Dealing with Distractions

the bus.

Well, welcome to WabiSavi. Today is the art of imperfection and talk about imperfection. This is a, we started recording today. Well, actually, let's face the facts. I was walking my dog with my wife and, uh, and then I get this text and then, cause I have my phone always on silent, mostly cause I don't get distracted. And then as I was trying to open the door with my phone, I see there's a message from Jim and I'm like, Oh, I knew exactly what this message was about. The message was. Where are you? Are we recording today? And here I am 10 minutes late. And I deeply apologize publicly to you, Jim, that I got distracted and which is fitting for today's episode as we're talking about dealing with distractions and lo and behold, I was distracted that I totally forgot.

it. Yep, yep, yeah. Yeah, kudos to you, Lawrence, because you threw yourself willingly under the bus. I, uh, when we looked at what we're going to talk about today and we just had a bit of a laugh. And so if, if, if we got on here laughing, that was why is because I went, okay, mate, you could go there if you want. Let me see. You're going to throw yourself on the bus. He said, absolutely. So what fitting way to introduce this topic than something from the, uh, personal files of both of us, or one of us really this time next time it could be.

Well, yeah, absolutely. And I appreciate that Jim is such a gentleman that he would never have thrown me on the, thrown me on the behind the bus, but I knew that I had to sacrifice myself and put myself underneath the bus for him to back into it. So let's talk about distractions. I think, you know, one of the, one of the key elements of that, we are constantly distracted. And I would say if I have to look back last five years, you know, if you have to ask the question, you know, five years ago, were you more distracted now when you were before? And then if I asked you 10 years ago, are you more distracted now or five years ago, comparatively to 10 years ago, I would imagine most people say we're more distracted now more than ever. Now, that doesn't apply to everyone. Of course, everybody's circumstances are different. But I would say as a whole society wise, I would say, you know, we are in a situation where distractions surround us, mostly because, you know, we have more accessibility to a lot of different things. You know, the phone itself, there's one little thing on the phone here. It's a... not a danger, but it is definitely one of those things that can create a massive amounts of distractions because it has constant access to us.

Yeah, and you know, it's interesting that you say about the distractions, Lawrence, because you're right. It's I guess it's a willing, it's an unwillingness to sit in the emotion that often we need to sit into. So I remember as a kid, you know, there'd be hours and days you say, I'm bored and I'm bored and I've got nothing to do. And you literally had nothing to do. but you found something and it was through those moments that if you cycle through them, you found something productive to do. Whereas here, it's almost as if we're addicted to the entertainment components. Every second has to be not even productively learning, but I've got to have my concentration focused on something at all the time. And if we don't, we don't sit in that wonder, in that phase where... not actively doing something. And I think over time we've become addicted to that, I guess, in terms of the accessibility that I, I know I've had to work very hard at not being distracted by building in safeguards and systems to ensure that I can stay focused on what I'm doing, because otherwise the default will definitely be to what's more entertaining right now.

You know, I think the easy default, I'm not sure if this is correct or not, but I think the easy default is that we, you know, claim ourselves to be, you know, attention deficit in a way, right? And, and I, you know, I reflect back on my, you know, recent like life and I am really bad at staying focused. Like it is ridiculously tough to like concentrate on anything specific, like one task. for long periods of time. I'm just admitting this. I really struggle. Whereas I found like when I was younger, I had this ability to stay somewhat focused. I don't think I was always very focused on one thing, but I was able to kind of maintain. But I find it much harder now. I can easily go down rabbit holes if I decide to. It's almost like this is the problem, right? You can just feel it. Like as I open up my phone or open up my iPad, I know I'm supposed to do something. But I easy to just to go, I pressed on the YouTube video or the YouTube or press on the Facebook app or press on the like, it's so easy to go do those things, whatever app you're you're you're used to. And then you down that rabbit hole. And then realizing like, I was here for something. And I don't remember exactly what I was here for. And it's I really struggled that lately. And I'm not sure if it's an age thing or just because we have so much bombardment, we're trying to hold so much in our heads. And I've been trying very, very hard.

Yeah.

to be a little bit more disciplined around that.

Yeah. Well, the whole thing around the shiny object syndrome is very much something that takes your attention from what you're doing to something that is more interesting and more fun. You know, like I know a lot of people, there's actually a lot of conjecture about banning TikTok. And I don't have it. And, and some people that I do know have it. They go, look, you by nature, I can get very obsessed in things myself. I can get really focused on things. I've had to just go. that potentially is not good for me. So I, because effectively the, the, um, the algorithm specifically would only ever feed you what you really want to see. And so I'd suddenly be going down, as you said, this rabbit hole and suddenly a whole chunk of time is gone that I had no discipline around. And it is really, really easy, you know, just like it's interesting, you know, to stay healthy, to be healthy, to eat healthy is more expensive than just defaulting to what everybody else does.

Yeah. Yeah.

And now it's gotten to the point where if you want to get stuff done, the energy and the discipline is actually not falling down what is easy, but actually working hard to just stay on the path that you want to get to.

Yeah. And for me, I think it's the challenge of me trying or the desire to want to learn and grow. So like I have this thing about me that I'm constantly learning, I'm constantly growing. And I want to utilize every single moment of my life or a moment to try to do that. Now, I've done that I've been successful at it. I mean, every time I wash my dishes, if I'm alone, I have earphones on. If I'm walking the dog alone, I have earphones on. driving the car, I have something playing in the background. It's usually not music. Yesterday, I decided to play some music for about 10 minutes. It was weird. Not to say I don't enjoy it. I'll play music with kids in the car. But for me, like I'm driving myself, I'm on an audible book or I'm on a podcast, I'm watching like into a YouTube channel, like I'm constantly, you know, on a plane, you know, walking like, and I remember, like walking, sort of like listening to this, and I know exactly where I was walking, you know, like, that's like that, you know, the Part of a book, right? Exactly.

