Finding Blind Spots

Welcome to Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. And like always, we are here to talk about all things about life and how we navigate through it without being perfect. So today we thought we'd talk about a topic of blind spots. And Jim brought this up and he said, I really have this gut feeling that this is a really good topic. And that really means to me is that he's got a lot of blind spots that he has right now and wants to talk about it.

Welcome to Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. And like always, we are here. Yep. BANG! Pretty much, pretty much. Well, that's a theme. That was a theme. And you know, a lot of the times I think I got to this realization a while ago, Lawrence, this is a platform for you and I really to talk through a lot of the stuff that we're working through. And by having people listen in, we've created a podcast for it. But you know, I get off the, I get off our recordings and go, okay, I've got some clarity around this area. I really appreciated the distinction that Lawrence provided for me. Yeah, so pretty much it. So yeah, I thought, I thought blind spots were,

You're welcome. I'll charge you later.

a very good and great topic to talk about. Cause that's, there's the imperfection in life as it is. And I just to give it some context in terms of why it came up for me, a hundred percent. Like I work on minimizing these Brian spots, but we ran an event here in Barcelona on the weekend. It was a, for a group and we were facilitating the day. And one of the participants was really awesome and, but went for it and was fantastic in all interactions. But it came apparent that she had a blind spot or what felt like a blind spot. So we, you know, delicately and systematically tried to help her become aware of that. And she was really oblivious to it as you normally would. And initially she kind of like, no, no, no, it's not there. It's not possible. And we worked through this process and really a great outcome. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't 24 hours later that I'm having a conversation with my youngest son who respectfully highlighted one of my own blind spots as well. So, and it was kind of like in the movie inception where there's like, if you've ever watched it, there's multiple levels. You think you're working on one plane, but you're really just a puppet to a bigger plane. And that to me realized that I thought I could pick somebody else's blind spots, but I was oblivious to mine. So I thought I'm throwing myself under the bus. You threw yourself under the bus last time in terms of the distractions that we were talking about. So I thought I'd. reciprocate the favour and throw myself under the bus on this one. So I think I have an awareness around a blind spot.

Sure. Well, it's kind of funny. Let's tie in the last episode around distractions to this one. So I think just we are often in life distracted, right? Distraction, the distractions that we have, we fill them so that we actually don't see those spots, those blind spots we're talking about. And, you know, I think, you know, you and I are very similar in this manner when it comes to, you know, coaching other people is that we clearly see.

Hmm.

people's blind spots, we clearly see the problems that are ongoing. We clearly see how to solve those problems, systematic, strategically and all those stuff. But however, when it comes to our own crap, oh my God, we are so blinded. And I think that's, and I wonder if that's true for most coaches. I wonder if that's true for most entrepreneurs or most people who are solving problems. And even in health industry, you know, I feel like,

We are super cool.

You know, you can tell someone else to be healthy and do all these things, but you don't, you're blinded by your own, what you need to do. And I think that that's, I feel like that's sometimes true for a lot of things when it comes to your own. And I think that's one of the reasons, and not trying to sell us or as coaches or anything, but I think that's one of the reasons why we hire coaches. We hire external people.

Yep.

because you often can't see your own blind spots. And there's a great saying a friend of mine said to me was like, you cannot see the label from inside the bottle. And that really kind of rang true to me. And I'm like, oh yeah, that's exactly what's happening. You can see clearly and everything else, but you can't see what's going on inside of you. And so that's why I think this topic is really relevant. And it forces us to kind of really throw ourselves under the bus to explain it.

Yep. You're 100 % correct, Lawrence. And my life has been transformed multiple times in having different trusted advisors come into my world and help bring distinctions and insights into how I may be doing things that may not be serving me. And sometimes your family and good friends can be the first people who will actually identify your blind spots for you. If they're really... honest with you and a lot of the times and not when I will talk about how you deliver this kind of information to someone. However, communicating something to someone in a way that they do not see they may be well -intentioned. They really want the know, but they just don't. That's why by nature, they're blind spots. Like you said, you can't see them and it can be huge and profound. It can totally alter the way you go about life, how you communicate with people, where you put your focus and, and. And it's a lot of the times they're not the hard skills, they're the soft skills that can make a really big difference in terms of your approach, your attitude to things, just even the way you communicate and talk to people, you may not even be aware of how that may be impacting them.

Yeah, so let's talk about some examples of some blind spots. You know, what were, what are some of your examples of blind spots that people should look for in their lives? Maybe start with something that's saying most, like the most generic blind spots that most of us are blinded to.

Yep. Okay, I'm going to come up with common ones. A lot of it could be your own self talk, your own self, I guess, view of how you view life, your life philosophy. So for example, the quick, the easiest one I can think of is a difference between a scarcity and an abundance mindset. And you may not be aware that your default is always to think of life from a scarce perspective, which then will be the filter through which you view all opportunities.

Hmm.

every experience, every expense, et cetera, will be, I guess, corrupted by that philosophy.

Yeah, one with that is also the common other common will be negativity or always thinking you always try I know people that are and people close to me that are always finding like what's wrong with something versus what's right. And in that net could kind of play out as in, you know, whatever an idea is put out there, they always kind of find the fault. But that wouldn't work because of X, Y and Z instead of actually.

