The Stories We Tell Ourselves

Welcome to Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. And of all the episodes that we have ever done, this is gonna be sort of like the quinine cent, quinine, what is, how do you even say that word, Jim? Yeah, about Wabi Sabi, because I literally just got off a plane from Japan, 10 days in Japan, and there's nothing, which has inspired the name of this podcast of Wabi Sabi, of the art of imperfection.

quintessential quintessential Yeah

and uh I thought it would be fitting that we record today, even though like I wasn't sure when we first set this up, because it is the day I fly back after 10 days and all the jet lag and everything, but I go, I'm sure I'm going to be able to make it. So looking forward to talking about Japan uh and excited about that. Anyways, so Jim, how are you been? How's your last couple of weeks been?

Awesome. Good. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you're right. It's the, it is the art of imperfection and definitely want to hear about that. And thank you for the, photo of the cap of the Wabi Sabi cap that you sent from Japan as well too, which is on brand.

You, oh dude, I am like beating myself up for, we were at the Tokyo city flea market and my daughter and my wife was so excited. I have this video, I never seen my wife jump, like my wife was like a kid on a couple of times on this trip and that was like my best special moment, it still sticks in my head. She was like so overjoyed and they were heading to this flea market. They picked up. I don't know what is going on in Japan, but in, if I don't know if you've ever been, but there's a, in Japan, there are so many secondhand stores. Like, you know, when you see like, you know, in Spain, there's like vintage stores. can kind of see it, but those like, you know, happens, right? Every, every country has a vintage. It is ridiculous. The vintage stores that they have, like we're talking, when we talking vintage, is Louis Vuitton, the Gucci's, the, you know, like we're talking the, you know, Hermes bags.

Not a minute.

that are you know $30,000 like they have secondhand stores for that. And so this flea market was you know, they they really wanted to go and so they went, they picked up like, you know, these jackets and coats and bags for ridiculous amount. I'm talking like $25 or $30. Yeah, exactly. It was crazy. I mean used but man, it looked like

Right. What You did say to me just of just before we came on uh on the line, he said, oh, we were talking about flying inside interrupt you there. just saw when you cause normally you're a notorious on board, um, uh, carry on that seat in and out efficiency. And you said to me, and you said to me, Oh, look, well, Tom, I got home and then we had to pick up the extra bag and stuff. went, hang on a second. There's a story there. Right. So please go ahead. Cause this is not.

Yep, carry on. Knack sack. That's it 10 days all of us. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so we had to buy an extra large suitcase to fit all this stuff in that you actually end up buying in Japan. And so I was in this flea market and I saw and I took a photo and there's this perfect hat that says Wabi Sabi. It was right at the beginning of the flea market. And I took this photo and I sent it to you. For whatever reason, I did not even pick up that hat. That probably had probably cost me a dollar. I didn't buy it. Like, I don't know why. It was just one of those like silly moments of like regret.

You go out of crypt.

Later on, actually, my wife and daughter actually did go back a second time the following week. Um, and I said, you gotta find that hat. Cause I'm in there like, why didn't you buy it? I'm like, I wasn't thinking, I wasn't thinking for myself. I was just like, I wasn't going to buy anything. But anyway, so that was my biggest regret. I'm sorry, Jim for it. Cause it would have been, you know, sitting over here, it could have been like sit every time we record or to spin it. But, ah, man, was one of those moments, sliding mode door moments. It just slipped away, you know, decision.

No, no, no, no. Yeah. It would have been, or we can just commit. oh But, but it was like, because it's a few weeks, right? Since we've recorded the last one, I had to bail on you. wasn't feeling very well. So that was just before you went away. So it's quite a few weeks. There's a lot to catch up on. Uh, and I definitely want to hear about Japan. I wanted to frame today if I can about.

Hmm.

You know, there was, was a pretty significant trip for you to go to Japan, right? And you touched on that last time we recorded. So I'd really love to hear your thoughts on that, but really I've been sitting a lot in the last few weeks about the stories we tell ourselves. And you know, we we've got big changes occurring too, which I'll definitely let you know, not we're not, I'm not relocating. Just, just spoil it. Cause I saw your facial expression. No, no, no, no. So, but there's big change, but it's the stories you tell around that. I wanted to create.

I was gonna say, I'm like, where are going now?

a bit of mystique, a bit of an aura of, okay, where are going with this? But also to really find out, you know, how and why this trip to Japan will use significant for you and your family. uh

Yeah, it really mattered a lot. And there's definitely a lot of tying in and I'll try to give some context around this. You know, a couple of weeks about, um I've been thinking about Japan for a very, very long time. I went there nine years ago, I would say approximately. I was there because I was invited to go speak at the US military base uh in Japan. And which meant that I had to land in Tokyo and I was only there for maybe two days max. So I got a quick glimpse of what Tokyo was and I freaking loved it. And I always wanted to vow to go back. But my wife um is not a venturous eater. And so, you know, we've always kind of like avoided Japan just because I didn't know what she was going to do in terms of food. And around COVID time, I was going to like, we should make a trip, you know, like we're here, which is not that far. You know, when I say not that far, it 10 hours from Australia or whatever. And but we never made it obviously with COVID. And so now that, you know, after all these years, I still want to go back to Japan because but You know, we were supposed to consider last year and then looking this year, have kids scheduling with exams and stuff. It just got really hard. But I just came to this conclusion. I had so many friends who just went to Japan and came back and they said they loved it. And I made this like, this is the story, right? The story tells of next year. We'll do this next year. Right. And it's like one of those things that it was like, we'll wait until next year. And something really hit me around probably Christmas this year and spending time with the kids and. And I think we went skiing just before Christmas. And I realized that my daughter is going away from university. I know I'm not losing my daughter or anything. oh But I'm not trying to make it as dramatic as possible. But I also realize that things are going to change. When she moves, she goes to Scotland. I think she's going to go to St. Andrews. She's accepted so far, so unless she changes her mind. em But it's just going to be different. She's going on a different schedule. We're not going to see her as much. I just felt like, if I don't do this in the next few months, when are we gonna do this, right? I don't wanna go to Tokyo in the middle of summer when it's hot. um April was either April or February break. And April, the price was just ridiculous, because it's cherry blossom season and everybody's traveling. It was twice the price. And I looked at the price and I was like, this is kind of expensive. It's a long trip. Can we squeeze? Like, we only have a week off.