I did that too, man. I did that too. Yeah, I totally remember. But you're anchoring that moment, that memory, because you go, hey, I remember walking past this spot and suddenly it all comes back to you. So you're just accessing the memory of it based on the locality. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. Yep. And, and, and, uh, and what's my favorite thing to do if I'm by my city myself, whether it be in London, Madrid, or whatever, I'm walking by myself and I'm just like listening for hours. It's awesome. Like it's, it's an amazing, you know, sort of feeling. And so the reason why I'm saying this is because like that's the pole, right? So that's like the, the pole I'm not. So, but that is the distraction itself because I'm, I'm so focused on that because of desires there, the pro not the problem, but like, because we have so much access to so much knowledge and information, you're never gonna stop learning. Like you just can't absorb enough information. And so therefore it's like endless entertainment. Like if you wanna watch movies, if you love watching movies or television, like literally you can sit there for the rest of your life and never be bored because there's enough television shows and movies in the past and also being created that you could never be bored. And so that's the pull, right? Like the thing is is that,

Yeah. Yeah.

How do we break ourselves from the distractions, which are healthy distractions in a way, like I'm talking about healthy distractions, but actually focus in on the things that are important, which is actions that you need to take. And that's sometimes where we kind of falter. And I'm acknowledging that because I know I need to have that discipline to go, no, it's time to work now. We need to really kind of do some work here otherwise. And that stuff there or that lesson or that podcast, I'll get back to that in the later. but as a pull because it's a desire at the same time.

Yeah, you're so right. I mean, during this week, like two days ago, I had to make a quick trip to Madrid and I was actually on the train, which is really a great way of traveling because unlike the inconvenience of a plane, you literally get on there and you're set and you don't lose wifi. You don't go to, so it takes you no time to get on and off. But it was two and a half ways there, two and a half ways back. I disciplined myself to read one way there, but I was tired coming back. So I listened to audio. The easiest thing in the world for me would be to go here, I'm just going to watch another action thriller, which is kind of my genre, you know, like these martial arts and, you know, assassins and spies. I just love that genre. So I could very easily do that. But I really have to work hard to just go, dude, that's not going to, it's going to entertain you for a while. That's great. But this is not going to move the needle. And I really, I really have to work very hard at that because I can very easily go down.

So one of the best things, you know, when I, especially when I lived in Australia, um, I used to travel a lot and the best thing about Australia is being far, which means no matter where you go, especially when you lived in Perth, no matter which direction you go, you have, you're playing for at least three to five hours, even if you're staying in the country and you're definitely 24 hours, if you're traveling outside the country. And the best thing sometimes was, I know it sounds strange with the door closed, you know, when that plane door closed, it was like no wifi.

Oh yeah, yep.

no one can get access to me for at least 10 hours because you know, until I get to the next stop, we know whether it be Singapore or Dubai, no one can hold to me. And so therefore, you know, it's like focus. And so, but so then now comes the problem, the rub is, oh, right now is like movie time. And that's the first thing we all do, right? But, and so I had to like really just, I'm like, okay, like I have to say to myself, like, dude, right, it's 24 hours on a plane, right? So you're gonna have to have some sleep. I know you have all these movies and you have access to all these entertainment.

Yeah. I could do anything, yeah, yeah.

but you gotta do a little bit of work, right? So how I discipline myself was, the first thing I had to do was actually work on the plane. It's like, that's the first thing I had to do.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So I have to like, get my laptop out on my iPad and like, you just have to work like the first. So especially long haul flights, usually, I know that's kind of really strange. It's giving tactical. I've been doing this for a long time. Right? So the plane, you know, if you're, you know, you're going for like a 10 hour leg, 12 hour leg, you know, the food doesn't come immediately, right? The food usually takes about an hour, hour and a half. So I know like my reward, because once the food comes in front of me, I can't, I can't work because you know, I have no room now.

I was gonna ask you what your strategy was because I've got a strategy too and I'm curious and then I'll compare it. So keep going, keep going.

So therefore I'm like, my, my strategy is work until the food comes. Right. So that's usually about 60 to 90 minutes. And my reward is the movie I choose to watch while I'm eating. And that's my discipline. And if it all goes to hell, my distractions are too much or I can't get safe food. At least I got 60 to 90 minutes of work on that plane ride. And that would, that would be my discipline. That's my strategy. What about yours?

I love it. It's actually really, it's very similar actually. We cut from the same cloth sometimes I think of it, but I do exactly the same thing because it's along the lines of eat the big frog first. And so for me, what's the hardest thing to do right now? And that would be, I get into work straight away. So I get the work almost identical up until the point where I'm, there's meals because, you know, like maneuvering it on your lap is not practical, right? So I get, Um, when I first get on while there's mucking around and whatever, I screen and work out, okay, if I'm going to watch something, that's what I'm going to watch. And then I get stuck into work up until almost exactly the movie time. And then when I'm eating, I'm watching a movie and then the discipline is, okay, I'm going to stop it. But then I have a system and then go, I won't watch a movie totally. If I've got 10, 12 hours, I'll go from there. If I've done all the work, I'll then I'll go, I'm going to read now. I'll put it in a book. And when I'm starting to get tired, I'll transition to an audio book. And then I've got, that's about as much learning as I can tolerate. And then I'll go to the movie and I can go there up until the point where I go, I'm tired now I'll sleep. So it's kind of like this graduated process. I know it sounds very obsessive, but I just find it works really well for me because I get what I need to do. I do the reading, which I really enjoy uninterrupted reading. When that gets too tiring, I'll listen to audio books. And then the reward is the movie up until the point where I go, I think I'll go to sleep now.

Yeah. And so the, the, what goes to show is that both, so there's two things, right? One is we're eating the big frog first, right? Uh, the biggest frog for in the second, there's a reward after that. And so you, you, so if anybody's picking up the strategy, there's the two main things that that's similar to both of us, right? We, and I think that's really important. It's actually how we discipline within the day. Like for me, like, you know, as we've mentioned several times, I work out first thing in the morning. Right. And, and, and I get up at five, 10, I go to my class and so I'm done. Like I don't have to think about it. Whereas if I left it. You know, if I went to a 12 o 'clock class or 10 o 'clock class or four o 'clock, there's too much distractions that I have to constantly fight against to not to show up, right? And not to fight against the will of not wanting to show up. And so like, it's that that pull, it's too energetically draining for me. So I just go, I get up and the only thing I have to fight is just, are you going to stay in bed or are you going to go? And one of the things I love about my app, I love and hate.

