How To Sustain Life and Business

No, that's it. That's it.

Um, you know, Jim, it's, it's such an incredible time, like right now, as we entered, you know, different phases of our lives. And I just remember like, if you reflect back on our lives over the last, you know, five to six months, you know, when we've moved and changed and, you know, I'm sure it was the same thing for you. Like as you're gearing up towards this big move from Australia to Europe, um, there was always something to look forward to, wasn't there? And then when you move, there's always something to look forward to. And I think.

percent.

You know, like that's the discussion we wanted to have today is like, you know, when people have something to look forward to, whether it be in life or business, it's exciting because then you, that's why we set goals and it sort of keeps the momentum going, but there's always periods of winter, right? Winter is not the season, but the winter of our lives or in business where things kind of slow down and you kind of lose track of what you're doing. Why are you doing it? Well, let's face it. I was probably in winter for like two years in Australia. That's hence the move in the first place.

Yep. Yep. Yep, yep, and they're laid out, and they're laid out, yep.

Yeah, and I think, you know, it, you know, you mentioned about this topic that we want to talk about is sustainability. And thank God is not about, um, environmental, not because I don't care about the environment, let's be clear before I get canceled, it's more that I don't know anything too much about, you know, sustainability of environmental. And.

So the right term, Lawrence, is I'm not a subject matter expert on that. That just sounds so much more, subject matter expert.

Yes, yes, there you go. There you go. Thank you for rescuing me for that. I think it's so important because, you know, we are talking about life and business, and, you know, maintaining and to have the sustainability of having a great life, a great business, is such an important element that no one talks about. Everybody talks about the hack. How do I get 30 extra minutes of sleep? How do I?

That's all right.

breathe a little bit better? How do I do this in the shortest amount of time? How do I meditate in 30 seconds? How do I, you know, increase my, my, my profit in, you know, 90 days? Like everything's always short term, but no one talks about the long game sustainability. And that's why I love this topic.

Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was the big motivation, I guess, was the fact that both you and I, as you said, leading up to coming here, um, we were drawing on our reserves, you know, mentally, emotionally, physically, just getting everything ready to get here. And I remember you posted that that took a toll on you physically and your own wealth when you first hit Portugal. Right. And I know leading up to me being going away, I was in the same boat. So We're in a state that wasn't sustainable. We had to get things done. We had a timeline and rigid time wasn't that to work against. But when you fast pace it, you go, that's not a sustainable model moving forward. So really what we wanted to look at today was how do you maintain sustainability in your own self and your own health? How do you maintain sustainability in your family, your relationship? And then by extension, how do you maintain sustainability in your business? Because as you said, Winter will always come and winter metaphorically can be a period where right now there's high inflation, there's periods of high stress. How do you adapt to that? How do you get through that? How do you sustain yourself mind, body, spirit and financially in a time that puts a bit of compression and test on this? This is where we're going to deep dive and have a chat about today.

Well, it's interesting you mentioned that I like that contrast you gave there. It's like, I was talking about sustainability when things were going too slow and not happening, nothing was happening. You went from a sustainability of like when we go too fast, you know, when we're pushing, pushing, pushing, and that's not sustainable. So it's like, you know, that's a great topic to talk about, like too fast, too slow. No good somewhere in the middle, which we always say that right balance, that right homeostasis, that right dynamics is the right balance to go. And how do you maintain that without pushing yourself to, you know, that you're going to.

Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

you know, really push yourself so stressful that so stressed that you're, you know, you know, basically push yourself over the edge and your health deteriorates. Um, or when you're not pushing hard enough and there's no excitement and you know, there's just like boredom and then you have regret because life goes by you like that. And you realize like, man, what the hell did I do last 10 years? So it's such a great topic. Um, yeah, go ahead.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a massive one. How about we start, like I said, look, there's probably multiple entry points that we could start in there. Um, we could, you know, we start off our own life. You can start with your own, um, relationship, or it could be relationship, relationship with kids and or business. So which one do you want to start with first? Because I'm equally excited about going to all of them.

You know, I'm a firm believer that, you know, we need, I'm a firm believer with successful businesses, you need to have a successful life. First, if you don't have your life sorted, there's no point in having a successful business or it's very difficult to have a successful business because you always have that in the back of your mind or you don't have the physicality or the productivity or the mental state to be able to create a successful business. So I think let's start with life. What are some of the things that, let's talk about maybe the things that deter us from sustainability in our own personal lives, whether it be family, relationship or self. I'll let you take the lead and I'll follow.

Yeah, okay, sure. Well, I mean, look, we can always start with the basics, but in your background in health, we both will go to the pillars of health that are factors, you know, sleep, breast, what you eat, positive mental attitude, and the people you associate with, right? So there's probably a lot of people that have spoken about this in depth, and we'll definitely acknowledge those. But to me, they're the foundational principles upon which you need to focus on, right? So let's sort of look at those. I think... a really important thing for sustainability for me, one of the biggest learning points for me is understanding values and clarity of values and what's important to me. So I felt that quite often I sometimes did the right thing for the wrong reason or the wrong thing for the right reason because I wasn't really clear on myself, myself in terms of what was most important to me. And the moment that I understood my values, that to me was the difference that made a difference, which allowed me to sustainably work in a way knowing why that was important to me and at least giving to me. So to me, once we've got the foundational things that we talked about then to me understanding yourself who you are what you stand for is a really important thing in sustainability How do you feel about that one?

Yeah, I think know your why is the most one of the most important now, and I think we get a lot of questions from not a question, but a lot of times when our clients kind of called on us and, you know, ask us, so what would you do in this situation? And I always fall back on to always not always, but most of the time I always fall back on and goes, well, what's like where we want to go with what's, what's the goal here? Like, what are we trying to achieve here? Because that's partly the why, but also to the secondary part of that. And you need to. uh, encompass is also like, what are the values of the particular person? And, you know, as a coach is that I'm not trying to tell you what I think you should do because, you know, that's not my job. My job is to help you come to that decision. But the, how I help you come to that decision is number one, know where you're going and number two, what are the, what are the boundaries that you're willing. To kind of stay within and not go across those boundaries. And those are your values. Right. And so you need to have two things, right? Direction.

