You Get What You Tolerate

Welcome to Wabi Sabi, the podcast talking about the art of imperfection. And I mean, when talk about imperfection, is the journey of Jim at the moment because life doesn't seem perfect at all. So Jim, maybe you can give us an update. I think on where you're at, how's life and how many times have you flown back and forth to back to Spain from Embra to just kind of get everything sorted.

you Well, yeah, I try very hard not to personalize that Lawrence, but Mr. Imperfection right now is definitely an element of what's what's been going on. So a very quick summary. have moved to Edinburgh and we moved to Edinburgh at the time of recording to about a month now. And I've had to put off recording with you on a few occasions because there were things that weren't working really well. I think two, two or three weeks ago when we, when we got to record, uh, I didn't have, um, basically wifi in my home and we started recording. It was like, Jim, this is not going to work. We had to can it there straight after that. I then had to, uh, fly to Spain to process my visa. The second part of the visa. Uh, I was just telling Lawrence offline. I was told that it was going to take a month. took two days. It's funny how you can fast track things when you pay. for the accelerated processes. And I'm back in Edinburgh now with wifi. Our dog arrived here two days ago. Our son has visited from New York, arrived here yesterday and our other son's coming in a few days. there's a level of normality that has entered into my life and world. And it kind of feels strange, you've to be honest, after this ride that we've had over many, many weeks and months.

Yeah, so you can see if anybody in what video I'm still in t-shirt and Jim's in a jumper now. So that's that's how you know he's he's he's gone to the north.

Yeah. Yeah, I have. That's exactly right. And I'm looking out of my my window here is a beautiful, beautiful window here, magnificent garden and it's raining and it's it doesn't get green just by thinking about it. So it's it's just in keeping and on theme and on brand.

You Well, listen, at the end of the day, I think it leads itself, you your move and your, your continuing transformation was a three countries in two years, uh, you know, theme really kind of talks a lot about sort of, you know, the, the thing that we want to talk about today, which is, um, you know, we get what we tolerate is the theme that we kind of really come around and discuss here. And the reality is that that starts to, I don't know about you, but I think I would imagine it's the same for you is that that thought did cross our minds when we made the decision to. make a change, a difference in our life. Would that be true in your realm?

Definitely, definitely, definitely. There's, there's, toleration. You know, the way you and I have played this out is not how most people will do that. But at its core essence, that's where it starts. There's something that you, it could just be that you're living an amazing life and you know, there's still music left in you and you just, there's still something left or, or there's a part of you that's not really living fully or another part of you that's just really disappointed with how things are. And You make a conscious decision. Something must change. I must change. Something has to be different. Otherwise I'm just going to be swallowed up in something. it's, you know, I'm quietly, you know, it's the death of a paper, of a thousand cuts sometimes if, if you don't create change.

Hmm. It's, it's really interesting because, uh, oftentimes is that we don't, when you get into that state of comfort, we don't know we're in it. Like we just, we are just comfortable. And oftentimes I think the problem with comfort is that you get used to the comfort and it's so comforting. I know that seems obvious, but it's get to this level that you don't want things to change. it, but it's, creeps slowly. you know, into your life. And that's where the tolerance kind of comes into play because you sort of let it slip in a little bit and a little bit slips in a bit more, a bit more, and then you go, okay, well, I'm okay with that. And I think sometimes certain things are healthy to do that, certain things. And we just talked about it just before the recording, we talked about the, you know, Southern Europe, you know, the bureaucracy, the paperwork, that it takes time and...

Yep.

You know, we mentioned this in several podcasts before, but in those circumstances, you do actually have to tolerate it in a way because otherwise it becomes this endless frustration where you bet your head against the wall. So it's just perfect examples. you my visa, told you, just, my residency has now expired and you can't upgrade it online. And because there's a backlog of like 400,000 applicants in the process. in Portugal here to get that working. And because they decided to change the department who handles this stuff, they're just completely swarmed and backlogged. And the only way, just to kind of add some humor into this, the only way sometimes that people can actually get a visa, like I know people who literally been here for two years that have no visa, the only way sometimes to actually get them to move their butt is that people just sue them. They sued the government. And when they sued the government, somehow that moves the paperwork forward for them, okay?

Hmm

But obviously that takes some time and lawyers and everything. But now from what I'm hearing, like from based on some Facebook chats and stuff, like even that is not moving the needle anymore. So they're just sort of just sitting on this. And so they've given an extension in Portugal, but the problem is, you know, which they don't care about, which is that when I have to travel outside of the EU, I might not be able to get back on a plane because I technically don't have a visa to get into the EU. So, you know, to kind of put things in perspective, like I got to go to Bali.

Wow.

I had to make sure my flight flew into Lisbon as the first European stop versus like say the Netherlands or Spain because that country might not let me in, right? Because they don't care about the Portugal rule. They're following EU rules and it's like, it's Portugal's problem, not ours. So which then limits my options. And so I guess what I'm saying is there's two fronts. One is sometimes you have to tolerate certain things, but when you tolerate, you do have consequences.

Right.

And I think that happens in our life as well, if you sometimes unconsciously tolerate and sometimes we consciously tolerate, but either way, there's a consequence to that.

