Unpacking Certainty and Uncertainty

Welcome to Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. And today we have a doozy I think is important because you know why? Because the topic was chosen by Jim out of pure frustration. And I love that. I love it when we kind of get emotional about a topic because that's usually when the best things kind of come out because it's not just like, oh, just randomly choosing a topic and then going for this is a topic that is irritating or it's something like underlying that's causing us to kind of want to talk about this. So this is therapy session for Jim and I right now. So let's go, Jim.

Yeah. All right. So it, thanks Lawrence. Um, gosh, I was just saying to you just before, like we were talking about another topic, totally unrelated to what we're talking about today. Just before that would have been phenomenal to have recorded, but nonetheless, let's, uh, let's focus on what we're focused on next episode. Um, yeah, really this week, uh, some context for this, um, you ever been in a situation where you're talking to someone, whether it's in a professional capacity, even just a casual interaction and

next episode.

You they've got all these rules that they have to follow through. Like this has to happen. And then that has to happen. Or, you know, Oh, when you're 25, you get married and you, when you were 28, you get married. You do this at 40 and there's so much rigidity in this that you try to ask someone a question and they're just so closed off to anything other than that predetermined path. And so I really have to dissect that and go. you know, what's the right ratio between certainty, uncertainty, what's the right approach and are there multiple ways to get to the outcome? You know, so that's what I wanted to create as a context for the talk.

It's funny. Did you, your question was, did I, have I ever met anybody or had a conversation? And the absolute answer is yes, I just had it with a person today with myself. That person that I've had the conversation with. Yeah, yeah, really well. To be honest with you, like I think in the last couple of podcasts, you know, people sort of sensing that, you know, I've been in on a, like a journey of reflection on trying to figure out a certain path of where I'm, where I'm going basically. And I'm happy to admit that. And

Yeah, right, okay. Someone you know, someone you know really well. oh

You know, it's great to record these on a weekly basis because it's like, it's just seeing the journey is not to figuring anything out. Like I haven't solved this problem, even though it's been around for a while, but I'm getting closer and closer. had a good chat with, you know, a couple of friends and, they're kind of, you know, adding some layers to it. But the reality is, yeah, I realized that I'm on a stage of, of where I'm just like, I'm evaluating, you know, most things in my life. And I'm having that conversation as what, just like you said, is like these, these sticklers. I'm like, why do I do that?

Yeah.

or why do I think like that or why do I feel like this is the only way? And I think that the reason why most of us do it, at least I can answer for myself, the answer that I've come up with is because either someone has ever, someone's taught me that, like this is the way you do X, or I have created a belief system because it worked for me in the past to do it this way, so therefore I stick to it. or three, I just have like some blind faith to something that or maybe it's unconsciously chosen for me in a way. Like it just, didn't really think about it. I just do it. And I'll give you specific reasons. Like if I asked a question like, Jim, you know, um when you, when you brush your teeth, you know, which hand do you grab the toothbrush with? Obviously it's gonna be the dominant hand. So you don't even need to answer that. But what part of your tooth, your teeth do you start with? You know, top left, bottom right, you know, so on and so forth. And if I asked you like, where did you learn that? You probably most likely going to say, and I don't know, you can answer it if you want, but the most likely answer is like, I don't know. I just started doing it. That's how I've always done in my life. Right. That's so that's what I mean by an unconscious sort of belief or unconscious thing that we just do out of habit. And I think there's a lot of things that are our life, whether it be our workout patterns, maybe the way you wake up, ah maybe it's the way you eat or you choose, you know, how you make decisions. I think sometimes, sometimes it falls in that category of unconsciousness sometimes is being taught. And sometimes it's. just because it worked in the past.