Yep. Yep.

which is your why your North star, whatever that is, maybe a goal, maybe a dream or vision. And then you have your values, which are like the bumpers that keep you aligned to becoming, maintaining the person that you are. You know, we're not going to lie, cheat and steal to get to our goal and vision, because those are the values that we uphold. And so that's important, I think, and everybody has different values. So, you know, once you know your client a little bit, you can probably guide and direct them, but really what it comes down to that.

Okay.

I know it seems simplistic, but that's really what it is. And when you make tough decisions to know yourself, with you, if you want to keep sustainability within yourself, it comes down to that. Are you able to stay within the decisions that help you guide, stay within those boundaries of your values, and then knowing where you're going and direction to help you get there? I think those are such important elements in Laneway. And that goes with your physicality, with yourself. And in also in your business, I think oftentimes we kind of go, you know, oh, like, I want to pursue this goal. Okay. Why? You know, I'm willing, someone's willing to work 50 hours a week to get there. I'm like, is that what you want? Do you want to get to the goal or do you want to get to the goal of like to say a million dollars, just put that out there, right? Do you want to get to a goal, a million dollars and be like dead tired and have no energy and be sick?

Hmph.

And, and not can, you know, can't function, or do you want to have a million dollars, uh, get to a million dollar business and, but while enjoying life and have strength and built, have great relationships, that's a two different goals here, right? And I think that people only state the one part, they don't state the rest of the part that's in their head. And I think that clarity of the values you just mentioned is so important to add to it, because now the, the, the path to get there is different because now you go, okay, I have to.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

do all ABC in the marketing perspective and business, but while maintaining the relationship with your family and life to attain that.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and totally agree with everything you've said there. And I guess this is kind of like, when you're living a life by design, quite often they're going to blend in. You don't come compartmentalize them and say, this is life. This is relationship. This is business to me. It's like all life. Right. And, and business was really an extension of who I was in a practical sense in terms of my engagement with people. I think that I, I loved what you were saying about the boundaries because I think that was something that it took me a little while to work out. initial stages because when I first started my career, you know, I have a capacity to just get so locked onto a goal that I exclude other things. And so I get so focused on it that particularly my first year of practice, I immersed myself so heavily into it that had fantastic outcomes in a practice growth and a financial set, in one metric, but I was miserable, my health suffered and I hardly ever got to see my wife for 10 hours. And so...

Mm-hmm.

To me, that was a really important consideration in terms of sustainability. So to me, sustainability was, and Tony Roberts talks about this, when you achieve a goal and you go, is this all there is? Well, I've got to that point. And what I realized quite harshly and luckily very early on was, you can't have a happy ending to an unhappy journey. And somewhere along the line, I had to build in fun, enjoyment, sustainability. so that I'm happily achieving as opposed to thinking that I'm going to get to this outcome and everything's going to be roses. And it wasn't, right? So I can see your score process going and a lot of us are going, oh, look, tag me, tag me because I've got so much to go in here.

Yeah. Yeah, well, it reminds me of this thought process and I'll bring in age as a factor here, right? So I think when we're younger and you know, I think there's this, we put it as what Dan Sullivan, like my coach from Sturgy coach once was said, like it's called rugged individualism, right? In your 20s, like, which means that you put everything on your shoulders and I'm just gonna freaking power through anything and just get to my goal. You don't care. And that is part of like that grind and that grit that you have in your 20s. Um, that is so powerful and that youth kind of wish I kind of, you know, you go back to them like, man, I wish I could have directed that energy a little bit better. Um, if, oh yeah, if only, if, yeah, well, I was in school for most of those years. I didn't graduate till 27. So, you know, it was all grind, uh, from that, but, you know, you kind of wish you took that, you know, harness that energy and potential energy, uh, and directed it to kinetic energy and useless in a more useful way, but it's always in hindsight.

If only I could have used that for good rather than able.

But the thing is, is as you get older, in your 30s, you start recognizing like, oh man, like I can't do this for long time. This is what caused sustainability. If there's a part, like when you switch around, oh, my estimation is probably around your 30, 33, when you start realizing like, man, this is a grind. And you know, people are like, oh, you gotta work hard. Yeah, in your 20s, you can grid it out. But there's a point in your life where you're going, ah, I don't know if this is sustainable. Like, I don't know if I wanna grind this out into my 30s, into my 40s.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And so this is where you start leveraging teams, leveraging people and help getting other people on board of your mission, right? And then in your 40s, you kind of work out the kinks in terms of what matters to you. I guess my point was, I think as we get older, maybe it's wisdom, maybe it's about different aspect of what we're trying to achieve, but I feel like what we end up doing is that 20 grind, the 20 year old grind is unsustainable for longterm.

Yeah.

Like I'm sure some people do it, but it's a very small percentage. I think people start realizing like, you start calculating, is this worth it? And I'm trying to, when you were talking, I'm trying to think like, why is that? And I don't know if you agree with me on this, but I feel like in your 20s, you feel like you can live forever. It's like, whatever, like, you know, I got so much life left. And this is why from a financial person, you know, as you would, I'm sure you see this all the time. It's like, I don't need to worry about retirement. I don't need to worry, because that's me.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm bullpen. I'm bullpen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't need to worry about saving and investing and stuff. Like, oh, yeah, I'm bullied, but I look at a lot of money. I can look at how much I can generate. I can worry about that later, right? And you push it down the road. It is what we do with health. This is what we do with money. We do what we do in investing. We just push it down the road because we'll get to it when we can. But when you start shifting in your 30s and especially when you, when we got into my 40s, when you go, ooh, time is limited, right? And I started realizing like body doesn't respond the way it used to. I can't just go eat like, you know, a couple of cheeseburgers and you know, sugar pump my body for a few days. I can't do that. Like literally went away for four days and it's like, oh, I'm feeling it. Like my body is feeling that, you know, whereas in my twenties or whatever, I can do that for weeks and not feel a thing. And I think that's, I think that mindset around like how much time we actually have.

Yeah, it's different.

change. So therefore all of a sudden, like your priorities start to change. And yeah, so I'd love to hear your comment on, on that thought, even just the youth and.