Mmm. Yeah, definitely. Lawrence. I love the distinction because I think what you highlight there is some things that are, uh, legalities that you tolerate. Do you have to accept that, you know, this is the law of the land. I don't have to work with that. That's, that's one of those. you can challenge those, but a lot of times the pushback is pretty severe. You know, you can't really check, you know, that the, the, wheels of change happened very, very, very slowly. Other things that you'll tolerate. might look at this and go, You know, look at the example of Uber where people tolerated a certain level of service or lack of service, some people would say. And out of that, the frustration came that created a change that disrupted how we now basically get ride sharing. So sometimes it's really interesting because you can get frustrated. And I think the powerlessness comes when there's no capacity to change. things, you know, like, so to me, I think the metric that I always focus on is what's in my control and what's out of my control. If it's in my control, I could do something about it. It really, I really think about it severely and a lot, I should say, and really go, what can I do? And is it important enough for me to lean into this? In which case, then I focus and progress and follow along. But there's some certain things like, you know, Spanish and Portuguese.

Hmm.

shops are sharp between one and five. And as much as you want to push back against that, it's ingrained in the culture and the ethos of the country. You're not going to change that. So they're the ones where you go, okay, I have to tolerate that. have to work around this. I have to work with this because I'm not going to be able to change that.

Yeah, and that's the thing. It's a decision that you should really evaluate the distinction between the things you have change over or have action, sorry, control over versus something that is non-controlled. And for things you have no control over, you do have to tolerate. Or I do have to tolerate whatever election outcomes in your country is. Or you have to tolerate certain people's decisions to go into war or your, you know, in terms of what people do with, you know, certain, I don't know, let's just say the influence on the dollar and the inflation and printing of money or whatever, like, those are something you have to tell it. However, there are certain things you don't have to tell is you don't actually have to just sit by and do nothing. And that's the thing that you can control. So if you, if let's just say you own stocks in a particular company, and you know, you have to tolerate that they are the ones who make the decision on what they do with their company.

Yep.

But what you can control over is that you don't actually have to tolerate by holding onto that stock. You can actually change stock if you choose to. And I think those are important distinctions to know that what we're talking about is the toleration. That's a toleration, is that even a word? But tolerating things that you actually have control over.

Yeah. Yeah, I think you're, you're right though. Like on a macro level, it may feel like you don't have much capacity to move and change the needle, uh, to shift the needle, should say. But, but if enough people have that same view and you vote with your feet, then you're not tolerating that. So you see a whole lot of class actions or you see a whole lot of shareholder, uh, revolt and they'll basically, uh, sell down their shares or consumers will go, no, I won't tolerate that. in this company. So consequently, I'm going to vote with my feet. I'm going to move. I'm going to allocate my funds and money somewhere else. So that at an individual level, even though there's something macro, there's the individual part of it. But sometimes you drop in the ocean. You're going to go, what can I do? But I think a lot of the times a very important starting point is to be, OK, what can I do within this? Even though it's a David and Goliath scenario, that potentially, if enough people get around this, maybe create a change. knows? That's how political parties happen, movements, even though one vote won't make the difference, a movement can.

But the challenge of course, though, the people that, know, having that feeling of that it's hard to change and they feel defeated. And so therefore they kind of almost resolve in their head that I can't change this. So therefore I just, just more tolerate, but they just sort of accept the circumstances. And I think that that's really the problem is that it creates this negative loop in our, in our heads is that since I can't change it, just, what's the point. And, but then when that happens over and over and over again for a variety of things, the person then ends up in a position of helplessness. And then that becomes this learned helplessness, which is like they learned that this, can't do anything about it, so I have to tolerate. And this is that perfect example of the dog who used to be, I think they experimented where they would shock the dog on the ground, on the floor. And they couldn't escape it, so they just basically just stayed there. And instead of jumping up and trying to figure out, because after a while, I was like, well. no matter what I do, I'm getting shocked. So they just basically give up. And I think that's how a lot of people feel, unfortunately. And I know I've been that way where you just feel like I can't move forward and you just get to this place where you like the only way out is you actually have to make the decision to make that change instead of waiting for someone to rescue you. then because now because you shifted from a victim mentality to a victor mentality, which is like you actually have control over your life rather than playing victim that this poor me, this is happening to me.

Yeah, it's a great point you say, and it's a really, you know, in situations and times where I've been there or I've seen and witnessed people in that. So it's a really, it's a dark place where you, know, there's hope is gone. Possibility is gone. What, what's the point? What's the, what's the use of doing something? So you get into, as you said, that learn helplessness loop where you don't even consider even trying, or there's a possibility of creating change and. You're right. Something has to shift and it has to, has to start the spark has to start with you. You know, it has to start with you to make a decision to course correct and change the loop. And instead of it being a down spiral, getting to a point where sometimes you go, you know what enough is. This is the line I've got to, that's, that's it. That's done. I have to, I have to move forward. And that is then the catalyst that then you build action and momentum and movement on with subsequent actions. thoughts, behaviors that suddenly start changing the upward spiral. That's any time you've you're stuck and caught in that scenario, it's it's having the courage to make that first difficult decision. all time, that's not just that. That's it. You make the decision and then you have to keep actioning and keep staying true to that process by following through the actions of the behaviors that are required.

