekend, the weekend was really, I don't know, it felt longer than a weekend, but you know, the time in Portugal with you and the crew, it was really, man, it felt like condensed. I think I got there early, it was an extra, it was three full days, but it felt like a week. What I really loved about it,

It was three days, three full days.

was it was a new group for me fundamentally. A lot of commonality, but so there was the excitement of learning from different people. And yet, like I'm like you too. I know you participate in other people's programs.

Hmm.

And that as a result grows you. And I do that regularly as well. You know, I guess we run our own programs. We do our own thing, but I still adopt the beginner's mindset. I'll regularly go in and plonk myself in the front seat of someone's workshop or seminar to learn to grow. And it's usually because I want to improve myself. And this is what I loved. I was like, I mean, these are some concepts, ideas, and people who are really awesome, who I didn't know up until this weekend, but they've expanded. my awareness. So that's how I opened up possibilities that had I just chosen to spend five days in Portugal with my great friends, as great as that would have been, it wouldn't have expanded me in the direction that I wanted to go in the entrepreneurial business space. I can go and have five days with my buddies doing that in another way, but if I'm intentionally trying to grow, I may sometimes have to separate my growth group from my buddy group. and be okay that they don't necessarily have to be all in one.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's one of the reasons why I, um, invited different people from different industries and different, uh, mindsets because they, they challenge you. You start to realize I met like, you know, I met so many people here so far since being here and you start to wonder like, what kind of business, what business are you in? Like that, like, it's like, what is that even, is that even possible? Like, and yeah, is that even a thing? Exactly. And it's amazing what people are doing out there. And when you dive deep into that, I'm like,

Yeah. Is that a thing? Is that even a thing? Yeah.

I don't understand. There are probably actually two or three people that you met on the weekend. They didn't tell me what, I kinda get what they do, but I could never explain what they do. Like it is so foreign to me because I've been in the health care space for so long, for 24 years, 25 years. What they do is like, I didn't even know that existed. And it's like.

Yeah. Yeah. BLEH Yep.

This is what we mean by being in a silo. When you're in a silo, like you think that your profession is the, or your thing, you know, healthcare is a big thing, but you think that that's the only important thing in the world, but then you go, oh no, these people are doing, there's some really amazing people doing some really amazing things in this world. And you go on, man, like, how did you even come up with that idea, you know? And you know, the businesses, the startups, the, you know, and people pay millions and millions of dollars for these businesses. And you're like, wow, like that's...

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

can't believe that. And so this is why I think that's really exciting to me. I still can't explain what they do. But it's like, that's how you grow. That's how you force yourself to realize and these are where the new ideas come from because you're trying to extract new ideas from outside your industry to help you make your industry better. And that's the that's the thing. I mean, that's what I kind of crave on all the time. It's like you just meet these

Thanks for watching! Yeah.

amazing people and just like, man, some smart people in the world. But like you said, you need to be in a position where, like, you know, I made one comment at the beginning of the conference or that's a retreat of saying, you know, I am, you know, I want to be almost like the dumbest person in this room because then I know I'm in the right room, right? And it takes a lot of ego, sorry, that going of ego to do that, to put yourself in a position because most of us would wanna, I've been in so many seminars and conferences, like there's so much peacocking.

Yeah. Yep.

of like, you know, I am the best and you know, it's like, no, that's the wrong room. Like this definitely don't want to be in that room. I want to be in a room where I'm surrounded by people that can elevate me in my life. And because there's so much out there that we just don't know.

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, we definitely achieved that. And it was that, and I think that was the real catalyst. I walked away thinking that, you know, and sometimes it's really interesting because the learnings don't always happen. Like the way you structured it was beautiful. We had information sessions for a portion of the day. Then we went off and there was an experience. I'm not basically disclosing anything that wasn't disclosed in socials. And then we went out and had dinner, so we celebrated. So. But some of the biggest learnings were when you weren't necessarily in class or discussion necessarily, you were perturbating and thinking about what was happening. And then you got to discuss something with someone along the way while you're, heck, axe throwing, you know, and you're throwing an axe and in between that, you're, you know, you're talking, you know, you're basically. you know, trying to psych each other out, but in there, there's wisdom and gold in these little nuggets that happen, and you don't even realize that you're absorbing it, and I always love that. And I'll tell you one thing that I know well too, when we were doing the axe throwing, Lawrence, this was when you catch yourself, right? So we were doing the axe throwing, right? And for everybody who wasn't there, Lawrence won one of the rounds, did exceptionally well, got pipped in. Oh, no, you lost one. Sorry, that was James, that's the one. Sorry, oh, you're misunderstood.

