The Immigrant Mentality

Oh, welcome to the muggies savvy. Jim is great to have you on here. Like, you know, listen, it's been a really weird week, you know, I, you know, let's kind of start with the story and sort of where, where I'm at at the moment. And let's talk about this. And I think where it relates to the topic that we have, you know, unfortunately, my grandmother, we call her popo popo in Chinese is the usually, it's the, the term used for grandmother on the mother's side. And so

Yeah. Yeah.

you know, so my mother's mother and You know, she passed away This week and I got I got a you know text from my dad, you know mentioning that she passed on and what was really interesting Like it's fascinating story. Well, we won't you know won't bore you with all the details But what's really amazing is that she's 101 like she was sorry. She was 101 years old She just turned 101 years old and I'm like, wow I really hope I have some of those genes and I'm definitely working, you know daily to ensure that I live

Wow. 101.

I don't know, past 100, I'm sure you are too, Jim. That's what we do, that's why we do our fitness and all that stuff. It's to give us our highest probability to do that. But we're flicking them on her life. Like I said, it wasn't super, super close with my grandmother, because I've been in Australia, I've only seen her once over the last 20 years. But I did spend a lot of time with her when I was living in Hong Kong when I was young, between five and nine. They lived in a penthouse apartment and we used to go up.

That's it. Yeah.

To you know, see my grandparents pretty much every week, you know, we used to have dim sum every yumcha, you know every single Sunday For about four years. So when I was younger that definitely spent a lot of time and I know as we get older we we kind of You know drift a little apart just because we're different cities in different countries actually So what's what better as a reflection on her life? You know, I just think about like man a hundred years like a hundred years a long time to be able to, you know, really kind of create a legacy. And that's sort of where it stuck my mind. And for me, and I believe for you too, it's just like, you know, there's this, the journey of where we are, like, let's face it, we are immigrants now. First day, like we're immigrants into a new country. I've been immigrant twice now. You know, one is Australia and once now in Portugal. And I just think back my history and, you know, your history, we'll love to kind of dive into that too as well. It's...

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

It's a journey that started from, you know, a lot of decisions and sacrifice and grit and suffering that our ancestors You know really took upon, you know creating and you know made just tough decisions that kind of created the life that we have and Yeah, so I've been reflecting a lot on that Jim and For me, it's it's an appreciation like it's a massive appreciation for the amount of, I don't know, I mean, I hate to say pain and suffering because I'm sure life was good too, but you know, there's a lot of tough things that they would have had to have gone through. Because my grandparents, both my grandparents, on both sides, my dad and mom, actually both my parents, and my father grew up in Calcutta, India, and my mom grew up in China, and both of them grew up in poverty.

100%. 100%.

And to think that in one generation, choices that they made to make a decision to move to Canada, you know, individually, by the way, they met in Canada, got married, obviously had us, and be able to create a life like it's such a starting point, the life that I was privileged to live, like, you know, I wasn't like, you know, amazing, it was upper middle class, I want to say middle class, upper middle class, maybe. But even to get to that point, from poverty in one generation in like, maybe a span of like 10, 20 years or so.

Hmm.

It's just a fascinating thing to me anyways, and this is what I want to kind of lean into today It's like that immigrant mentality and that mentality that that immigrants do have You know because they I feel like they're thinking not like the for the moment they're thinking for generations and Yeah, I'd love to kind of dive into it. So sorry for the long intro

Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. No, it gives a great context, it gives an important spot. I just want to be really transparent with all our listeners, if that's okay, Lawrence, in that we were going to probably talk about something else today. And the events of what you just shared, which I really want to acknowledge you for, which are really raw and authentic, we both during the day, I checked in, I'll let everyone know, I checked in with you today. and said, hey, are you okay to proceed and you're okay to go through? And you said, yeah, look, I'm cool. And during the day, I had this feeling this would be a really important topic. If we could get you, if you're in a place where you can talk about it, which is like this, the old art of imperfection, it's authentic, it's real hard on our sleeves with being totally honest. And I just want everybody to know that in the moment, we just went, we're talking about this. And so this is coming from heart, from both of us. head, heart, gut, and through the light, you know, the school of tough knocks that both we have felt, but also generationally have been there. So I was just giving another context and to acknowledge just how tough that might have been for you, you know, to even just bring this up as a topic. So I think it's a really important topic. I think it's a massive topic. I think just, just on that, are you the eldest? Why don't you have brothers and sisters at all?

I do have a brother. I'm the oldest of two. My brother's back in Canada. My mom is the oldest of eight from my mother, my grandmother, so she's the mother of eight children, so she's the oldest.

Right, okay. Okay. Right, okay. Right, okay, so here's the context that I'm bringing because within your culture, within Greek culture, there's a big burden that's placed on the eldest, eldest kids, right? And my mum and dad both migrated to Australia. The story of that was both my granddad passed away. I'd never met my grandfathers, right? But my mum, her mum was basically crippled. So she couldn't, back in the day she missed, she didn't have the diagnosis of a hip issue picked up at birth. So she was effectively, she couldn't work, she was her whole life. So effectively she brought up three kids. My mum was the eldest and effectively, long story short, after my grandfather passed away at 11, 12, she actually ran the household. She actually was, she was responsible for looking after the family. right financially. So she went out at 11 or 12 and started working right. And my dad on the other side, he and I'm going to bring, I'm going to give you some context as well too because this is going to really open things up. My dad is a second Elvis in a family of nine as well. And they also came from a farm in back in Greece.

Mm.

But my dad literally went to move to South Africa for a while and pretty much worked and sent everything back to the family so that they could survive. And then he moved to Australia and he had six sisters and the process was he went back. He came to Australia. He started working. He sent everything back. He paid and married off six of his sisters. When I say, you know, like, please understand culturally.

Yes.

You know, you've got to understand that the time and he was responsible for basically marrying his sisters off because his dad couldn't basically afford to do that. So literally he left from South Africa, came to Australia in his 20s and 30s. Up until he was 38 or 39, every cent went back to family. All his sisters got married and he'd go, great, I'm at zero. And he started his own life back then. And that's, that's the stock that I guess I come from that you come from. That that is really to try and give out people are understanding that. You know, when, when my parents then came to Australia to give myself and my brother a chance of a new life, they will like thinking, like you said, like.