Yeah, yeah, look, definitely, definitely like, that was definitely my journey as well. In my 20s, it was like, indefatigable. It was like, man, I just, again, again, again, but I just keep going. And it's really funny because right now, both, both our boys, when I'm boys, they're men, they're 26 and 22, our sons are visiting and staying with us in the lead up to Christmas, which is really exciting and awesome. I just realized how much energy they've got. I thought they had it as little kids, they're in their 20s. And, you know, my oldest son and I working on this project together, I'm like, man, I'm cooked. And he's like, no, I'm only just getting started. I'm like, far out of it. I just didn't realize my limitations. Right. So that was one element of sustainability you have to, you have to come to terms with. Right. As you get older, you go, okay, I don't have that energy that I had to just bullet a gate thing. So you have to be a lot more discerning. You have to be a lot more. basically careful and sustainable of your energy, right? And I hear what you're saying about going away for a few days because coming, going to Portugal was awesome, coming with you and spending some time. It took me a few days to just get over all the fun and the excitement and all that kind of stuff, right? So I'm good, you did feed me well. I ate, you know, hand on heart, I ate things. It was amazing food, but I just went, you know what?

We did feed you well too.

And this was a sustainable part of it. I just went, look, there are some restrictions that I have when I'm on diet, right? I made the decision that I'm going to Portugal and I'm gonna have fun. I'm not gonna be silly. I'm not gonna be careless, but I'm gonna have fun. I'm not gonna be the bloke that says, no, I don't have, I'm like, I wanted to immerse myself in all the culture. And that was basically a considered opinion. And as a result of that, I went, okay, I'm feeling a little bit more tired afterwards. And that's cool. I wouldn't change a thing, right? But... I guess the catalyst for our conversation today really was about, we're recording this podcast episode today. You just back from London, spending a few times with your family. I'd love to talk to you to talk about that because that to me, when I see as an outsider looking in, I see what you're doing. You're creating memories with your kids that are just to sustain you and them and the relationship. And I'm flying off to Paris tomorrow. which is to celebrate my 30th wedding anniversary. And in a couple of weeks time, I'm also heading off to London with my kids, right? So this is not a travel guide and a travel show, but it highlights, I guess, for both of us how important our happiness and joy and the relationship and experiences are with our families that sustain us. So what do you think about what I've just said?

Yeah, so like, you know, one of the reasons why we decided to go to London last minute was for a couple reasons. So as some of you who've been listening for the show for a long time have, you know, noticed like I've been waiting for my house to be completed and built. And recently we found out that the chance of us moving before Christmas is more than likely not going to happen. And so that was quite a very debilitating, not debilitating, sorry, I can't say that word. It's more like it was very discouraging news. because we had hoped that we would get in by October and November came around and now December and, and things just didn't go our way. And so that's fine. So then you adapt, right? Like, I mean, you can either be a victim or you can kind of change your circumstances. So we moved Airbnbs again, you know, we've been in Airbnbs for at least seven months now, hoping to get into our house, but it's a, we haven't. And so hence, like, you know, most studio video podcasts gets better with time. we're actually going backwards. For those people watching the video, it's a I got a spotlight actually found a spotlight without that spotlight. This would be so dark right now. I'm glad I found a spotlight. You know, but what is what it is, right? We roll with the punches. This is about you know, our podcast is about sustainability. It's about long term thinking it's not about one show one episode don't have to make everything perfect. And I think this is we're rolling it. So this is why wabi sabi is called wabi sabi is because we're trying to like, you know, make use of what the life that we actually have to make it perfect. And so going back to that, we decided going, you know what, we had a public holiday on Thursday, we were just gonna go and we're just gonna go, the kids are gonna miss only a half a day of school or a day and a half of school, we're just gonna go surprise them and like, let's go to London to see the Christmas lights, experience that Christmas that we never had in Australia, never experienced that light festival and all that stuff. So that's what we did. And we went there and you're absolutely right. Like as I got older and sorry to go back to this age thing, but to me, like it's, It's we went from, you know, your 30s are usually accumulating, trying to get more stuff, you know, watches and cars and all that stuff. And then, you know, 40s, you realize I'm like, none of that really matters. Once you got everything, like everything you once you got everything you want, it doesn't really matter much anymore. It's more like, oh, but you know what you can't take away? You can you can never take away my experiences, you know, the experiences in my life. And I recognize us really early on, probably about, you know, eight, 10 years ago. And and that's that's the thing. And I look back at all the.

Yeah.

the memories from the kids and I always asked them like, what do you remember from this trip or this trip? It was always the spontaneous moments when we did something. It was never about this planned, you know, trip. If you ever asked them about what did you, how was the trip from Europe from four years ago? They would be like, it wasn't like, oh we went to blah blah. It was like, oh that ice cream that you had or you know that that that you know, it was just this pizza that we had. It was like something that they experienced not you know, going to a museum or anything like that. It was just, it was always something in their memory. And it was like that really reinforces the idea that spontaneous experiences matter more than planned experience. We go to Disneyland. If I said, do you remember Disney? They won't remember a single thing from Disney except for maybe like the one time we went down to the secret tunnel, you know, or something like that. Like that's what they'll remember, not the Disney, you know, plan. So all that stuff that we waste a lot of money and time and energy on, isn't the thing that

Yeah, yeah.

they will remember what they will remember with mom and dad, with the family is those moments. Um, I still remember this like this, honestly, I still remember this to this day with my daughter was probably maybe five years old, six years old. And we went to Carmel and, uh, we stayed at, um, Clint Eastwood's, um, hotel lodge up in Carmel and beautiful mountain, you know, it was an old like place. It wasn't really nice. That wasn't that.