Yeah. Mmm.

the usually the eternal optimist is the opposite way is like they can't never, which is also a blind spot is they, they can't see it failing. All right. It's like, I can't see it failing. And usually those two usually go together because it works perfectly. Uh, hand in hand simply because of, you know, having both parties, um, agreeing on, on that situation because they, they kind of figure out the blind spots for each other.

Correct. Yeah. Well, it's often been said that if you're not sure what your faults are, just ask a significant other, your spouse and whatever, they will happily communicate those to your kids. And in this instance for me, I'll communicate one of mine, which was the basis of the blind spot that I had an awareness of is that I, by I own, I'm a reformed rescuer. So effectively I love to help out and almost to the point where sometimes I lose myself in focusing on.

Hmm.

finding a solution for somebody that I would lose myself in that process. And so it's harder. And I found if I already had that predilection and it came to people that I love and care about, I quite often would go way too much and encroach on their capacity to problem solve themselves. And that was the essence of what, you know, my son was delivering to me. He was like, dad, love you dearly. I can see where the intention and the effect, sorry, where it's all coming from. However, what I need to let you know is that when you do this, it stops me from doing this, for example. And that has to be, you know, it's gotta be, you've gotta be open to be able to receive information, but it's then also allowing the environment where that kind of information can be readily shared without either being deflected, an argument happening, or you're rejecting it.

Yeah, it's in these mind spots are the thing is that you're so used to it and that's why you don't see it. It's because like you live with this for your whole entire life and no one's really made you aware of it. You know, maybe you're significant. Other would have made you aware of it, but unless you're willing to be number one, you have to be self aware, which means you're willing to kind of have a conversation with yourself and really not with judgment, but just really kind of see if this is actually true. And number two is it, are you willing to have that conversation around? you know, thinking that is this something that it that that's how does it affect me and what the impact I'm doing when we know when when that's happening. And third is that are you willing to do something about it to make that change and those are really difficult things to do. And that's why the blind spots are there.

Yeah, because by nature, it's you don't know what you don't know. And it's different when you say, hey, I'm capable, I'm determined to improve myself. But even if that becomes a way of life, even that's how you are as a person, there are always going to be little surprises that you had didn't have an awareness around. It could quite often be a response to a situation or that's that surprises you. You go, oh, I had no idea. That's how I had that. There could be, you know, a lot of women talk about this where. there's gender bias that creeps into our conversations and people who are willingly, I remember Bettina did a leadership course for women. It was a women's leadership course. And what astounded her was he was some pretty accomplished and highly credentialed female executives and women along this course. And yet they all uncovered this bias that they all had is that they all kind of reference to, some male superior, even though they were the leaders in themselves, they looked for a male around there. And that was a blind spot that they all had, which was a gender bias that they subconsciously had that they didn't even realize. So even if you're uncoupled, even if you're determined to keep doing the personal growth and development work on yourself, you will occasionally come up with these little gems that astound you, but really on the other side of it, ultimately changed the direction and. meaning and the pathway of your life really if you allow them to be that.

Yeah. And these, these biases, um, does affect us a lot because it really starts to, you don't realize it because you don't realize it. So therefore you continue to do it. And most people are not going to call you out. As I mentioned before, and what happens is that it creates this sort of, um, tendency in him. If it's more external, just say it's the way you sigh or the way you kind of, you know, have your face. Like one of the things, uh, a blind spot I had was that, you know, Karen used to tell me like smile a little bit. Like I didn't, you know, my resting face is a mean face. I'm. I didn't know. Like, I don't, you know, like if I'm sitting on an airport or I'm sitting on a plane, like I'm just trying to just relax and just kind of stay focused with my own little thing. I don't want to talk to anybody. And, you know, supposedly that my face is, looks like, you know, I'm angry at something. Why are you so angry? And I'm like, I'm not angry, but you know, my resting face doesn't show it. And so, you know, that's something that she has to repeatedly, repeatedly tell me, uh, where in my head, I'm like, I'm a really nice guy. And I,

Yeah.

you know, people like me. So I smile all the time, but obviously I don't. So, and it's something like that, which is external, can be a problem. And unless you, and I have to consciously try my very best to do that. And even today, I was actually thinking about it and I even knew what we were talking about today, but it was just, I realized like at the gym today, I was like, this guy was just like, you know, like so mean looking and just like, you know, he's new to the gym and trying to be welcoming. And he's like, just give me the cold shoulder. I'm like, dude, I'm just trying to.

Yeah, yeah.

you know, welcoming the gym and I'm like, Oh, maybe I'm just, maybe I'm looking like mean at six o 'clock in the morning. And like, I'm not more welcoming, even though my intention was, but my face doesn't show it. You know, I don't know. So.

I got a lot of water on my mouth. It's funny to say that because I think at 6am, if you've got someone who's overly chirpy, people would go, dude, just you're going to cut that. That's not working at 6am. However, if you just go with your normal default, you're polarizing people to understand what's going on. It's interesting you say about the face there, because I realized one of the things that I do is that when I concentrate, I scrunch, you know, my really, and it looks like I'm.