Yeah, like a lot of the times that you talked about influencing, sometimes you make up your own ideas, but a lot of times you're influenced by mother, father, preacher, teacher. They basically say, you know, so there's, there's people of significance and authority in your life and world that have a really big influence on it. Sometimes a disproportionate influence on what you do and you don't question that. So you kind of adopt it as your own. And then you get to this inconvenient truth at some stage where you go, well, Is it really true that way for me, or is this where I really think, or is this something that I've adopted either because of convenience by locality or just, haven't really given it that, that context and thought. So I think that's a lot of it. And, know, in addition to that, I got invited to, to, um, be a guest on a podcast during the week as a guy from my jujitsu school, fantastic new initiative. Uh, he's a, he's a, he's a, philosopher as well. Like, it's funny how you find each other. I've got. happy medium between warrior and philosopher, you know, and I, and I, really, I really enjoy that part of my personality. And he, I thought he invited me because it's very jujitsu based. I thought we're to be talking about that. And we went on this whole tangent on philosophy. so halfway into the podcast was the first time even the thought of philosophy of jujitsu started, but what there was a, there was a theme in the, on the podcast that really got me that I guess was the synthesis and the start of this was, you know, is there, is there more than one truth? You know, and is there absolute truth? Are there multiple truths? Are there different avenues to truth? I guess this was the, and now I reflect back on this was the start of the frustration because as I was thinking about it, I just went, well, what may be true for you, maybe not true for me. So how is it that, and is it the absolutism of someone's message that actually makes them us feel that what they're saying is true. So thoughts on that.

man, we can go down some deep rabbit holes here. And the first thing that comes to my mind was when you said that was like, I stumbled on this random video on YouTube video on the 911 conspiracy and what they're not telling us. I'm like, and it wasn't like some random like some because it was Tucker Carlson, right? It was it was a part one. I'm like, Okay, what is it? Because I mean, I was just in New York, like about a month ago, we went to the 911 Memorial, like I've been there a couple times. And I show the kids and

I know, I know. Yeah, yeah.

You know, and I remember distinctively from 9-11 mostly because, well, for some reasons we were old enough to remember it, and within a lifetime, it was four days before my wedding. And, um, and I still remember I had an exam, a chiropractic exam I had to write that day, you know, right after that. Um, it was an important exit exam or entrance exam or some sort of exam that, that I had to write, um, and perform at after watching those two towers come down. And it was, so was very memorable and it's, it's probably one of the tragedies that you remember, know, you go to more World War Two memorials and stuff like it's in the past, you weren't alive at that time. But for this one, I was alive. I knew exactly what I was doing when I heard these things. Yeah, exactly. I remember, I remember I was the one who woke everybody up in the house because I was way Karen's house to you know, things like that. So it just sticks in your memory. Where was it going that so anyway, so then I watched this video on 9 to 11. It's like, how do I not know this? And then at the same time, I'm like, wait, wait, wait a second.

Yep. It's like when Princess Diana died, right? A lot of people remember that kind of stuff. Yeah.

this is messing up with my brain. Like I know this one truth. And then now you're telling me this, I'm like, oh, maybe it is. And so it starts to kind of pull on this. And I feel the reason why I'm mentioning this is because, I mean, I hate the word conspiracy sometimes because it just makes it almost like, well, that's just kooky, you know, stuff, right? Let's forget about that term. It's just like, there's a different perspective that someone is sharing. I feel like more and more of that information or uh feedback

Yeah, yeah.

is coming to light. um Now, why is that? And we gotta tackle that, right? Because that's important. Number one is that we have more access to more information than we ever have, okay? Two, I think with the AI, introduction of AI now adds to that fuel because you have access to, it's not, before we had information, but you have access to direct information faster. So therefore, like it just speeds up that notion. But three, we're also in this, you know, um changing world order, right? Of what Ray Dalio kind of talks about. if Ray Dalio is right around the changing world order, we are getting to this point, at least in the Western society, especially in America, it's like in this internal conflict that's actually happening and it's playing out right in front of our eyes. And then we have also this distrust in the media or at least in political powers of what they're doing and what they're saying. When you have all of those combination, you start to question everything, right? And I think that this is where people are really starting to question. I don't think it's unhealthy to question. think it is, that's what I think we're talking about is like, is it healthy or is it not healthy? When is it unhealthy? When is it unhealthy? All these things are really important to kind of dissect. um But yeah, I think that your perspective of life or your perspective on a particular subject is gonna be very different than ours. and you can see that, and this is what causes a lot of conflict around the world in terms of war and also just differences of opinion. And we almost get stuck. feel like this, problem I feel in this world right now is that we get so stuck into our hell holding onto our beliefs that we're not actually having a very communicative dialogue that actually can feel like we can disagree.