Well, I think it requires questioning, you know, um, reality and I'll give you an example. friend of mine, um, Taki, he, he, you know, came over and spent some time here in Portugal and, know, he's a good friend of mine and, and, know, really theoretically he's a, he's a great coach in a sense of, of, know, in the coaching world. And he, you know, one of the things that he did was, know, we just talked, he just talked about, we just talked about life and in terms of like where, my business is that and in how I would want to change that. what I would like to do. And I started talking about that. And then he just asked a simple question, which I asked all my clients, like, well, what's stopping you from doing that? And, you know, a part of me had to go, okay, well, do I tell the truth here or do I hold back or just make up excuses? And, you know, for once I was actually sitting in the car, you know, a long drive to get to dinner and his wife was in the car. like, you know, I'm just going to speak my truth. And then let's just see, no matter, don't worry about the judgment. So that's what the first hurdle I had to fight through was judgment.

Okay, yeah.

judgment from other people who in the car, judgment from what they think. And so I had to fight through that first, right? And then, so then I blurted out as I bro, okay, okay, well, this is the reasons why I haven't done it or here's my excuse. But, you know, and I know you know this because as soon as you say them out loud in public, you start to read it's like, that is so dumb. That is so stupid. But the reality is though, is that's been sitting in my head. those are the reasons why I can't, know, I don't say I tell myself I can't do A, B or C is because I've not not that I've had that full conversation and put it into words. But it's almost like in your brain, you compress all of those excuses until no, you can't do that. Right. But until you actually go through it logically and out outwardly express it in words.

Yeah. Hmm.

that's when you start to break it apart and you start to see all the flaws and holes in those excuses. But until you sort of lay it out and to actually see the holes in the sheet, let's say call it the sheet of excuses, you know, when it's all crumpled up into one, you're like, oh man, that's bulletproof. Like that's Kevlar, man. You can't punch through that, right? And I think that's sort of how I sort of recognize it with myself was like,

Yep. Yeah.

that that's what it is. then so then because of that Kevlar of excuses, instead of a thin piece of paper that has holes in it, I've then used that Kevlar to go, well, you know, I can't do anything about it. So this is just not way I am. And then I just keep on. That's the thing of being, you know, just living with what I'm tolerating, because that's what I'm tolerating. I'm tolerating this frustration that I'm having without actually taking the time to evaluate.

Yeah.

you know, what is really holding me back? What's really stopping me? And evaluating those questions instead of finding, and I get into this position of where instead of looking at solutions to solve that problem, I'm actually just using the hurdles to give me more excuse to stay in that comfort zone.

Thank Yeah, it's a, it's a really interesting scenario. I can relate to that. I've been scenarios where when you, when you're stuck in your head, you're constantly and indefinitely loop and loop and loop and loop. And, and, and the reasons become that they can become self-fulfilling. And then after a period of time, that's, that becomes your reality that, that, and sometimes there's a couple of things that you said that really, really stood out for me. There was number one, you, you kind of got out of your own way by said, no, I'm just going to blurt it out. So there was, as you said, the judgment. So that could only have happened if you were in an environment and a place where you actually went, you know what, I'm going to share this and I feel comfortable enough to share what's really going on for me, um, without worrying about being judged. So I think this is sometimes what, you know, how many times you hear someone say, Hey, I wanted to I was not sure how the people around me were going to cope. People would say I'm going to start a new eating plan and life plan but I'm not going to get the support of the people in my family. I don't keep doing it. A lot of women I have spoken to say I want to make decisions about my health. It's not supported by the rest of my family. Now I'm cooking two meals. One for me and one for them. It's so much harder. The barriers or the friction points are still there, which makes the process just self-esteem. Sorry, basically. So it's motivation, I should say. And your own self-esteem and just pushing through. And that's the hardest thing to incorporate. But I think the pathway that I heard that was the first step was you just. Just sharing what was going on for you. And once you do that, once you that there's a concept, once you hear something, once you communicate something, once you put it out there and or can name it, that feeling, the emotion. you start creating power over those emotions and you can do something about it. But when they're trapped internally, it's very hard to change.

This brings me back to you know when we were making a decision of whether we would go to Portugal or stay in Australia and I remember I had a mastermind group that I used to you know Communicate with them once a month and the issue sort of came up and like if this is I remember saying to them like well I think I I think you know we're I we should go to move out of Australia and go to a different country But you know so my excuse was but I'll you know, it's really up to Karen Because at the end of the day, she needs to buy in and I'm ready to move like that. And a lot of suggestion kind of came through and then a psychologist who is one of the people that I kind of hang out with. And she said to me, she goes, I forget about Karen for a second, like, do you actually want to go? And that really hit me hard because the question was like, oh, like I thought I was like, yeah, I'm ready to go. But it was because I just used her as an excuse to not make up my mind. Cause I was like, it's her issue, not mine. And, and then I had to like sit back and go, yeah, like I, guess I should consider like, what do, what do I want to do? Like, no, forgetting about what everybody else wants. Like, what do I want to do? Why I want to do this.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And I sat with it for a week to really go into like, yeah, like I have to own this. I have to really make a decision here. Do I want this for myself first? Not to try to convince her or anything. you know what the funniest thing is, is that within that week I made it go, no, I think this is the right call. Like if I had to make a call, if it was just me, to make the call, this would be what's best for me and my family. And then within a week, Karen's like, we're going. I didn't say anything. Like I didn't convince her, I didn't change anything. But like, you know, as much as this is kind of woo woo, like I think the energy shifted in me, which then shifts like the thought process and how we communicated with this. And that would change for me. And I was like, how would that maybe really realize? I'm like, wow, like how much control of energy you actually have and what I was tolerating, what I was tolerating. And in that instance, I was tolerating that it's not my call, it's her call. And it's like,

Good. Yeah.