Tone it down, man. Hmm.

really concerned or something really bad news. And I remember always in practice, when someone asked me a question, I'm trying to explain it. And I scrunched my face and I go, oh my gosh, is it really bad? I go, no, no, no, I'm just thinking. I can't, I couldn't think and keep a, a basically a neutral phase at the same time. So they morphed into one, but I didn't realize I was doing that until, you know, one, two, three people said, Hey, is this really bad or what's going on? I'm like, no, no, no, I'm just concentrating. So. They're a little subtle. They don't have to be, you know, things that are harmful, but they're just the subconscious little cues, like an eye roll. Anytime someone says something to you and you're eye rolling, what that subconsciously says to someone is what you're saying is irrelevant. I have no respect for it. You subconsciously may be thinking that to a degree, but you don't realize how of putting that may be to the person that you're talking about who may be looking to you. who may be someone who really cares about you, that they're not getting that love back by virtue of your subconscious communication.

Yeah. And, and one of the things you just talking about this, like about subconsciousness, you, one of the things I think about is, you know, how, I don't know, maybe, I don't know if it's true, but in my opinion, this is just my opinion. Well, you know, when couples have been together for a very long time and they kind of morph like into each other. And, and I don't know if it's just like, if it's a tendency or something, like something happens, like their, their facial expressions or something, they just kind of morph as a couple. And I'm wondering, as you were talking, I'm wondering if like,

Yep. Yep.

blind spots, I wonder if they morph their blind spots together too. I wonder where the couple didn't have that blind spot earlier, but because they've been together for 20 years or so, it becomes the other person's blind spot. I don't know. What do you think?

Yeah. Well, it's interesting because they talk about in stages of relationship where you, um, where there's romantic love, right? And in the start you're blinded by that, you know, like this very things that you find endearing about the other person after a while, if things aren't going well, the very same things that annoy the heck out of you. Uh, but a lot of the times where in the initial stages, you're blinded to a whole lot of these things that you don't even see them. But a lot of the time, I think when someone knows you well, they will start identifying these blind spots over time. So yeah, they probably do Murph in terms of, you know, there could be the big overlap or I guess in some cases, common interests will come together. People will start spending more time together. So yeah, like anybody who knows Bettina and I knows that, knows us particularly through, you know, for our whole career in healthcare. We met 35 years ago. So anybody who knows me in that field knows Bettina and vice versa. So a lot of the times very rarely will be referred to as one without the other. However, what we have found is got something's cooking in his mind here. Cause for those of you not watching, Lawrence has just backed away from the microphone with a little Bruce Lee little snuff. He's gone, you've said something that's coming. So go, go, go for it. What are we going to say?

Yeah. Yeah. I just created the worst nightmare that's never going to happen, which is what if like Bettina and Karen actually went on a podcast recording and did a Wabi Sabi episode on us, on our blind spots or something. Man, that was just like a weird nightmare just going to hit me strongly and couldn't help but just laugh because the other alternative would be a scary moment.

Blonde spots. Yeah. Well, you know, just just on that's funny you say that because last night I was in and I had an interview on a web podcast or webinar should say with a women in chiropractic group in the UK and the tennis spoken to them several times so they knew about that knew about her and our background but really was the first opportunity I had the chance to talk to him and the theme came up and it was like hey we've had a great opportunity to talk to your lovely wife and whatever and now we're meeting you and I went great awesome. And so when I got off the podcast, but then I said, what did you talk about? I said, you just literally for an hour. And she was like, you're joking. I said, no, no, no, I'm being sincere. But it was, it was, it wasn't dirty. Um, you're airing dirty lawn or anything like that. But I definitely can see what you're talking about because suddenly people would go, yeah, you want the art of imperfection. Just come home and say these two clowns because you'd see out of imperfection in the flesh all day, every day.

You Yeah, see in our defense of that is that we don't see it. So, because that's our blind spot.

No we don't and we declare it and go hey it's out of imperfection it's an unsustainable perfection. And other people other people not us.

We're only talking about the imperfections that we are aware of and we're happy to share. We are not talking about any, yeah, we're not talking about any imperfections that we're blinded to, so therefore that's why you don't hear about it. And so in your eyes, the viewer is that you are just perfect as we are. Oh man. All right, so where should we take this? So we've got imperfection, obviously, like these, sorry, not imperfections, but these blind spots are often holding us back.

Exactly. Exactly.

and it is something that is very difficult to kind of navigate through. Is there, just for conversation's sake, is there a possibility where blind spots are actually good?

never thought of it that way. Actually, sorry, I had a thought, but no, ignorance is bliss basically. So a lot of the time, that's the only scenario that I could think of is if you don't know, you just happily, merrily go on your way and oblivious to what impact that you may be having on other people. Well, that's the only thing that I can think of. I'm not sure if that's along the lines of what you thought of. Yeah.

Yeah, so as you, yeah, go for it. Yeah. So I think of like a horse, right? You know, like a horse race, they have those, you know, blinders and I don't know if that's what they're called, but you know, as, as they block off the left and right side, they only have one singular focus. So sometimes I think certain blind spots allows you to like your, because you're oblivious to what's going on around the world or you're oblivious to that. You can't do something because you know, like, you know, it's doing the impossible where like someone, there's so many cases. I can't think of anything right at the top of my head. Whereas I'm sure that to most people that was impossible, but. in their mind, they didn't realize it was impossible, so they did it and then proved that it was not impossible. Just in our minds, we thought it was impossible. So I think in those circumstances, a blind spots can be helpful. And, you know, I'm just thinking about maybe, let's just say, you know, you grew up in a Western society, just say you grew up in Canada or America and, you know, certain, you know, certain things are done a certain way, but, you know, you have, here comes a, someone who is from, you know, India or someone from China who, who's never been exposed to that type of culture.

