Life in all Seasons

Welcome to Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. This is the podcast all about wall life. And today's topic is no different as we start to bundle up here. Me bundling up means I get to wear a jumper or a sweater depending on what part of the world you're from. And Jim is, you know, turning off the heaters and having the fire still going for the last couple of months. So Jim, let's introduce the topic for today.

Yeah. Yeah, thanks Lawrence. and, uh, I was just telling everybody, I was just telling Lawrence, we moved here back in September and within days that he has been on. we've pretty much been constant. Uh, it takes a little bit of getting used to that. So I thought it'd be a very good befitting topic to talk about today. And Jim Rowan wrote a book many years ago called the Four Seasons of Life or along that lines. And what a great topic to be. discussing about today when, we're in seasons where we're currently in the Northern hemisphere, we're in a winter mode, but there's other parts of the world and we have clients, both of those clients from all over the world, Lawrence, and there are different seasons. And I think it's a really good metaphor for what happens in life, right? So you can have the weather aspect of it, which we can certainly talk about, but more about the stages of life, which I thought would be a great topic to unpack today.

Yeah, you know, like the season idea, um, obviously, you know, we live, most of the time, most of us live in a climate that actually has all four seasons. Now some can argue that Australia, well, maybe in Perth, especially in Western Australia only has two seasons, uh, hot or cold. Um, but you know, most of us kind of live in these four seasons, uh, you know, from an environmental point of view, but also to like what you're attributing to that life has four seasons. And I think life can be expanded down to like,

Yeah.

separated to different things. I just came back from a Bitcoin kind of group gathering right now. there's seasons in investing in terms of the ups and downs and the roller coaster of that. And then there's also season in your life, your journey as you go from a baby to child to teenager years to as you get older and there's a season there. We talked about that, you know, as our parents get older and so on and so forth. And there's also season relationships or seasons in, you know, in our work. There's seasons in our business. So I think it could be really applied to almost everything. but it's, I think the one pattern is to recognize that there's a cyclical pattern in our lives that we have to appreciate and we have to acknowledge.

Mm-hmm.

The only differences, I guess, is that certain parts, whether it be investments, relationships, love, kids, or whatever, some seasons are long and some seasons are short and some seasons are more cyclical in terms of it happens faster and some seasons are more drawn out that you don't actually see it. So I think that's important to kind of really think about and apply it as we continue discussing this topic today.

Yeah, I think that's a really good frame, Tom, that you talked about there, Lawrence. And one thing I was just going to say is I lived in Darwin for two years in the top in the tropics and we had two seasons there. It was hot and wet and hot and dry. So that's actually there was no cold. There was no such thing as cold. was yeah, it was just ridiculous. And when we moved back to Melbourne a few years after that, it was just fascinating to be able to have four seasons again. You know, like you do, you appreciate those.

That's right.

And that's just purely from the weather. But I'd love to start off and there's another great book that you might've come across as well called Peaks and Valleys with a guy called Spencer Johnson. Where, you know, talks about the peaks in life and the valleys in life. And I think if we merge both of those and elements of that, I think it could be a really interesting episode that we record today because... you know, when you're in the winter phases of life and let's talk, you know, perhaps we start off there. That may be what feels like the Valley, you know, in some ways that the hardest area and a lot of the times what gets you to the Valley is a set of beliefs, habits, behaviors, and what gets you out of the Valley Valley is also the same. So, you know, like the, the really important thing that I've always held onto is that, um, this too shall pass. Right? So if you're in a, in a winter, It's about a lot of times just holding on and just seeing it through and seeing it out because eventually things will start to change provided that the natural order of things occur. um, what do think we'll start off with winter and then it up to a nice summer at the end.

Yeah, I think winter is the typical pattern of looking at life because this is what most of us kind of think about. unfortunately we kind of have this filter and of that winter is the most challenging part. It's hibernation. I think as you winter typically, and at least in the Northern hemisphere is sort of like the end of the year. you know, usually the financial, or not the financial year, but at the end of calendar year. And oftentimes it's a very reflective point of view of kind of going, has happened and what has transpired. And then you also start the year by still being in winter in the dark, especially where you are. You're just telling me that, you know, sun doesn't come out till eight and kind of goes away at three. Like that's just, man, it's just weird.

Start saying, hey, we're winding down now, so by 3.30. And at the time of recording, if you notice a change in lighting, that's why. It's because we're recording at about, you know, between 3 p.m. in the UK and that'll get dark pretty soon.

Yeah Eh-eh. Yeah, that's crazy. It's hard to imagine. And I think it's challenging because most of time we do get caught up psychologically on all the things that went wrong, all the bad things that are happening in our lives. And we tend not to focus on the good things. And I think there's a downside to good things, which we'll get to when we get to summer. But I think as we reflect upon, as we get to the winters and the hard stuff of winter, I think we also recognize that every winter was preceded by an autumn or fall. And I think that's important because I think the evaluation of your autumn and the fall, I think that's where you can draw the lessons to make sure that you don't possibly repeat or go through those same cycles so you have a different winter next time. And it's something to think about because usually what you're experiencing in winter is usually because of something you did in the autumn or the fall.

Yep. Yep. Great. And that's a, that's a really good point you raised because sometimes, sometimes you find yourself in a winter season of life that was going to happen anyway. It was just the natural process in the water. Right. But then sometimes you might find yourself in those situations where it's, it's basically, you know, it's out of your control. And, and, and, and, so I think what your point brought up for me specifically was it's about the preparation. It's about identifying what you could have done that contributed to that. And then what you can do to ensure that the winter either is not as long or you can endure it with, with a lot, you know, basically a lot better than, than just holding your breath and hoping it'll pass it pass all the way through.