Yep. Yeah. I agree. Totally. Like I think that level one of negotiation is basically what's called positional. You know, if we adopt a position, you adopt a position that's here, I'm here and we argue for that position. We never actually get communication. And so we're never actually going to follow through. if my, and this is, this was the theme of the podcast that we talked about was it was talking about philosophy and it got to religion. interestingly, it was like, Okay. The, is there a one truth, you know, in that capacity, how is it possible that we've got so many billion people on this planet? And, know, like, we all fundamentally moving toward one direction? And, but what I agree with you, what's happened that has been really destabilizing is for the longest time, we had what we've assumed were foundational pillars of truth. or belief or continuity or in areas of society and government that we had a level of trust in. And so consequently we could uh debate, argue things at a more high sort of level because we knew there were foundational pillars that supported us. But the moment you destabilize that you throw into uncertainty. then you suddenly go, what is true? What is true? I building this belief system around basically a flawed foundation?

And that's the hard part, right? Because we are, answer your question around, you think about going to a crime scene, right? We take evidence from, what do you call it? My mind's kind of going blank right now. A witness, right? Well, a witness, right? So the same thing could be happening, but a is gonna tell the story with multiple different kind of storyline based on their perspective of that incident.

This CSI, but yeah.

It's just the way it is. And I think that we have this filter. I remember there was a mentor of mine, like Richard Dixanto, who talks about how he saw the world. And it was just an interesting way. It's not exactly how it works, but I like his analogy. His analogy is like, we oftentimes see the world through our eyes as if it's actually through like 3D glasses, right? There's like these glasses and they're filters. And that filter is based on all the things you're

Hmm.

your mother, your preachers, your dad, your father, your parents, all that stuff where you talked about it, it creates and all the unconscious things that we put it, and that is the filter. And we see the world, right, coming into our brain through those lenses. But your parents and my parents are very different. We come from very different backgrounds. And you you being Australian, me being Canadian, use that as an example, like we saw the world differently, you know? And so therefore we could see the same thing, but we'll perceive it differently. because of the filters we already have in play. think that's where it kinda, it doesn't mean that the, see the thing, the main people need to understand is that the situation, right, is the same situation. It's just that the perception of that situation changes based on the eye of the beholder, right? And that's the main difference.

And things are rapidly changing in that perspective. And so I agree. It's very difficult to like, there's a guy who wrote a book I mentioned to you just before we started, Lawrence called Vishen Lakiani, wrote a book called The Code of the Extraordinary Mind. And he's also involved in an organization, transformational work called mind Valley. And he, in his book, he talked about them as rules, B R U L E S, which is an acronym for short for BS rules. And these are the things that there are rules. And then the ones that I liked, I love the term is BS rules, rules that aren't actually true, but we've somehow incorporated those and. You know, they don't, they don't always serve us. They, they stop us for really thinking about what we're thinking about. And, and, and they designed, as you said, for efficiency, a lot of the times, it's just so much more convenient to just do what everybody else does. Follow what I've been told, never actually challenge our own assumptions, our own beliefs and really get to core of what's going on. Unless we're under compression and there are events externally that make us stop, pause and reflect and go, do I really believe this? Or have I just been conditioned to think this way?

Hmm. And it's I've been thinking a lot about this for myself, because as I try to kind of think about where I'm towards, I need to start thinking about why do I think and behave like everybody else? Because that's not going to help me anyways. And it helps me in a certain aspect, but also recognize that I need to if you want to stand out, you kind of have to have your own original thought, right? You want to have to kind of come up with like, do you believe in everything you say? Or do you put sorry, not everything you say, but do you believe in anything that's been taught to you? Um, and these BS rules, love to kind of hear what do you think? What are some of the BS rules that he talked about? what, give us some, some examples, some of the

Well, yeah, well, I, it's been a long time since I've the book, right? So, but, but a lot of them were around constructs and frames about how it has to happen. Like, you know, you have to have this to be happy, or you can, you know, you'll have, um, kids when you're young, kids, when you're old, you can't start a company when you're old, you can't start a company where you're young. you, know, you can't be the one is like, can't be, um, wealthy and happy. Who said that, you know, like I'd rather be, I'd rather be poor and happy than rich and miserable. I know a lot of rich people who are very happy, know, so you deconstruct that, but it's sometimes it these BS rules are in play to, uh, perpetuate a narrative or a justification. And when we really challenge those, that's when we get to, what was the reason behind that rule? Was it just to contain or was it just to justify?