Mm -hmm. Hmm.

and says, well, why can't you do it this way? And then all of a sudden they start doing this way and you're like, oh, I never thought about that way, you know? And that could be done in sport or it could be done in invention or things like that. Those are, you know, I'm sure there's stories like that that actually allows, their blind spot actually allowed them to be oblivious to the rest of society and the limitation of what society puts on them that allowed them to actually create something or do something extraordinary that was never thought.

Hmm.

to be done.

Yeah, it's a good point you raised because I'm just going to use the example in sport, which we quite often default to, but a lot of the times players in say Australian rules have grown up playing this sport. But a lot of the time, probably, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago, there was a infiltration of other players from other codes. And a lot of the time, particularly Australia, they had Gaelic football that would come in. And so they had a different, they've got, it's probably the two closest games.

Mm -hmm.

in terms of some of the skill sets that could be transferable, but they had enough differences in there that someone who had a talent here would actually go about things. And it's in their neurology to go about and approach a different way as opposed to someone who's only ever done it one way. So I definitely think that as a blind spot, that can be some skill sets coming in from different perspectives could be really handy. Just going back to the point that I made, I think that what I... How I explain that now or rationalize in my mind is, you know, with the stages of learning where they talk about unconscious incompetence, conscious competence. So effectively, you're looking at four stages of learning. And the first one is unconscious competence, which is what you don't know what you don't know. And quite often we talk about the bliss, which is what you're saying. Bliss and focus on what you're doing. The next level is conscious incompetence where you suddenly become aware of what you don't know. And that's technically the most stressful moment.

Mm -hmm.

because that's when you quite often feel overwhelmed. So in answer to your question and in support of what I said earlier, I think that model really explains to it and goes to, I guess, expand on that a lot more with a bit more information if you ever want to look into that.

Yeah, I think sport is a perfect analogy. I mean, the things that come to my mind and you mentioned even like, uh, you know, kicking a ball, you know, like so Australian rule football, like there are well renowned kickers in Australia and you know, they're big legs and they're very athletic. And now you're seeing more and more of the kickers in the NFL, uh, the sport that I listened to that they actually started to be more and more actually the 49ers who I follow, they drafted an Australian and that's the Australian kicker and he's a punter and.

Correct. Yeah.

man, the kicks that he does are incredible because not because he's just the puncher, he can kick long distance, but it's actually the way he kicks that ball. It puts on a certain spin that it makes it difficult for the receiver to, yeah, exactly. And he's got different spins in different ways. You know, on TV you don't notice it, but a lot of the times it creates just enough of a hesitation or just enough where he loses the ball when they catch the ball, it gives a chance, the team, our team to kind of go after the ball. And...

She's like a torpedo. Yeah, yeah.

You know, he's been one of the best punchers in the NFL, but something like that where you, they wouldn't have considered that. Actually. Another one comes to mind was I think was the rowing team. I believe it was the Australian rolling team. I could not, I don't know exactly which one it was, but where, um, they, it was unconventional where, you know, one of the teams during the Olympics that they actually decided to, um, go with height, you know, and they went with like, okay, well let's go with a certain height and, and a certain length of their arms and legs. And they put these guys to get. through these guys together and they actually created a gold medal team out of that and then everybody copy that. So there's certain things in sports that are really interesting where it's unconventional thinking that kind of gets them to a certain area. And here's the one that actually didn't improve. It just actually, you know, in basketball, for example, we all kind of know is how we shoot a free throw is we always shoot overhand, but what's the most logical and the most probable way to shoot a basketball from the foul line is actually underhand. you know, and it was actually done a lot in the 70s. I can't think of it was Will Chamberlain or one of those guys. Actually, no, it wasn't Will Chamberlain. It was a guy who just kept on doing it. And he had like a 90 % or whatever success rate, but it's not cool. Right? So therefore, no one does it on underhand, but it is the most successful way. So that's the blind spot there is like, they're not going for probability because there's too much social pressure that stops them from actually taking the thing that's most probable to actually get it right. So it's just interesting around this whole entire topic because it, it, You see it as you start to explain it, you start to see it in every aspect and facets of life.

And it's interesting when, you know, in that scenario where you talk about the underarm less cool methodology of shooting baskets, effectively there's a process of, and that's really what I was going to say is how do, two questions that I wanted to pose was number one, what do people do traditionally when blind spots are pointed out to them? And number two, how do you go about identifying and communicating to someone? that there may be a blind spot because they're two different things. So do you want to start off with either of those or do you want me to rip into it?

Yeah, I think, you know, okay, let's go start with the communication one. You know, communicating a blind spot to someone, I think it depends on the relationship you have with that person. I think most people would be offended by, you know, you pointing out something because it's high, it gives a heightened unconsciously awareness that they, they have this thing going on and they don't want to admit to that because they don't, well, it's a blind spot. So they wouldn't know that's there. And so I think it really requires to have an intimate relationship in a sense, not intimate, like it has to be. you know, a partner or anything, but intimate relationships are that you're close enough that they're willing to take feedback from you. It can't just be a pass or buy, right? So it's got to be someone that you have to have established some sort of trust with that person before I feel like I can communicate that to someone. And that's hard, right? You want to tell people the truth, but at the same time, I don't have that in me to be able to tell someone that I don't know well about a blind spot, unless they have trust in me. And so therefore that trust goes a long way.