Yeah. And I think the main difference is we've been talking through this podcast, a lot of common theme is about being able to control the controllables, right. And also being not being caught up in the things that you have no control over. And so I think when we talk about seasons here, we need to distinguish two types of seasons, right? One we can control and one we can't. So when we talk about, uh, well, the weather, we can't control the weather, right? We can't control, uh, the weather, how, how long of a winter it is or how short the winter is. And so, but in life though, we do have some sort of control. I think. there's probably parts of it that you can't control because maybe it's seasonal because you're in a business that is seasonal. For example, if you are, I don't know, let's just say you are in the, you know, something to do with the beach. Well, you know, being in Portugal in the winter time, or if you live in the Argarve down south of Portugal, yeah, it's probably not the best amount of season. Like that's not the best time to make money for you. You might have to close for the winter season and then you, but you have to make it up in the summertime. Like, so those circumstances in your business. you're subjected to the season things that you can't control. just the way life is. But if you are in a business where you can control some of these things, you can shorten your winter. You don't have to extend this winter longer than it actually has to be. And I think that's really important to kind of recognize that if you have created a business or a career or life where you've afforded your ability to have some sort of responsibility and control, you can shorten that winter if you choose to. And I think I believe that most of us have some sort of control in our lives that we kind of extend our winter longer than we really should.

It's a good point. And sometimes it's also about perspective too, because they say this a lot in the UK and I don't know whether it's just to make themselves feel better, but they basically said there's no such thing as bad weather, just incorrect clothing and footwear preparation. so there's a logic to that because, you know, some people will see the winter and snow and complain and hibernate and other people go skiing.

True? True, true.

Right. So it's about your perspective. Yeah. Right. So that's it. But that's, but that's the whole thing. You know, it's about appreciating. Okay. How can I make the best of this season? And so if your business, as you said, relies on, if you're running a ski lodge, then you're going to make a large chunk of the revenue for your business in the ski season. And if you're running a ice cream shop on the beach, you're going to generate the majority of your income in, weather and times that are more suitable to that. So it's about, I guess, appreciating and acknowledging the trends, but then also reframing it and saying, okay, what's great about his, where's the opportunity in this winter?

Well, there's opportunities. Let's look at a ski hill, as you mentioned, like a ski hill can really make most of their money in the ski. And it's still determined somewhat by how much snowfall you actually have. So then what do they do? They will invest in snowmaking machines, for example, which then is changing your circumstances a little bit, right? Is it the best? No, but it's going to enhance or elongate that season a little longer, depending on, despite the weather, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

But also too, on the flip side, sure, the summertime is there's no snow. Well, a lot of these ski hills now have transformed to summer ski hills to hiking or biking trails, you know? And now you created a whole different form of recreational sport because these, I mean, these countries like in the Alps, you know, the Switzerland and they're beautiful in the summer with the lakes and everything else. Canada is the same thing. And it's the, know, or they could have just sat there. for six, eight months of the year have no one coming through, no, what they decided is like, we need to somehow create something here over time to actually attract people here in the summertime and the springtime too as well. And that's what they have done. And I think we can think laterally sometimes and we just gotta be able to foresee not just accept the circumstances, how do we do that? A good friend of mine, Taki, he has lived by this mantra, which is to, seek, chase summer, right? That's, that's his mantra. So basically he was basically he had, know, he had five kids, but he would travel the world. And why would he travel the Because he would basically always chase summer. He's like, I refuse to live in winter if I don't actually have to. And so basically he would just move from Australia summer to, you know, you know, maybe United States or European summer, and then go back to Australian summer. And he was always, maybe most of the time he's spending summertime. So there is ways to, I don't know, quote unquote, hack your way through something like that so that you have an extended period of time where it's long summers, very minimal winter exposure. You can do that. Now that takes resources, time, guts, know, risk, a whole bunch of things, but you know, it's possible because people have done it all the time.

Okay. So what, what you're saying through there, there's a couple of things that if you're in the, in the thick of winter, it's metaphorically speaking, there's a part where you go, okay, there's this feeling the psychologists talk about in terms of permanence thinking that it will last forever and it doesn't have to, right. And, naturally as time will go on, things will change and things will adapt. However, what I loved about that is you can ask yourself, as said, as Tuckett is like, what, what's in my control and what do I,

Mm-hmm.

If I'm creating an intentional life and that I'm creating a life by design, what is really, really important to me? What will I tolerate? What can I change? And what will I not accept? And there's people who chase the ski slopes as well, who go from, who do the absolute opposite, who just basically follow the seasons around and they love the thing and they've never seen a summer. And so it just comes down to what floats your boat and

That's right.

Asking questions about what is it that I really enjoy about the specific season in life and how can I make the most of that?

Australians are well known for that, right? Like if you go to Vancouver, I mean, if you know, most of the ski instructors and ski ski people are almost Australians, right? So it's, you know, there's Australia Day and, you know, in Whistler and you're gonna see a lot Aussie and then what happens? Well, they, you know, if they're a ski instructor, you go chase winter. So like you said, in when it's summertime in, in Canada, they're going to go back to Australia and New Zealand and you know, go.

They're all Aussies.

Go chase the winter there because that's the passion. And again, like it's just the, so one, I think there's two things. One is either you change your perspective, as you mentioned, so you go, okay, well, listen, I'm in snow. What can I do? I can go skiing. They accept the fact. So you just got to accept your circumstances, like the perspective, change this perspective of what you're going through to be something a little bit more positive. Or you flip the other side is going, okay, well, how can I change my circumstances by actually moving or changing or getting out of that or adding something to that, right? I think those are two both valid things to either get out of winter, either shorten the winter by removing yourself out of winter or to change your perspective and go, well, how can I get the maxima? How do I maximize this winter while I'm

Yep. Great. Awesome. so we've, we've endured a winter, uh, whether by choice appreciation or just toughen it out. And then we look forward to spring. So what does spring represent? Okay. You want to go back?