Yep. Yeah.

We have to take a couple of days. So we, we have planned 11 days. I took out 11 days. like, you know what? Kids can miss school. Kids can miss a couple of days here and there. And I just said, screw it. You know, F it, let's go and just booked it. I just booked it and let's just deal with it as we go. And, and we did that maybe in January and man, so that's just like, for me, the story that you told us was like, Oh, we can't do it or do it next time. But there was this moment of like, just thinking if we don't do it now, like when.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and it's always going to be next year or next year. And I think I've been feeling a little bit more, um, at least in my head, and this is now the story I'm trying to tell myself now, which is like, live now. Like, why, why are we waiting for certain things? Why are we putting off certain things? Um, why can't we sort of make things happen? You know, whether it be finances, sure. It was expensive and all this stuff and how are we going to make it work? I'm like, I always kind of make it work. I always somehow just got to make it work out the end. Sure. It's a little bit stressful, but.

Thank

I took this chance and I told the kids, know, like, listen, this is a very expensive trip. This is something that it's going to. I want to make this as a family trip and I want to make this as something memorable. wanted to remember this, that I want to use this trip to experience together, you know, not like when there's not one of those shifts where you go in hotel and just, you know, get room service and just hang out in the hotel and watch TV. No, no, we're going to experience this culture. We're going to get every day. We're just going to go out there. and experienced as much and we come home, crashed and go to bed. And then we start again the next day and move from one city to another. And they were very good about it. They were very good at making sure that they soaked everything in as much as possible. And we try to fit everybody to what they liked. so, yeah, mean, man, I learned so much. I have so much stories to tell, but that's sort of how this trip was so significant to me because of the timing. And I wrote a post about this around. the beginning of my trip about 18 summers, which is, you know, a friend of mine, James Shields told me about this 18 summer thing, but how we have only kids for 18 summers and really kind of stuck with me. It really hit home with me to make sure that I was trying to honor that and to make sure that we, you know, do these significant trips. Um, not just so we can have a holiday. I don't need a holiday. was just like, I needed to want to spend time with my family to create a magical moment. So it's locked into our brain. We're always remember like, Oh, do you remember when, you know, 10 years later, when they're all grown up and like, oh, I remember that trip we took with dad and mom in Tokyo or Osaka or wherever. That's the memory I want to kind of stick in their brain.

Mm. Yeah, I love that. and because, you know, when you, when you open up a uh conversation, like the stories you tell ourselves, that can go anywhere, right? That can go anywhere. And why I wanted to start with that is that the story you're telling yourself was, you know, we can keep putting it off. can, know, one day, someday, someday, someday, someday become some week, some month. then ultimately you're in the death bed going, could have ordered, I should have. And to me, I think there's, there's definitely something about that. Um, it's, it's.

Hmm. Mm-hmm.

It's important to plan for tomorrow, but live for today. And I think that there's a very, there's a truism in that and finding that harmony where you're not basically not planning for, for the year, but not taking it for granted either. So I think that that's, that's a really important realization. I've certainly come across that. And I guess the motivation for that for me, twofold was ah in the last last few weeks, we had a jujitsu grading and. I, I'm on the process. I'm working towards a specific, two specific black belts. Um, and yeah, I got, I got leveled up, which was wonderful, but every. Thank you. Thank you. Um, and, you know, what's really interesting is that I'm the second oldest guy in the club. Um, the old guys there is 70 and he's just happy just getting on the mat, you know, and it blew me away. How many people referenced the two of us as the oldest statesman of the club?

Congratulations, that's awesome.

And going, Hey, you know, I'm in my twenties and yes, I'm kicking my individual goals, but I look around and I go, you guys are still showing up. You know, like I'm sore at 20 when I'm doing this, can't imagine what it's like for you. Right. So we have had to change the script and the narrative about what that means. Right. Because I'm of an age, you know, you will approach that in seven years time Lawrence, where you can be sore, just getting up at a bit in the morning and that can be. So.

I'm sore now, man.

At least I have a reason for it, you know, at least to me, I have a, can justify that. And I feel really good about that. It's not for everybody. I totally get it. And neither is CrossFit and others paddle, but I'm at a point where I'm going, if I'm going to be. So with experiences, without experience, I'm going to take the experiences, right? Because things that fill my cup. that was one part of it. And the other part of the story was, you know, whenever you level up in, in, in.

Mm.