It's her, her, the ball's in her court, not mine. But without actually evaluating my own circumstances and how do I feel about it and letting someone else dictate the future of where I wanted to go. But I actually had to like get internal and to figure out like, is this something that I need that I want to desire and then kind of move from there.

You know, it's, it really confronting when you realize, when you call yourself out on your own stuff, when you actually go, actually, this is not about them at all. It's actually about me or I've been, I've been using that as padding or as an excuse or as a justification that it's really about this person or the decision rests with them. And the reality is we haven't really delved into it enough to go, okay, well, what do I want? And am I prepared to step into the ring? And do it myself and do what would involve. And a lot of the times you're right. It's we, we not hide behind, but we seek comfort and refuge in our roles, responsibilities, obligations, commitments. And because they don't feel like they're adaptable, we kind of go, well, there's no point of changing that. So I might as well just stick with it. But there's very few things that I know that you can't untangle if you decide that it's important enough, you know, like. You know, you can look at this and go, all the kids are settled. They're in school. We've got a mortgage. We've got this, we've got that. And you go, well, systematically, you just untangle every one of those if the compelling reason is big enough. So it's not to undermine how difficult that process is because it's hard. It's difficult, but is it impossible? No. And a lot of the times it's, I think when we can get to real, real baseline core beliefs and core truth, that then is, And when you can get clarity in yourself, you then become, know, when you talk about it from a quantum perspective, you then become the field that creates that it gives other people permission to do the same basically, because then they can actually feel that you're, um, you're aligning on that kind of frequency on that kind of decision. And there's no roadblocks and it's just runway. If that's what you want.

Yeah. Well, I mean, going back to like what I said about, you know, the change in an idea that I had around the change in business. Once I blurted that out and realized like, okay, I'm really holding myself back and then recognizing, I'm like, okay. But then, then the confronting part comes, right? Which is what you said. It's, it's, it's a hard road. Like, okay. It's like almost like going down to the bottom of, you know, Mount Kilimanjaro and you go, okay, I've just, I finally made a decision that I need to commit to this client. Now this doesn't make it any easier, right? You still got to do the climb, right? You got to do the training, you got to climb, you still got to climb that mountain. You just only thing that's different is that you're committing to it instead of just like making excuses for it, right? So that's the only change. It's internal, but the physical aspect of it still has to be a struggle. And you look up at this mountain, you're going, oh my God, like, okay, I'm going to have to do this. And, you know, obviously right away as you commit, you always automatically get some fear around this. And what was interesting,

hahahahah Yeah.

just explaining my process so as I'd hope someone benefits someone. The thing that comes up was like, well, here comes another flood of different excuses, right? Before it was not even, it was excuses of starting or even considering this as an idea. But as soon as I go, okay, that's actually a really good idea. I'm gonna go lean into it. Now there's a flood of other excuses of why that won't work, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's like climbing up the mountain, I'm like, yeah, but it's so cold. It's really tall and you know, I'm not fit enough right now. you're like, all these other excuses starts coming up. And then now I have to deal with those excuses. And what was really fascinating in my brain was traditionally I probably would have just go, okay, I'm going to, this idea sounds great. I think I'll go, but then it goes up, but here's the problem. And then, you'll list a bunch of ideas, excuses. And then you go, okay, let me ponder on that, those key excuses. Let me think about this, right? And that's when it caught me. So I'm like, no, no, no, no, wait a second. This exactly what you don't really do. Like, why are you pondering? Right? What you're doing is you're allowing the excuses to override your moving one more step. You just made one step, actually, wasn't even a step. It's more a decision not moving forward instead of just staying still. But I actually haven't taken a step yet. And I go, no, no, no. Like, what you got to figure out is, okay, that first excuse, how do I jump? Like, find solutions. How do I overcome that first hurdle? But that was the difference. It was like, my brain just went from not letting the...

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

like it was the mindset of not letting that excuse stop me from moving forward, but the mindset of going, how do I find a solution to get past this excuse? And they sound exactly the same, but one has like a form of momentum where the other one is actually dragging you back towards the comfort and what you're gonna tolerate. And that was fascinating to me. No, no, no, like I'm no longer gonna sit there. And again, that.

Yeah. Yeah.

obviously driven by purpose and everything else, I have to figure it out. that's how you did the desire to want to figure it out is drawn by the reason why you do it, the bigger purpose. Because if you don't have that, I guarantee you it's a lot easier just to sit in those excuses.