Mmm. Abbe. No, I didn't. I didn't win any in rounds. I didn't, I didn't know. I came very close, but I lost it by one point. Yeah.

Okay, sorry, that's right. James just came over the top. But what really, what I took out of that whole experience is like in the first round, I was hitting the board, but none of the arrows, none of the axes would stick. And I'm like, man, everybody's five, six, 10 points. I'm like, down, and I just couldn't work it out. And I had a whole lot of coaching from everybody do this, do that. And I was doing that. But one of the things I realized is that what I... have done a lot of my life quite often is being having a total presence. I sometimes not use my full force because I don't want to use the physicality. So I kind of held back a little bit and that wasn't serving me at all. And I think one of the, the women said, listen, I think you just need to put more power into it. I went, okay, I'll try that. I've tried everything else and boom, it's stuck and then it's stuck and then it's stuck. Um, but what I realized is, okay, where else in my world do I do that? Right. So.

Hmm. Yeah. Hmm

There's so many, when you do experiential learning, you can look at it and you go, hey, it's an isolated event, but then you go, no, where else does this apply? And so I tell you, this is what I mean by, it's set off so many tangential conversations and thoughts in my mind, because it's suddenly gone, by being around these people, it's expanded my consciousness and awareness. So that's what's been going on.

Well, that's, that's an amazing insight to have. And I, you know, one of the, the reason why I create these experiences, like games, like X throwing, I've always wanted to, I've been thinking about doing X running for like at least six years. And I just never found a venue to do it at. And when I found out in Lisbon, finally the place I've actually live in now actually had extra I'm like, I'm putting this on the agenda. I don't know. I don't care how I'm going to put it in somewhere. And yeah, even if it's

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Talk.

that's a lesson that you got out of. I mean, that's great because I think that games, when we participate in games and fun competition, it brings a different side of us, right? Like, I mean, it brings up all this, sometimes insecurity, sometimes confidence, sometimes focus. Like, man, when James was so focused that day, like, you know, he was so on and he didn't let anything rattle him.

Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Uh, and I was trying to rattle him cause I know like I'm trying to win this thing and I'm just going to trash talk as much as I can. And sure enough, he just stuck to his guns and just stayed focused and that, that, that's, that's, that's awesome, right? To be able to pull that off. Um, and Ronsley same thing. I don't know if anybody noticed, but yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And how good a life lesson is that? Yeah, how good a life lesson is that? Like when you're, same thing is like, hey, when you're focused on your objective and no matter what noise is going on outside of you, you're there to deliver and you just focus on it. So yeah, totally. There was fun in there, but that's actually experiential learning. It's a play. Sorry, I cut you off then for a moment there, but.

No, no, experiential learning is absolutely true. Well, cause really it was a three dog fight. It was me, Ronsley and James and Ronsley missed his last throw from memory. And he was out of the race and you can tell he was pissed internally. Um, and you know, and the third round. Yeah. He took great joy when I missed mine.

Yeah. Yeah. He took great joy when you missed one. He took great joy when you missed one.

And, uh, but then in his third round, he quietly, very quietly stayed focused. And he said, I am winning this thing. And he just kept on chipping away and he won. And he was like, man, you are pissed. You can. And I told him this afterwards. And, and that's the thing you start to see it goes, yeah, I'm. We all negative mega competitive internally. Right. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's like harnessing in the right way. Right. And the thing is, is that, you know, what I learned about these games is like, you start to realize.

Yeah.

it's a competition against yourself and how you act and you start picking an awareness of like how you, because how you show up in the game is how you show up in life. You just don't realize it. And by playing in the game, if you're, so what I really happy about with you, Jim, is that you made that awareness and made that connection while you're playing the game and going, holy crap, how am I doing that in real life? You know, and yeah, you, I mean, you're tall, you got a strong stature. Yeah. You probably do hold back at times because

Yep. Yep, yep. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm.