Yeah.

is that I'm on my app where I book my class because the class is always full. Can't cancel like until three hours like the within three hours of the class can't cancel but if there's a you know 550 like I would have to cancel like 350 in the middle of night to do actually 250 in the middle of the night and I'm not doing that. So therefore like I'm committed if I and I this the thing I have the guilt in my head is if I don't show up, I'm letting someone else down. because basically I could have given that spot to someone else, usually because there's a waiting list every day. And so like there's that built to just show up all the time. And so getting out of the way, that's the reward. The reward, I mean, sorry, that's the getting the big, the big frog. The reward is that I'm done and it sets my day.

Yeah. Yeah, I would love to do that. That's my ultimate. And ever since moving to Spain, like when we were back in Australia, I do exactly the same thing, train, 6am Jiu Jitsu classes, good to go. With the kind of work that I'm doing now, different time zones, it's gotten better in the last two weeks because of the daylight savings. So now, you know, I was getting up at ridiculous o 'clock to just work into time zones to get time done. But my... training sessions are at 10 .30 and at 12. And they're really hard and I don't go to the evening classes at all. I'm the same. I prefer to get things done in the evenings is really has always been whether I had kids or not his family time. So I don't I don't want to go out and I could very easily go, yeah, you'll train but I'm missing out on the other really important things. So prioritize it to make sure that that gets done and a really important. thing that I learned very early on is what gets scheduled gets done. And that's what prevents me from distractions is if I don't have the discipline of a calendar that I follow, then it's just too, um, too variable. It could go any way. And I don't focus and execute on the most important thing. So for me, everything is scheduled in my diary. Um, and I follow it meticulously to make sure that I honor those agreements with self. Cause if I didn't, then it's just,

Yeah. So I think distractions are a big thing. Obviously, like we talked about discipline and how that affects us and just, and distractions are updated. One of the things that I think, you know, going back to your original statement is what brought me realizing was a parent is really as a parent, it's, it's been hard. Um, when I remember when the kids who were growing up, it was very difficult for us to not want to fill this time with the kids, like distracting them with things all the time.

I work really well when there's boundaries and structure around my world without question.

And you're absolutely right. I remember there was moments, there was a certain age where, you know, Christian or Kai would just come, especially Christian, he would just come up to me and say, I'm bored. And I'm like, you know, and it's so easy to just go try to figure it out for him versus about just going, okay, go find something to do. And it took a long time. It took a while for him to finally just get that it's on him to figure it out rather than me trying to actually, go on, why don't you do this? Why don't you try to do this? And let me do for me to play with him. And I'm not saying that we didn't. It's just that there was these moments he had to kind of come up with things on his own. And that's where the imagination started to hit. And that's where he had to figure things out. And it's, uh, and as the right thing, right. It's not like just going, Oh, I'll play. Okay. Then I'll go play video games. But he knew he had a limit, the only 30 minute limit. So there, which means he couldn't use it. So therefore, if he used it all then, or he was saving it for later, then.

Yeah. Yeah.

this would be a problem for him. So before he had to really figure things out, like how am I gonna, you know, maybe build something with my Lego or whatever. But young, right? When they're older, it's a little bit easier. But it's those are distractions that we constantly have that we have to wrestle with parents. And I seen this, I'll say one more thing, which like parents with some kids, they're so scheduled. Like every day there's an activity, you know? And I'm like, man, like when do you have time to just...

Hmm. Hmm.

like live and I'm not saying it's wrong. I don't know if it's wrong or right. Like I only time will tell I guess. I find like a lot of kids are so scheduled and they're like doing, you know, five different sports like one, one every single week and then on the weekends are scheduled and I'm like, is that, is that healthy? I don't know. Um, I kind of wish my kids to play a little bit more sport, but they don't. Um, but you know, yeah. So, you know, it's a question I'm throwing it at you and, uh, just as a comment.

Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah, I, you know, it's interesting you say that because I'm of exactly the same view. Like our kids always did play sport though. They were very sport minded. However, we also were very cautious not to over schedule them as well. We also wanted to still be a kid. You know, we still wanted them to, you know, find their own interests and then rushing around from one to us. You see them. We used to see them in our practice and even just interacting with kids. They're exhausted. They're tired. Their whole adrenal system's just totally cooked. And I'll never forget, you know, the, when our son Xavier was very little, we had the next door neighbor, little girl next door who came over. She would have been like six, seven, maybe eight at the most. And she came over to play with Xavier and there were all these little toys, you know, little farm animals and stuff. Cause our kids went to Steiner school and they, they really worked on creating their own imagination and stimulating that, which is what we wanted. And this poor little girl saw these farm animals as toys and didn't know what to do with them. And it was like, she was like, what do they do? What am I meant to do? She had no concept of being able to fill in the gaps with things and follow her own pathway and intuition and adventure to create play. It was so structured that everything led to something else. And that really highlighted to me what can sometimes happen when you don't have the ability to.

Mm -hmm.

to stay in and do, I think it's Cal Newport who talks about deep work, who actually has an ability to go really, really deep by virtue of making all these synapses and the connections in your brain. So I think to me that personified exactly what happens when we're distracted by the immediate as opposed to staying in something, because we never actually develop the neurology to create and get to deep work.

Yeah, so do you think that's going to be a problem as we move towards the future and you know, currently and also in the future where we are for ourselves, people our age who are, you know, dealing with because our brains just I don't think are wired for this constant distraction and media, social media attention that's, you know, everybody's marketing towards our brain. And we're not built for to really to distinguish and how to work at it. So. we're being lost. And then now the next generation and our kids, they're even worse, right? They're primed for this. And now the social media being able to, you know, hone in on other great documentary, I think it's called the, I can't remember exactly what was called the social dilemma. I think it was called, and it talked about how it hacks your brain and you know, these images or these imageries and everybody's trying to kind of really craving for that attention. And you cannot.

Yeah, I do.

not be hooked, right, because they're designed by behavioral scientists to figure out ways to make you more attentive to their particular app. And, and they're also, you know, grabbing your attention. So those are really challenging things for our human brain, which is not developed hasn't evolved to that degree yet to fight against all these billion dollar industries that are vying for attention. So where does that leave us?