Yeah, totally. And I love that because I think you've highlighted very well the difference between the difficulty of making a decision and then the difficulty of starting the process because the process you're at the bottom of the hill, dude, you're just, you know, you think I didn't know it gonna be this hard. And it's really interesting. You know, like I I'll declare, you know, just so which gives context to the statement I'm to make next is I'm I believe in universal laws and spirituality and flow and all those kinds of things. The paradox for a lot of people is a lot of times they make the decision. Yes, I'm going to do this. This is a really hard decision. I've done it. And then they realize, okay, if it's meant to be, if it's going to be, meant to be, and I'll do it. And the universe wants me to do it. So universe is not going to give you the leg up necessarily. You're to be in flow, but you've got to create it. So even if you're purposefully living a life of design, you're still going to be at the bottom of the hill. It's not going to, you're not going to necessarily get magically lifted up. And that's the, that's the disconnect for a lot of people. They feel that, okay, if I'm on purpose or if I'm in flow or the universe wants me to do this, it's just going to be a really, you know, like elevation process. And it's not, dude, it's not, it's not heresy to think that just because you've made a tough decision and you're in flow, it has to be hard work. It has to come with it. And I think that that's what confuses a lot of people because they confuse.

Yeah.

roadblocks with work. And that's, and to me that's, and I guess along the path of the work, there are going to be obstacles and they're the ones that you have to then work out to go, okay, is this enough of, is this important enough for me to tolerate or keep push through it? And that led to me, there are constant tests along the path, along the sort of direction you want to go. That to me is what has made sense for me amongst all of the obstacles that we've had to negotiate and work through was because no, it's important enough and we have to embrace all the obstacles have to work through them because they are important enough. And no, I won't settle until I get to where I want to get to. So that's, that's how I reconcile it in my mind.

Yeah, and I think like, you know, for me, the next, I mean, me just talking about it here, like live recorded, you know, it's like one of the important steps because I'm almost like willing it to exist, right? I'm not just talking about it. I'm actually telling people about it in a way. And, and, know, instead of just hiding in and like brainstorming the idea of my head and my secret lab, I'm actually like, I'm mentioning it to my clients and getting feedback. And, and I'm almost like,

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

this is going to happen or this is what I'm thinking of happening. Even when I say that, so it starts to move in that direction because it is just taking one step at a time, right? It's not about trying to figure out how all the pieces need to work. It's more just like I have a loose skeleton on how it's going to work, but now I just got to take the small little actions to kind of build them up in momentum so that I can actually create like a, what do you call it? Not a spin wheel, but a fly wheel. so that it actually builds up enough momentum so it can actually take off. But that's the part part, right? Because like riding a bike the first time, riding a bike or anything, it's like you need to build that momentum to kind of get that machine going. It's like firing a rocket into space. That initial escape velocity needs to be there to go against the inertia that you have. And that's where I think a lot of people get stuck on.

Yep. Yeah.

is because they might have gone through the first commitment in their heads, that's hard enough hurdle, but the second hurdle is a get out of inertia to build enough momentum to get past it to actually start the process, which is hard because it's physically, emotionally, draining and takes a lot of effort. And that's where the purpose driven, having a purpose to pull you to see beyond the pain, beyond the work is necessary.

Yeah, I'm curious. You know, you really forthright in sharing that you went, OK, I made the decision. I communicated what was was going on and instantly you had the fear. Right. So after you've embraced the fear, what was after that? What came after that?

Yeah, so, so that's the courage to kind of take this, the next step, not necessarily the courage to do the whole thing, but the courage to kind of do the next step. And then it, then I, then I just broke down like what, what I'm, I'm in the middle of it. So what I need to break down was what is my biggest hurdle? Like why, like why haven't I even considered this in the first place? Um, and it is, okay, I'll tell you what, I don't have to tell you exactly what it is because the idea is still, but it's the one of the biggest hurdle was charging the amount.

Yep. No, no. Yeah.

for that particular service or products. And to me was like double the amount of what I expect, or sorry, what I'm currently charging. And it's like, just getting past that hurdle in my head, I'm like, well, how do I get comfortable with it? But that was the solution, you see? The excuse would have been, I can't charge that. But the solution for me at least was the flip of that goes, well, how do I get comfortable with it? So you can see like the difference in terms of energy.

excuse. Yeah.

on how to do that. Because first one would have been like, how do I charge it? I can't charge that. That's an excuse. I've already knocked myself out of the game. Where's the, I go, no, no, okay, well, how do I, how do I get past myself? Because it is internally in my head to go like, I'm going to charge that. And so now that that went to solution B. So now it's the third thing, which this is the basic of the four C's, right? Commitment, courage, and then it's capabilities, right? So what capabilities do I need to learn to get past that? Right? So capabilities might go, okay, well, I got to figure out like what's actually the block. The block is value, which I think a lot of us struggle with when it comes to our own product and services. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so it's going to be one of two things, right? I think it's one is how do I elevate myself to, to ensure that I have the value 10 times more than what I'm charging and what I can bring to the table.

self-value error the value we bring it and what we're worth yet got it. Okay. Yeah