Wow. Yeah.

long-term though, like I'm going to eat metaphorically speaking a shit sandwich if I have to because my kids are gonna have an opportunity that I never had so it's really It puts context into what you just said about That so let's let's open this up because you know, I suddenly got goosebumps here So I'm actually tapping you to something here as well, too. So let's talk about that

man, like that's an incredible story. And that's the thing, like you start to think back around our lives, you look back and like, man, I, you know, whatever tough life that we all think we had, when you hear stories like that, you just go, what are we talking about here? Like, what are we comparing ourselves to? And, you know, like very similar, like my mother, like she said, she was the oldest, eldest of eight. And so when she,

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

when she was old enough, she actually traveled from China, Hong Kong to the UK to study by boat. Okay. You know, they couldn't afford plane. Like they, she traveled by boat. So I think it took like a month or two months to buy a boat and, you know, and to get there. And the thing is, is that because my grandmothers, like the family was so poor that they had to send, I believe.

Okay. Yep.

One or maybe two sister a brother and sister like her brother my mother's brother and sisters my aunt and uncle to england to stay with her While she studied because they you know It was just easier and and and they couldn't they couldn't feed them or something, you know like that like, you know So mom here's like just imagine my mom probably I don't know like let's just say 19 years old at the time You know trying to like study and uh at the same time, you know, got to raise two younger kids

Yeah, yeah.

You know that that's her brother and sister, you know who a lot younger and Think about that for a second like, you know our teenagers or our kids is like 19 years old I can barely call like how do I how do I keep up with like partying and going to school at the same time? right, you know, and it's it's so it's just a different world for them to kind of absorb and You're absolutely right. Like the you know my You know my grandfather like going back to like my grandfather growing up for poverty. He somehow

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

The story goes like somehow he started he was a construction worker. I think and cement he used to drive a truck cement trucks and Then he bought his first cement truck and then he started You know then the cement was used to build all these apartments in Hong Kong So then he bought one and then two then three and then Billy was a huge real estate You know portfolio in a company in a way to build all these buildings and apartments in Hong Kong So he was able to take this out of himself and his family out of poverty to build this something amazing. And all of these things, it's just this history, this work ethic that seems to be there when you're kinda have to push yourself. Like my father, when moved to Canada, he had nothing. He was studied in Canada and he just had some friends.

Yeah.

you know blood brothers kind of thing like that grew up in India that moved to Canada and took care of him and and he kind of raised his level of security for himself and it's like It just goes to show that there's this mentality I don't like I'm trying to figure out what like, you know, obviously we're trying to look at dive deep You know, what is that mentality? What was it in them to kind of go like what drove them to just going to succeed and I think that I don't know Maybe we can discuss it. But I think in my opinion, it's almost like It's like the have to mentality. Like they have to make this work.

Yeah, totally. I was about to say it's a, it's an element of burning the boats in a way. It's like we can only go forwards because we can't go back. And for my dad, I know fundamentally it was, he had a responsibility that he was working on. Right. And so he was, he looked at his current situation and said, based on what I can see around here, this is not sustainable. I've got to do something different and I've got to take the biggest jump. and the biggest leap and the biggest risk of my life. And in his mind, he could ratify that or rationalize that because he was doing it for other people. So it wasn't, so, you know, my dad's passed away now and I wish I could have these conversations with him now, particularly as I've gone through that same journey, right? But there had to be an element of going, this isn't sustainable, I need to change something. You know, so either. You know, Brenda Bashard says, so things that change, either something's gotta change in you, something's gotta come into your life or something's gotta come out of you. Right, one of those two things. And something huge came out of them. But here's a really interesting thing, I love your take on this one as well, is there's, knowing that I was the eldest son of that, of that kind of decisions, where someone went, hey man, I'm sacrificing everything to give you a chance to take that.

Hmm.

this opportunity up, there was a massive burden and responsibility that I had. So subconsciously for me, I was like, I can't afford to muck this up. I can't waste this opportunity. And so I was the hardest working grind. That was the mindset that I adopted as a way of being grateful for that, for that opportunity. I'm not sure if you can understand the context or relate to that at all.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely It's it's like a pressure right and I don't like being the eldest not that Not that they're my parents ever put this on me, you know But it's almost like this and I don't know like i'm trying to look i'm trying to like reflect back Is it what was it my pressure of my parents? I don't think so I don't think they ever pressured me to do anything other than just just do well, you know I mean just face it. You know, we're chinese family. So it's you know, just do well. That's expected of you. Um

Yeah.

But it wasn't ever forced on me, like most other Chinese parents that I know. It was almost just sort of like, just do your job kind of thing, do well. Like, you know, it wasn't for the family. It wasn't for like, you know, it was just do well. And, but I almost had, but I think I put the pressure on myself, you know? And I wired, wired it myself. It's weird. Yeah, it's like, I put this pressure on myself that I have to like make this work. And it's-

That's what I was talking about. That's what I was doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I told my parents this once actually. I actually did it in the talk. I was able to do a presentation once and my parents happened to be in the room, in the audience. And I wanted to use that talk to honor them. And the honor, you know, I basically said, it's like I talk about my parents, I talked about some of the stories that got them to where they are. And basically the takeaway I wanted to say was that they gave me a solid foundation to work with. And I just felt that it was a respond my responsibility to not f it up Basically, you know, it was like mom was my responsibility to like to carry the torch It's weird, right? And but so here's my question to you though. Here's my question to you. I'm just like trying to think but like

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you think that it's in your DNA that you were able to do that and take that torch and just go with it? Or like, is it learnt? Because what happened, I mean, we are, I guess we can call it our success story within our families. Let's say we know we've done well. But what if we didn't have what it takes to be in that, when that pressure was there,

Yeah. Yeah.