Social dilemma, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think you've nailed it too. There's a lot of data and research, particularly neuroscientists in there. A lot of, interestingly, primary and secondary educators talk about this as a problem because there's a couple of things. Then, you know, when you're not writing tech, you know, write with a pen, for example, you're not developing the connections into your brain, the synapses. So there's one level of neuroplasticity that's not being challenged, is not being focused on. And the other component, as you said, is the nature with which we don't do the deep things. We don't stick around to harness an action, a behavior, because we're distracted by something else. So we don't get the grooving into our neurology, into our brain that will make that. So my concern is that we're noticing big spikes and escalations in ADHD, not only in adults, but in kids, but in adults. things like Alzheimer's and degenerative brain conditions, I think to me, are potentially higher in function if we don't address those specifically. We have to, you know, challenge our brain. The simplicity, the default is easy. We almost have to go, I have to make it hard to ensure that I become relevant. I'm cognizant, I'm intellectually stimulated so that I just don't default to laziness. And I remember a research project that talked about the blue zones and the older people who live in these areas that have, you know, longevity and over 100. And their life by other people's consent is difficult, not in terms of they'll walk up the stairs, they'll do this, they'll get, and so they're still stimulating themselves. And I think there's an element of

Well, it's I mean, that was very first move to us, Portugal here where you see the elderly here, you know, in groceries and walking the streets and I don't see that anywhere in the world. You know, where I there's, you know, people to have deliveries done, you know, a Coles will work delivery truck delivering them. You don't see them like walking the streets with these grocery. And I remember one, she was just walking to her car and I, you know, I asked, Hey, boss, would you know, like, can I help you? And she's like, no, no, no. And she talked to me in Portuguese, basically indicating like, no, I don't need your help.

The risk is that because of the distractions, we're not doing what is difficult. So consequently, we're not creating the wiring and the grooving that will keep us healthy mentally and physically as well.

You know, got this and you know, this elderly, you know, whereas all of the culture, I would have been trying to help them, you know, to lift it and everything else. But no, I got this, you know, I'm not saying this right or wrong, but it's just like, wow, like, but the other side of it is like, yeah, they're building resiliency. They're building strength. They're building, you know, this, uh, this endurance and this ability to be able to withstand. So lose that muscle. And this is where, you know, that, that. That term could realize for a whole bunch of things is what you're kind of mentioning about. And that's where I feel that we're we, we as a society may be losing out. And because of the distractions that we're having, we're getting lost and distracted by things and not focusing on the core. Essentials of communication or observing, uh, understanding of people, watching people's emotions and having conversations, real life emotions. We're talking in texts, we're talking in emojis, we're talking in.

Yeah.

short form text instead of actually watching and reading people. So therefore now it gets lost in translation is the ability to be able to read, communicate people actively and to, you know, as you know, you're, you're a very effective communicator. You know, you deal with all the time and there's so many subtle clues in, in a, in a conversation that you're picking up that are nonverbal cues that give you a full picture of this person that we as society may be starting to lose because we're not doing the. interactions. You know, even then the zoom call is very difficult because you know, on on certain of these online calls, because I see your emotions, but at the same time, I'm trying to, you know, keep my eyes on the camera and on you. So like I'm losing a little bit, but and also it's only 2d, it's not 3d, I don't see every emotions of what you're going through. And you know, how subtleties that you I don't even know if I'm picking up, but I am I know that I'm my process, my brain's processing gives me a full picture and I heard learn how to communicate. Well, that is not happening because, you know, our kids are doing less and less of these human interactions, they're doing more and more of these online, which then it's a skill that could be lost in the next generation, definitely possibly the generation after that, which is pretty quick.

Hmm. Yeah, you know, I think a prequel to this distraction is also the disconnection that happens because you talked about it and I agree. I mean, I can get on a plane and I'll put my headphones on, my noise cancelling headphones. I realised that they were a game changer for me. The moment my noise cancelling headphones, I put them on and I cut out all that white noise. I used to get off on a plane. And I'd be really agitated and I couldn't work out why and just cutting that out. It was like, it was a game changer for me. Right. But almost to the point now where that's almost the first thing I'll do. I'll get on a plane. And so unless someone comes and enters my space, I'm really so far into my world that I'm disconnected. Right. So I'm not the only one. You only have to look around. So what happens is that I'm so used to my bubble and my cocoon. that I'm disconnected from other people. So consequently, it's really just about me. I'm not interested in the interaction. So I'm not interested in the connection necessarily in that context. I'm just now throwing myself under the bus by looking at what happens. But then all I'm gonna focus on is where my thoughts go and I'm just gonna follow that around. So consequently, naturally there's no ebb and flow. There's no sitting in the plane. Like I remember my...

Hmm.

My dad used to go, we used to travel overseas and he wasn't much for TV. He didn't like TV at all. He'd read, but for 24 hours, 20 of them, if he wasn't sleeping, he was just doing nothing. And I was like, I think back to that and I go, how, that would have driven me crazy. And yet now there is no way that someone will go 10 minutes without some kind of stimulation or, or entertainment. So.

Yeah, and it's so, I literally have to force myself to go for a walk and not put headphones on, right? Or, or I have to go for a drive and just listen to nothing. Like that is actually a, something I actually have to force myself to, because the other nat, most natural thing is to put something else, put something on. And so there are times where I try to disconnect. And what that also means too, is that I, I think the importance of a community is so important and you have to,

I think what's happening is that we've started to disconnect from other people first because we have the ability to go within and then from then on, then we just become distracted about, okay, what's going to get my attention now? Because you're not outside. It's all about my work.

It's so easy. Like I said earlier, it's so easy to stay at home, watch Netflix all day and not have to talk to a single soul. Right? Like I think there's massive benefits to like Netflix and they streaming the platforms because it does, you know, create a connection for those people who are really lonely, you know, who don't have those outside community. Uh, and, and it gives them a sense of like, you know, reason. And so I'm not saying that it's all bad, but the challenge is, is that for.