Jiu-jitsu, but particularly the one of the styles that have, you only even have four steps and that can take you 10, 12, 15 years. I've been on a 15 year pathway and journey and I'm on my final step in terms of this discipline. But every time someone gets another belt, there's a lot of people that go, I just don't, I thought I'd be better or they haven't embodied that step because the moment that you actually get leveled up, there's a target on your back and you haven't had a chance to integrate an identity upgrade to the version of the person there. So, you know, one of the requirements was people will come up, talk about belts and their promotion. would say 80 % of people going, don't, don't feel this level yet. You know, um, it's the, it's the, was the rare person who said, I really feel like I'm, I'm, I'm grateful. And I feel like I'm, know, I've, I own this, so to speak. So there's a little bit of a lag and, and every time something amazing happens in people's lives and worlds. There's a period of lag in a period where you feel like an imposter that you have to cycle through, but that's a story that has to be a narrative that you change in order for you to solidify. Otherwise you'll push away things that good things that happen to your wife, life, life experiences, because you don't feel worthy of those. So that's kind of what was going through my mind in bringing this conversation, but there's so many inflections and entry points that will go here.

Yeah, I mean, remember you, you know, you making that choice, you know, when you left Spain and and I know that one of the difficult challenges for you to leave in Spain was actually leaving your club and leaving the peers and also the the, you know, the mentors and also the training that you actually did. And I know you talked about wanting to go back to Barcelona, but not really doing it right. The first first year or so. then and I'm sure you told a whole bunch of stories in your mind of why. that couldn't work or shouldn't work. And then I think in the second year, I think you're in your second year now, and now it's like, no, no, no, like, I can do this. And you made an effort this year to like plan for it and that you're going to, yeah, and you did it. Yeah.

Yeah, I did. And I was part of it as well as I'm well in leading up to the recording Lawrence, because I went, I trained two or three times a day, which was wonderful. I felt great. I came back. I probably knew how you're pushing a little bit too hard. And then my body said to me, no, you definitely were afterwards. I was, I was run down. So, but you know, that, know, when you talked about you posting, I posted that, you know, in life, the only way you know, you've gone too far is to step over that line.

Yeah, I you got sick.

because if you pull up short all the time, you never know what your pocket was possible for you. So, okay, my bad. went over that line. went too far by now. No, I can bring it in a bit, but I got 10, 15 % more out of myself because I did push myself. Then I would have had, just gone by how I felt at the moment. So that was the learning for me.

Yeah, yeah. I think that you, know, and congratulations for taking that, you know, that you changed that story, right? I think, you know, personally, I can see it that you changed that story this year to go, no, I can train, you know, I'm to make that effort. And you made that effort. And now you're, I think you're planning several weeks that you're going to be in Barcelona to do the training. And that, which is a completely different story that you had in your first year, you know, because it was, it was hard. It was sort of similar to mine, right? It was like, Oh, last year was, you know, we could have gone there, it was so hard. You kind of just create all these things. And it's amazing how, like, if you look back and peel back on our lives, our whole lives are made up of stories, right? And I was just actually listening to something and I'm going to butcher this, but it's, you know, they're saying that most of us, like when we think about, you know, our past and who we are, it's just stories. Stories where we, you know, we created for ourselves or stories that we believed in or stories that someone else told us. And really, it's not who we are. It's just a moment of who we were. And we actually have an opportunity to change that story at any given moment. But most of us don't do that. Most of us don't intentionally really try to rewire our brain towards a different story. And what he talked about, I actually was blown away. I think his name is Chase Hughes. I was, you he was talking about like, just imagine if you're, currently state like right now, whoever you are, no matter what age you're in, the future hasn't been written. But most of the time, like with 99 % probability, you're just gonna continue the story that you currently hold onto and believe in. And so therefore it's a predictable future, which is one of the reasons why I left Sydney in the first place, in Australia in the first place, was because I saw that predictability and how scared I was and I needed to change that. and rewrite that. so, but any given moment for any of us is that there are literally thousands, if not millions of future us of opportunities, if you actually think about it, there's probably millions of versions of the multiverse of happening. And the reason why that is, is because the choice you decide to make, say in the next 10 seconds, will then open up a different. reality of how you would have, didn't make that choice, whether left or right. And then further on, there's gonna be choices down those paths that you might make left or right choices. And we're only taking two choices. You can imagine the computation of the future you is gonna be very different. And the choices are gonna be dependent on the story you tell yourself in that moment. And so you can either do one or two things. One is you can continue.

Yeah.

making those choices as if the story, who you are is who you are, or you can actually go, well, what if I'm not? What if I'm choosing that I could actually do something that my previous version of myself 10 seconds ago wouldn't approve or wouldn't do it? And it's something that I think that's a choice that leads into a perfect opportunity. I don't know, I shouldn't be saying this because I really wanna to kind of surprise people with it, but we'll see. uh

Have we got a scoop? Is there a scoop?

A scoop? not a scoop, no, no. It's just something that I thought, it's actually relevant for the podcast, so I'll say it in the podcast. there's a, I don't know if you know, there's a brand in Japan called Onosuka Tigers. The Onosuka Tigers, yeah, right, it's the shoe. And it's famous because, know, Nike, yeah, the strip, it's, yeah, it's exactly, and that's what Asics bought Onosuka Tigers, and that's why Asics looks exactly very identical to it. uh

Okay. Yes. the strip that's right here.