we just fricking crumbled. So what makes the difference of someone having that right mentality versus someone crumbling with that responsibility?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, look, that's a great question. And there's the whole scenario where some quite often people will say it's because of the experiences that came out. So when you study a lot of people who have done amazing things, it's the adversity quite often that they had that they had to cycle through and work through to basically succeed in their chosen endeavor. It wasn't always. easy or simple and it's the challenge along the way that really fortified that the steel resolved within them to keep going. If you look at, if you listen to people like Bruce Lipton, who's a biologist, he's done some fantastic work about genetics and DNA. Quite often they talk about that often it's in your DNA. So there's an element of that that I believe that's the case. And I trace my heritage back to Sparta. So part of my DNA is there's a warrior spirit in there, which I, it's funny because for a long time, I didn't make it wrong, but one time I embraced it. I went, okay, that's actually a part of it. That's when I got my tattoo, right? Which is the Spartan warrior, because that was me claiming my heritage, which for a long time, interestingly, I shunned when we first moved to Australia. It was like, because there was, there was, I was, we were different. I wanted to fit in.

Interesting.

And so I let go of that part of my identity for a long time. But the moment I actually claimed it and owned it and went, that's actually part of me that really helped. So there was that part of it. But then also here's the thing, you know, like, this is an observation that I found with some migrants as well too, is that sometimes some of them took the biggest jump you could possibly ever imagine, and then they played it safe for the rest of their life, but they never took another major risk ever again. It was like.

Mm. That is true.

I'm gonna load them all up, I'm gonna go for broke, and if it pays off, I'm just gonna play the safe card ever since. And that's what my family did, to be honest. Like, what they did to get to that point where we were here was phenomenal. From then on, I'd quite often go, hey, that was amazing, did you do this? No, no, no, I really butted up against that. But what I took out of that was, it wasn't unusual that if things weren't right, you didn't have the capacity to change it. And so to me, I thought it was combination of heritage, but also experience and seeing what that would be. And so my reference was, okay, if you wanna get stuff done in this world, you've gotta go all in. And that was my reference.

Yeah, and I wonder if it just wired differently. And I think there's nothing wrong with that. I don't think there's anything wrong with people not pursuing certain people. I mean, we know, I look at some people and it's like, man, I don't know how you do that. And they probably look at me and they go, I don't know how you do, how you don't do that, in a sense. But then I look at, so it's the same thing. So I wanna be very clear to the audience. It's like, we're not making this right or wrong. It's just more identifying whether or not.

No. Yep. Yep.

Are you living up to that potential that you actually have inside of you? And I think, you know, the reflection upon, you know, my grandmother this week and just thinking about my life and, you know, to be honest with you, losing my grandmother was the hard part was actually the reminder of losing my mom. Right. And it's like, it brings back all these memories of like, oh yeah, you know, I never got a chance to see my, my mom, you know, and, um, that was hard, you know, it just during that COVID period.

Mm. Yeah. Yeah.

and not being able to see her and say goodbye. That was tough. But it brings back all these memories and not gonna be able to ask those questions, you know, like you were talking about. You're not gonna be able to have those conversations that I wanna have. But the thing is, at the same time, I'm also gonna remember, and this is what I use it as fuel. I'm using this as a reminder to myself because I know I'm gonna forget, is that.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, we are on this earth for a limited time and we have this potential to be able to like do something great with it if we choose to. But that's up to us, right? It's up to us. I'm not saying like, it's just a good reminder like, hey, you got lucky. You know, like I got lucky to be placed in a position, you know, by my parents and my grandparents to be in a position to be able to like really make a good life. not just for me, for my kids, for my grandkids. And that sense of responsibility that I've forgotten about for a while, you know? And it's like, this moment is like just that reminder and going, hey, there's a lot of things that's not going right, but at the end of the day, is it really that bad? And also reminding, like, what are we doing all this for? Right, because at the end of life, the one fact of life is that we're all gonna die, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

That's we're all gonna die and at some point it might be soon. It might be a lot later I hope it's a lot later, but how are you gonna be remembered? How are you gonna remember how would people talk about you and it's and that's you know when you start thinking like that It starts to you know really put in the context of like am I really worrying about like this week and next week or you know? My bad situation where I'm trying to am I is the goals that I'm actually trying to go after And even worthy of my time

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

you know, are they big enough for the effort that I'm putting in? And yeah, it just goes to kind of, like it just creates all these questions in myself.

Yeah, and Lawrence, first of all, I can't imagine what that would have been like. My dad passed away before COVID broke out and he was in a nursing home and I couldn't have imagined what that would have been like if I wouldn't have been able to visit him. It would have been really tough. My mum, actually it's really interesting, on the day that my mum passed away, she'd been in hospital. and she was in the hospital and I had a reunion of, it was at our house, we had a hundred people in our home and these are the people that I've done a lot of personal growth and development with. And they'd flown in from all over the country, we were having a reunion and we're having it at our house, the next day we were going to a football game, you know, with my closest friends, the Tina and her female friends were going off and doing a whole lot of fun events for themselves. But we were aggregating on a Friday night at my home. And I'm driving home and my brother called and he said, listen, mum passed away. And I pulled over to the road, just wept. And then I called Bettina and I said, listen, mum's passed away. She says, do you want me to ask everybody to go? And there's a hundred people in our home. And I went, no, actually, right now. I actually could really use the love of my friends and community around. So I drove home and we spent the evening, you know, we had this bonfire in our home and we just circled up and I just got to talk my piece and honor my mom to the people who I cared about at that time. And it was a really special moment. I actually think that helped me through that to cycle through it. And I was actually able to

Yeah, wow.

um, let go of a lot of the angst around that because I actually had a community of people around me. Uh, I'll never forget that. That was just, uh, basically a ceremony that I was actually able to help with my mom. And then I went and saw her and, um, yeah. So I, as hard as those moments were, and with my dad, uh, sorry, Lawrence, I was just gonna jump in there. I got an opportunity to say goodbye to him.

Hmm.

And when he was struggling and he was still up until the last moment, he goes, okay, you want to do this and this. I go dad, everything's going to be okay. I've got this. And he could just go peacefully. So I had an opportunity to those and as hard as they were, I had closure. So I really feel and empathize that for you and what that would have been like, because I feel if it was me, it would have been really tough.