Yeah.

for people who, who use that, who that becomes the addiction or that becomes the, the distraction from actually making interactions with a real life human being, that that's the downfall. And so, because the distractions are more powerful, I think we have to be more conscious and have to electively choose to make a making sure you're actually part of a community and making sure you're actually part of a community that requires you to interact with human beings. That part needs to be a priority in, I believe, in most people's lives. If you're not actively going out to coffee or dinner or lunch or putting yourself in a paddle situation or going to jiu -jitsu or like meeting people, even at the gym, even though you don't talk much, there's a sense of community. Like, you know, I don't, you know, it's just say going to, you know, here in Portugal, I don't, you know, not that I talk to a lot of people there because you know, you're focused on working out, but there's a sense of camaraderie. Yeah, there's a sense of like, that fist pump at the end, like, I know you did hard work just like I did. You know, there's that sense of community and over time it gets built. And I think that is very, very powerful.

Yep.

Yeah.

You're like, ah, ah, ah. You just. Yeah. And you know, Lawrence, we now have a parody paradox of choice. You know, like when I was growing up, I don't know what it was like in Canada, but in Australia and Melbourne, when I was growing up, we had four channels. We had, um, for seven, nine channel 10 and the ABC with the Australian. And, and after a certain time, the transmission would go off and it'd be like, okay, it's time for bed. Right. You're laughing because you remember that. Right. And Bettina grew up on it in a country town and found that two channels. And so they had transmission for 14 hours or 12 hours a day. And so you didn't have that choice. Whereas here you can pick anything, anytime, anywhere from anywhere in the world, any sport. Like if you wanted to listen to a sport, good luck. You'd have to wait to hear. And so you've now got, in addition to what you have to do, you've got these competing priorities of interests that you can access at any time. And it's really, really difficult to go, no, I'm going to stay off that.

Yeah, I'm laughing because I give you some background. Like I come from Canada and when I was in Canada, when I was a kid, I had probably around, I would remember it was 33 channels. Okay. And I could go, I remember channel 33 was CNN. You know, I can still remember channel 30, TSN. I had this channel and you know, channel seven, whatever. So you go up and I used to go, this is one, two, three, four, just go through.

And I'm going to stay on the stuff that's really difficult and hard. That's challenging. I'm not really enjoying when I could just turn to the right and just go, but I have exactly what I want on tap. It's just, it's, it's really difficult.

And then within a half an hour, I go through all the channels probably at least once or twice and not find anything. But then now it's the other half an hour, it's 3 .30 now. So, oh, guess what? Let's just see if the other, and I could be there for an hour or more just searching between 34 channels to see if I could find something, right? Land on something. Absolutely. But in 2002, when I moved to Australia, there was only four channels, right? It was channel 7, 10 and ABC, or maybe SBS, right? And the five channels. So five channels. And I'm like, what kind of back world country did I come to move to? And it's 2000, is in the 2000s now, right? To go from 30, by then we probably had about 40, 50 channels. And I didn't have like major cable stuff. I didn't have all the movie stuff, which most people had a lot.

Cause two million choices. Yeah. Yeah. America and Canada were the envy of Australia. We were like, wow, what's it like? I mean, what could you possibly have in those 33 channels? And now you have so many channels that you get, it's like when you go into a clothing store and you've got so many choices that you end up walking out with a lot less. And they've, and they've actually done that with, with retail where they actually go, when you have less choices.

to go to five channels, I'm like, oh my God, I remember the first month or so it was really difficult. I remember Karen's like, there's nothing on. Like there's literally like, you know, you're watching seven, nine or 10. And I'm like, I have three choices. And if there's nothing on those three channels, like I guess we're now, right? And that was such a weird flip, but in a good way, because I realized I'm like, oh, we don't actually have to watch TV. There's nothing on. As in Canada, it was so different because you can just flip channels for freaking ever. And that was the challenge. And...

you're more likely to go and buy something that if you've got so many options that you get overwhelmed. That's what was happening. Ha ha ha! Actually you're right SBS has come on. Yeah five channels they've come on.

That was something amazing to me. That was a big realize I took like, obviously took a like a you know, like that drug it took me to kind of come down from high to realize I'm gonna help you but then you go, oh, three channels, nothing on move on. And it was such a brilliant way of, you know, just understand like, oh, these are work and this is going to do destruction but it was just funny. I was I could never understand it's 2000 in the 2000 yet the Australian channels could not figure out how to start on time, you know, like,

Yeah. Yep. Yep, yep. Yep. Yep.

You know, eight o 'clock show never started on eight. It started like eight oh three or eight oh four because somewhere in channeling somewhere, someone got pushed back a minute. I was like, how is this possible? And nowadays that you can't start on time, which is really weird. Anyways, that's.

Yeah. Yep, yep.

I don't even know what exists exactly.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah, there was.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I haven't watched live TV for so long. It's not funny, but I just had, yeah, that's exactly right. I had this funny recollection when, because of what I was talking about, Bettina. So Bettina was on a farm and they had two channels and they didn't watch very much TV. Cause on a farm, you never get to the point you go, I'm bored. I've got nothing to do. Cause there's always something to do. Right. And so for them, the real treat was if it rained and there was nothing they could do, they had a free pass. They could go inside and watch TV. because I only had two channels, I generally got to watch movies from start to end. There was no channel flicking, right? So she, but then it is the absolute ninja in 1950s, 1960s, black and white, Fred Astaire, Ginger Roger type. She knew them all because they were the ones that being played. And, but, but she got to see them. And in her mind, she can remember them because she got to watch them in there. But I'd noticed it myself after a while, my concentration.

Well, you know what's interesting? You're absolutely right. So I'm in my university days and this is going back to 94, 98. And I remember it back then Thursday nights was a big for us and the household. And so we're going back to like the plain example of like doing the, getting the reward. So our reward on Thursday night was, it was, it was a big thing touted back then, you know, Thursday night was, you know, friends and Seinfeld, you know, and so me and my, my roommates would all like study like hard.

When I had so many choices, if I wasn't enjoying something, I go, nah, buy all this, I'm gonna watch something else. So I ended up having half -hearted versions of any type of movie. So consequently, which is really, if you think about it, what's really going on from the biggest scheme of things, because you're just changing, changing, changing, changing. You never actually consolidate. You've got 15 different parts of different sequences and sports and whatever, but you never actually watch one to get the full effect of it.