Yeah.

I think it's also circumstantial and situational, but meaning like, I think the best thing to do is not to talk to them about their blind spot in the moment, because it's too heated. It's too, you know, most of the time it's usually heated or it's like right on the brink of something going on. You probably don't want to be talking to them about that. It's probably best to bring that up, say a partner, say, you know, a friend when you're not in that situation to kind of go, Hey, do you remember, or do you notice that? you know, so something is offside because they're not in that moment, they're talking about something different. So I think those are ways that I would probably do it at. You know, obviously as a coach, you do that all the time with partners or a little bit more sensitive, you gotta like a sensitive nature. So therefore, you know, cause there's a lot of downside, especially the couch. So, you know, you gotta make sure you, you gotta, you know, sometimes you don't actually just talk about it at all. And sometimes you kind of need to navigate that gently.

Yep. Yep. Thank you. Yeah, I think you're spot on. It's the sensitivity of the whole situation. And I think that there is a definitely a way to go about it because there's some people who by nature say, hey, I'm brutally honest. That strategy may not work for someone who, when you're pointing out blind spots, because if you push people too much into truth, they'll reject it and come back and defend their position with gusto. So. I think I liked what you said and that's exactly what I have found has worked really well. And particularly gaining permission, you know, asking someone, hey, curious or hey, listen, you know, it's not, it can't be unsolicited advice. It's got to be qualified and you need permission. So it's like, hey, I'm curious or hey, are you open to some feedback or an observation that I've made? And so in that way, you're testing the waters and you're collapsing any resistance by ensuring that.

Yes.

you've created that trusted environment whereby you can communicate that information. So you're all in once you watch your read, watch it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. But it's diplomacy skills. That's right. I think once you make the decision, you got no, I've got to go in. I'm going in. Then it's the ability to navigate a sensitive area.

You're kind of committed though, aren't you though when you say that? Because you're like, no, I don't want it. I'm not open. Well, you're kind of like, well, but what, you're not going to tell me now? So you're kind of hooked.

by, I guess, getting out of confrontation and actually trying to get to core truths. And to me, that's really it. It's like, you know, I guess if you reconfirm where it's coming from and you have to be acutely aware of tonality and all those kinds of things and context and making it about that situation, I think it's really profound. People will notice when you're holding back and people will also notice that... when other people are defensive. So some people see that and it's a red flag to a bull. Other people go, we may only get to 10 % this time. That's okay. We're incrementally increasing that, but the process of helping someone through is the goal. So that's definitely the case in there. So we identified how you do it, but have you come across situations where you've delivered blind spot information or feedback to someone and... you know, what are the most common, I guess, ways that people receive that or not receive that that you've seen?

I think it's a mixture to be honest. I mean, obviously the people that respect you and you've done it right with diplomacy, I think they, they will, they will take it on on board. But I think they, I think the majority of the time is that they, okay, here's a couple of situations. One scenario is that they go, Oh yeah, I do do that. So it's like instant recognition. That's probably, yeah. I don't think that's as common. I don't think like, I think the most common one is like,

So they go to ownership and awareness, right? Yep. Yep. Yep.

Really? Like they, which is more of they didn't know until you brought it up. And then they go into more reflective state and then it takes them a little while for them to actually process it. So I think that's another, that's probably the most common one. I'm trying to see if there's anybody who rejects, yeah, I'm sure there's people who reject you completely and just will have. deniability of that ever happening and actually resist and will also justify their actions. And I think those are sort of the three sort of most common reactions, I would say.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. They're the three that I would have said. And I guess the only other ones would have come up with excuses and reasons, which are really along the lines of that. So they're the ones where we either, I agree with you totally. If someone is really the biggest gift you can give someone, if you're honestly giving them heartfelt information like that, whether it's a professional or more of a personal relationship. Awareness is that's what I found too. Some of the people go, wow, I had no idea. That's when you know it's actually landed and it's, and they've actually heard that. Now you're right. They need to process it and, and, and sit with it to try and reference it. They may go through emotions. They may go through frustration, anger, guilt, shame, whatever, et cetera. But it's really important, I think in holding the space to allow them to cycle through those emotions until they can either. ask for more clarification and or use it as an opportunity to grow from it. So I think that's really important. The ones that we find are really difficult that often lead to either conflict or need more work are the ones where, as you said, denial, justification and rejection. Basically, it's like, no, that's not possible. It's really difficult to, we've probably come across the same scenarios. The hardest person to coach is someone who's uncoachable.

Yeah. And I think the reason why that is, is because, you know, the type of personality that, you know, I'm sure there's certain personalities, there are certain things that I probably don't want to hear it, or I don't want, I'm blinded by it obviously. And I deny it. And then most of the reason why is because you hold yourself in a certain identity that you don't want that to be shaken. And you know, when someone starts to use, you see yourself or you hold yourself or you present yourself and have identity that you think. of the sea of you. And then when someone brings up something that is the exact opposite of that identity, that that creates a really strong knife to the heart because it just starts to realize like, what do you mean? And you will push back guaranteed because it is like someone telling you that you're not that person that you think you are in your head. And that's really hard to, to, to, to accept. And so I think that's why that this strong defensive mechanisms are there is because there you it's almost like this internal. human brain defense to try to justify or deny or push back against that identity that you have in your head. Because identity is everything in a sense, it's for most people.