Okay.

spectacular thing, but it was like a ranch. And I decided to take my daughter, I go, let's go to the bar. And it was this outdoor bar, we overlooking like these mountain ranges and ordered an orange juice. And that is what she remembered for years. I guarantee she still remembers that day. We ordered, dad took me out to get some orange juice, you know, at the cafe in this hotel. And she will always remember that. And that was like, you know, over 11 years ago. And like, that's the moments of sustainability that because talk about sustainability of your family, those memories are going to sink in at a deep level at some point. And those are the things that you remember about your parents. I'm sure about our lives and our childhood mold. That's what we're trying to create. And that's, you know, I think that I encourage everybody from a sustainability, from a relationship. Like I'm, I'm so excited to hear your journey that your 20 year old kids or, you know, boys men.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

are still wanting to hang out with dad and mom. Like that is amazing, right? And I wish that, I want that for my family in 10 years time. And I hope that, you know, that's something to look forward to. So I'd love for you to describe that.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, look, it is, it's actually really interesting because when I sit back and reflect, I sit in gratitude because, you know, I'm celebrating 30 years of marriage to a person who I still love and we are still in love very much so and who have, we've supported each other through the highs and lows. So that's what I mean by sustainability because it's not always rosy. There are going to be challenges. There are going to be hard times. And I think the sustainability part of it was we were always committed to each other and to our vision. And we always had, we were committed hook, line and single to our kids. And so, but not at the, at the expense or the detriment of us as well. So we fundamentally always still nurtured that and sustained the relationship. So That was always a part of it. So they're sustaining the relationship. I was also very clear that I couldn't expect that, once my kids were 18, I was gonna parachute into that and have this great relationship with them. If I didn't plant the seeds early on. So when I traced back to their childhood years, but my wife, the tenant, she was with them, particularly in the formative ages, at some stage more than I was. And yet when I realized that was a really critical time for us, we took out. our football team memberships to go every week so we could spend time together figuring that when you've got 14 year old boys who sometimes want to move away, at least they'll talk to you about sport. I'll tell you if they'll talk about football. So we kept the conversation and dialogue going. So that was always really important process and we always took an interest in the things that they did. You know, so, the Lieutenant jokingly said, look, she was fluent and articulated so many of the boys' interests. not because it was of interest to her, but it was interest to them. And so the moment that she had an understanding of their world, that commonality, we had a bond. So for me, sustainability was not isolating and living separations. It was actually finding ways to maintain continuity in the relationship we give and take. And that's that's been part how we've gone about that.

You know, that's really beautiful, man. You know, and, cause I want to commend you guys, you know, you and Bettina do that, doing that because, you know, I gotta admit, like I'll be the voice for people, listeners. That's really, really hard to do. You know, taking an interest in your kids. I mean, of course, you know, society tells us that we should, right? And I get that, but I'm just acknowledging the fact on how hard it actually is to be fully committed to what your kid is interested in. whatever they're interested in at that moment in time. Because as adults, you know, I mean, I gotta be honest, like being interested in Pokemon is really hard, right? Do you know what I mean? It's like, you know, you got other things to be, because especially in this world that we live in, the social media world, and we got so many things that we're interested in that we can't even spend enough time to do our own interests, and then to sacrifice that, and then to be interested in something that you have no interest in whatsoever, most of the time.

Yep. Yep.

to get and also be genuinely intentionally, you know, put that energy forward to play the long game, right? So that your sons or daughters can spend time with you 10 years from now. It's like, it's not like that immediate feedback. It's so like, I, you know, I'm just saying like how amazing that is, you know, I want to, you know, congratulate you on creating that life. And, and, and I think that it, we, but it has to be, it was intentional and it's, it's, it's difficult.

Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

And, but yet, you know, it's so important.

Yeah. You know what, Lawrence, thank you. That means a lot. You know, when I'm hearing someone say that, I know it, I internally reference so much, but when I sometimes hear someone go, hey man, you have this incredible situation, it just drops in at another level as well. So thank you for that. It means a lot to me. I think taking an interest in our kids from the sustainability, that was really important to me. In terms of values, I didn't have that relationship with my dad, right? So for me, that's- probably the key of why I made that a priority. I wanted to break the cycle and go, I get it, right? I totally get it. And because my dad had to work exceptionally hard because of circumstances, and I worked hard, but I got to a point where I had choice. And my choice was, I'm gonna actually spend time with my kids. I don't have to do that, I can, and I can keep so driven on this vision, but I'm gonna run the risk of losing my boy, my kids, and all my relationships. So to me, that was a really big. shift. So yes, that was that was the process in there that we went through. A really big thing that we did, I think that gave us a lot of street cred with our kids was that we always had, I guess, a rule of being transparent and honest with each other. And so they knew that it was never going to be a top-down approach. Yes, there were going to be times that you were going to be the parent and you had to enforce boundaries and rules, but we gave them permission to call us out if they felt that we were out of integrity. So we were saying, hey, you need to do this, this and this. And yet we weren't doing that. They were empowered to speak up and challenge that. Now, work's great in trusting the relationship. Doesn't always work well in school when your kid calls out the teacher for incongruency. So that's the challenges that brought up for us, where our kids were calling out the teachers and Jim would pretend to have to go and have a chat with the principal about. why they don't have a respect for authority. They did, but they just in their world, they had faith and trust to speak up. That's it. That's it. So it's basically double edged, right? So you've got to give and take. And we knew that for us, we had a vision of the adults that we wanted our sons to have in the relationship we wanted, pretty much like you said about having a goal, who were really clear from the outset, and we did whatever it took.

The autonomy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

to ensure that it was protected, it was cherished, it was on it, and it was a style.

Yeah, I mean, most sustainability of goals, it's hard. It's hard work. And I think we want to put some acknowledgement on that. It's like, it's not easy. It's not meant to be easy. Um, you know, all of us have goals. We all have ambitions. We all have, you know, desires of the life we want to create, but you gotta have the sustainability and a willpower and drive to be able to make sure that you do whatever it takes to get there, you know, within the boundaries of your values, as we spoke earlier. And I think that, you know, I think that this, because of the

Yeah.

the technological world that we live in, everything's so fast paced, we expect things to happen a lot faster than it actually does. And we have lost patience, I find, and hence we lost the sustainability of that because we want things done now. I see a lot of people want their business to be successful like yesterday, and it doesn't work that way. See, the problem is we not logically know, we logically know that.

Mm-hmm.