Yeah, let me, sorry, let me go back to this from an applicable, something I just thought of, right, so from an application point of view, right? So in business, in winter is usually when something is not working, something's broken and we have to fix it. And so what you can do from an acceptance point of view is from an application in your business, maybe something broke and things are not as good as what it could be. Well, instead of being a victim to the circumstances,

Sure.

use this time when things are slow to really build the structures, maybe the systems, maybe your procedures, maybe hiring better team so that you're prepared for spring and summer, right? So that now you're investing within your business to maybe look through your business and going, okay, what did we learn from our previous cycle that got us here in the first place? Maybe we didn't do enough marketing. Maybe we didn't make the right choices. Maybe we didn't do the right hiring. Maybe we didn't actually put enough effort into our planning. and strategy. now I'm in winter rather than just hibernating and into the hole and don't think about it anymore. Maybe this is the time to actually map out the plan for the next year. So you actually use this time because it's going slow anyways, right? Things are not moving that fast. So now you can actually use this time to actually work. I remember when I was first started as a chiropractor, I mean, I wasn't busy when the first, you know, first three months, you know, I had plenty of time. but I was gonna be there anyways, I'm working from 7.30 to 12 o'clock and then two o'clock to seven, I didn't have patience all the time, so what did I do? Luckily, think the luck I have was that I didn't actually have social media when I first started, right? So the only thing that really kinda kept you, really, and the internet was quite slow back then. So really what you focused on was like, okay, well, what can I do to grow my business? know, that might be making phone calls or I remember like really spending time to like map out a, you know, a health talk or like mapping out strategies that, know, write down all these plans I used to have or goal setting or whatever I need, you know, use that time. Well, that's hibernation time, right? Because when you're busy, you don't have time to do any of that, right? But when you're not busy, you can.

And yeah, you highlighted a great point there too, is that the lag time, because for you to get into a winter, there was probably a lag time of when things that you were doing dropped off or you weren't doing, and it may have led to a downtime or a winter time. And by the same token, as you enter exit out of it, you may be doing all these things that you're talking about. And there may be a lag time before you start seeing the result or the reward for effort. But this is an opportunity, a great opportunity to start reflecting, thinking, changing, I guess, reading the reality of the situation and not digging your head into the sand and saying, okay, what's going on? Is being upfront and honest with yourself and saying, here's where we're actually in winter right now. What can we do to cycle out of this?

That's right. And everything always has its moments. And I think, you know, spring is going to come like, and that's the thing, what you said earlier, like this shall pass, right? This too will pass. And that's one of the best lines ever, because just knowing that it creates hope, just knowing that also creates that this, you just got to endure this part. Well, while you're enduring, you may as well use that as preparation, right? Preparing yourself for the future, right? Preparing yourself that spring is going to come around the corner. but you can either use spring to prepare, which then delays summer or shortens your summer, or you can use winter to prepare to allow spring to flourish some of these things you're preparing, and then summer becomes a longer summer because you can actually learn to harvest it. And I think it really comes down to how you see the world. And so, you know, that little switch in mindset and the little switch in your head to really kind of focus in on, you know, leveraging your winter, that's how you shorten winter. because then you're actually appreciating the winter and utilizing that to help you have a better summer.

Great. Awesome. So, uh, let's talk about spring. So what, what, are some of the great parts of spring and what are some of the key leads of spring that can lead to a really good summer?

Well, I mean, if you think traditionally, springtime is usually the time to kind of plant seeds, you know, laying foundation for things to grow. And I think that, you know, when you're, your summer's harvesting, and that's when you reap the rewards. And springtime is actually when the work gets done. Because you're out of the stage of where things are bogging you down, it's not too cold to work anymore. And the wintertime is always like, it's too hard, too cold to work. So therefore, you're preparing. And now springtime is actually when the work gets done. I feel like springtime is when you really are preparing and leading the foundation, the framework to succeed. And that's the hard part, right? Because everybody wants to jump the summer. Everybody wants the rewards. And the reality is that springtime is actually when the work is done. And so think of like summer is more like when you're actually competing in an event, like just say the Olympics or whatever. And springtime is all the preparation that leads up to that. right? All the work, everything else done. Or maybe if you're thinking in investing investment terms, it's like, well, summer is when it is, you know, your particular stock or whatever is hitting all time highs. But the springtime is when you're actually accumulating when everybody says, don't do this, this is the dumbest idea, right? This is when you're actually buying and investing in into the thing that you actually believe in, in whatever stock or you know, whatever commodity you really want to kind of get into. And you get to reward, it gets a re-reward. But if you didn't get into it in the springtime, you're not gonna get it in, you're buying at the highest point in the summertime. And so you're gonna get re-rewards because of what you lay down the seeds in the springtime. Again, these are not, remember, I just wanna remind you from a timeframe perspective, seasonal isn't annually. The seasonal could be every three to four years, right? So cycles, especially when it comes to investment, right? And Bitcoin land, for example, is every four years, right? And sometimes like in also in the stock market is also very seasonal. It's not like based on January to December. It is very sometimes seasonal. Sometimes it's really great in terms of it's a tech stock boom for a little while. And then there's a commodity stock boom for a little while. So there's always cycles. And it's about understanding what cycle you're in and how can you leverage the most of based on the cycle that you're currently in at the moment. So springtime to me is about doing the work. What are your thoughts on the spring?

Yeah, I love spring because to me, spring represents new possibilities, new options, energy, enthusiasm, you know, and the first sign of momentum. And which is, as you said, around work as well too. I also love it because it's the time where you don't need the overcoat and the jacket. could just decrease. So it's moving towards that. you kind of, you're getting a sense of where you're moving towards and you're progressing too. So, you know, we've recorded an episode previously about investing ahead of the curve. And I think you're right. This is the area and the time where you do that, where you're doing that in preparation of what's coming. You're planting your seeds, you're, you're investing in your business, you're buying extra stock, you're whatever it is. It's just, you have to pay the price. And here's the period where you're paying the price for the outcome. And so sometimes it's a way before it's, it's a faith play. It's a head of when you're going to see anything, but there's a natural process. an order that has to happen. And for me, that's what spring represents. It's the time where you get things done by preparing.