Yeah, the first thing that kind of comes to mind is a BS rule, but it's like, because of its most trend, right? Because we kind of follow trends as humans beings, we kind of follow certain trends. And the trend in the last, let's just say the last say five years has been like, wake up early at 5 a.m., right? And we can kind of pinpoint that, listen, I do wake up at 5 a.m., but I'm not saying that everybody should, and that's key. But that comes from Jocko, right? And then it goes, but then you got to take your ice bath in the first thing in the morning. Okay, well, that comes from Wim Haw.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

and then you gotta do your smoothies or whatever, meditate for half an hour, and then all these things happen. So you have this whole morning routine. Does it lead to success? I don't know, for some people, yes it does, but for some people, now you're at 10 o'clock, like, have you actually done anything productive? And I think that this is, and again, I'm not suggesting that

Yeah. Yeah.

None of those things work. think they do work. think like, you know, but it's but it's not the hard fast rule just because it works for a group of people doesn't mean it will work for you.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And you know what? sometimes look at my old man and, know, like he was a very nearly riser. He'd get up, have a cup of coffee straight into work. He's done four hours before you've done your morning, your routines and your rituals done half a day. Right. So I agree with you. It's about optimization, but sometimes we've got to go. Okay. Right. Okay. What's what's the happy medium? What what's optimization and what's then just avoiding things to prime to prime to prime. You know, like, and you have to question those things, you know, because I agree. Any one of those, um, I go, yeah, I can, it'd be helpful. But when someone says, no, this is the only way that happens. I just go, I don't really like that. Or I get, I love the smoothies, but I get hungrier in the morning. You know, like that's just, so I've, I just got to, I've got to look at this and go, is this true for me?

Yeah. Yeah. For you, exactly, for you or for me, right? That that's the main element. And I think this is why you sort of asked an earlier question. Is there anything that's an absolute truth? And to kind of like, I don't know, not necessarily answer that or to kind of provide some sort of clarity on that, on how I think about this is that. I think the reason why we follow, let's go with this whole habit, right? The ritual in the morning. The reason why most people need that is because most people don't have enough discipline, me included, to think for ourselves of what's important, so therefore we just follow through with whatever's being kinda given to us. And we just add on. Now, for people who are not disciplined, having a discipline is actually very, very helpful, right? it's very, very helpful because it puts you on track to kind of create routines and change your life. But for people who already are structured, adding more to your routine actually creates stress and an obligation. And I think that, so therefore, we take what we do as human beings, and I'm so guilty of this, is that you learn from one mentor and go, that worked for them.

Yep, yep, I can see that.

I don't want to necessarily be like them, but if I just take that, I think I'll be like them, right? This is how branding works, right? If I purchase, you know, a perfume from, I don't know, whatever, my wife is gonna look like that actress I see on camera, right? Or if I wear that watch, I'm gonna be just like Brad Pitt in Drive-A-Form in one car, right? That's how your brains work. And that's how advertising works. That's what they prey on. Well, it's the same thing here. It's just that he goes, if...

Hmm. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

I wanna be like Tony Robbins, I just gotta do his routine, right? If I wanna be like, know, sitting in ice and have a all day, you know, in a bathing suit in the ice like Wim Hof, all I just have to do is just his breathing technique, right? And the reality is, that we pick and not only we do just follow one, no, no, no, no, no, we just don't stop at one, right? Cause we have like five people that we admire. So we take the best of all five, we just kind of culminate it and put it together and thinking that if I just do all of these five, I'll become

Yeah. Yeah.

not just better, like one would be better than all five. Like that's just our brain kind of positions itself. And now we just create routines that not necessarily might work for us. And there's no different than choosing a particular diet that work for, you know, maybe 80 % of the people, but it may not work for you because your body's hormones or your dietary or your stomach or experiences or whatever doesn't agree with that particular diet. We stick with, I was a vegetarian for like, I don't know how many years. And then not realizing it like, eh, that's just, you know, because I actually, I went to a Tony Robbins seminar and said, okay, he's a vegetarian. Like, all right, so let's eat vegetarian. And then you realize I'm like, like, why did I do that? You know, and until you start questioning it.

Yeah. Yeah. I did the same thing. I actually did the same thing. Went to Tony unlimited power, uh, um, seminar. Yeah. Did the last day and I went, right. I'm going vegetarian. And to be fair, I lost, you know, a bit of weight. Um, but my energy levels went through the roof. Right. I went through the roof, but then I, but then they plateaued and then they started going the other way. Um, and so.

Yeah, UPW, exactly. oh

You know, the power of identity sometimes is, I read this post recent note, this article recently when, when you affix your identity around a particular behavior, it's very difficult then to change it. So if you become the paleo guy or the vegan guy, and suddenly you go, this doesn't serve anymore. You're trapped. Right. And if you have all this validation around it, it's really, so I had a friend of mine who

Yes, it's very, very hard.