You probably spent most of your life trying to, like I know a lot of people who are tall, spend most of their life not trying not to be too tall, because you don't want to be overpowering, right? But at the end of the day, it's like, that's who you are, like what we need to be ashamed about, right? And I think that's a huge lesson. That's awesome, man. That's a really, really powerful lesson. I think that should shift you a lot, for sure.

Yes, yes. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was a big, that was a big one. So how about we close out with just some, I guess, some takeaways in terms of what we spoke about today, Lawrence, in terms of, you know, if someone was keen to change the trajectory of where they're going, and they really had to make some, I guess, some intentional decisions about where they would spend their time, their energy, and who they'd spend with, what were some things that they could really think about?

Yeah, you know, I've, um, I don't know who said this, but I know a friend of mine, Jason Kienhardt, uh, who's the head of mastermind talks who I belong to. And, and, you know, we get together every month, every year, sorry. And we meet these amazing people from all around the world, smart people. He's always has this thing around how, you know, there's moments, I don't want to tell his life story, but there's moments of time when he like lost everything. And he knew when he lost everything, what the most important thing to invest in was connections and friends. And he doubled down on that. When he didn't, he used his credit card to invest in people. And when you invest in people, which is what we're talking about today, is a powerful mechanism. Because a lot of times when we are in business, we focus so much on the business. But remember that connection is what makes that. Business can come and go. But if you built the right connections and right people, that can get you a long way, even when you're down. because knowing the right people and them having the feeling that you care about them is not, you know, that you creating value for their life in some way or another, I think long-term will always pay back in hundred folds. So I think my advice here from today, my takeaway is, is that you need to invest in people before you invest in business, because I think the business will take care of itself. Investing in people isn't about trying to buy friendship. Here, I'm talking about investing in people that... meaning like putting time and effort. It's not about money here, it's about value. And asking the question of how do I create value for others? And when you can create value for others, you will always be remembered and they will do things in return. They will help you, but it's the long game. It's not like you need immediate reciprocity. It's about knowing that they're there for you, investing in relationship because you care. And they... they genuinely, you genuinely care and they will know that feeling. And I think that will, is a reward in itself. And for me, investing in connections in my life has been amazing. They're there for you for help when you need it, guide you through the most difficult times and also being able to surround you, to lift you and elevate you a higher game in your personal life and also in business. So that's my takeaway from this conversation is like making sure you intentionally, intentionally invest.

Hmm.

and the people that surround yourself. And if they're not, if certain people in your group is either unconsciously, are you putting yourself in a position where they're unconsciously pulling you down or not helping you elevate, then it's time to maybe shift a little bit. Just remember, also too, I think that your friendship can change, your circles can change. Be okay with that. Doesn't mean you don't love them. It just means that you're evolving and you will always love. Like, it's like friends and family. It's like, I love my friends and family, but I don't have to surround myself with them all the time. Because let's face it, friends and family, like sort of your close friends, like your high school friends and family, don't necessarily are not always the ones that are supposed to be close to you, because they could be a negative factor rather than a positive factor. So be okay to evolve, be okay to be intentional and to choose your closest five people. And you can always still love everybody, but you don't have to surround yourself with them. That's my take away. What are yours?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, you've pretty much covered every one of the points that I was going to make. No, no, no, no, that was actually great. It's great because I think, um, now I was just sitting back with popcorn enjoying the show. I was actually just saying, I was just thinking to myself, yep, that's it, his intention. Um, and yeah, really just being true to yourself would probably be the only thing that I would say. And really, I think you, you summarized pretty much what I was going to say as well. So I don't think I need to repeat that. I think that was really good.

Sorry, Jim.

and representative of how I feel as well.

Well, if you, the listeners and the viewers, we might not know you personally, but if you're listening and watching this and you feel like this has been helpful, then make sure you listen to us every single week and we can be one of your closest friends to give you wisdom and advice. So let that sink in and make sure you, how you do that, you subscribe and comment and let us know how this has been affecting your life. But most importantly, like I said, please do share this with other people who you feel like. would get a lot of benefit out of this. And you never know on how this could change someone else's life and trajectory towards their success. So this is Wabi Sabi, this is me and Jim. I hope that you find us on our socials, on YouTube, on Facebook, or on Spotify, or whatever, however you listen to these podcasts and watch these videos, please share them and like them and comment, and we'll see you on the next episode.

Okay, bye everybody.