Hey, when patients come in, that takes time to heal. When you ask for help for business, it's gonna take time. You wanna change your culture in your business, it takes time. You wanna get better at a sport, it takes time. You wanna learn a language, it takes a lot of time. You know, and you want anything done in Europe? Yeah, you want anything done in Europe? That takes years. And so like, but you have to have that.

It takes a lot of time, every day, practicing, still feeling like a glove. It takes time. It takes time.

resiliency, you have to have that patience to really, you know, hold true to the true north of what you're trying to achieve. Be patient and then be adaptable. But I just wanna acknowledge the fact that, you know, sustainability is not easy. And I think that if you don't, and this is why going back to our why, if you don't know your why, you're gonna lose hope, you're gonna lose passion, you're gonna lose purpose, you're gonna lose that drive, and you probably get steered off course, forgetting like why you're doing this in the first place.

I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it.

So I think knowing your why and having that clarity right from the beginning is gonna be helpful in the long run to do that. And I think that's such an important role for us to kind of making sure that we're constantly chipping away at what we're trying to achieve. And re-looking at that life by design of in terms of what life that you want to constantly reevaluate and making sure that you still want that. Because five years down the road, it might be something different.

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, there are quite often going to be events or milestones that shift your perspective, shift how you see the world, particularly from life. We'll definitely talk about business in the moment. But in terms of life, there are sometimes there's a health challenge, there's sometimes there's a relationship challenge, sometimes there's something that blindside you didn't see coming that makes you sit up and take notice, right? And that will be the priority. And then you go, I can't keep doing this this way. I don't want to do this this way. For me, I think the two things, the biggest learnings I had to get for myself was emotional regulation in terms of looking at this and going, okay, I need to cycle through my impatience and frustration. They're my life lessons, patience. And so I've had to work through that. So that was a sustainable model because if I didn't, that would constantly put me in a stress state, a fright flight state. which I knew wasn't healthy for me. So I really had to do a lot of work on self to be able to get that. And I think a really big epiphany for me came once where we were probably in our thirties, particularly when we were on the accumulation stage, as you said, we'd had a milestone, we'd bought investment property and we bought another one. And I didn't celebrate. I didn't celebrate, you know, and I just went great, done, next. And

Mm.

I remember with Tina at the time going, hey, listen here, buddy, we didn't have a chat because achieving for achieving sake is not sustainable. This can't keep going on. There has to be a purpose and a reason for this. And we've got to celebrate this and find out why we're doing it. Otherwise, this is not fun. And I had to really realize that because, so to me, sustainability was building in fun, was realizing that I don't want to get to my 80s. have stockpiled everything devoid of experiences when I can't get out there and do those things. So right now it was about sustainably looking after things as Aristotle says, plan for tomorrow and live for today. And there was an element of enjoy the journey, enjoy the process, and still be mindful of the long game. But you've got to build in fun, dude, because if you don't, what's the point?

You're absolutely right. That's something that I, you know, it's funny because I'm exactly the same boat. I don't spend a lot of time having fun, especially when I was younger. It was more about achieving and, you know, and just the sense of achievement was enough for me. It was never about the money or anything. It's like I just, you know, got the satisfaction of achieving certain things, but I never spend enough time having fun. Like, you know, when people ask me like, what's your hobby? I don't have one. I hate that question because I don't freaking have one, you know, like... Prosfit was probably my hobby for the last eight years, you know, like, and that's not really a hobby because it wasn't like I did it, you know, because I did it because I want to get fit. Like I didn't have a hobby and really kind of came down to him like, oh, well, traveling was my hobby in a way. I traveled a lot and that was my fun side, you know, but I didn't have a, you know, particular hobby per se. I don't think that's, I don't think that's wrong. I just, I'm just, you know, going through my process of, of how I identify things, but I realized that. A lot of my things were always geared towards work in my thirties and even actually in my forties, it was always towards, it's had to be singular, not singular focus, but like singular directional, which means like it was always something to finding ways of growing a business and growing and getting better, not that that was running wrong with that actually. My, my hobbies were actually just listening to podcasts and developing myself and getting better each time, which I don't regret, but there was not. Um, there are moments where I do question, like, was I actually having fun and enjoyment? And. I think it's within the last sort of five to 10 years where I've been going, no, like I am going to take up experiences and, and just making a decision on doing things that kind of scare me and also being having enjoyment that I enjoy, not what Karen wants me to do or expects me to do or what other people expect. I I'm going to do this because I get enjoyment and I don't need to explain myself. I don't need to justify my decision.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, I just want to do certain things for me. And I think that's really hard for people to kind of, it took me a long time. Like took me probably 40 somewhat years to kind of come to this conclusion. Like I don't need, need permission per se, um, from anybody to justify that. And like one of the example was, you know, we were in Bali, um, and my team, the 14 San Francisco 49ers made it to the Superbowl in 2020. And. And I was like, Oh, like, I was just gonna like wouldn't be awesome if I actually, you know, went to the Super Bowl. Well, we're like literally in Bali. And in a way, like, let's face it, we do have to ask permission from our wives when we do make decisions like that. So I just kind of happened to like, just said it out loud. And she goes, Well, what's stopping you? And as soon as she said that, like that, it was instant confirmation that I, she gave me a slight opening. Because usually it's an immediate no, that's all I needed. I'm like, here's the tickets. I'm like, that's expensive.

I understand. Yeah. That's all you need.

but it's like a once in a lifetime and got the tickets and boom, like I flew from Bali to Bali to Sydney, got to my home, change clothes, got right back to the airport, flew to where did we go? Miami, which was like 28 hours or something. And then went to the Superbowl and uh, it was a lifetime experience. I mean, I wish they'd take a freaking one. That would have been even sweeter and nice. Stopping, but, um, still breaks my heart. Still haven't watched that game live a repeat just cause I can't bear to watch it again.

Yeah. Yeah. Hahahaha

But anyways, it's the whole experience, but that was all for me. My wife, she didn't allow me, but she knew that was important to me. And I don't need to justify that to anybody. People would say, well, that was a waste of money. Who cares? That's my thing, right? And some people it's hanging out in a pub and drinking with their friends every week or doing whatever. Like you don't need to justify to me, I don't care. What I'm saying, there's no judgment, but your element of fun is adding that element of experience of...