But Anasuka Tiger shoes was what Phil Knight used to, was the distributor in the US before Nike, right? So he bought these shoes because he felt like when he was in Japan, the runners like running was like, oh, these are really comfortable shoes. So he was the one who was importing these shoes. This is before they came up with the Nike shoes with the waffles and stuff. um, but anyways, and that's the sort of the famous part of it. But there's also famous is too, is there's the yellow. pair of Anasuko Tigers, right? Yellow shoe with the black stripes. And because Bruce Lee, was one of the Bruce Lee movies, I can't remember which one, and there was also Redone again with Kill Bill when Uma Thurman wore her yellow suit. And it's like an iconic, you know, yellow shoe and they just leaned into it. So now there's a couple of Anasuko Tigers, all yellow, the whole building is all yellow. It's absolutely stunning.

Oh, wow.

You know, my intention was going there and like, listen, I don't, you know, me, like I don't, I don't pull off shoes like that, but there's a part of me just goes, but what if I could, man? Like, what if I could, right? I, what if I could rock those, these yellow on a, a sequel tiger's shoes? And my wife, Karen's like, don't do it. They're so ugly. I'm like, I know they're ugly, but they're just, I feel like this is one of the, and my wife was just pushing, pushing, like don't do it. And I'm telling my kids, I'm like, you know, I'm to do it right.

oh Are you rocking these tigers now? I'm going, I'm going there. I love it. I love it. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.

And and so yeah, so yeah, so whether I bought it or not, we'll see but I got a good story, uh you know, maybe on

But if they make an appearance somewhere in some capacity, in some stage somewhere in a stage near you, you now know the backstory. Busting through an identity. Interestingly, I'm finding there's a link here. We've just finished at the time of recording the Winter Olympics here in Europe, it was in Italy. um

Yes, now you know the story, the backstory of the Anastasios Koutagas.

There's a, there's a free skier called Eileen Gu. Have you, have you come across? She's amazing. She's an amazing and incredibly articulate, talented free skier. Um, two interviews that I saw with her recently was all about this identity. When someone said to you, did you paraphrasing, did you choke and miss out on the gold medal? She goes, no, no, no, you don't understand. Right. I'm doing stuff that no one's asked before. And it's like, everybody's leveling up. So she was super articulate and clear on that. But the other part.

I think, oh yeah, oh yeah, she's gorgeous. Oh, her, her, her ego was not like, not in a bad way, but her like, her self confidence and herself, she goes, I am the most decorated in skier in the world. What are you talking about?

No, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me help you. Let me help you. Right. That was phenomenal interview. And then there's another one. I only just saw this yesterday, today where she was talking about her future. Like if you guys, if the 18 year old version of me can see what I'm doing now and the possibilities and the neuroplasticity, because someone had asked her, you are very articulate. You're very quick. you, what, get us, give us an insight into your brain. And she just went.

Oh yes.

Boom. was like a minor, these mic drop moments. How synchronous is that? Right. But I was so impressed with her and her ability and capacity to articulate exactly what it means to actually tell yourself a story and follow it through. Now. Um, yeah. What are your thoughts on that?

literally saw that five minutes before we ran the recording. That is hilarious. Well, listen, I haven't really followed her too, too much. have heard of her, but this Olympics, I haven't heard of Obviously I was in Japan, so I didn't really watch much of the Olympics. was just kind of, that's right. Yeah. And that's right. Yeah. She, mean, she's not, but she's not even just a, amazing free skater. She's the most decorated free skater in the world. Uh, she's won more, I think six medals now at 22 years old. Um, she is also a, like a model as well.

She was born in America and represented China in the free skiing, but just, oh, mate, incredibly awesome. At 22. At 22.

Uh, and also, think I can't remember what school does she went to, but, um, very articulated, very like diverse in everything that she's doing. She's smart. She's good looking. She's, you know, also athletic. She's got like the whole entire package. And what's interesting is that she, yeah, but her ego, like her self-confidence in herself and her ability to articulate. And she almost has to be, mean, when you think about the controversy with her, is that, you know, a lot of her, you know, a lot of Americans are calling her a traitor because she's born and raised in America and, uh, you know, now competing for China. I think there's also a lot to defend that. think that's going to take a lot of, it takes a tough skin and tough mental ability to kind of ignore all of that and still just put in the work and just do the thing. But I'm sure there's a lot of strategic decisions on why she does it. I the appeal for her in China will be skyrocketed, I imagine, so you can imagine the endorsements and stuff will just be, like, I'm not saying that that's why she did it. But I think, I don't know, does she ever represent America?

Dude, yeah. I can't remember. can't. Yeah. I've only really just become aware of her and these Olympics. Uh, all right. I really, really this one and it just pockets, but I'll tell you what I've actually also been captivated by for some reason is curling. Like the gym and they're playing it as everywhere and I'm doing, I find myself watching it. I'm going.

in the first couple of minutes? um Hmm. I remember her from the last Olympics and how she did and yeah. Yes.

This is ridiculous. This is like, I've seen it and I could never understand, but I was watching it at the point of plug goes, Hey dude, are you going to finish yourself? I'm sorry. was totally mesmerized, but it just like, gave me, maybe it's because we're now in the Northern hemisphere and the winter Olympics become real, but suddenly they're on my radar. went, wow. I mean, I've always looked at the skeleton and the solution, all those kinds of things that you guys are crazy, but to actually now be in an environment where that's a reality.

Hmm. Hmm.

Suddenly it got on my radar because you don't really think of Olympics when you're actually sunning in the beach.