And two, how do I increase the value of delivery to the client to ensure that they're going to get 10 times the value that they're actually going to give me? Because this is just value of exchange. And so to me, that was important, right? So that was the important part to kind of get past that. And if we can kind of do that, learn whatever I need to learn, the capabilities, all the skills I need to have to have And the mindset and all that's what I'm learning. And I think from there, I'm already starting to, it's only been a few days, getting a bit more confident. I have a plan, right? So, you know, the plan is to go, okay, why not have to charge? I don't have to go from here to here. I can go well for the next five people, I'll charge this amount. And then after that five people are charged this amount and then slowly step in like, okay, well, that's a strategy around that. Okay, that's perfect. I'm actually quite comfortable with that. I work my way in, it's no different how I charge from my coaching. clients now, I didn't start here, right? You know, I started 10 years ago at, you know, a certain price point and it's steadily increased because, know, I have to take the bravery of increasing. No different than, you know, practitioners that go like, you charge this amount. There's always a fear to raise their price. Of course, there's always fear. There's always fear every single time, but you need to, you still need to do it. Otherwise you're losing money every single time, but due to inflation. So therefore you just have to be brave enough to find, figure out how to overcome that. It's the same thing. It's just like, you know, that's the path I have to really figure out. I'm at the stage of capabilities. What capabilities do I need to learn? How do I structure this? How do I add more value? Those are the things that I, without actually sacrificing, and the key element is not without me having to sacrifice more time or energy that I don't want to give up on, right? So that's the stability. can always, you can always add value for adding value safe, but the problem is that you need to have guidelines and going, you know, how do you add value but within a time constraint?

Yep. Yep. Yep. Got it. Got it. Um, so really where I guess I'm going to, I guess synthesize that to go, okay. So once, cause this is what I heard is that you had leading up to the moment that you spoke, uh, as you said, your truth and liberated and put voice and momentum to, to that. was the fear leading up to it. And the moment you, you shared it, then there's a fear that comes up about how am going to do this? What's going to go on? But beyond that was then the. Okay. There's the energy, there's a momentum that builds that says, okay, the what ifs, how do I do this? So that, guess that's what I took out of that is leading up to a tough decision. If you're stuck, if you're putting up with stuff, there's going to be roadblocks and resistance. And the moment you make a decision, there's going to be the immediate pop-up screens that come up that show you your fear. But some, once you get past that, then you have this liberation of free energy where you actually start moving and you get momentum and you get things going. And. There's a difference between work there because you're going to come up against work, but you've got the wind in your sails in a sense because you go, okay, I've made the decision. I'm moving forward. What's in front of me is not baggage and stuff that I'm carrying behind me. It's the stuff that I've got to do to bring this to life. So to me, there's a difference between stored and free energy in a concept.

Yeah. Yep, well, I think it's because at the beginning, you look at all how impossible was this task, right? So like climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, like you look at that mountain, you're like, how am I going to do this? Because what it floods naturally in our brains is all the things, like all the excuses that weigh you down, that stops you from even taking the first step. And I think one of the key things that I did in my brain was to break it down into smaller chunks. It's like, what is the one big thing that's actually stalling me at this moment to take the next action step? Right? So I don't need to like, I don't need to worry about the tip of the mountain. I just need to, how do I get to that boulder? Right? And, and, but, what, but what's what the problem is I need to cross this river and I don't know how to swim. So I got to have to figure that one out. Like, don't worry about the top. Like, let me just get to that boulder first, which means I have to cross this river first. And I think that breaking it down to like smaller challenges, um, both that momentum. Cause now once I figured out how cross that river. then all sudden the wind in your sail, like as you said, is going to be there because it's a small little wind. And that small little wind adds to the next wind, to the next wind. That's the thing that builds up that escape velocity, that inertia, that flywheel that we talked about earlier to kind of build enough momentum. Then all of a sudden, like, it feels like you're unstoppable, but you do need to start with the first thing. And that's, that's not make the first thing so big. Um, or that stops you stopping your track in the first place.

Yep. Yep. Okay, so in your example specifically, how do you differentiate that between what you're doing and recklessness,

Okay, so I think recklessness is when you are risking You know the consequence could be dire and so one of the you know I It's first of all you need to learn to embrace failure right like is this gonna work. I have no idea I can't answer that question it might fall fall flat into my face but how I think about how I always think about anything that I attack is What's the? If I did fail Can I fail firm? meaning can I land back on my feet if this doesn't work so that I still have a chance to still continue on this path? So let's go back to Portugal or Spain for you. When we first moved, the failure point is that if this doesn't work, if we come to Portugal, my wife hates it because she's never even been here. And the kids absolutely hate it. And it's like a country that, you know, just doesn't feel safe or they don't feel like this is comfortable, whatever. Well, it's not like... I mean, I literally did sell everything, right? I sold my house, sold my everything, but I still have a passport. It's not like Australia is going to go, no, you left, you can't come back, right? I have another passport. have a Canadian passport. I can always move forward to go to Canada. Now didn't want to do any of those options, but it is an option. So I think about failing firm, meaning it's like, if you're going to fail, like you're not going to lose everything. And even if you did lose everything, can you still get back on your feet?

Hmm.