Yeah, it's the lag time you talked about, right? You know, if you want, let's say from a fitness point or for a physique point of view and you want a six pack abs, well, like if that's come summertime when you have that six pack abs, well, you're going to have to sacrifice in the spring, right? You're going to have to build a workout routine and put in the work and build those muscles. This is when you have to really cut down those carbs and really work on those proteins and, you know, sacrifice some of the meals and calorie intakes and so on and so forth to really get that six pack abs. mean, traditionally that's what you're have to do. This is where you're gonna have to put in the work. But you do have this sense of like, okay, winter's over and it's getting warmer. It's not totally warm yet, but you can take off that jacket, you feel little bit more mobile, you feel bit more free and you start to put in the work. But the thing is that the reward's not there. So if you're a person who like looking for instant gratification, like this is the hardest time for you. Right, this is a really hard time for instant gratification people because they're like looking like, but I'm not doing all this work. It's been a week. Why isn't this working yet? And I think, you know, the rewards are going to come when you've been stacking these, you know, habits and rituals there to kind of create the energy that you need to be rewarded in the summertime. So this is the hardest part I find. It's, you know, it's no surprise to me that this is your favorite time of year because you're a grinder. Like you're a person who just

Yeah. Yep.

grinds and you love the grind and this is where you, this is where Jim magically, you know, starts to like separate himself from the rest because he's able to put his head down while everybody sort of just thinking, ah, isn't that great? It's warm, it's coming. Jim's already off. think Jim's already 10 steps ahead of you.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's funny you say that actually, I hadn't thought about that for myself. So thank you. I always, when I did run, you know, I used to do a lot of running. I always used to make up time going up hills, right? For that same reason, right? Is because that's when everybody's just, I don't know whether it's some of my best training I do during the winter months and the spring months, because that's the process where people are going, I'll wait till summer and then I'll start. Or I'll wait until January. I'm like, no, dude, I'm, I'm, I'm going in the deepest, crappiest weather out there because I know nobody else is doing that. And that just feeds into a psychology. So yeah, you kind of plugged me into something there, Lawrence, but, I, I appreciate that. But, but you're right though. It's, it's, it's doing it not when you feel like it, it's when it has to get done. And there's a discipline and a process and an order about when things need to get done. If you want to chase a set. And this is the area that I found too. Aside from the fact that separates the people who put effort in consistently and not is the people. This is the time where a lot of people self-sabotage because they're like you just said, there's an impatience, you know, that you wanting an outcome. This is the time where people plant a tomato plant and dig it up in three, you know, three days to see if it's progressing. And it's one of those things where you do the work and yes, there's time, there's time component and lag and things have to develop along the way and you have to be patient. You do the work and also be patient at the same time, which can feel counterintuitive. But this is where I see most people will self-severed.

Yeah, I find it really hard. I think it is getting harder and harder for people nowadays to really be patient. And time is a really weird concept, right? I was just watching this video yesterday, showing my kids around compound interest. know, it's just the understanding of compound interest. And they were just talking about if you start investing at, you know, say 17 and, you know, that's typical math and, you know, over, you know, a 30 year period of time, you'll be a millionaire, blah, blah, right? it's just like, it's harder to get to your first 100,000. But once you get to your first 100,000, all of a sudden, like it just exponentially multiplies at a very rapid pace. let's just say from 100,000 to a million is like seven years or something versus where it took you 12 or maybe 20 years to kind of get to 100,000, right? Based on a certain amount of thing you put in. But you know, whatever the timeframe, even that though, right? It seems like, oh, wow, that's amazing. And then you look at the timeframe, like, wow, seven years? That's so long. And so people perception of time, feel like, depending on how young or old, especially the younger you are, like seven years is a long time, right? As we get older, seven years does not seem as long, because we've experienced many multiples of seven years. So I think that's why it gets harder. And second of all, we live in a world where information is faster and faster, right? Like you're receiving information so quick.

Yeah.

Whereas, you you remember a time when there was no internet and then we remember the time where we're downloading a picture and that would take a minute to like for it to kind of come through, right? And now we're, you know, complaining that this video, you know, isn't uploading fast enough, you know, or downloading fast enough, you know, or watching Netflix at wall. What, is this circle thing? You know, and yeah, like a stream like, wow, what, what is going on here? You know, and you know, I send you an email and you're like, it hasn't arrived yet. You know, it's like, you know, it took.

This is str-

two seconds and it's like, oh, that's way too slow. we, cause we live in this world and it's, it's getting worse, right? Cause we're expecting faster and faster responses. And, um, you know, with the immersion of AI, even like now Google search seems slow because like, I search something on Google, I have to then search for something in Google, then have to look for the relevant link to find the answer. Whereas chat GPT is like, give me the answer for this. And chat's like, this is the answer. You're like, okay. Like it's literally sure.

Yeah. Give it, yeah. Okay.

like a few second faster or 10 second faster, but it's faster. And I think that's only going to improve. You know, maybe there'll be a point where I can see where I think it in the answers in my glasses and it tells me exactly what the answer because I thought it, you know, that that's not too unconceivable to think that that that's going to be a potentially in our future. So because of the reference of the how fast the world is moving, we also expect the same in response in terms of are where we gotta get to summer. And so I think it gets harder and harder. I don't know if you agree with me. I feel like it's harder and harder for people to accept spring is a natural and important step. Now it may not be as hard for you, and I'm not pointing you as, people like you who love the grind, who love like spring, who are just built for the spring, because there are people, certain people like, I can read you like this, right? Like I knew that spring is just you, right?

Oh, my son said today, dad, you're built for war. I I totally get it.

Yeah, because you're just built for the longevity. You're a train, right? A train is one of those things that can just, it's a diesel, right? It's a diesel. It just grinds away slowly. You don't have to go fast, but you'll get there. And I think that's, I think that's, it's a very admirable trait, which is very difficult to navigate, especially in today's world, because most of us are growing up, especially the next generation below us, is that they're, expecting like instant results. You know, they're looking for certain things and we're wired that way because everything else in our world is wired for that. So I feel like it's getting harder and harder.