Yeah. Well, hey, but Australians are doing so well, you know, for for there was even a video of a Canadian who's like, if an Australian wins another gold medal before we do, saying these kids are grown up in sand and not snow, how is that possible? It was pretty funny. But no, I think, yeah, I just think I just think the the Australians do really well. I actually enjoyed the last few Winter Olympics being in Australia. I do miss the coverage, because, you know, when you're being in Europe,

considering, considering. Is that Mm.

you kind of just only able to watch whatever they show you on TV. loved in Australia, they just basically showed all the highlights of all the Australian uh athletes. So there was always great to kind of just watch those. And I still remember, I still remember this, you're talking about Alinkoo, there was a camera, his name, this is going back about maybe three or four Olympics ago, Australian had a downhill uh mogul skier that won gold medal for us, but he was actually Canadian. And the reason why he's an Australian was because he was a Canadian entrepreneur and he had a tech business. And the Canadian ski team was like, no, you have to dedicate yourself to 100 % to training to the schedule. And he's like, no, I got a company to run. He's out trained or whatever. goes, no, he goes, no, we won't let you on the team. So he goes to Australia, Australia accepts him, right? And he wins a gold medal for Australia.

you

I'm still running his tech company. I thought it was an awesome story. Being Canadian and Australian at the same time, thought like good on him, right? Good reputation.

That is, that is, that's hilarious. Hey, you know, know, obviously as car practice and background story, they've got a upcoming seminar in Adelaide in next month. And the keynote speaker is Steven Bradbury, who was the Australian guy who he's one of the keynote speakers on there. But the link that I was actually going to say to you, Lawrence, and this is the part, um, uh, I'm not sure if I mentioned it to you, but my, my son Xavier, he's with us at the moment, right? He.

No way nice

He was, uh, I think he might've been here when we recorded last, I'm pretty sure he was. And he was looking at going head into, um, he, had a mobility, uh, youth mobility visa. went to the UK, worked in there, traveled around a little bit, and he was just sitting and going out, contemplating going, okay, this is what I'm going to do. about a week to decide, um, what I'm going to do. And he said, no, I'm going to follow through with my, uh, extension of visa in the UK. And a couple of plans that he was looking at. progressing didn't pan out that way. And he stopped and reflected and he said like two days to go. And he said, okay, what I'm going to do. And at that point at a left field, this invitation came to him from the other side of the world. And so he went out of the country because he had to be out of the country when the youth mobility went to France for four days, which you kind of do when you're here. And then he came back into the country, reset three months, but he applied for youth mobility visa to Canada.

Oh wow.

And within three weeks he's gotten that approved. So he is moving to Toronto. Yes way. And he said to me, know, Lawrence, when he gave us all those recommendations, when, when we're in Portugal, I go, yeah, goes, is that the same guy that's got connections to, I go, yes, he is. he, any recommendations that you have, my son's over is going to really looking forward to it, but it highlights.

No way. You oh I'm probably the worst person for Toronto because I left there 25 years ago

Lawrence, you, you, you'll find it. You'll find it. But what I was just trying to, I guess in the story of that is there's so many stories for us as a family around that. Right. So it's like, you hear you're going, you're trying something new. It's new. don't know. doesn't know a soul in Toronto, ah but he's willing to go there and back himself and follow through. And that was really. The stories we tell ourselves was how many people would go, I don't know a soul, not only just in another country, um, but to, to, to towns up two suburbs up, I don't know anybody and how many times people would tap themselves out personally before they even gave themselves an opportunity. So what astounds me in this, and that's probably a product of, guess, nature and nurture, you know, in our, in our family, where we're encouraged to back ourselves and do those kinds of things. But literally I'm talking like within two days of one door shot opening one door shutting the other one opened and didn't just open in a big way. just, it involved a huge, like I'm going all in and he's, you know, he's applied for a whole lot of different roles, some of which were, he was head hunted for, but you know, I just, stopped for a moment and go sometimes, sometimes they pick up more than you try and teach them, you know, and that was one of those. ah

Yeah, no, that's great. He's taking actions, right? Like, I mean, you you raised them well for kids to be able to take these actions. And it's not until the moments when they actually start taking these actions, we start to realize, I'm like, okay, I think I did an okay job, right? Because you always kind of worry, right? I had the similar moment. um actually come back to Toronto, like, listen, any connections I can make for sure. Like, I do know a lot of people in Toronto. um So more for food.

Yeah, think they're gonna be like that. Yeah. Yeah. There's more food. He's restaurant recommendations are phenomenal. You know, he's not going to get those recommendations from me, Lawrence. that's why I'm just trying to lean on you a little bit for that.

Oh, I actually built the whole website on that now. I should send that to you. Yeah. Well, I have been there the last couple of times in the last couple of years, so I will send them what I have. In regards to like kids, it's funny. My daughter has been killing on LinkedIn. So anybody listening to this, go follow Kaya Tam, K-A-I-A, and she's been posting every day on LinkedIn. Every day.

Okay. Right.