And I think of always thinking about free solo, the movie, um, where Alex Honnold, like he's climbing this mountain with no ropes. And the thing is with mountain climbers is that if you fall, if you miss a step, you die. There's no feeling firm. Like you failed literally dead, right? You, you, that's it. There's no tomorrow. And there's a moment in the movie. I remember that he was going to make this leap, but he wasn't sure. And he basically, instead of making the leap because all the cameras on him, he just came down. He was halfway up or something and then just came back down. And it's like, because the point of it was I could come back tomorrow and figure it out. But if you don't give yourself that chance, I think if you've learned to, if you don't give yourself the opportunity to think through those consequences and know that there is some failing firm aspects of it, I think that's risking it all. So to answer your question, I think that will be risking it all is that it's recklessness because you don't, you only thought one way, like I'm going to push this through no matter what. not think about the consequences of what would happen if you did do that.

Yep. Yep. I think totally, totally agree. And when I think of recklessness as a distinction between that is anything that you quite often will do that will stretch you, it's natural and normal for fear to come up. Okay. Even you talk to people who are in the armed forces or people who you consider incredibly brave or people who are doing things that no one's ever done before. Fear is a normal process. It's going to come up. Right. And so to me, it's like, don't be disheartened by the fact that you have fear. It's like, find a way to work with that. And in spite of that, to me is the distinction. Recklessness for me, people who haven't even considered fear and have somehow gone, I'm going to do it anyway, I don't care. And it's like, for them, they haven't considered the fear, the mitigating factors that have to, you know, they have to do their due diligence because you can do due diligence and know it's safe, but you still got to jump. That's overcoming fear. Recklessness to me is not, not even considering that that is a legitimate reason that's actually trying to keep you safe. And to me that that's where the danger happens. That's that's riskier to be reckless than to be terrified and take one small step in the direction you want to go because you are acting in spite of everything inside you saying, don't do this, dude, don't do this. Whereas recklessness to me isn't as considered. And that's the difference from a risk perspective, the way that I see it.

Yeah, and I think that what happens is that I find that most people who are perceived to be risk takers are actually risk adverse. I don't think they're actually, you know, the people that they think they are. They might have done risky things from the outside perspective, but introspectively, there was always, they were risk adverse because they've actually looked at all the possibilities and took that risk knowing that it was going to be safe. Um, you know, a perfect example of this is, you know, when Bill Gates, you know, or, uh, Steve Wozniak, you know, started Microsoft and Steve Wozniak, you know, joined Apple, uh, with, Steve Jobs, like everybody that, well, they dropped out, know, Bill Gates dropped out of high university. You know, then, you know, I think it dropped out of university to start with Microsoft. But in reality, people then said, they goes encouraged, like, it's almost like saying like, good for him. And he dropped out of college and to start this thing. Right.

Hmm.

Zuckerberg, same thing. It's like, I'm like, wow, like, you know, amazing. That's it's almost like saying that you need to like drop out of university to do something. But the reality is that he deferred, right? It's not like he goes, I see you later, guys. I'm never coming back because he wasn't sure. Like you remember the beginning of Microsoft, they don't know if that's going to work. No, he deferred his, like that's what I would have done, right? If I'm to go, I found something I really wanted to do. I would have just deferred it here, right? He just never went back.

Yeah. Yep.

It's no different than me. Like actually come back to think of it. Like when I left my practice, I didn't just leave my practice. I took as a radical. Cause I wasn't sure if I was done. didn't, I was like, I just want to take some time to really think this over and just get a feel like, I done with practice? And it was a month in that I realized I'm like, no, I'm really done. Like I don't have any desire to go back to this practice. That's when I put it on for sale. It wasn't like one day I'm like, no, I'm done practice. I'm going to quit.

Hmm. Yep

No, that didn't happen. That happened was like I took a sabbatical. I could come back to it any time. I just didn't, right? So from the outside looking in, it was like, oh yeah, he just one day decided not to practice and he quit. No, I didn't. That's not how it happened at all, right? And Steve watched me. It's the same thing. When he joined Apple, he still had the other job. He worked both jobs before I believe he moved to work with Apple. And then until that one job became more so. It's not like I went to coaching.

Yeah. Yeah.

First, no, I had coaching and practice at the same time until I realized I'm like, okay, I need to make a decision. I took a sabbatical, temporarily stopped practicing, then go, oh no, I think I'm done. And then moved everything, all the chips to that thing because I knew that, okay, I can play with that now, with those chips. And I think that's the thought process of risky people are not usually as risky as you think. They're usually more risk at first.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's, that's the part that quite often, uh, I'm glad you, drew that attention to, that concept because a lot of the times it's not like impulsive. It's considered that's what I wanted to draw the differentiation between. It's not impulsive wake one day and Hey, that's a great idea. do that. Well, then you're at the effect of fate and change and circumstances. What you're talking about is, um, taking leaning into the fear. Um, Creating safety nets and safeguards and you can look at like you're taking this really big leap but what you've done is you've made the barriers to failure as as much in your favor as possible, know when you talk about Basically Microsoft I remember going to Harvard and doing a tour of Harvard and they go. Yep That was his apartment, know Bill Gates his apartment while he was a student student doing that one right there. So You're right. And we romanticize about the idea of people having these risks and doing that. And we celebrate that and they're great stories. A lot of the times, though, that's exactly right. was just it was gradually done in a way that the circumstances were put in someone's favor. The person that I know who's the riskiest entrepreneur is Elon Musk. know, and he's and but he's an exception. He's an exception to the rule. You know, like and most people when they tolerating things will go, I need to change this. I'm going to do this. I've got a responsibility. I've got a family. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this in my spare time and do it in my garage. I'm going do it in evenings. That's how most, most of us think that people go, Hey, quit my job and go and fall in. No, but all the research shows that people do it on the side. That's how they start. That's how you started coaching. That's how I started coaching until it was actually a viable one. But then it got to this point where you went, okay, I'm at a point now where I can't be a little bit pregnant. I'm little bit, I'm in or I'm out. And I had to just go and cut the cord and go straight in. And that's, that's what you're talking about.