Yeah, there's actually some man. I, my brain went to about 55 different places as you were talking about that, Lauren. So, um, the bamboo plant is the classic example of this, where it does, feels like it does nothing, nothing, nothing. And then over a period of a short amount of time shoots up like 14 feet. So to me, that's the process of, like you said, compound interest and the, the exponential nature of things. And they sometimes don't happen in the order of what's going on.

you

You're 100 % correct. I think as a society, we're becoming conditioned to expect quicker responses. And I counter that interestingly with, know, when you can see AI companies and tech stocks exponentially increase, you then got one of the greatest investors of all time, Warren Buffett, basically saying that the stock market is really the transfer of wealth from the impatient to the patient. So there's that element you've got to counter with that, right? But then when you talk about When you talk about the grind, what I've learned about myself too is I used to be a person who used to do like get really intense and all in and then I'd find there'd be periods, it was a lot more of a stop, not stop stop, but an interval based stuff where I'd just go really, really hard. But I realized it took toll, a toll on me. So that grind, that slow grind is along the line of Kelp Newport's slow productivity. which is just, I've tried to find a gear that is sustainable for me and I can just keep going, chip away, chip away, chip away. So I've worked to find a model or a level or a gear that I could operate at, at a sustainable level that may not be my top gear, but because I don't get burnt out, I've dropped down by 10, 15%. And I can actually keep going for a lot longer than I previously did, but that's just self awareness and self regulation that I've had to learn over time.

Hmm. And this all comes down to awareness of yourself and it is an evaluation of yourself. As you listeners and viewers are watching or listening to this is that you have to take a self evaluation yourself and knowing where your default mode is. typical example is yesterday I had a workout that I had to do and I did this previous workout eight weeks ago and it sort of like a retest. And so I knew what my previous score was and I knew what I had to beat in a way and it was a 20 minute AMRAP what we'll call it, four goblet squat jumps and eight kettlebell swings and then like 16 skips. And then was just like, how many times can you do it? So I knew my previous score. And so what I in my mind is like, okay, how do I beat this? And how do I, I wanna make sure at least I'm plus one of my previous score, right? It doesn't matter how much more. So then you time it. typical fashion, I'm very sort of not as patient as Jim. I went in. too fast, too quick, you know? Like I was already halfway through my goal and it was only seven and a half minutes in. I was 20 minutes, so I'm like well ahead. I'm like, man, well I started slowing down. I forgot about the first time I did it that I was on this pace and then I just basically as I was nearing the last five minutes, I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna make this, but actually was fast enough, like the key I was fast enough that I knew I would finish this no problem, but it was more like,

Did you blow up? Did you blow up? You

Am I just gonna barely beat the last score or am I gonna really surpass that? And it's funny how your brain just goes, I was just slowing right down and I was just like, my back was giving out, like my grip was leaving, I'm like, oh my God. And that's where my fault is. I go usually way too fast and I can't sustain it for long term, but that's my modus operandi. I go fast. When something's like I need to make a decision, I'm usually really fast to go, boom, I can make things happen.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

where my default problem is, is usually I don't sustain long runs for very long time. I'm not great at pacing, I'm not great at finishing things. that is in everything that I almost do in my life, even in paddle, like today we were winning and I just can't finish. I cannot finish the point, I can't finish the match and I end up losing and it's so frustrating because no matter who my partner is, we just can't.

Yeah, right. Right.

finish and they always somehow let them crawl right back. And, uh, and then they just beat us at the end. And it's like, and it's, it's a weird momentum. So, but while I'm saying is that the summary of that is, is that we have to recognize like what our defaults are. I think because you need to know what your natural tendency is because you almost need to compensate for the other. Right. So for Jim, maybe like he knows he can sustain this long run and slow long grind.

Yeah, it's just free.

but there's some faults in that. We've been praising Jim and said, but there's faults in that, right? So the faults, don't know, Jim, you want to talk about your faults. The fault is sometimes he doesn't make quick enough decision, right? Or opportunities pass by him.

Oh, definitely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, there's certain things I'm exceptionally decisive in, but like, I'll give you an example with it in exercise. Like, I'm doing 75 hard now, I'm day 50 odd. Now, I honestly don't want to be doing this right now. And this is just, like, I don't want to be doing it. Like, I did it and I'm like, I've even said to Patel, I said, what a stupid idea. it's just, it's momentum now, right? And I'm... This and even I even went to jujitsu and I've gone to the joint of the gym today and I'm like This is a ridiculous workout. I just don't want to do it and even to when you know I'm training and my instructor said Hey, how you going? said honestly, I don't want to be here. I'm just in that winter phase But he goes maybe you should have two or three weeks off and I go no, dude You don't know me if I do two or three weeks off That's not gonna work. I'm better off coming here and giving you

Yeah.

what I got and if that's this 20 % that I just know myself that when something kicks when I get to spring when I turn around the corner that grind that and this is where it basically like you get you get it's not always enjoyable right and I'm in the phase right now where it's not fun at all where I'd much rather be doing something else but I know in myself that I have to do that I have to keep doing the work because

Hmm. Hmm.

My performance will drop 40 or 50 that will increase 40, 50 % within a week just because I just kept going. Right. So that's the part of it. The part of it for me is not so much that I, I, um, you know, when you talk about the negatives for me, the negatives for me is that I do that and I don't build in rest. That's the mistake that I've got off and made is that I have the temptation that, okay, I can keep doing this. I,

Yep.

by default, I'll just keep doing it. And I suddenly got to go, Hey dude, um, you need to switch off now, or that's the mistake that I have made that I've had to really work hard against.