Hmm. Well, I'll tell you the story here because I think it's important for context. So my mom got sick pretty fast and you know, it was during COVID and so what's really interesting about my mom is that she's always been a... Like when it comes to like her health is really poor She was like she was a foot reflexologist and she was really always into alternative health and that's one of the reasons why I became a chiropractor and and so on so forth, but You know, but she was always really She had this thing around Wi-Fi and she just scared of like this Wi-Fi thing I know it's kind of like I know it seems like tinfoil happens. It wasn't that way It was like literally just she just did not like, you know the radiation of the Wi-Fi and stuff and so she would and so when she got diagnosed or she died, she didn't want to go get an x-ray or an MRI or anything. And I'm like, mom, could you just please just, you know, go get some so we know exactly what for. She goes, you know, I'll heal it or whatever. And I was like, oh, that's so frustrating, you know. But so the reason why I'm telling you about this was because at the end, like near the end, like I don't know if her mind was going or not, but it was like, she was adamant that

Mm-hmm.

We would not talk over wi-fi. So what does that mean? That means no facetime. That means no video. I had to call her on a landline Right. I had to call on a landline and that's the only conversation I had so I never got to see my mom I never got to see her and that's the harbour. Now. Here's the interesting thing, right? Um, you know happened like I said within months like, you know the Not the diagnosis but the thing was progressing and I can feel it I mean, I didn't have to talk to the doctor to know that it's progressing

Right. Oh man, yeah. Yeah.

And there was no chance and I was talking to my coach about it, you know, Jeff Spencer and he was talking he goes Lawrence you you need to you need to talk to your mom. You need to say whatever you need to say I go. Yeah, I know but I don't I go I think it's fine. I mean she still got months, you know She still has a time because and he gave me the best advice. He goes Lawrence Just say what you need to say He goes because if you talk if you tell them near the end of their life

Yeah.

Their mental capacity is not there. They won't hear it. They're not gonna feel it. And I was like, oh, okay, I never thought about it that way. Because what are we trying to avoid? And this is a really genuine question for all of us, right? Like what are we trying to avoid those hard conversations? Why do we avoid it? We want it, like you know, in hindsight we all want it, but yet we don't do anything about it because it's too hard. We want it, but at the same time it's hard. It's so freaking hard, right?

down. Mm. Yeah. Yeah.

And I remember doing this, I had picked up the phone, I called my mom and she's like trying to argue with me, whatever, like I was like, da, da, da, da. I'm like, mom, just stop for a second. Can I just talk to you? And she was fighting me. She was fighting, she goes like, I'm gonna be fine, I'm gonna be okay. I'm like, mom, I just need you to stop and just let me say what I need to tell you. And I just like, blah, I was like bawling my eyes out, just like.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, yep.

Tearing up and just like just I don't even know what I said, but I just said I just needed to like tell her I loved her all that stuff, right and Until I just told her like stop listen. Just listen. I just need to get this out Who's one of the hardest conversation ever had to have? But I had it and then when she realized what I needed like it was really more for me Let's face it. It was more for me than her right but when it happened when it finished You know

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It was fine. We said our goodbyes. That was fine. But that was the last time I spoke to her. like pretty much the last time I spoke to her because within a week or so, like things happened and it progressed a lot worse and then she died peacefully and you know, in her sleep. And man, like what you're saying, if I never got the chance to say those things, oh man, that would have hurt. I think like that's, and that's where I was like, I was, not that it was okay with my mom passing, but it honestly, like I was at peace because I knew it was coming.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But I said what I need to say, and yeah, I was at peace. I was at peace. Of course it hurt, of course it was painful, blah, blah, blah, but it's, yeah.

Well, there's closure, right? There's closure. And you talk to anybody who's gone through that, they've lost someone, and either things didn't finish off, the last conversation wasn't horrible, and they just run that program through their whole mind. So here's the scenario. And what, I wanna bring this back to the migrant immigrant mentality. It's actually really interesting because...

Hmm.

Years earlier, I had to cycle through the idea that because of the opportunities that I had, you know, my capacity to earn money and income was exponentially higher than my parents' one. And they were independently wealthy, but through sheer grit. So I learned that whole work hard and the linearity of that. But I got to a point where I remember one year, I earned more in a year than my dad had earned in five or ten. And... There's this concept where you feel guilt around that. If you've grown up in a patriarchal system, metaphorically speaking, and you are outearning your father, it's like the prince and the king type scenario. And I had this conversation with my dad, right? And I go, listen, dad, I just need to just have this conversation with you. And here's the scenario, I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable. He goes, and he just looked me straight in the eye, right? And he says, what do you think we moved in? What do you think we move to the other side of the world for is for you to do that? He goes and you succeed on a grand level doesn't minimize me it validates my decision to go for it and That was like that happened years before my dad passed it passed away. So it was one tough conversation as well, right because that's what I've learned is not to be scared of tough conversations and When you lean into those And sometimes those tough conversations, I'm at the effect of where my kids have gone, right, okay, as a product of your mindset and your history and hey, you're the kid of the migrant kid, I still carry programs about just working harder and faster. And so I've had to be at the effect of going, okay, I'm listening. And I'm basically open to what my kids are trying to give me information about.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I think it's like having those tough conversation means like you gotta come from a background or at least have some experience that you actually have to, you gotta have to have tough decisions and tough things you have to do. And going back to that immigrant mentality, I think back to my parents and your parents and anybody who's an immigrant, it's almost like you have to get into a position where you know and have experienced a bit of suffering.

Right, so it goes multiple ways.

and you want life to be better. And you know for us I probably think it's a little bit more challenging because you know compared to our parents or compared to most things, I don't know about you but I almost had to wire my brain to think I was suffering even though theoretically on all accounts I probably wasn't. But almost like I had to like you know create a story and maybe it was true maybe it wasn't but it was true to my mind that you know all my friends were better. or all my friends had better things, you know, and that made me kind of want to work harder to achieve that. And I wonder if I was given everything, I don't know, because, you know, it's comfortable. And so therefore, you kind of lose that drive to actually succeed. And so being an immigrant, meaning like when I moved to Australia.