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

making sure that you're doing something that could be for selfish reasons, but you don't need to learn to justify. I think that's sustainability for life. And that's my opinion on making sure that you are having fun because that's what makes you whole, but it may not be what makes your partner happy. Or like, you know, in terms of like, that's not what they're interested in. Like, you know, and that's okay too. Like it's finding that balance between the two, as long as it doesn't push too much of the boundaries that are sacrificed.

Yeah.

your relationship, I think certain things are meant to be somewhat selfish. I don't know if you agree with me on that or not.

Yeah, I think what I'm taking out of that is there are certain things that sustain you that really make your heart sing and fuel your soul. And they're not always going to be rational, they're not always going to be logical, you just know that you know that you know that, hey, this is really cool, this is really important to me and you do them. And it fuels you. Like we're heading off to watch Hamilton, the play in London in three weeks. And yeah, it's a lot of money. why am I doing everything that I do? It's to have these wonderful experiences with my family that when I'm in my late phases of my life when I can't do this anymore, I can look back and then go, what a great time I had. To me, that's the legacy, that's the joy, they're the golden moments that I wanna invest in that no one could take away from me. And so to me, that's really important.

Yeah, like that's a fundamental question, right? It's like, what are we doing all this? Like, what are we working for? Right? And it's like, everybody's all we're working for money. Okay, well, what kind of money? You know, you have a number. Okay, why? Like to do what? You know, it's like, so I can enjoy life. Okay, when? Right? And it's like, and there's a great book, I think it's called Die With Nothing. I'll have to check that that's the right thing. And it talks about like, you know, everybody has, we've been on this society, you know, to train ourselves to

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

save for retirement, like invest and work, work, work hard. And then you have all your money when you retire so you can enjoy life. But failing to forget that most of us, I'm not saying, you know, all of us, but most of us don't take care of our health so that by the time we actually retire, you can't actually go do the things that you actually thought you wanted to do. Like, you know, if you can imagine, like if you never took care of your health, you never, you know, you ate, didn't eat well, didn't take care of your health, you're not parachuting at 65, right? You're not like climbing Mount Everest 65. You know, I'm not like, you know, if you didn't do, didn't sustainability for your health, you're not gonna be do those things. So why not, if you think about like our, you know, our objective, which is to enjoy life, that's what we're kind of make money for anyway. So be happy, then like why wait to the end and why not create enjoyment and experiences as you mentioned now, because you know, like it, like I look at, there's a great,

Yeah.

entrepreneur colleague, he you know, term his business is called 18 summers. And Jim Shields is his name. And 18 summers, think about that. That's basically the amount of time you have with your kids 18 summers, when you put it in that timeframe. Now you have more because you worked hard and created more time. But for most of us, it's 18 summers and you go, Holy crap, that's not a lot of time.

Thank you.

You know, when you think about the time, because they in school most of the time and the summertime is the, when you get to have a chance with them, 18 summers, you know, you waste it and blink of an eye. We all know this as parents, like they grow up so fast and they're, you know, they're growing up in front of our, my eyes and it's, you know, you don't get that time back and that's the thing that, you know, that's why you're doing all those things now is create those experience and once in a lifetime things like going to the Superbowl with my team is playing.

No. So, I'm going to go ahead and start the video. So, I'm going to go ahead and start the video. So, I'm going to go ahead and start the video. So, I'm going to go ahead and start the video. So, I'm going to go ahead and start the video. So, I'm going to go ahead and start the video. So, I'm going to go ahead and start the video. So, I'm going to go ahead and start the video.

I don't know when like the last time they made it, you know, it doesn't happen very often, right in your lifetime that you can actually have the time, affordability and the, you know, the, the flexibility to go do something like that. It's not, you know, when I calculate all of that, I'm like, no hell I'm going. If I got permission to go, I'm going. Um, and I think those are the moments like, you know, when are you going to have all the four, you know, four members of your family, you know, when they're all in the twenties and living all different parts of the world to be in one spot to go see Hamilton, like Great show, by the way, highly recommended. And those are such a memorable thing that it's so powerful, and that's what you can remember. And I encourage everybody to really think about the sustainable, but what lifts you, what lights you up is gonna be the things and experience that you take along the way, because we can't take any of this stuff anyways. You can't take money with you, we know when we're passed on. So.

Yeah. Yeah. So looking forward to it.

learn to enjoy it like my don't blow it right and all Jim's financial things going to come into play. Don't don't blow it but at the same time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I actually, I tend man. I, yeah, I totally agree with you. What I'm basically saying is it let's be totally transparent here. Both of us are very driven. I've been very successful in what we do in one metric and that has allowed us the opportunity to have experiences, a particular life and a lifestyle, which that has rewarded. What we're talking about is we're not saying they're mutually exclusive. We're not saying you don't work and you know, as you said, you're being, you're not being careful with your money. We're basically saying, you know what, life, we have one life, you know, depending on what your beliefs are, one life. And it's about sustainability is about enjoying the process and having great things, looking after yourself. Because even the concept funny, you might talk about it. This concept of retirement is a hazy area as well. Because when people are doing things that they love doing and they sustain, they technically don't retire, right? You've got people in their 80s who are still productive, doing great things, who have found a way to balance contribution, life, work, travel, everything, nurturing. So it's a model, sustainable model of life, really. So that's why I don't want to compartmentalize it. What you and I are talking about is through our own learnings.