Yeah, well, a lot of Tony Robbins always said that, you know, preserving your identity of self is a fundamental human need is like to be consistent with your identity or act consistent with your vision of your identity are very important. And so if information that you are receiving from the outside world conflicts with how you see that, it's going to be pretty challenging. It's going to be pretty confronting. It's about looking at this and saying, OK, Where's the truth in this? And if you can look at this and go, where is the truth in this? Like you may not want to hear it. And goodness knows when, you know, I've received information and feedback that I didn't want to hear. It's uncomfortable and whatever, but you do go through stages where you go, okay, where's the truth in this? And I know this person, they care about me. What would be the objective and emotion and emotive? process that they're going through in order for them to communicate this to me. And so how can I sit with this and find the truth in it? Not what I want to reject, but where's the truth in it? And I think the moment that you can start acknowledging one or two threads of truth, it then starts to collapse your resistance and you can actually start working with that information.

And you can actually see like that, that hard, the difficulty of not being consistent with your identity in this, in today's world, because social media is designed algorithmically to put yourself to hear an echo chamber of the same thoughts and beliefs that you hold dearly to yourself. And so therefore you often see, and are reinforced by beliefs that you already strongly hold, which only then enforces that belief even stronger. And so because you go down that road, because you have these strongly held beliefs and identity, when someone questions that, typically you don't, we're not in a situation, especially in today's world, in the day and age, in the year that we live in, you are less likely, and this is the problem, I think, that we're not, actually engaging in debates to see the other side. We rather sit with our beliefs and stick with our identity and the belonging to that tribe versus questioning whether or not that is the truth. And this is, and we can talk about so many different topics here that are like this. It could be in terms of health, it could be in terms of life. It could be in terms of money. It could be in terms of like policies and governments. And there's so many hot, hot heated topics at the moment. They're so divisive that allows us to like they're the opposite side is questioning your identity. And you're most likely going to double down the higher probably that you're going to double down on that identity rather than questioning yourself and going, could I be wrong? I'm not saying I'm like, I'm not really good at this either, but it's definitely.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

something that happens a lot in our lifetime. And we have to really think that through sometimes to question is the truth? Are we actually seeking truth? Are we seeking consistency in our identity? And that's really hard.

is the truth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, interestingly, from a perspective of debating or, or having discussions, the hardest way or the hardest place to move forward from where you have positional or people have specific positions and they stake a claim into the ground and go, I stand for this, I stand for this. And fundamentally what you're then trying to do is, is sway someone to your way of thinking. And it's been shown to be the least effective. strategy as opposed to going, okay, here's where I'm at, what can we agree on? What are the areas that we have commonality in? And in doing so, you'll then, I guess, expressing that you're open and you're actually looking for a solution as opposed to a my way or your way. And that my way or your way is a massive blind spot because it means that you're not open to other possibilities. And particularly in negotiations, et cetera, it can't. It can't be the case. Yes, you may have your biases and people who can identify them and be aware of them and declare them and work through them are the people who actually generally get much better outcomes and much better communication and connection with people and generally make greater leeway than people that just stick into the ground of stance and go, I'm not shifting unless I have it this way or that way. And that just doesn't...

Hmm.

doesn't allow the conversational and negotiation progress in any way, shape or form.

Yeah, I remember when I was in university, especially in chiropractic college, and the class was really divided on chiropractic philosophy. And I remember having these massive debates and conversations for years. And we thought we were right, and they thought they were right. And it wasn't until I graduated and went into the real world, and you started to realize, I'm like, oh, well, maybe I wasn't fully right. Right? and maybe they weren't fully wrong either. And you start to go through this journey of discovering what is right for you. And I think that, I think it takes a lot to recognize and admit where you're wrong because that goes against the identity, right? And so it's really challenging. And I think, you know, your 20s are a discovery period of figuring out who you are, what you're about. And I think because we're so impressionable. You see this happening right now on campuses everywhere. And you see all these university students are so passionate. And I get it, that's the age that you want to be passionate about. But the thing is, is that it's not until much later when they reflect back, if they really kind of look at it and going, was I really right? It was right at the time. It felt good at the time, but is it true? And I'm not saying they're right or wrong, I have no idea. Depending on what topic you're talking about. But it's just sort of thinking that we go through these phases of life. as you identify these stages of life and learning where sometimes we are just in the path of way of thinking and, but realizing not until much later with some maturity, the hindsight, and you start to look back and go, maybe I was a little bit too harsh or maybe I was thinking one way, you know, blindly because we never actually did any critical thinking. And this is my issue regards to, you know, school and school systems now is that I'm not sure we're actually teaching kids to critically think. I think we're actually just, indoctrinating them into certain way of thinking rather than actually allowing people to choose. And it's really difficult because there's so much information out there is very difficult to kind of decide on what is the truth. But then again, I think the only way for the future to exist is to allow each independent to actually have a process to think independently and make a choice for themselves or what's right for them. I don't think there is one way of truth. I think there's multiple ways of truth. It's really dependent on how you see truth to yourself and then hold true and believe that and but also act accordingly.