Right up to about, let's just say, call it eight o 'clock. And I guess that's when eight o 'clock was, was when friends were on. Yeah. Friends party. Exactly. And the, for some people, this is foreign to them because you literally have access to any show, any, anywhere you want at a flick of a button, you can pause it. But back then you didn't have that. So we had to time our schedule based television programming, telling us when to watch this. And so Thursday was a very special day because it was friends in Seinfeld and eight o 'clock was it, I think it was friends and nine o 'clock was Seinfeld and. you know, we this discipline actually now reminds me this actually started back then because we would eat dinner at eight o 'clock so that we would eat dinner watching Friends and Seinfeld at that time on Thursday night special, you know, rather. So a reward was the dinner and the show and the work to get there was to make sure for that. So we actually had those two hours or an hour and a half or whatever to watch those shows. And, you know, that was the back in the day of Beverly Hills, 90210 and Melrose Place, you know, so right. So the.

Yeah. Ha ha. Eh, eh. They were friends parties. Eh. Yeah.

Exactly. And only in those times. And so this is where like, so if you think about that, the reason I'm bringing this up is because back then we had a schedule, like, which means that it kind of dictated or just we could actually figure out. But now, because we don't actually have that, like our generation doesn't have that anymore, the kids generation, you can whatever you want to watch this movie. Okay, well, it's not on at seven o 'clock, it's on whenever you wanted the press play. Right. And so therefore,

Yeah.

Right, because you have access to that, it becomes very hard and this is difficult, it's what we're talking about, to go to actually have that, it's so self -discipline now, because it's not an outside control, it's like an internal control, whether I should press play, and so easy to go, ah, eff it, I'm just watching the movie now. Right, and because it's in our hands and our ability, so therefore, are we more productive? And I don't know if the answer is yes.

Oh yeah, I used to watch that one too. You had to get all your things organized if you wanted to watch those shows, because at those times. Yeah. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, it's interesting because necessity is the mother of invention. And like, you know, you're talking about Melrose parties and like for us in Australia, it was Tuesday nights was a fantastic, I remember vividly, I think it must've been in its first or second year chiropractic. So this is going back, gosh, 35 years. And Tuesday nights Pizza Hut used to put on an all you can eat for five bucks night, right? And every car student was there on a site, you know, like it'd be around the college. All the students were there and my flat, my roommate, my flatmate, um, at our, at our house that we shared was did security work at the cinema. And so he would, um, basically work on Tuesday night. So we could get into the movies and he used to sneak us into the movies, um, for as well, like, yes, I'm, I'm letting that one go. But so for us, it was like, you can have a meal and I watch a movie for five bucks.

Yeah. And so I think the hard part of all the distractions now is that you just have to be more disciplined. If we actually want to get certain things done, you have to create it. You have to be disciplined enough. So not only just creating it, but you also have to be dissonant to action it and to apply it into your life to really to fight against the distraction because the distractions are constantly battling against you every single day. I guarantee you, like anybody who's listening to you, listening to this podcast right now or watching this podcast, you're doing something else.

which was just amazing. But it meant that you had to get everything done and organized in time to go out for a meal and go to the movie if you're gonna go to. And a number of times our lectures would have this spot assignment on a Tuesday that had to be done Wednesday. And you're like, dude, you're cutting into pizza night and movie night. But funnily enough, we got it done. If it was two hours of an assignment, it'd be like, listen, mate, come on guys, hurry up because they're cooking the pizzas.

I highly doubt it that any of you and any one person right now is watching and listening to and the only thing you're doing is watching and listening to this podcast. You're most likely walking, driving, you know, doing something. Even if you're watching you're doing something else, you got another laptop open or something else. And I'm not saying that's okay. Like I'm not I'm not I'm not calling you out. All I'm saying is just the reality of it. Most likely, you know, I think that's one of the powerful things about podcasting is that allows us to listen and learn.

I can smell them from here. If we don't hustle, we're going to miss out on the movie. And it's amazing how many times we've got stuff done because we had a time schedule, had a high priority to get through.

while doing something else, which would have been, you know, and you become more productive. So I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying, I'm just the truth. The reality is we're multitasking all the time. Yeah, that's right. Yep. No more.

I'll declare it. Yeah, yeah. And totally, and we know that, and it's been shown so many times that multitasking doesn't work. I've always tried to disprove that theory. The only thing that I find that is a genuine hack is like when you said, well, I'm on a plane, I'm listening to an audio book and I can actually do both because I'm traveling and listening. That to me is a hack, but everything else. I remember a guy called Dale Beaumont in Australia. Yeah. Yeah, right. So I remember hearing, so you probably know him, but I remember seeing on stage and he talked about this, this distraction. And he used this great example where he wrote, he got you to write this sentence out. And then it was like, say seven seconds. And then he said, I want you to write this other seconds. It was seven seconds. So all together 14 seconds, but then he said, great. Okay. Now what I want you to do is want you to write the same sentence, but the first sentence I want you to write the first letter.

Yeah. And really the success of anything usually is a copy finishing, you know, one task at a time rather than trying to another example of that is like, you know, doing a B C D and then a B C D a B C D. That's exactly what you're saying. Instead of you should be doing a, a, a, a, a, a complete B B B B B B B complete C C C C complete D D D. And that's how we should really kind of do this. But, um, you know, our brains and desires and the distractions of our own little brain or squirrel brain that.

the second sentence I want you to write the first letter, then go back to the one and to the other, back to the one. And after about a minute and a half, two minutes, most people haven't finished, right? And it just highlighted that when you start something from start to finish, you'll get through and you'll get through the task. But if you try to kid yourself and do that, and I said, I've been guilty of that in the past where I tried to make up this delusion that I'm actually saving time. I'm not really, it was I'm taking longer and I'm probably not.

we have don't allow us to do that sometimes. And we do it all the time. I do it, I'm guilty of it every single freaking day. And it has the best of us. But I think if you can string them together, and able to put them together, because it's so small, the wins. But if you put those wins together back to back to back to back, all of a sudden you start to look like, oh, man, I'm actually a lot further ahead than I am. And I think that's the discipline to be able to see, you know, to maintain.

delivering on that same outcome. And to me, that would just tangibly put an example of just what the distraction really is. Because the cogs in your brain are going forward, back, forward, back, and never actually totally engaging.

to be able to recognize that you are going somewhere and not get distracted to focus from where you need to be.