Yeah. Yeah.

or you know, when I moved to Esprit, especially, I mean, when I went and had like, I don't know, $10,000 between Karen and I, and we had to make it on our own because there was no other people, like there's no one, no one, we didn't know anybody. You know, both our parents are back in Canada, and it's like, we didn't, we had to make this work, right? Of course, we always have the security that our parents are always back there, right? We can always go back, of course that, but it's almost like...

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We had to put ourselves in it. Like you said burn the ships like, you know And we had to get put ourselves in the position like there is In a sense of feeling like you have no there's no going back Right or at least a feeling like you got this opportunity do something with it And let's see where you get and and taking that risk and that opportunity That challenge I think requires at least in your head to create a story that you got one shot at this and give it a go

Yep. Yeah.

learn to fail, if you fail, great, like that's fine. There's always a safety to go back, right? But I think that's the main immigrant mentality that I think a lot of people in maybe the next generation don't have or some people don't have because you never really put yourself in a position where you have to do it on your own and you don't have that safety net, right? Like I said, safety net's there, but it's so far, it's a little bit further away. And I think that's where we gonna, that's the only way I feel.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

that we can get outside our comfort zone. This is for every little things too. I'll go into little stories here, but I would say that, I don't know, but if you agree with me, it's like missing some sort of the safety net or the safety net is a little bit further away is what causes that mentality of the work ethic that we're talking about.

Yeah. Yeah, you work it out. There's a process, I know people call it the struggle, but it's actually, in the development, I really feel that people need to work stuff out for themselves in a lot of ways to build that capacity and hard wiring, sorry, the connections within their brain, because if they don't, they don't work out that they don't have the problem-solving capacity making it happen. And... This is actually really relevant for me right now. My oldest son moved to New York last week. He doesn't know a soul in New York. He's following a dream and we're just chatting and he's as independent and as driven as I am and was at that age without question, probably 10x that. But I just, when I was chatting to him, I go, hey listen, you know what? I know you're gonna work it all out. I know that, but just know that no matter what, we've got your back. And it was just a conversation that he knew that he's got the support if he needs it. He's not gonna reach out for it. But just to know that you got, and I'll go, dude, I know you've gotta work it out yourself. I know you can work it, you've got the capacity and I want you to work that out for yourself because lo and behold, if I'm not here one day, I can't bail you out, I can't rescue you. You gotta work this stuff out. And that's one thing my dad always used to do is, if there was an easy way,

I think that's so important. I think that that part is so important.

and a hard way for me to work something out, he would make sure I got the hard way out first. He would not make it easy for me because his mind in his immigrant mentality was, dude, life can be tough. And my way of preparing you for that is to throw all the challenges at you right now to teach you the skills so that when I'm not around, you can perpetuate, you can metaphorically keep the family going because you've learned the life skills.

Well, that's so for me, I experienced that when I went to university. I know it seems like a silly story, but I wasn't like 18 years old. Went to university is, oh, you know, uh, once a university water was, but an hour away from home, so, you know, I was living in campus, so I wasn't at home. And I remember like feeling like my first couple of months, I was like really struggling, like not struggling, but I was like, man, this is scary. And, you know, studying for these tests, like everybody's smart, you know, like, you know, longer than like the top of the student, you're like, man, everybody in university is so smart. And you're like, you're like, I think of this big test. And I remember calling my mom and I'm like, and I remember asking her like so clearly, I'm like, if I fail, you're still gonna love me, right? It seems so silly. But I remember she's like, of course. Like, you know, my mom's not a very like loving and affectionate type of person. But I remember her, she goes, yes, of course, like that's silly. Like, of course I love you. And but just knowing that, like comfort zone, even though I talked about like, how not having a safety net, like I said, we all have a safety net, but it's further away.

Hmm. Yeah. 100%

Knowing that that's there, it would catch me, but not catch me from the initial pain, but it would catch me eventually. Knowing that gave me permission to take risk, right? Gave me permission to kind of go for it. I think that's a challenge being a parent, right? It's like, how do you create a safety net and comfort zone for your kids, but not so tightly wound that if they just fall, like, oh, I caught ya, right? It's like, it's gotta be.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ja, aldrig besøg. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Backed off away a little bit to though I could be you're gonna have to have a couple of tumbles before you use this safety net I think that's a challenge as a parent And and I think but you know going back to this immigrant mentality like that that push that drive I feel like if you don't you know, I feel like you need to have a sense of like This is on you. This is the sense of like there is nothing, you know that you you could lose it all and the more comfortable

Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

I get in life financially or whatever, I start to lose that. You know, and this this whole incident with my grandmother is waking that up a little bit in me to kind of remind me I'm like, Hey, don't sit here in comfort. There's more to this, like you got to stop being comfortable because that's not how you're wired. At least that's the story I'm kind of spinning in my head right now. I was like, Come on, like

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. But that makes sense. That makes sense to me. And I'll tell you why. It's because my dad always used to say, you guys have no idea what it's like to go through tough times. And so, you know, so back at home, my dad would have, you know, conserves. He'd have a storage facility. He'd have backups, food. He'd have this. He'd have toilet paper. He'd have it all. Like, it was almost like a shelter that he had ready to go. Because if all hell broke loose, he was like, we're good, right? And so he always conditioned us into the mind of, listen, you've got to be self-sustainable. You've got to work out how to be adaptable no matter what, no matter what life throws at you. And you can only really learn that when you've had to journey through that, right? You don't, and even a scenario where, you know, when we bought our first practice in order to secure a loan, I was $20,000 short. And I said, hey, dad, can you help me out with this?

Mm-hmm.

I'm having some trouble with the bank and he goes, no. Okay, but you can do it. You have the capacity to do it. He goes, no, work it out. So I worked it out, whatever, finalize it, organize it. That's probably where I started the whole structuring of deals and stuff, I'm sure. But I worked it all out, found it all out, had the strategy, organized it, paid it off. I went, hey listen, everything's done, and whatever, he goes, great, you want the money now? I go, I don't want it now, I don't need it. He goes, I go, why don't you give it to me when I need it? He goes, well if I gave it to you then, you wouldn't have worked it out, right?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So I went in your deceptive way, you taught me a really tough lesson, which now I can look back and go, that was great wisdom, but at the time I was pissed at you, man. Like you're making my life tough. So it's the balance between enabling and disempowering behavior and challenging someone to find the greatness within themselves.