Even when she went over to Japan, she's like at nighttime, you know, back in the room at nine o'clock and she's like somehow posting. She is destroying it. Like I am, I'm so inspired and also making me feel like, Oh man, I'm just not doing this right. But she is posting every day. I think she's on day 50 or something like that, or maybe day 30. I have no idea. Like she's, she's been just, and what, what's really interesting is that, you know, like going back to like how, you know, your kids think we're doing okay. Like I think we know we've done something right. And for her to be able to do this. And what I see in her is that she's finding her tribe, she's finding her people. And I asked her that, I'm like, it seems like you're meeting a lot of different people. And I think she's finally found people that she goes, oh, there are people just like me, but they're just not at my school. And she's realizing that now, she just seems like, I can't wait to get out of here. She's been saying that for two years and she's going through school through the motions, but now, she's excited.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

she's getting job offers and internships and like, you know, in San Francisco. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And she's like brushing it off. I'm like, Oh my God, this is so I think one of these things that you know, when you it's going back to the theme of this, which is it's the story she has that she's telling herself on this is that she goes, you got to go for it. Like, you know, you got to create your own luck. And, you know, and and that's why she's doing it. And she realizes that

Yep. Yeah. I would. Yes, you would.

The opportunity is not just going to come. They have to be kind of, you you have to kind of put yourself in the situation to kind of create these to occur. And this is going back to the story about me talking about the future, right? The future self is that you're making choices intentionally right now that could be different for the future. But there's also a manifestation, you know, going back to like thinking about who do you feel like you can be and then making choices from the future rather than the past. And I've been thinking a lot about that lately, just to recognize, well, yeah, if I only make choices from my past, then it's kind of a slower process. What if I just project myself five years from now and go, who do I think and how do I imagine who I will actually be and who I'm trying to chase? And then what would that person be? What would that person be doing um that I should be considering to help me make choices now? Because if I continue only making choices in the past, I'm always going to be just a little bit better version of myself. But if I make a choice from the version that I actually was trying to aspire to be, I might make different choices. Hence, with the whole point of the shoe story, right? It's just because like, what if I made a different choice? What if I, you know, decide to like not care about what, you know, what other people think? And this is like, you know, the stand, you know, and it's not about the shoes or the color or whatever. It's like, it's the choice that you make that makes you remind yourself of like the choices that you should be making in every part of your life.

Yeah. And that is, that is so true. Isn't it amazing when you look at them and you go, wow, that's amazing. Like, yeah, I learned it from you and you go. Great. Okay. So where am I not doing that right now? so suddenly go, damn. Okay. Yeah. So that's, that's really, that was the first thing that came to my mind when you were saying that story is like, wow, awesome. Where am I holding back or where am I not going for it? And now that then, and I'm really, really grateful.

Yes, it's just a mirror. They're a mirror. Yes. Oh, God.

to have that realization as it like you just did as well to Lawrence, which is even, it was just even funnier. But I, I just, I love that as a conversation piece, the fact that she's just going out there and trying and doing that. But sometimes what happens is the environment that you're in. And this is, I guess this is what I've come to understand too. One of the benefits of being able to move is that you can redo invent yourself and you don't have your

Oh yeah.

Your, your experiences to reinforce that identity of yourself, because if you happen to move, let's say to Madrid tomorrow and you went into a new group, they go, Oh, here's Lawrence with the yellow tiger shoes, because that's their only reference for you. Right. But you're not fighting against preexisting, uh, versions of you. And that's what sometimes is really hard for people who want to change, but stay where they are, not just geographically, but in their environment, their group.

Mm-hmm.

There has to be some kind of shift and so many people who have done things they often, know, that you're, you're, what's the, you're a prophet and your own homeland. Like sometimes you're not appreciated in your homeland. People have to go to other countries, you know, in the Australian tech industry, for example, is notorious for it where they weren't celebrated. Talent wasn't celebrated. had to go off shore. I to go to another country to strike it big because they couldn't get any traction in their own country. Sometimes because people will go, Oh, we don't have a strong tech industry in this country, or you always do this, or you always pick spaghetti over steak, whatever. And so it's hard to break out of that. But when you actually take the initiative and go, right, that's it. I'm going to change. I'm going to do something intentionally. You don't know what it opens up to.

It's amazing how powerful stories um control your behavior, right? So because what you think often obviously then dictates the behavior and then the behavior dictates the action and the action dictates the outcome, right? And so here's a perfect example, right? And when I went to Japan, one of the first things I noticed after being there for a few days is like, is Tokyo, Japan itself, no matter where you are, it's just... every day. It's so busy. Like it is packed. And it's not even busy season right now. And the amount of tourists and the amount of people that are there, you just go like, I can't I can you imagine what does it be like in the summer or what during the Tokyo Olympics or, you know, during cherry blossom season, you're like, I don't even know how anybody functions in this world. And you would think that living in this crazy, you know, environment with 14 million people, whatever in the city, you start to think like, wow, is how is this possible? But yet, I thought I was the most calm that I've ever been in any city. And the contrast that, you know, in Portugal, it's like, you know, beautiful, peaceful, sunny, know, know, Barcelona, like, it's just, but I don't feel necessary calm all the time because like I'm fighting against bureaucracy and slowness and nothing works. Right. And it's the exact opposite. So the, on the outside, it's like, supposed to be peaceful, but internally it's frustrating to live, you know, I'm sure you went through the same thing in Spain.

Wow. Yep, yep, yep.

But in Tokyo, it's like, the outside, you're like, oh my God, it's chaotic. Shibuya Crossing, is the most ridiculous crossing ever. You see everybody on the other side. It's like, like Braveheart, or whatever those movies. And then everybody's on the other side. And we're on this side. And literally, there's like 1,000 people on this side, and there's 1,000 people on that side, and there's 1,000 people on left and right. And as soon as the light turns green, we all have to somehow cross. We somehow have to squeeze through.