Hmm. You know, it's interesting you said about education because I was researching some fascinating studies recently about the teaching of mathematics. And historically, a lot of people have a wound about mathematics that you know, not everybody, but some people hear maths and they go into a cold sweat. Right. And interestingly, there were educators who'd conducted these research projects that were talking about the way we teach maths is not empowering people to be comfortable with this. And I can't remember, I think it might have been Japan. It might have been Japan where the way that they take or China, not sure now, second guessing myself, but the way they go about teaching maths. No, it's not an Asian. Yeah, that's that's a generalisation rather than a blind spot, right? But but but but okay, totally good. But it comes down to the way the probably the methodology because

Your blind spots asians are really good at math. But it's true.

what they were doing and you may know more about this than I do, Lawrence. But in terms of way that they went about teaching mathematics was rather than just focusing on is it right and you're wrong, they wanted, they encouraged people to be wrong and then show people how many ways they were wrong until they could get to the right answer. And so effectively what that was showing people was the multiple pathways and how to course correct. Now, educators, this may be used in in Japan or China, I can't remember where, but this research has been available to the Western world for a long, long time, and yet nothing has changed. So if you've got information that's out there that's turning people onto mathematics by virtue of how we teach them and you're ignoring it, that's got to be a blind spot in education.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I can't say that's true or not, but like I can give you some experience that, you know, I studied in Hong Kong for four years between the ages of five and nine. So that is a senior kindergarten to grade three. When I got back to Canada, my mathematical ability at nine years old was far superior than my peers, not because I was smarter, but it was mostly because the way I was taught in math. I was doing multiplications, I don't know, probably in grade one. But I also enjoyed it. There was this love of it. And I remember I went to see some of my cousins, I think, second cousins or whatever in China, and they were showing me, as a kid, I still remember this, I was still in China, and they were showing me how to multiply the short way between like,

That's my point, that's my point. Yeah.

you know, 12 times, so like something between the teens or something between 11 and 20. If you multiply that number by another number of the same thing, here's a shortcut to actually do it without having to do a long multiplication. I'm like, oh, that's so cool. And I think that's what you're saying is that there's so many ways to solve a problem, but it's like they're teaching you multiple ways to solve problems quicker, faster, or easier. Really, the end of the day, it's not how you, it's really, as long as you get the answer right, how you get there is multiple ways of doing it. Whereas I think the Western society is like, no, this is the only way. And that actually, you're probably true because when my kids went through school, you know, in Australia and in maybe here, you know, they would get the right answer, but they would get it. The teacher always wanted to show their work and the way they did certain things wasn't necessarily the way. And so therefore be knocked down and penalized. because of that and I'm like, well, hey, like they're doing it a different way, but why does it matter as long as they sort of, as long as their way works as well? And the answer is correct. I think that that's where I think what you're describing is actually finding different pathways to kind of get there. And I think that's really important. And that's the challenge. Life is not about one way only, right? And this is where I find the school. The schools are seeing, most schools are teaching that this is the only way to teach. This is the only way to learn. And they're not adapt, they're adapting. I mean, the way they're learning now is very different than what I learned, but I don't think they're adapting fast enough in terms of the way the human brain's working. And I think it's a challenge. I don't know how the education system can be solved. But for one thing is it's not about memorization. Like this is, you know, memorization of what we kind of learn, just like memorize, memorize. I think right now it's like, how do we teach our kids to think, you know, make decisions, how to solve problems? Like those are the things that are most important.

Mm.

And I think that if we can give them an advantage at a young age, it will give them a much more, so it's just being in math, for example, because I was, I guess I was good at math since I was grade four, I always had that advantage over everybody else throughout my whole entire career, even into university, because I thought I was smarter, not because I was Asian, right? Because I thought I was, I knew I was smarter. So therefore I had that belief in myself to be smarter. So it almost made me think that I was smarter. And so therefore I did better.

Mmm.

And so like it created the almost, I guess, a blind spot to that. I'm not, not smart, but I just believed in that I was better than everybody else in physics and math and anything to do with mathematical things.

Good. Yeah, well that was, that became a self -fulfilling prophecy and a belief that you actually could use to your advantage. And that's why I'm hearing that. But that becomes a blind spot for people. So just in that example, if people haven't been shown pathways and ways to follow that curiosity and find their own multiple pathway, they've now gone, nah, maths, don't really want to think about it. That becomes a blind spot to all other possibilities. And you don't even know why, because your second, third grade...

That's right.

process didn't teach you the skill or the process of learning that. So that becomes a total blunts, but you're not even aware of. And I think it's been, I love what you said about problem solving, because to me, let's future pace this and look at where society is going, where the ability to use tools, AI is, it's not going to be in the collection of information. It's going to be, how do we use this now? How do I incorporate it? And to me, that's always the dynamic. nature of that. It's like, great, everything is without, it comes to life, it becomes three dimensional, multidimensional, once you can use whatever information you have to do whatever you want with it. And that, if we haven't learned that process, that becomes a stagnation point as I say it.

Yeah. Yeah. And. Yeah, you know, this goes back to I think it's Carol du ex. The work right and run mindset book, right? So like, you know, the one of the biggest blind spot I find with kids, and I'm very cautious about, you know, my kids with this is that the blind spot is thinking they're either smarter than not smart. And Carol do or talks a lot about that, right. And it's not about being smart. It's about actually doing the work.

Mindset book, mindset.

to solve the problems, right? The effort is actually more important than whether you're smart, because what they talked a lot about is like, if your kids really smart, you know, if they get good marks, and you go, oh, you're so smart, and you know, go through grade four, grade five, grade six, grade seven, at some point, they're gonna meet their match, right? Where it's like, no longer they fail the test, or they, you know, they found someone smarter than them, all of a sudden they go, oh, okay, that means I'm not smart anymore, right? And they reach their limit, but.