Yep. Oh, what a smart father. That's awesome. That's a great story. And it's like, and that's the challenge I, you know, I constantly face in my mind. It's like, it's one of those things that haunts me is like, how do I instill like this immigrant mentality for my kids? Like, let's face it, like they are so, you know, live in luxury and you know, like they're just so over, you know, everything's given to them and there's no hardship. And it's tough to manufacture that.

Yeah.

But as an adult listening here, I think it's important for you to understand is what I guess what I'm trying to say, not necessarily what Jim's saying. I'm saying like, you gotta create a story in your head to that, you know, create like some sort of need or desire to like put a light of fire up your ass to kind of go do something, right? Because if it's, because let's face it, we're all like, if you're listening to this podcast, we're privileged, okay? Like, you know, if you have the equipment, the internet to be, most of us are privileged.

Yeah.

And so that's, we are in comfort, but the, you know, of course we all want to be better, that's why you're listening and watching this, but at the end of the day, like, unless we make it that this life that we're living right now is that uncomfortable, it most likely won't move you enough to go after what you really want. Like you have to make it almost so uncomfortable that you actually go, enough of this, I am doing this, I am moving forward, I am making that decision, I'm taking that risk. I'm not saying like go all in and like, you know, like that you can't fall back from. Like I think I've mentioned this in other podcasts, like me I'll fail fast, fail firm, which means that you still have the ability to launch, even if you fail, have the ability to take another step, make another decision and firmly on your feet that you can actually still stand to go take another shot at something else. It's not like, you know, this is the only time, but I think that there's, but there's gotta create that story in your head somehow to say like this. is unacceptable. I live a better standard. I deserve better. I need, I know I need to, I get to do this. And I think, you know, someone mentioned this. I think Tony Robbins said this. I heard this from someone else, which is like, you know, it's like successful people, like they get to, not have to. I know this is a little contradiction of what I just said earlier, but it's like, it's not about have to, but it's almost like getting to born. I get to choose to do this. I get to go after this dream of mine, which is slightly different, but I think it's still valid in the sense of

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

creating a story in your head that this life is great, but it could be so much better and there's gotta be someone comfortable with it for you to pursue. I don't know, I'm just talking and I'm hoping that it makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you, it does, because for me, it was almost, um, but I had to create a story in my mind about where I was and how I was relative to everybody else. And so for me, I think as a, as a, as a migrant kid, I felt like there was a huge, I was starting from so far behind the pack that I had to just go, right, I'll do whatever it takes. I will. follow through to not only to be seen, but also to reach where I am and achieve my outcomes and goals. So that was really hardwired into me by virtue of the fact that I didn't like that. And so in order to excel, if you don't start with the opportunities or the privileges, you're kind of running away from something. And this is what I found. So sometimes when you look at motivation, some people running away from something and then other people are running towards something. And I am clear that for my mom and dad, myself as well, a lot of immigrants, they're running away from something in some way, right? Either situation, tough situation, whatever. But at some point it's got to flip. And this is a lot of the work that I've done with my coaches over time is, dude, you have to flip that at some point. So you're running towards something else because otherwise you've always got that, um, that monster in the background. Just. in your ear telling you that you're not enough, this isn't enough, you're not good enough, you're not trying hard enough, you've got all those kinds of things that even when you achieve something you can't get to enjoy and appreciate it and find peace because you're running that different mentality. So for me there were two distinct phases where I adopted the persona of someone where it was gym against the world, took on all those things that I had to do and that worked to a point up until the point where I started achieving phenomenal things and going... Yeah, but how come I feel lousy? How come I don't feel as good as I thought I was going to do when I'm achieving all these things is because I had to flip that, that meeting and story you're talking about Lawrence to, to take on a different meeting to, to basically suddenly go, okay, dude, I'm not, I'm not that five, seven year old kid now who's, who can't speak the language. And I mean, in a pack of wolves around here, you've got to fight for your life. You're actually moving towards fulfillment and joy and contribution and your legacy and.

Yeah.

liberation and for me that was peace. That was peace.

That's so interesting. That's what I was about to say. I find in my current state, I find that, and just being raw about this is that, I'm finding it easier when the fear of losing something, like that fear of running away from something, is required for me to launch myself forward. And so I guess the...

Yeah. Talk about that, expand on that. Yeah, can you expand on that?

Yeah, so like I get where you exactly because I think my life was like that too like, you know I was always kind of like trying to prove myself to myself And so like always running away from there and then you know, and this is what I meant by you know Getting to a level of comfort, you know, you get to a position where like you're winning And you're succeeding and everything's great. And so you start to achieve those things But then I find that like I said when you get into a comfort like at least for me as I get more comfortable I felt like I've lost that tenacity and that grit and that drive. I want it, but then it's like, part of me just goes, yeah, like, do I really want it? And I'm sort of getting into the state right now, it's like, what's wrong with you? Not in a bad way, I'm just kind of like, what happened to you? And I'm not negatively talking to myself, this is just me kind of reiterating sort of how I'm feeling to myself. It's more just like, I know I'm not 20 years old anymore. And I don't need to do all those things. But I feel like what's necessary for me right now, and I'm not sure if this is true, but I feel like what's necessary for me right now in this moment, okay, not like, you know, in my age, in this moment I just feel like I need to get back to the rawness of going, I got almost gonna manufacture and I'm gonna lose it all. Just to kind of create that spark.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

and and just like Beanie initiative in a night ignite something in me To go after something and then I feel like based on what you said. I feel like at some point I Will shift back to the desire But it's almost like I feel like so analogy would be you know, I had the spark Pushed hard for a few years like a few years create a success. Everything's cruising

Yeah. Yep, yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

but it's still going, it's cruising well, but I feel like if I reflect upon life and what it's all about, I'm like, no, I can actually go faster. But in order for me to go faster, I have to almost light the boosters that I didn't even know existed, right? And that's what I mean. So I'm not going back from zero, it's more like I'm already cruising at a certain speed.