Yeah, exactly. And I have clients like that, know, know, like literally we just were evaluating our year and they're like, you know what? I haven't had a holiday since like 2020, you know, 23. I'm like, wait a second. How on earth did that happen? Like, how did I, how did that slip through me actually? Cause I'm a big component of that. I'm like, wow, you, you know, that's a totally discussion, it's like recognizing. I remember one time I, uh, I was coaching a client. This is going back like 10 years ago. And, uh, and remember him saying, it's like, I haven't taken a holiday in 10 years. I'm like,

Yeah, yeah. Whoa.

How on earth is that even possible? Right? Like you have not taken a holiday in 10 years. And I just could not believe it. just, I couldn't fathom. I was taking holidays four times a year at a minimum. And that's sort of like that, you know, my go-to and to not. So literally if it's, know, if we count, you know, strategic, I've taken 40 holidays and this guy has taken zero. Like it just doesn't, like my brain just couldn't comprehend. And that's the grinder, right? So sometimes the grinders that they don't know how to take the rest. But.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'll come back. want to say pick another point that would you made there is like, you're in the grind. But notice that there's seasons within a season. And so the season within what Jim just sort of said about his work I was Yeah, he's in winter like overall like right now in the 75 half day 50. You know, it is it's a sucky grind at this moment. It's like almost like you're you're not even you're kind of close to the end but not really. you're gonna just just pass the halfway point. This is what I call the middle rounds. I hate the middle rounds in every exercise but

Yeah, yeah, suck.

You know, that's why they, but he's actually what you, what's really good about what you said though, is that you took the season within the season. So which means like, at least you showed up though, right? But you modulated your workout to go, Hey, you know what? I'm in winter in this mode right now. I can't give you a hundred percent. I know that, but I'm also recognizing that I can give you 70%, but the 70 % is my a hundred percent today, today. You know, you don't need to go full in summer mode, give you a hundred percent on a winter day because on the winter season, because that would actually probably screw you up and actually probably make you miss a whole bunch of days because you hurt yourself. And that modulation that is that where I used to go wrong, you you say, you know, my mental attitude was like, you showed up, you give it a hundred percent, right? And it's like, there's moments of when you go, why did I do that? Like, what was that for? Just so I got a couple of seconds off of my time. It's like, and then now I can't work out for the next week or two weeks because I hurt my, I busted up my back.

Yeah. it. Yeah. Yeah.

Like is that that's not worth it, but it's very difficult to modulate and people who grow into CrossFit, met this guy yesterday, bumped into him and I used to see him across. He was like, I go, uh, you know, I don't see you anymore. goes, yeah, I'm just getting fat. I'm like, Oh, like what happened? He goes, I just couldn't do it anymore. I just like, you know, it's just, they weren't doing technique work and you know, you know, it's just, it's just not good doing like as fast as you can. Like you do know, like you have the ability to slow down and not do like as fast as everybody else, but human nature.

Yeah. Yeah.

overrides us because you see the next guy doing it, because well, if he can do it, I gotta do it. And it takes a lot of humility. And I know recognize that a lot of humility to be able to go, you know what, I'm not feeling that good today. I'm not just lower my weight today. You know, I'm just gonna go a little bit less today. That takes a lot of humility to do that. And I have to learn over the years to figure that out. That's not easy to do because your ego's in the way and you're constantly thinking about.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no.

What other people are thinking of me like me just doing this little tiny little weight here. But the reality is that, you know, that's really difficult. I think that that happens in life and business. We get caught up in the perception of others and how you compare to others rather than going, this is my lane. This is what I'm doing and I should be focused on that. And that's a very difficult challenge for people that have to get through.

Yeah, two quick things I want to say before we move to summer. Yay. Is number one magical word that was shared with me to explain all that is the word calibration and that I've taken that one. So I calibrate my energy and effort to what and that's been a game changer. So thank you for the person who shared that word with me and experience. And number two, this plotter has his yet next year planned and there are multiple breaks in there too long. She'll be happy to know. So if I don't do that, my default will be, I'll just keep doing it.

Hmm.

So there's the discipline of me of planning it. And I've pre-planned it from that. I usually do it in November. But when it went through, I realized going through COVID where we were just, I wasn't thinking about, like you weren't thinking about it. And I just kept going and going and going. I just got cooked. And so, you know, there's only been two times that that has happened. That was then and a few years earlier. So I realized the importance of breaks because I can just keep going and going. So it's about, it's a double white lines I've got to set up against my own nature.

Yeah.

to help me.

Yeah. Well, let's head into summer. So as you start to do all the planning, you've done all the hard work now and now it's summertime. What does summer mean to you?

Summer to me is just appreciation. You've got beautiful days. You've got the things that you've been working towards, whether it could be time, freedom, enjoying experiences. Your business could be in a boom period and you're seeing the maximum reward for that. You could be busy and very profitable. All the things that you've invested in are coming to fruition. That to me is what summer is. It's also about fun and enjoyment and yeah, appreciation of all the things that you've put into things to get this outcome. That's what summer represents to me. Bobby. Yep.

I think summer is also that celebration, right? It's the ability to celebrate. And this is when you take profit, you know, from an investment point of view, this is where you reap the harvest. And I think, you know, summer to me, I have a tendency of summer, of overindulging in summer, to be honest, in business and life. So what I mean by that is like, you get cocky, you know, your ego kind of bloats up a little bit and go, man, aren't I great?

Okay. Yep. Yep.

You know, like, aren't I amazing? Like, look at this, look at this, all of what I created. And you take the foot off the gas. I think that's when I've fallen into that trap a lot. You know, when things are going really well, you go like, all of this is me and all this stuff, all this hard work. And you forget to go back into the gym to continue doing the work. So you slip up a little bit, you take a little bit of reward, you eat an extra dessert or...

Yeah Yeah. Yeah.