And it worked.

everybody that's coming this way, and it just works. And you go, how is this possible? So let me bring this all back, right? Because that crossing em goes every crossing each moment is like 1000 to 3000 people estimated that cross every two minutes, every two minutes, it's like, at some time at peak, it could be a quarter million people that cross that crossing ah that in that one day. Now,

set of lights. Yeah.

I'm sure, you know, we crossed that a couple of times, we just want to take pictures, but that's a lot of people. But the thing is that what you notice in Japan, I'll give you another example. There's no trash bins anywhere. Okay. Yet is the cleanest city in the world that I've ever been in. Third element, when you get out of, when you go into a, get out of a subway, when you go up the escalator, everybody's in the line waiting for you to go through. And you know what? You don't just go.

Yeah. Hmm.

They go stand on the left-hand side, leave the right-hand side for anybody who wanna walk it. It's like literally like clockwork. And you go, how is that possible? And the first thing I noticed that no one jaywalks.

Hmm.

There's no jaywalking. there's literally no cars coming, it's a red life for the pedestrians. No one crosses. no one. even not even the, like sure, there's one or two stupid tourists, but most of the time the tourists obey. And it's like, wow. And this is what comes back to the story. There's in this culture, there's a culture of respect. A culture of respecting each other, respecting each space. You when you eat something, you don't eat and walk. You have to kind of buy your stuff and eat it or you take it home. When you have garbage in your hand, you got to keep it until you bring it home to your own garbage. And when you're doing the crossing, it's like almost the tourist falls in line. And this the whole it's a cultural thing. This. But that's the thing. But everybody has to agree upon it. Do you see what I mean? And this is like the whole story.

Hmm. Yeah. It's like a living system really, isn't it? Like it, yeah. Are you talking like a collective consciousness or a collective buy-in? Yeah.

It's a total culture. It's a total culture. Can you imagine like, but, as soon as, as soon as it got on the air to the airport, I was flying Iberia, airline, so I have a Spanish airline and it's chaos, right? Cause this is nothing, this is nothing about the Spanish people. It's just, it's just European or North Americans or whatever. It just becomes chaos, right? Sure. Most people will fall in line, but there's always the, you know, 10 % of the people like they're just going to squeeze in and it's like,

Yeah, yeah.

It's just like all hell breaks loose and that's culture, right? The Chinese are notorious for this. uh Chinese tourists, like they don't care about lines. They see a line, they're gonna form their own line. It's like, and...

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I was, was contrasting what you were saying with you. just go to Haji Min city and it's absolutely chaos and, the same sort of things where you've got so many people and you're going, where are the traffic lights? I can't see them. And I go, no, no, you just walk across. like, what are you talking about? There's like motorbikes coming and, but they just go just walk and walk in a steady pace and look straight where you're going. And it's worse. you go, how is that possible?

And cars will avoid void you. Yeah.

Right. It just doesn't make sense that that would be the case. So, but there's a, there's a rhythm, but

Yeah. So the thing is, so you think about like the whole culture of Japanese, just so much respect, so much, uh the perfection and the craft and the dedication to food, and they just have a certain way of doing things. And that trickles down to generations. It trickles down through the whole entire society. It trickles down to the tourists who are there because they observe and they go, okay, we got to fall in line. And this is what I mean by stories, right? This is exactly how it works within our own stories. This is the stories we tell ourselves and then how we act accordingly. This is the stories we tell ourselves, which we then pass it on to our kids. This is the stories we tell ourselves and the friends we kind of choose. And this is how we kind of, there's almost like this unconscious societal community agreement, right, that we kind of work with. And sometimes the question is, like, what are the stories that actually work? And what are the stories that maybe, is not working for you. That's what that's why I wouldn't want to contrast. I'm just saying how I'm using Tokyo and Japan itself as how powerful stories affect behavior in general. But then we also got to contrast that and go, okay, but what are the stories that actually do work? Because I think certain behaviors like, you know, us going to the gym on a regular basis, you know, showing up and doing all the those stories are really empowering, right? Okay, you know, like I had to go to the gym today, even though I like I said to you, I'd right before work, I feel like I've through almost threw up three times, I have to like, really just kind of catch myself there.

us.

But it's because that's what we do. We're athletes. We got to show up and we got to do our thing no matter what. It's either today or tomorrow, but it's going to be painful regardless. But then there's also stories that are holding us back. know, stories that we are not good enough. Stories like, oh, I don't know if I can do this, or I'm too old for this, or I don't have enough skills, or the imposter syndrome. Those are just stories too, which are not serving us. But by holding onto those stories is affecting our behavior.

Yeah.

which is then affecting certain decisions and actions that we don't take or do take, which then has the different outcome that we're to have in two to three years down the track.

I was interested when you said about, you know, the generationally, because sometimes you'll sometimes see a little bit of a variation and change, you, I was very surprised to say that, it's, it's the continuity happens all the way through a generation. And it, when you said about the, the tourists, you know, it's along the lines of that, you know, that old five monkeys experiment where they had, used to

Yes. Yeah. Yep.