Yep. Yep.

Oh, the most of the time, the really, it's like avoiding thing. And I'm guilty of this too. We avoid the thing we know we're supposed to do. So that what we do is we distract ourselves thinking that this other thing is the next sexy thing that I'm supposed to be doing. But all of a sudden, internally, you know, and just avoiding that what you need to do is do the work that you know you're supposed to do, right? And we don't want to do it. And that's why you distract yourself with something else and thinking.

Yeah.

and you come back to this road three months later, six months later, a year later, a couple of years later, you're like, I'm back at the same time. I don't have any results to show for it. Why is that? That's because you're not doing the thing you're supposed to be doing and you're voiding and you're just constantly distracting yourself with things that are irrelevant. That doesn't move the needle. And that's the truth. And no one likes to do that, but that is the reality of what I see in my clients all the time.

Yep. And just, just slightly changing the momentum of this a little bit, Lawrence, in terms of business, you know, like a lot of our clients would and our coaching clients in business would become distracted in the course of running their business. You know, a lot of the times not focusing on the main, you know, making the main thing, the main thing, and then distracted on side projects, side hassles, which distracts them from. what they really end up doing, which ultimately robs them of their results and performance. Have you seen that play out as well too with clients? Yeah. Yeah.

you know, is that they have the right intention. They all have great goals, but the difference between someone who actually gets the goals versus someone who doesn't isn't because they're smarter. Isn't because they, you know, they're more intelligent. Isn't because they got, you know, more lucky or they have a best, better strategy. It's because they, the hard work that they, most people are not willing to do. And this is what different when it comes to fitness. Like if you want a great body, you want to get healthier and stronger. You gotta do the work. Like no one can do the pushups for you, right? Like you have to do the work. You have to go through punishment. Like it sucks. I don't enjoy it. I don't like being in pain, but guess what? You have to put yourself in the pain. Like, you know, you just can't machine to kind of strap around me and vibrate around me to get me fit. Like I have to actually do the work and there's punishment that it takes a lot of effort, a lot of discipline and a lot of tolerance of pain to get through that. I think that's the same in business. I think that's where, we don't do enough of is to put ourselves in more difficult situations. And we just talked about offline before and we talked about our event recently as well. And it was a challenge. It was a challenge to like put ourselves on a constant basis to say, hey, like this is important to you. This is what I come to like, and no one likes to sell. Like, you know, some people do, but we know we're not sales people. But the reality is that if we don't do it, no one's going to do it for us. We can't just expect that. Oh, here's a event that everybody's going to show up now. Like we actually have to go, here's the event. And then we're going to push. We got to, we got to tell people about it. We got to promote it and we got to tell people about it and how important it is for them to show up. And that constantly has to be there. And if you're not willing to do the work, then you know, it's not the strategy failed. It's not that, you know, that wasn't the event that wasn't not successful or there wasn't the book that you wrote was in a great book for people to read is that you got to promote it. Right. And if you think about any movie,

Mm -hmm. Yep. Mmm. Mmm.

Uh, or any success on play or, um, uh, product or it's, it's really about marketing. Now, of course you have to have a great book or a great product. I mean, that's a given. What makes it successful usually is that it has to be marketed well in a way that people want it. And that takes effort and time.

Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, and totally, you talked about the follow, the ripple effect, the things that have to be done. There are times where someone shoots a movie 18 months ago and then they're on the marketing campaign or the PR campaign. They've just got interview after interview. That's the process. And now I'm sure there are times where they'd much rather be doing something else, but that is an essential process, which is a lot of what you're talking about. I was looking particularly along the lines of someone like, and I've read in articles of LeBron James, for example, who has so many potential other distractions that he could have that he's really, really clear that it's because of my focus on this one thing that everything else becomes possible. And if I put my focus on anything other than the main thing, all the other things will go away because your endorsements,

Okay. So let's, uh, let's end this podcast by kind of indulging ourselves and maybe just opening up. Like what is a favorite distraction of yours to just from, you know, like, I know we're talking about the everything against is the right, but I think let's, let's face it. We have distractions. So what is your favorite distractions when you just want to just unwind or, uh, just do nothing, maybe a favorite show, maybe a favorite movie, maybe your favorite thing to do. What would you listen to?

in direct proportion to the outcome and the results you're getting. And the opportunities that are showing up are there. Now, if you're taking your eye off the ball and you're focusing too much on the, you know, all the glitters is not gold. If you're putting your focus away from your chief aim, that won't last indefinitely. And so that is what he has taught me about the importance of identifying and making the main thing the main thing, because that's the opportunity through which everything else opens up.

I've seen you do two, three sessions a day. I'm like, I don't know how you do that.

And when you're not disciplining yourself on the things that give you the best outcomes, as you said, you're coming back 12 months later going, now, where were we again? Not really having moved the needle any further than you were 12 months ago.

Yeah. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Yeah, for me, for me, it's like I love reading. And so I have to, I have to be very, very clear of when I'm reading for entertainment and when I'm reading to avoid, right? Because I'd rather just keep reading and not doing what it's so I can very easily get down that road. Um, for me, distraction can be exercise where I can actually just start training harder and harder and harder and just suddenly realize, Hey, I'm doing two sessions, three sessions, four sessions a day. And I,

And just for clarification, when you say in books, are you nonfiction or fiction? Like, is this something that you're reading for? Okay. Yeah. So it's actually still something like educational most of the time. Okay.

Yeah, I know. I know. I know. Well, I said that that as a distraction was a coping mechanism to decrease stress. So I recognize that in hindsight. But but that's it. And look for me, yeah, if I if I watch TV, I'm very localized. I mean, when I say that I narrow it down, I've got a couple of shows I generally will watch action shows. That's what I or sport. There are two things, you know, they're my my my things that I'll reward or indulge myself in. But.