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah, well, I get that.

But because that speed is a lot faster than what it used to be, but because everything's perspective, that speed is pretty much the same for me. I feel like I'm not moving at all, but of course I am. But I need to manufacture a story in my head to kind of like, hey, you could lose this all, and almost send a spark to go like, I need to like those other boosters so I can go faster, or move towards something. I don't know, that's sort of how I'm feeling right now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we, Lawrence, we will do that. We're gonna do that. You and I are gonna do that anyway. But you know what I was thinking of when you were talking about that? You said Rocky III, Eye of the Tiger, Rocky III. Eye of the Tiger, have you seen it? Do yourself a favor, go and watch it. Rocky III, when Sylvester Stallone fights Mr. T, right? And he's, I don't wanna, I'm not a spoiler, but just go and watch it. And there's a scene on the beach.

Rocky three. No, I haven't seen it. No. Okay. Yeah.

where he talks about why, pretty much what you talked about, it was like, I'm watching this movie and I've watched this scene so many times, I can't tell you, it's not funny. Because whenever I felt like, okay, I've lost the mojo or the drive and maybe, and it happens sometimes, someone passes away, something, you get really reflective and you suddenly go, okay, where am I at right now? And I would have played, I used to have it back in the old, you know, it's how old.

Okay. Hmm.

I've had this long I've had this video. I had it in VHS tape and I'd worn out the tape. Yeah, right. I used to play it all the time and then it gets stuck on that darn thing. But so I was so glad when I went to CD and now you can live stream it. But it's actually what you're talking. Yeah, YouTube it but do watch the movie, right? Because what it talks about is the comfort and it talks about sometimes you just get back to your true self.

VHS. I was gonna YouTube that clip. No.

You're going to get back to what it was that inspired you. And let's be honest, we're not 20 anymore. So, but how can we tap into the spirit of what that was like if you need to progress and move forward, right? That's the immigrant mentality you're talking about. They're the boosters because there are physicality, there are limitations of matter. We're not going to be able to, we don't want to necessarily do that. And you and I both have a time in our lives where we want to be strategic. and a lot more discerning in terms of where we put our focus and energy. We've spoken about this offline. We're making meaningful impact and meaningful contributions and meaningful money. It's not about so back in our 20s, we could motivate ourselves to go just do whatever it takes and whatever. But with the filter of age, you go, OK, well, is this fulfilling me now? So is another metric. But I think in terms of. The link that I hear what you're talking about and the immigrant mentality is finding a way to tap into the spirit of that 20-something year old Lawrence who's happy to run through brick walls. But now as a mature person goes, dude, that's not the smartest way, but is there another way we can do this?

And one of the things that, you know, give you an answer to that, like one of the ways I've found lately is actually surrounding yourself with people, which we've done an episode on, right? The five closest friends and stuff. But it's actually, I found that you gotta surround yourself with people that inspire you or are doing things that are unique, not to say copy them, but to go, holy crap, I didn't even realize. So I was just out to lunch with someone the other day. And...

Yep.

He's actually 10 years younger than me actually went to the same university as I did in Canada and we're just having a discussion I'm like, oh, so how did you get started and he tells me the story and and he talked about like So what's your vision here in Portugal and it's like tells me this I'm like, holy crap I am thinking so small right like look I've been around with some big people like, you know, and I'm like, okay I'm not saying that that's what I'm gonna do because I have no desire but it's like okay Lawrence it's time for you to reset now and and like

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Like I said, I'm not trying to like try to emulate anybody else. It's just me. I'm just realizing I feel it I feel this this this part of me just going. Okay, there's has there's more to this story for the next 50 years and What is that gonna be and I get a choice I get get to you know design what that looks like and and I think that's the fact that some the reason why I'm mentioning this is because

Yep.

Not everyone's like this. Not everybody's in that situation because we're all different ages and different flux of life I just want to kind of go through the gamut and if you're feeling this way, it's just like hey You're not alone. You know, I just want to be real like you're not alone We don't you know, jim and I haven't figured everything out You know, it's just like we go through moments like this and that's why I want to be honest with this is like That's how i'm feeling right now Now i'm gonna come back next month and say like hey, you know all sorted and this is what i'm doing But I I want this to be part of the journey, right? The art of imperfection is just this is like we're not perfect and this is in this is the imperfection that you're seeing

Yeah.

And I'd love for you to kind of go through that journey with us to see what it turns out to be like, you know? Cause you're kind of creating and seeing it, you know, live exactly where the story is going to go. So anyways.

Yeah. And it's, and it's, it's, it's really important that you highlight that. That's really cool because back in my twenties, I would have really appreciated the 50 something version of myself to go, Hey man, there's, I would have appreciated the wisdom and that would have been great. And, but you're right about when you start associating with people that you hang around with, not only are they bigger thinkers, but for me, I found myself being gravitated to a lot younger, um, as well. So like my, my training schedule.

Yeah. Yeah.

you know, physically is with 20, 20 year olds, 25 years old. So I'm fighting 20, 25 year olds and they don't give a shit how old I am. They're going for me. And so that, you can't think, oh, I'm getting too old for this, I'm too comfortable. And by the same token, when you start talking, you know, some of the, when we were, I went off to live in Portugal and we had our group with you there, Lawrence, and there were people a lot younger, they're talking stuff in that area of tech and. crypto and I'm like, holy smoke, man, I feel like I'm a dinosaur here if I don't get with the program. And so it forces you to level the hell up. And I think that's, that's incumbent. That's really helpful. That's, that's the spirit of what I'm talking about is the, my immediate my game is like, you're going to challenge yourself. You can't get to the point where you're going uncomfortable and I'm going to stay in my bubble when I listen to 1990s music indefinitely. It's like, man, get out there, get out of your cocoon, just keep checking yourself, keep forcing yourself. And if you're younger partner up with someone who, who you, who actually can see you and go, yeah, I can see where you're going to, you might want to consider this, this and this, but let you run your own show. I think that's really, there's a really magical, I was talking to a lady who says, I don't know whether it was in Japan where they say that the perfect combination of a young entrepreneur is with an old head, someone who can just steer them through just the process and that

Yes.

collaboration is one that shows up the highest level of success.