You know, you just think, ah, you don't need to go to the gym today. You know, I've done this hard work and, that's so easy to fall back into that trap. And then, but again, again, with lag time, lag time also has this positive of, you know, uh, of obviously delayed gratification, but also has that delayed response as well to recognize that you're not going to see the foot off the gas or that extra, you know, donut that you ate or, know, all those types of things and indulgence that you do that you're not going to feel it until. a couple of weeks later, a couple of months later and down the track and you start to realize like what's going on though? Why is the, why is the business wheels falling apart and why, is this happening to you? And that usually leads into, you know, fall and then winter. And so I think I've fallen into that trap many times where, you know, you, you, uh, you, do you take it for granted and you, uh, you try to reap too much rewards. Um, how does that apply to you? You know, being a, you know, a diesel or a grinder, like, do you find that you don't? You don't fall into that trap as much because you probably put your head down

Uh, it's, it's, it's a great point. You, uh, I love, um, my biggest thing was not celebrating enough, right? That was the one of my first coaches. Uh, that was one of the things that he really stressed for me was to say, unless you find a reward that you, you can appreciate to you, it's always going to come across as work. All right. So that was a really big learning for me. So that the I had to really stretch into the celebration part, which is what you talking about. I, I find that, um, yeah, I, that's the part I, I don't necessarily fall off too much over summer. Cause a lot of the things that I would do most of the year I kept doing, I just, there'd be a consistency. Um, but to me, that was the biggest part of the celebration and, was not celebrating enough. So that when I was in the middle of winter, uh, when I'm like, what's the point. Right. So that's, that's what would happen to me is that if I realized that if I had more high points and celebrations, I could go, yeah, see that, that period that that's why you're doing that. And, um, yeah, that that's the biggest learning that I've had to do where over time I've had to celebrate more to rewire the part of my brain that just says, what's this all for? What's this all about? Right. And it can't just be about, so, so for me, A lot of my rewards, I'm very good at delayed gratification and an internal point of reference, right? So I'm actually really comfortable with that. And so I gained great joy and pride in going, Hey, here's an opportunity I set up for this person or that person, whatever. But the growth for me was to ensure I celebrate my own victories. And that's, that's, that's been a journey in and of itself. So, um, yeah, so really good question. Thank you for putting me on the spot and make me. reflect on that, but that's that's I think what I do. That's that's where I'm up. Yeah.

Yeah, that typically happens a lot. And that's why I ask is that the downside of, of a grinder through summer is that they don't actually stop and they just continue moving forward. And it's like, oh yeah, well, yeah, great. Okay. Move on to the next thing. And, and I've been through that too, as well. I've done both cycles of like overindulging or the other part where it's just, oh yeah, that was good. I'll put next. Like I'm just focused on the next thing. And, uh, and there's definitely periods of my time, probably when I was a little bit more younger, I would definitely do that because it's like, you know, you can't stop.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.

You got to can't stop just going to keep going got to keep this momentum. I don't want to lose it. And so there's an but again, like with anything is like you can overdo one side or the other. And if you don't take the time to celebrate, you don't realize what you're doing all this for. But if you take too much time to celebrate, you also lose the momentum that you just built. Especially this is especially bad for you know, a startup or someone who you wave your company is just getting going. You know, and this is like, And this is the, again, this is a different season. So if you're a season of like, you are a 20 year old and early 30 year old, and you're building your business, you kind of don't want to stop in the summertime. Like you kind of just read the reward, but put your head back down and go do the work because you're trying to compound that interest, right? We talked about that compounding, you know, the work and, at the same time, like, for, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not hate to generalize a whole generation here, but the reality is that that you we have a generation that's, you know, upcoming that is really more about this work life balance, right? And we, think we overabuse this term of all those work life balance. And there's these expectation now, which is because of comparison of everybody else is like, we need to have more work life balance now. You know, you know, we don't want to be grinding through life, but, but there's a set, there's a problem with that. You know, I find anyways, and this is my opinion. So, you know, you can disagree or disagree to this, but.

Hmm.

I think there is a downside to that which we have to recognize is that you create this so-called work-life balance. You actually then create also the sacrifice there is that you lose the ability to grow exponentially because you're kind of stopping and starting, stopping and starting because you create this work-life balance a little bit too young or too early in your stage of growth. And so... Oftentimes people, I mean if you really think about it, the people who talk about work-life balance are usually people who already grinded their way through to the top and they're at the peak summer and they look back and go, man, I should have enjoyed this bit more. So then they espouse these kind of philosophy down to the grinder stage. But if you kind of reflect back and going, would they have actually created the thing that they created if they did work-life balance at the beginning? No one really knows. Exactly.

Yep, yep. Yeah, hindsight's a wonderful thing. Hindsight's a wonderful thing, yeah.

Exactly. You know what mean? And I think we have to, I'm not saying you shouldn't have work-life balance. I mean, this is not what I'm saying at all. But what I'm do saying though is that I think you do have to, like I always tell like young 20 year olds and 30 year, early 30 years, like this is the time to go after it. Like this is the time you go at, go get it, right? Because you have all the energy, you have all the youth, you have all the risk tolerance to fail because how far you've actually come. Like you haven't really. done enough that if you started from zero, it's not like you can't come back up here, right? Whereas if you're in your 40s, usually because you got mortgage, you got a family, you got a, and if you fall, I'm not saying you can't climb back up, but it's just a harder road to climb, right? And so your tolerance or risk tolerance is going to start to shift comparatively to here. So in your 20s and 30s, 30s, that's the time to go after because it could, if you put in the energy now, it changes your life trajectory of where you could be. in the next, you know, for the next rest of your life, really. And you can make your you make your own luck at this point. But if you don't, then it's now you're slowly grinding and then you're going to be in a position is like, I don't know what I'm doing here.

Yeah. Yeah. Good point. So really what I'm hearing is make sure you enjoy summer, but don't go over the top. Uh, as Spencer Johnson says in the book, um, peaks and valleys, it's what you do in the winter will determine how quickly you get out of winter. And what you do in the summer will determine how quickly you're to be in the winter. And, know, many a times you see people and I certainly did when we were in practice who would spend 11 years getting to a beach physique and then within a month they're back to where they were and they're going to spend 11 months getting back to that point. So the net effect is you're not really any further ahead. You've just basically sacrificed 11 months for one month's enjoyment. that's that we used to say that all the time. So yeah, that's what I'm taking out of that is like, enjoy it, make sure you celebrate, appreciate the joy of it and use it a way of keeping moving forward as opposed to going back to zero.