Effort, yeah, yeah.

you know, I really try with my kids and I hope they learn the lesson. I don't know. I only time will tell is that I always tell them it's like, you're not like, it's not that you're brilliant and smart because you're genetically smarter. Uh, you know, your brilliant is your brilliance and your marks you get is because of the effort you put into it. Always, you know, how much time and effort and I always try to really get them to focus since a very young age to encourage the effort that they put in because that is what's going to determine it. Cause I mean,

Hmm.

it doesn't really matter. I don't even care about the marks, but the marks is just the results is going to give you some sort of measurement stick. But you know, knowing that I think what I'm saying, I guess, is that the blind spot a lot of people will have is because they told themselves, I'm not good at math. Or they told themselves, I'm not, you know, for me is like, I'm never good. I'm not good at English. My grammar sucks. You know, like, I know I've told that story many times. And to myself, and you know, but I also recognize I'm like,

Hmm. Hmm. Mmm.

sometimes my writing is actually pretty damn good, you know, like, it might not be grammatically correct or whatever, but I think I write pretty decent, you know, when it comes to, you know, certain communications and certain styles, I think I speak quite well and influence. So I can't be that bad. And so I kind of spent the time as an adulthood to kind of rewrite some of those blind spots that I used to have, thinking that I'm never good at those things. So I think we think, oh, I guess what I'm trying to make sure that listeners and viewers are looking at is,

Hmm hmm. Yeah.

you know, maybe question some of those belief systems that you actually have in your life to see whether or not is actually true. And where did it come from? Like, did you make it up? Was there actual proof of that? And the instinct answers the instinctual answers? Yes, of course. Right? Look at my marks. But but is it true on how you interpret that result? Like what you just said, like just because you failed in math or to go to C and or D in math, does it mean that you weren't smart in math or just that maybe you weren't taught the right way?

Mmm.

in a way that you could understand, right? That could also just be as true as that you're not good at math. And so you can apply that to everything, right? You can apply that to dating and like, I'm not good enough, or I'm not pretty enough, I'm not good looking enough or whatever. Or you can attribute that to, oh, I'm an introvert. You know, I'm not good at talking to people. BS, have you tried? Is it because you're shy or is it because you haven't really given a shot? Like, I'm an introvert, you know, but I've learned how to be extroverted.

Hmm. him. Hmm.

but I'm still introvert, right? Cause I still get more energy by spending time with myself, but I can be extroverted, meaning I can still talk to people and be outgoing, it takes more energy. So I think we just gotta be very careful with some of the blindside beliefs that we talk about to ourselves, which is what you started off the conversation with is the self -talk and really start to question it because your life could be totally different in the future if you just relook at some of those beliefs that you have and ask yourself, what if I'm wrong? What if I'm wrong? How would I behave differently? And I think life starts to change and life starts to shift and man, what a beautiful life that could be.

Yeah, I totally agree with a lot of what you said there, Lawrence. A lot of the work from Carol's work, I agree. It's always about praise the effort, not the outcome. Because what that does is it expands, and particularly in children area, expands their self -esteem and their capacity to self -reference as opposed to needing validation from outside. And it's the cornerstone of a lot of the difference between a fixed and growth mindset. And really, at its essence, identifying blind spots is a growth mindset. It's being open to new learning and it's not you're perfect and that's it and you never have problems. It's like, how do you keep evolving? How do you keep adapting? How do you cycle through the imperfections to grow in your mindset and to progress and follow through? So totally, totally in agreement is what you're saying. And I think it's, and even in that too, you know, from a parenting perspective, you may not know, your blind spot may not. be your sorry, let me start that again. Your blind spot may well be that you don't even realize the subtleness of your support for your children is actually not really serving them in the long run. And, and that was a really confronting when I first was exposed to that. It's like, holy smoke, I'm praising them for the outcome. But now they'll think that unless they get that outcome, they're not deserving of.

Hmm

love and praise and whatever. So I totally had to rewire how I went about that as well in terms of praising the effort and the outcome took care of itself or if it didn't, the kids self -esteem wasn't smashed in the process.

Yeah, no, exactly. And I think it's so important for us to reevaluate, look at our blind spots, look at the thing, evaluate. I think we should always constantly evaluate. You constantly evaluate your belief system, constantly evaluate your, you know, the surroundings, your environment, the people you're around. We've been talking multiple podcasts on these different topics. Most of the time it's probably like, yeah, I'm good. Like this is good situation. I'm hanging with the right people and all this stuff. But sometimes you get to a realization like, hmm, maybe, maybe I should change. maybe I should move countries, you know, all these things will come up. So I'm not trying to plant any seeds or anything, but guys, I hope that was helpful to you guys to look at blind spots. I think this is a great conversation we had to kind of navigate what blind spots mean, you know, where sometimes it can hinder us, but also how can you help us? We also talked about how to navigate and how to relook at that. The reality is, is that we just want to open a conversation for you to have a conversation with yourself and see if there's any blind spots that you want to look at, because what we're trying to do is help you find your way through life.

Hehehehe

through imperfection, knowing that as nothing's going perfect, but find a way to actually help you to live a better life. So this is Wabi Sabi. I hope to see you on the next episode next week. Take care.