Yes.

that if you just focus on one specific metric and one metric only, it's gonna be the exclusion of others. And you might get to it where you go, you might not, you might go, hey, I've lived a totally fulfilled life. Yet what we're saying is that experience has taught us that just focusing on one metric and one metric alone robs us of the potential experiences around there. So if you structure things in such a way that you can happily achieve those things. It creates a wonderful rich life, right? And that's really what we're talking about. So you talked about the finance side of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was gonna say you talked about the finance side of it. We can transition into the business side of it as well too, in terms of what a rich life would look like. So do you wanna talk about from a business, how we build sustainability in business to be able to make that happen?

and the rich life. Yeah, go ahead, finance. Sure, I just want to make the one comment, which is that the rich life is defined by you guys. It's not defined by any of us. I'm only using my examples of all those things that I've done or doing, or it's more like that's what matters to me. But what I'm saying is that you can define whatever that is. For some of my friends, it's like buying a McLaren or buying a Ferrari, whatever. If that throws you or that fulfills you, awesome, I encourage that. you know, how do we attain that? Well, we need that. We need to run a business, a successful business to kind of create that lifestyle. And for me, like my whole thing is like, you know, from my business is it's about helping people get, build profitable businesses and freedom practices, right? Because for me, it's those two things. We earn a profit, not for money's sake, but earning a profit so you can use that profit to drive your mission, right? And I think that's important because I think most of our, you know, my, you know, clients are. you know, driven by a purpose. And you know, it's relevant what those purposes because it could be very personal. It doesn't really matter to me as long as you, but you need to create a profit so that you can drive that mission. And more importantly, everybody wants to have freedom and freedom, what I mean by this time, you know, and it's like, we want to work hard so that we can, you know, create that leverage so that we can actually go in and use that leverage of profit to enjoy the life and create that life that we want. I think sustainability, but we only can do that if you have a sustainable business. And that's just how the transition I want to make. So it's a sustainable business. I think requires to, for you, number one, have a long game. Um, I think it's really important to know like what the long game is, but here's the challenge, I think that's what I wanted to mention earlier, which is we often kind of make goals and of what we're trying to achieve in the perfect environment and we never think about or add in the environment that, you know, there's all these black swan events that actually does that, that happens. Now I know no one could predict it. COVID.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

No one could have predicted a whole bunch of things. But no one could predict a whole bunch of things either. Like, sorry. The amount of times, I hate this term by the way, like the amount of times when the government, you know, says, oh, this is this flood is the one in 100, one in 100 year flood. It's like, okay, that was last year. And Nick this year is like, no, no, this is the one in 100 flood again. And that happens like three times in a row. It's like drives me crazy to like.

Yeah. Come on, man. Yeah. Yeah.

you know, because and those are the moments, it's not the flood or the, but these moments, financial ups and downs, these termals, inflations, recessions, all this stuff, like these things, there's always gonna be something that's happening. If we constantly built our goals and business, I think sustainability isn't about building a business in the perfect environment when everything's in a vacuum, when everything's working perfectly. No, no, no, when you have the perfect team, when you have the perfect, you know, environment and you know, all these people, you know, non inflationary environment, all that stuff. Sure, you can have the perfect goal, but you need to, I think what's smarter is build a goal in unsustainable market when things are constantly challenging and constantly changing. That is way better because you're more prepared to be sustainable because you're more adaptable. Comment on that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally agree with you. I think that's the reality is business is like can be brutal, right? It's not linear. There are always factors outside of your control that you can't anticipate. You can plan for contingencies, but sometimes the contingencies go outside the double white lines and you didn't even expect those to happen. So I think that's an important consideration. I think there's a couple of things in sustainability in business, I think is really important. Number one is obviously, you're you know, we talked about health. So we talked about your happiness in the business and your sustainability. So if you're not finding joy in what you're doing, you're not really going to be either you're going to be in it and hate every second of it or you're going to go look, I'm out or you're going to be miserable in there. And you're going to be grumpy to all those people around you. So I don't think that's sustainable for you and your team. So that's one thing. Sustainability in terms of your clients are also another important consideration too, because you may be very dependent on one client. And as a result of that, you lose that one client, your business has gone. So I think a very good sustainable business practice is always to ensure that you. have multiple customers and multiple basically people that you can do business with so that you don't, you're not totally dependent on one specific person. I think that's a really important consideration in fact. And the last thing that I would say really from a financial buffer point of view is having this sustainability of creating buffers in your business to absorb these once in a hundred year events or one in a. consecutive 100 year events that you talked about. I remember when we were practicing in the country that the farmers really had this exceptionally well because they would have, you know, they'd have this bumper year of crop and it'd be like five times their normal size. And some farmers would go out there and buy the new tractor, the new header, a whole lot of machine. And then the next year and the year after the year after they've been drafted, they'll have no income. So financial management was really, really important. to say, okay, we've got a buffer here, we've got a bumper here this year, awesome, don't bet everything on it or don't spend it all, just absorb the highs and low points by doing that and that's sustained farmers to be able to handle some pretty lame years. So there's some metrics, key metrics within the business side of it for me as well.

It's funny. Um, I had a friend who Jason Gaynard, who just posted something similar to this on this concept today on Facebook. And he said that, you know, his 10 year business cycle, um, you know, I don't know if it's a thought process or it was just interesting to read it. It was like, you know, in any 10 year cycle, you have two great years, six good years and two really bad years. And it's kind of true, right? Like if you think about that, like there's always these moments of And it depends on, you know, the cycle of where you're at in your business. Everybody's always at a different place. Not everybody kind of goes down at the same time. And I think that that's pretty speaks volume to what you just said, right? Like you have one great year or two great years, like, all right, I'm on top of the world. And I've learned that from an investing point of view, like those, I just started investing and in the last two years were freaking amazing. And then you, now you've seen the downside and like, okay, like I did not expect that. So I'm learning emotionally and also like from, from, from

Yeah. Yeah.

from the perspective, I'm like, okay, like how do I manage myself and my emotions during the downslide? And I think that's such an important element to think about is like, you know, you mentioned about emotion resiliency earlier, I think, and it's about like, how do you manage your emotions when things are peaking really well, but also how do you manage the upswing, the downswing, and also at the bottom? Like, how do you manage those emotions? Because if your emotions are predicated by

Yeah.