I remember listening to, I was in a seminar when I was a student and one older chiropractor said, hey, listen, I'm still passionate about practice and things are just kind of just taking along. What's your recommendation? And the speaker goes, he goes, go hire young firecracker. And I was, I still remember this. And I was like, and he's like, because right now you're cruising, you're passionate, but you're cruising. And when you...

Yeah, that's it.

bringing on a young firecracker who's just gonna light you up, who's 20 years old, who just comes out of school and just ready to rock and roll, you just need to be reminded of that energy that you used to have. It doesn't mean that you're gonna go after the same energy because obviously you're 20, 30 years later, but you need to remind that that spark is still in you. Your advice around younger people, that's exactly right. I hang around with more younger people. I think this is encouraging for anybody who's younger, like 20, 30s.

Yeah. Yep.

Listening to this like, you know listening to two old guys kind of talking. I can't believe I just said I'm old But you know like 23, but the thing is is to realize that

If it helps you Lawrence, I'm a little bit older than you. So you suddenly just, you're the second oldest on the podcast.

But if you're in 2030, there's your advantage, right? The thing is that, I remember when I was 20, 30, I never thought, even if you're like these guys who are so experienced and stuff like that, you kind of just forget about your power. Your power is, if you're 20, 30 years old watching or listening to this, is that your power is that you have that unfiltered rawness and tenacity and drive and boundless of energy in the dream, the vision that you have and the grand vision. Yeah, we don't get we don't have that as much anymore doesn't mean we don't have it in us But we also know like there's a certain things that kind of we're almost like too smart for our own good You know because we all know like oh that can't be done, but it's our own thing I'm not saying that that's right or wrong by saying but when you're younger, it's like kids. They don't know what's not possible And there's some beautiful this beauty in that and that's what I think that the power and the strength if you as a 20 30 year old listen to this and go if you can own that right

Yeah.

You can leverage that and partner up with someone who is older and a little bit wiser, who can help you guide you through the nail. And that's what coaching is all about. Coaching isn't about telling you what to do. Coaching is about knowing where the road bumps are gonna be before you even know it. And their job is to gonna warn you about those roadblocks and those bumps and those dead ends so that you can not totally avoid it, but just try to.

Yeah.

get you past them unscathed as best as possible. That's all we're doing. That's all we're doing. We're just helping you. We already know what's around the corner. We already know it's coming. We can't save you from all of them, but there are potholes. There's roadblocks ahead of you, and we're just trying to prepare you so you can be more prepared for them. You can't avoid all of them, but just more prepared for them. And this is why I think it's such an important thing to really balance the people that you hang around with. And I think that draws in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The immigrant mentality or leave you one more thing. I want to say one more thing. I'll love you to you to kind of finish up here Well, the other thing I've been doing a lot of reflection upon and this is what I'm doing And I want to share this with you and I don't know if it work But I've been thinking a lot about The future self my future self, you know, I'm 48 years old this year It's like my future self like what would my 50 year old or 55 year old version of myself Be like, you know and because I'm manufacturing that I go well

Yep.

because I'm trying to use that as a guiding post of what I need to step into and what I need to step up from here. And as an exercise, I would love for anybody to kind of try that on. It was like, maybe think from your goals, not from your current self, but from your future self, because no matter if you achieve or not achieve your goals, your future self is waiting for you. And how do you want your future self to look like and be like? Because that's what those goals are for. And if those goals are not big enough for that future self, that you hope to have, then maybe you need to shift your goals to a higher level so that that future self is waiting for you to come in a couple years time.

Yeah, that's great. What I would add to that in closing to you, Lawrence, is that I think anytime you want to progress and move forward, there has to be an identity upgrade as well. You've got to actually upgrade your identity to the person, your future self that you're talking about, who's going to be the person who makes that happen and makes that come true. I think I'm at a really interesting point in my life where I can look back and claim and own the great attributes and the skills and the the habits as a part of my pedigree, part of my migrant background and claim them and I'm going to appreciate them and use them to move forward in a way that is a little bit more considered, a little bit more wise and basically going, okay, you've taken the opportunity and there'll be people out here who may not be able to relate to it because they haven't had the background that we've shared. That doesn't mean that you can't take the learning and the lesson out of that. You can actually go, okay, All right, so where in my world am I not challenging myself? Where can I put myself in a scenario to find what I'm capable of? So it's not, you don't have to be a migrant or a migrant kid to actually have the right to actually talk about it, but you can take the, it's like buying a book, right? Someone dedicates their whole life to a story, writing it, and I can go and pick it up for 20 bucks. This is what we're basically saying. You don't have to have been a migrant. You can actually take the learnings and lessons and challenge yourself to move forward by adopting those skills of, I'm just gonna find a way, I'm gonna make it happen. If I don't like what's around here, I have the capacity to change it. And as you said, Lawrence, sometimes you've just gotta think in terms of your future self, in terms of who I need to be to step into it to make that happen. I think I'm done, I think I'm cooked.

right? The immigrant mentality doesn't require you to move countries to be an immigrant, but you moving, you know, so this is what you're saying and what I heard was that if you challenge yourself to do something that is outside of your comfort zone and outside your norm, you are an immigrant in a way because you're doing something, you're migrating to something that's different and that's when you can adopt that mentality. So

Okay. No, it doesn't, it doesn't.

I hope that you everybody listening to this will take up that challenge and I really appreciate all of you spending the time with us listening to us and you know Babylon and talk about our lives But I really hope that you get something out of it to really challenge yourself and really challenge You know colleagues and friends and please share this do our podcast with anybody that you feel like was going to help them with Their lives so make sure you like us share us, you know Give us a review on any channels that you are listening or watching this please and I dedicate this

Yeah, that's good.

to my grandmother and my mom. See you next time.