They have that experiment where there'd be have five monkeys for people who don't know five monkeys in a room. And, and they basically one would go up to try and get a banana and they'd douse them with water. So they're basically the after a while, what would happen is they take a monkey out and after over time, they would have. They would have replaced every monkey that possibly would have experienced the being wet, but then they'd have a whole group, but then none of them, no one would reach for the banana because. it somehow was ingrained into them. So I was really curious to find out whether it's just culturally, it's part of the DNA and, and, and it sounds like the ripple, like for it to ripple through to tourists, something special must be there where they're looking at everybody around them and going, well, no one's doing it. So whether they fall into line as a result of that.

Yeah. I think it's definitely generational because I actually went into a samurai museum and they talked about the samurai and never realized how like in depth the samurai was and the culture and like the respect and all the things that they do. And I was like, oh man, I got to definitely read into this. Made me want to go back and, oh man.

spent my whole life loving the samurai for that whole thing, because it's the reverence and the honor and the code, the Bushido code, all of those things just fascinate me. Yes.

Yes. Yeah, I bought the book, The Five Rings. I think it's called The Five Rings. And I'm going to go reread that because I never really got the whole essence of it when I read it the first time. now that I got to see it, like, oh my. They kind of showed some of the key elements from that book. I'm like, oh my god. That's stoicism. That's pure stoicism and learnings.

Yeah. Yeah.

and is so true to everyday life. But if you think about that was from like the 1500s, right? And so that's still passed on that honor that the whole respect of bowing like the I was, I was honored like every single time when you say thank you, you just almost like you want to turn around and say thank you very much. You know, like this honor of, you know, for anything, could just be the guy from the train station or the you know, someone serving a meal is always this honor of thank you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. eh

Thank you very much. And the funniest thing is when you go to a place called Nara Park and Nara Park is these deers. There's a beautiful temple there. And there's these wild deers and these wild deers just kind of show up. And obviously they're there for tourists now and they just feed them and these crackers. They're just everywhere. ah And as you walk and my wife just loved it, she's so funny. Basically the deer bow to you. You bow to the deer and the deer bows to you and then you give them food because they've been trained for years to just like bow.

What? Oh, that is cool. That is so cool.

They just bow every deer. The ones that you can tell the baby ones are not sure yet. They just kind of do a flick of the head because they're not really sure what to do with it. But it is absolutely stunning. There's all over the park, you just bow and they bow and you give them a little food. So they've been trained. Obviously trained by tourists and stuff. even the sense of respect culturally, but even affects the animals. oh There's just that reverence. um I find that fascinating. um

Wow, that is awesome. That is awesome.

So like I'm like, I'm still soaking up that whole culture and that Tokyo is just so different in whole Japan. um Kyoto was just just the history behind it was fascinating to me. And I think that's what really kind of got to me was just understanding the, these buildings that's been around from like 700, you know, AD and these temples have been around for so long. you think, wow, like so much has happened here. But that obedience and that culture is so different than what all the other cultures I experienced. I told, speaking to Karen about this morning, it's like, what was so special about it for me was, you know, like say Australians or Americans come to Europe and they're like, wow, it's amazing. Like it is amazing, right? But you and I have lived in Europe now for four years now and it's amazing. It still is amazing. But if I went to say Copenhagen, which I've never been to yet, um it'll still be amazing. like, it's still very, it's almost similar, if that makes sense. Whereas going to Japan, it's like,

Yeah.

It's unlike any Asian country I've ever been to. It's not like Bali or Singapore. It's just so different because it's got this unique culture. And that's why people love it, I think, is because there's just such a uniqueness that is, know, it's the contrast to what you're used to um is so different that it's like, oh, there's something about this. And I think going back to the whole comment you made today, which is about challenging yourself to find those cultures or to find those elements of your life.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Mm.

that is different helps you realize how diverse cultures and diverse businesses or ideas or people are that if you don't learn to push yourself to those boundaries, to find those people or to find those areas or what your son's doing, you're always gonna just be in this little small little pocket of a bubble in the world.

Mm.

And that becomes your own whole entire world. And I think that if, what your son is doing is both your son has been doing just traveling and doing on testing in their 20s. That's exactly what you want to do. Right. Because you want to be able to test those boundaries to see that the world is so wide open. There's so much opportunity. And who knows what's going to come up. But I think the challenge for most people is that they're unwilling to step into the fear. I'm sorry. Step into the unknown because of the fear that holds them back.

Hmm. Yeah, totally. And there's so many files that I could open right now, but I'm not, I'm not going to leave it for another podcast to record because, uh, yeah, we've both have firm boundaries to get off at a certain time, but, uh, yeah. And, I, and the theme that one of the things that I was going to, you know, had in mind to talk about if it came up. Is not in keeping with the theme of today. Right. So I just want to keep the reverence with a wonderful experience and everything that you've shared in your family's uh journey. in and of itself and we can explore some other capacities where sometimes the stories that it's not so much the stories we tell ourselves, but the stories others tell us, maybe just as productive or destructive as well too. So we can perhaps look at that at another stage.

Yeah, and I think the lesson here from today that I think we really want to kind of share with everybody is to kind of is one, have an evaluation of the stories that you actually have yourself. I think that's the first part, because we don't often think about it. And until you do, you start to realize that, you know, the second thing you should be thinking about is does that story serve you now and also in the future? And if not, you can actually do the third thing, which is also then create a new story. All right, I hope that's been helpful today and hope this has been a great chapter of Wabi Sabi for you and your life and to kind of create, you know, not necessarily perfections, but imperfection in your life and embrace it rather than trying to fight for perfection. So until next week, talk to you soon. Take care.