the ups and down of your environment versus having an emotion state like this while this is going on around you. I think that's the critical element. Not to, you know, when things I would, the Demartini talks about this, right? When things are high, you got to maintain a balance and the things are low, you maintain a balance. And that's how, you know, you're, you're, you're instead of like this hopper bipolar swing, you kind of swing in, in middle of the middle there. I think that's a better way of looking at things.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was always taught that the nervous system, your body can handle plus and minus 10% either way before you start going into alarm reaction mode. So if things go 10% greater than you normally are, whether it's a metric, and it's actually really interesting is that the long-term statistics of shares or properties is about 10% per year over the long term. So it's really interesting. So they basically taught that, you know, it's basically fear and greed of what drive a lot of the market. and fundamentally plus or minus 10% before people start reacting. And that's really what I come to understand. And you talk to anybody who's particularly a professional trader, as a few of my clients are. They tell you that they have to dissociate from emotion to be able to make logical decisions. So have a trading plan that they have to stick to rigidly to get themselves out of the way to allow that process to work. So. You're 100% correct. Like if you, if you riding your emotions and the ups and downs of investing cycle, you're and you're harped on your sleeve, it's going to be a really difficult journey and I've definitely journeyed with that and I realized there's certain elements that I go that suits my risk profile that doesn't I'm excited by that, but you know, so you get to learn that over time from a sustainability point of view and clearly from the investment point of view, if you are losing sleep. and you can't sleep because of that, that's not sustainable. Not sustainable in your decisions, because you're gonna make reactive decisions, but also not sustainable in your health. And you're by extension, you're gonna be really grumpy to the people around you as well.

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that. And that goes with the business as well. Like you make decisions that, you know, cause your business to lose sleep over your business decision. That's the same thing. You know, you, you act and react. And you got to think about, you know, when you want to, if you want to create sustainability in your business, you have to think long term, you have to project what the future is going to hold. Now, let's be very clear. No one has a crystal ball. No one can see the future. No one can. And it's not really wise to follow. You know, people's prediction of the future, but you do have to kind of read between the lines and understand your, your, your, your business and your, you know, the target audience that you're going through in the business environment. You need to understand those environments so that you can actually learn to kind of just stay ahead of the curve. Right. And I don't surf, but imagine like surfing. It's like you, you got to ride the wave and then how you ride the wave. He's got to just be in front of it. Right. You, you don't have to be like totally, you know, way off.

Yep.

in front, you just need to be just in front of it. I think that's, you gotta be up to date in your knowledge of the environment around you, your business cycles, where you're at, and just staying on top of the materials that surround yourself to understand what is happening so you can ride the wave along the way, no matter how choppy the water is get. And you gotta know that, hey, there's no waves there, I'm gonna have to paddle a little harder, you know, cause there's no, you know, momentum going there. So you have to create your own potential energy. Um, to, to convert that into kinetic energy. I think those are all the things that has to be there in any environment. If you don't, um, that's what, you know, creates the business collapse. And the name of the game of business is to make sure you get to play tomorrow. Right. So, you know, if you're not, if you can't, if you can't play tomorrow, then like. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, and, and, and, you know, the one of the reasons why I loved about sport, you know, especially like, you know, dynasties and.

Yeah, tell you, that's exactly right. You've got to stay in the game. You've got to stay in the game for as long as you can. Yeah.

legacy, it's like, it's so it's basically the same as life, right? Like, you know, when when when, you know, let's face it, in any particular sport, whether it be football, basketball, baseball, like you have all these teams, like 30 somewhat teens vying for one trophy at the end of the year, okay, only one teams between victorious and everybody else is a loser. But the reality is like, it doesn't, you know, you might have one bad year, but doesn't mean that you, you know, just give up, right? Like, that's what I love about franchises, like you, you, every great dynasty of any sports team will make it to the top, maybe once, once in a while, or maybe two years in a row or three years in a row. But very rarely does one team dominate like for decades and decades because there's always this up and down swing. They're always going to have these moments. And I think that's what happens in business as well. You might have one, two great years, but then you're going to, there's going to be some problems. People expect to be paid more or you lose, you know, high quality staff. it's gonna come down a bit. Like it's really hard to maintain this trajectory of growth all the time. And you gotta think about the long game and you gotta balance out that 10%, what you said, the plus and minus, but recognizing as long as the overall trend is going up, that's over a long period of time, then I think you're doing well with sustainability because that's the name of the game. Stay in the game so you can play the game.

Yeah, I love it. So I wish you'd start winding up today, Lawrence. I think the key things that I have taken out of this discussion as well for me is that the key for sustainability is equal. You know, has to start with self in terms of looking after yourself, your health, your vitality, what's important to you, um, your relationships and why you're doing what you're doing. So you've got that joy metric. And then when we're applying it to business, it's the extension of it is having some principles that govern good sustainability in business in, to ensure that you design a life and a business that can support you and your vision. So that would be my take. out of today. What about for you as we close out?

It's very similar. I think what you apply in your life is basically the same as your business. So one thing we never kind of got to is like, you know, understanding your business trajectory of where you're going to go. And knowing where it's supposed to give you like what the outcome you're actually business supposed to give you. And then leveraging that and then getting and also getting people like you know, sustainability, we talked about is finding the right team members surround like no different than in life, right? The most important person that you will have in your life. that you probably spend the most time, isn't your parents, isn't your friends, is probably your significant other. That choice you made 30 years ago, Jim, the choice I made 20-something years ago, that choice makes all the difference in the trajectory of our life because that person is gonna be there to help sustainability, that relationship sustainability is going to dictate a lot of directional decisions that we would have made along our way that influences our whole entire life in business. Well, the same thing with business. Like if you don't choose and hire the right people to surround yourself with, to help you elevate your mission, to get you to where you wanna go, that's gonna be very challenging, just have a sustainable business. And so I think the same, like whatever we said about life applies directly into business because business is about relationships, you know, with your clients, with your staff, and also with your suppliers and providing that service. I think that's the number one thing. And when you can do that, when you can do both of those well.

Thank you.

I think you have end up with a very, very happy life.

Yeah, great, great. Thanks, Lawrence. Awesome, have fun, bye.

So guys, I hope you guys enjoyed that. Yeah, I enjoyed that conversation and hope you guys did too. And most importantly, please share this episode with other people who might need to hear this because I think it's such an important discussion and that's what the name of the game is really to live a great life and a long life if we can. And so how do you do that? Well, this is described over this whole entire podcast. So please check us out on Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, podcast channels, or whatever you get this and watch this. Please share this with others and comment, give us a like and do all those fun stuff. It would be greatly appreciated. Until next time, I hope to see you at the next episode of Wabi Sabi.

Bye.