Yeah, and I think, you know, you take the case of Elon Musk, I still feel like even him, he most likely knew that the big risk that he would have done when he sold out of PayPal, and took that stack of money and then put it into like three different projects, right? All in, and living in someone else like a friend's, know, know, garage, I think there's two things that we need to consider one, he probably doesn't at that time, and maybe I maybe I'm wrong, I don't really know, but he probably didn't care as much about money as much as

put the... all chips in... yeah

you know, fulfilling a purpose or feeling needed or, you know, creating change in the world, right? So I think that's that. So his tolerance is like, don't need to be a multimillionaire. I just care that I lived, you know, like so that that's one. And two, he probably had enough connections to also know that he can probably ask for favors even if you all fail, all three. And three, he probably also knew within himself that he could always start from scratch and do it all over again. And so like having that in the background, I think it's important for them to kind of have that security and the confidence to be able to pull something like that off. And the challenge, of course, we use these stories mostly because most people are the opposite. Most people are not risky enough. They're not willing to take that risk. they end up being really what we're talking about. You get what you tolerate and this is what you tolerate. You tolerate where you are rather than risking something. And you're just balancing that other side, which is like how risky is risky and what's recklessness. Yeah, we do need to explore that. But I do, I know in my experience with any person who's taken massive risks, they are, they have, they're very intentional with their decision making. They're very intentional with their risk tolerance. And then it's thought through. It's not just, it's not gambling. I think there's a massive difference between gambling, which is hoping for something to work versus being calculated in terms of what you think. And your thesis may be wrong. however you've actually thought it through. And again, your thesis could be wrong. For example, you can have people who would invest all their money in real estate or some people invest all their money in crypto and someone invests all their money in stocks. Like everybody, no one's gonna go in and go, you know what, I'm just gonna go all in on Bitcoin without actually understanding why you would do that, right? I'm not saying it's right or wrong, that that's not the argument. The argument is no one would ever just push all the chips in. to one, unless you're just pure gambling into one thing. Most likely, most people would have thought through like, here's the reason why, here's my thesis on why I think real estate or Bitcoin or investments or the S &P 500 or this stock is going to be, it's going to go. Again, your thesis may be wrong, however, you thought it through and you know that someone's not being reckless in a sense, they're being thoughtful in that. And also too, your tolerance and my tolerance, everybody else's tolerance can be different from each other, what you're willing to fail at.

Thank

and how much you're willing to lose when the consequences do ask you to pay up. So that's the other factor that we have to consider when it comes to taking risks.

Cool. So just winding up, uh, Lawrence, I think that the, I guess we get what we tolerate caught off in time is some things that have came up in our discussion today is you have to cycle through what's important to you. You have to cycle and see your own value. Uh, you have to determine what's within your control and what's not within your control. And even when you make the decision and lean into the fear of making the decision on the other end of that is also the fear of great now I've started now to what what do I do the incompetencies the things that you don't know that that you didn't know you didn't know suddenly become front and center and they really present themselves so you have to cycle through that and then there's the work of the process that has to come up and involved in there as well too so I'm complete anything else you want to wrap things up or summarize for

Yeah, just one more thing I would say, having a purpose on the other side will get you through the hard times because that's when you're really willing to put your head down to actually, you know, tolerate the, not tolerate the excuses anymore, tolerate the obstacle that's in front of you to turn them not into obstacles any longer. You'll find solutions because you want to get that, you want to get to the other side more. more willingly than just being on this side of the obstacle. So I think that's important to, mean, everything you said is a great summary. I just wanted to make sure that you add that component to it too as well. So guys, I hope that you enjoyed this podcast. know, thanks for letting me share, you know, like my thoughts around this and then too, so you can live vicariously through what I have to go through. But I think this is exactly, without a shadow doubt is exactly what all of you go through in your day-to-day mind anyways. And I think that's why it's so important to kind of go through that to rec, how you recognize that, where Jim and I also go through exactly what you go through and we're just laying it out there and to recognize that, if we can do it, so can you. It's a matter of just dedicating and pushing through and also being able to see it for what it is and don't make it bigger than what it actually is. So I hope you enjoy that podcast. Go share this podcast with someone else. And this is Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. We'll see you on the next episode. Take care.