Yeah, uh, definitely about the sport thing. That's funny. Cause in season during the NFL, uh, definitely it's the, uh, you know, I love watching freaking ridiculous amount of like scouting reports and like, you know, of, you know, talk, head radio around my team and like what happened this week and next week and prediction. It is kind of ridiculous. It's stupid. I don't even know why I do it because I have no influence or any influence, but I.

could very easily just suddenly go, oh, we're now watching the 1989 grand final again, and because we won that one, I could just really easily just, you know, go down that rabbit hole and I got no, ran it in, ran it in fella, you know, you've, uh,

Fascinated by it. I'm fascinated by about team building. I'm fascinated by you know where things can go Yeah exactly

I very rarely read fiction. Yeah, I really, yeah, yeah, it's educational. Yeah, so like I've got, I've got the token fiction books on the bookshelf, but I just, there's so many great things that I'm fascinated by that I need to expand myself and start reading. I started off with great literature and I think I did my dash in there, but now these days it's just nonfiction and.

Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. And you're Yeah, and so that's a distraction. And YouTube is, you know, when I first came to Portugal, I remember YouTube. And I used to get so annoyed at all these ad, you know, that, you know, every watch video I watch out of like a 20 second out of 30 second ad, and I'm like, screw this, I'm paying premium. And it's the best is a game changer for me. Because now I get to download a YouTube video and watch it on the plane.

but sometimes I recognize myself and go, this is really cool. I don't want to put this down, but I'm going to go do things. I can very easily know. And what about you, Lawrence? Yeah.

I can speed up my, I think you know, not naturally speed up anyways. I watch it two times speed usually. And, and I don't get any ads. And so like, I just constantly just watch like YouTube is like, I don't know if for some reason it's been, I never usually touch it until I came about two years ago. And that's when I like, I'm, I'm watched so much stuff, whether it be on cryptocurrency, whether it be on sport, it could be on governments or like just whatever I'm interested in at that time. It's like this, this mixture, cause there's so much out there.

Okay. I'm fascinated by the drafts as well. I totally get it. That's what I mean. I'm there. I don't get it as much here, but I'm fascinated by the drafts. I'm like, oh, okay. We really need this and this. I follow that as well. I don't know whether it's you and I just playing our own version of Moneyball here and just looking for the talent, but I do the draft as well.

And that will be, that's my distraction sometimes is just getting lost in whatever is happening in the mall. I try to only get to the Niners when it's during season. And then most of the time is other things that may be of interest, you know, and yeah, that's, that's my distraction is watching and action movies for sure. Spies, you know, those types of genre movies, man, it's, I love it. And sometimes I actually do like it when Karen doesn't like it. So then I can actually watch it in my own private and my own. Um, you know, my own time, uh, and there's some great dramas. And so maybe we'll just end off with one. What's like maybe one or top two shows that you actually love being distracted. I just love having this conversation. We never really kind of go here. Right. So like, what's, what's a, what's a good show. Oh yes, that's old school. Ah, right, that's another old school. Man, you're an old school kinda guy, eh? It's still going? Oh my God. Oh my God. I remember watching season one and then got annoyed after season two. I'm like...

Yeah, love those. Love those.

Okay, interesting, interesting, okay. Uh, I would say one of my favorite, you know, like if it's just nothing to do, it's pretty violent warriors where it's actually, uh, Great. Yeah. I figured you watched that. That's amazing. Written by Bruce Lee. I thought that was a classic. I don't care. I don't think you watch it. Um, succession is another one that I was fascinated by. Like it's just, I mean, you hate every character to not have, but yet somehow addictive. Um, yeah, I love billions.

Yeah. I love, you know, one of my favorite, I watched the Netflix show, I loved a show called Prison Break. That's old school, but the one that I've just finished watching, it was a show called Blacklist. Blacklist. Yeah, but that, but old school, Blacklist started the most recent series just premiered and finished. So they've just wrapped up series 10.

I don't even, I haven't watched the last season yet, so that's something I have to catch up on. But yeah.

It just is, series 10. Yeah. I just watched it right up to the end. Yeah. Yeah, man. So I'm gonna try. Yeah. Yeah. No, pretty much. A lot of my, all my family just bailed out on it, but I just plugged away. I chipped away and there were series. Some of them were terrible, but I was kind of like so far into it. And then I went, okay, I wonder where this goes. Season 10 was phenomenal. Right? So that was, that's what, that's what. And what about you?

Yeah, I gotta figure out where I left off. That's the problem and that's always kind of stuck. That's where I don't know. And I would say one last one I actually have been watching is Tokyo Vice. And I really enjoy that. It's back in I think the 1990s, but an American, sort of like 20 year old college grad who goes to Japan who wants to be a journalist and he speaks Japanese and it's about Japanese mafia with the triads and just, yeah, I found it fascinating. Yeah, so.

Oh yes, yes we just watched that recently. Yep, that was good.

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Yes, of course, I've watched that. Yeah, loved it. What about Billions? Did you watch Billions? Yeah, loved Billions as well. That was a clip that was when my when my kids got here over Christmas and we had a lot of time we were like two seasons three seasons behind that went listen we are watching these so we made it a you know like we go out and do stuff and we're like okay at night it was like a treat we'd watch an episode and that's how we got through that series but there yeah

Yeah. And I think the reason why I wanted to go there and to share is also to recognize that we're human beings too, as well. And we're not saying distractions are all bad. Like they're, they're meant to be there and I think they're good. And so it's just recognizing and having the self -awareness is that, is it distracting? Is it a slippage for you? Is it too much distraction for you? Or is it too little or you maybe don't do enough. And I think that's important. Um, it's no right or wrong for anybody. You got to be the only.

I haven't seen that one.

own person to kind of guide you in that direction to figure out like is this good enough for you so because it is your life at the end of the day so guys I hope you enjoyed this particular podcast I'd love to hear about your distractions what's your favorite distractions in your life and then continue on the journey with Wabi Sabi and the art of imperfection we'll see you on the next episode take care

Okay, I could get into that. I can get into that. But specifically, and what I loved what we did there, Lawrence is we were transparent. We go, hey, here's what we would have to work up against. Now, I guess the audit would be to someone to go, hey, what about you? Where's the time that is you're losing as being stolen from you? And anybody who knows us knows that we operate at a pretty high level. And if we are finding areas in our world where that's creeping in, if you're not necessarily... Operate at a high level, just imagine how much slippage there is for you. So it was kind of, it could be a real big reality check. That's, that's what we would hope that people take out of this is that everybody does it.