Yeah. And how you can do that is like move the needle, move the goalposts, you know, change your goals, reset things because you got there quicker. Um, otherwise you just get into this loop and then you already made it. Like I, my mistake, not mistake, but my first, you know, five, three to five years in practice and career was I hit all my life goals. in three, four or five years. And I'm like, now what do I do? And for the next five years, I just kind of floated because I didn't, I didn't reset my goals, you know? Um, and I was in a

Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I was from financially, I was in summer, but like life fulfillment, I was in winter because it just, wasn't really kind of thriving for me and I was searching and I felt lost. Um, and so I think it's important to kind of always kind of reset and reevaluate and recheck.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, that's it. That's a really good point there actually about the multimodal areas of life. And you could be kicking the lights out in one area, but still feel unfulfilled. And if that was the case, if that wasn't the case, then you wouldn't have a whole lot of high net worth or corporate types leaving the environment to go out and set up nurseries because it joins up and it gives them more joy because they're doing something fulfilling. Right. Awesome.

That's right, that's right. And it just depends on how you look at the life, your life cycle. And again, it's just different types of cycle and depending on what you want and what sacrifice you're willing to make. So as we head into this last phase here, we're gonna get into fall or autumn, depending on what part of the world you like to call this. What is fall and autumn for you?

Okay. Yeah Um, it's a beautiful season. I always love the colors, the change, the preparation. I think fall or autumn represents to me, okay. Uh, the situations are changing. How are you going to prepare? What are you going to do to be ready for the situation, the challenges that come ahead and how do you anticipate those? What buffers do you build in? I know my, my parents, uh, being post war, uh, European migrants would. This is the period where they'd prepare the stocks in, like they'd put things in and then be reserves. If ever we're going into winter, they've got the stews and they've got the freezer all stocked and ready to go. So they were prepared for that as a process. And to me it was anticipate what's coming and be ready.

You're yeah, so absolutely for me like the the fall and autumn is It's really looking ahead of what's coming and being prepared like a spring is preparing for summer With optimism fall and autumn is preparing for minimizing Damage I guess that's how probably say yeah risk mitigation is like exactly. It's like

Yeah, yeah, yeah, risk mitigation. Yeah, risk mitigation.

Okay, like this is what's going to happen. Like you can see it coming. It's like, you're almost like seeing the, like that's coming soon. Like you can see a storm coming. Like, okay, how am going to prepare for this? And I think what you do here will definitely minimize the impact of winter. Um, it would definitely minimize the, the, the amount of pain you might be going through, um, by mitigating. Cause you already know that the seasons change and the tides changing, you know, something has shifted in the business, something has shifted in your life and you're going to have to go through some storms. Um, and you bunker down a little bit, but you don't have to. hunker down totally because you don't know it's going to be that bad. But you do need to be prepared. You can't just put your head in the sand, just go like, it's still summer here. you know, like, and still hoping like, oh, it's still good Indian summer, you know, and hope for the hope that everything's gonna still still be fine. I think that's that could be a real real shocker one day. But I think is recognizing there's a transitional period of time. And you need to kind of

Yeah. Yeah.

you know, be prepared for some of the downs that are actually about to happen. And it is mitigating, minimizing the risk, right? Minimizing the risk so that it doesn't impact you too far. And you want to try to, again, our whole goal is to shorten the amount of winter time so that we can actually ride through it and be preparing for the best outcome for ready for spring that's going to come around the corner.

Yeah. And, you know, when I, when I mentioned earlier on that spring is the period of times where I feel people self-sacrifice, this is the period of time where I find people just aren't as aware as they could be. They're still walking out with a short sleeve shirt when it's like eight degrees and they've refusing to put that on or all the elements and all the clues are that things are changing, but they're not either aware of them. They're not, oh, they don't want to acknowledge him or a priest. So they kind of, no, no, no, no, no. So there's an element of denying what's happening and not really seeing things for how that would be. So to me, it's a danger period basically, potentially for people.

It's like Australians who refuse to put air conditioning in the houses because they refuse to admit that it's actually a hot country. Or the other way around, or heaters because they refuse that this is a cold country. It's like, I just don't get it. Every house I bought in Australia did not have air conditioning or heating. I'm like, I don't understand you people. Like, how is that possible?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah No, it's crazy. Well, you know, when I lived in Darwin, there was a guys that were roofers, right? And so they get up on roof with mara with laminated, sorry, with aluminium foil, aluminium foil, aluminium roofs, and it would just generate so much heat and they'd get in there, they'd have no air conditioning at all. It's super humid. And I'd say to them, they'd come in, then you'd look at them and they're fried. And I'd say, do you have air conditioning? No, it just makes you tough. I'm like, dude, I don't need to be that tough. Seriously. It is just, it's like 35 degrees and 95 % humidity. Your brain's frying. You need a cooler. You need some water. But yeah, I agree with you. I don't need to be that tough. Seriously.

Yeah Yeah, you don't need to prove anything to anybody. Comfort is a gift and a luxury that we deserve. And that's the summer of me accepting and taking profit to buy an air conditioner. So I hope that you guys enjoy this podcast. This has been fascinating. It's one of our longest podcasts we've done actually. this whole thing for all seasons, I think this applies so much areas and in multiple areas of your life. And I hope that you enjoy this and love to hear your thoughts on this, but more importantly, share this podcast with someone and.

Hahaha! Yeah.

Again, more importantly, make sure you understand and aware who you are, what season you're in, and also depending on what part of your life, and apply it accordingly, and just know the key line, which is that this too will pass at some point, and so you are ready and be prepared for the next season. I hope you enjoy this. This is Jim and I, and we'll talk to you on the next podcast of Wabi Sabi, The Art of Imperfection. Talk to you soon.