Uh, used to podcast, I used to record a podcast with, he was the vegan, he was a vegan chef and like, um, it was like vegan, vegan, vegan all the time. And then like, I didn't see him for a while and now he's gone totally carnival. I'm like, dude, I, you whiff lash me, but, but he would, but he had to just, he had to just go back in this and go, I went so far into the identity that after a while I realized this isn't serving me, but I was trapped. And I was doing this for longer because of the perception or the identity and the brand that I built for myself. So I was trapped in my own identity. I couldn't change that as a, as process. So now he's basically, um, carnivore chef says very

Okay, wait a second. Just so I'm clear on this. So he was a vegan chef.

He's a vegan chef and he was vegan, right? And he's gone totally the other way. Carnival.

Okay, but now, so now he identifies himself as a carnivore chef?

No, as in carnival, carnival, he's still, but he's gone total carnival. And so no, no, no. So good question. better go check. No, but I don't think he does, but I think it's more that he's just gone. Okay. That was, I was, I felt better. And then I, but I got trapped in our identity and then I.

Okay, but does he identify himself as a carnivore chef? Yeah, well, that's what I was, I was hoping that he didn't do because I hope that he learned his lesson from trapping himself in the first I did. didn't create another dude. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, no, no, no, no, sorry. probably, I probably community, I probably confused you in there, but he, but that was just, I guess it highlights to the power of how difficult it is to change identity. If information and rule and sort of not even rules, but new evidence comes to light that says, Hey, you know, you've been doing this this way. There's another way you go. Oh, okay. I, I didn't realize I thought there was only one way.

Absolutely. Well, that's trap I'm kind of in right now, right? Because you feel like I feel like I have to be a certain way because I've already built my whole brand and identity up to this point. But it's so hard, I gotta say, just be honest with you, it's like it's so hard to let go of the identity I build to change into something else. Not change necessarily, but to add and stack on. And that's why I'm not expecting it to go overnight to kind of just change, but it's just to.

Yep.

to wait and see and also allow it to evolve. um But that's challenging. It's hard on the psyche is what I'm saying. I feel like I am lost in identity because not that I don't have one, it's just that I feel like I've evolved from the identity I used to have. And so therefore it's like I'm in this transitional weird period and until the new one establishes, I'm sort of like in between.

Yep.

and you feel kind of lonely and feel lost. And this is where what happens when you're challenging that, ah those ideas or these rules is because at first you have to identify you're stuck in a rule and then you then you got to go through this pain of going like, well, what is the new rule? Like, you know, I like that rule, but if it doesn't serve me, how? And then you sort of get lost there, right? And that's the discovery phase that you're kind of lonely in that journey because you almost can't really tell people about it.

Yep. uh

because people will see you like, you were that guy, you know? And then so therefore you kind of feel kind of lost and you, but you got to find your new path. You got to stick with it. And it's really difficult to do that, to stay on your own path on your own by yourself.

Yeah, that, that, I, that phase I call identity purgatory because you don't really, you're not really anywhere. You're not earthbound. You're not heaven bound. If that's what your belief systems are. And I felt that when we're living in Spain for a while, I felt like I was in a pool of water, but I couldn't touch the bottom. And so you do go through that period because if you have your foundational pillars and belief, you can actually touch the bottom. go, okay, I know this is solid, but when you're under discovery, um, everything's different, everything's changed. can't really grasp onto things. some great bit of wisdom that, that helped me through that process was whenever you're shifting in things, you don't have to marry the new identity. You can just date a couple of aspects of that. You can just try some things and go, how do I feel about that? Or follow my curiosity around this path and see how I feel. And then over a time you start building the layers and the consolidation and the myelination in your nervous system that helps make it feel more normal and feel solidified. But yeah, it's, it's a, it's a really, you know, in order to change certainty, you've got to go through uncertainties and then go to certainty again. But that period in between is quite destabilizing and, and it, and it, and you know, you're not really sure, you know, and that confidence that comes from having a place of certainty, not. Not a righteousness, but certainty and just that feeling of, yeah, this is I'm back myself. You do have to cycle through that period of not having it for a while as you're learning. It's kind of like, uh, basically cement that hasn't hardened just yet. It's very mushy. looks like concrete, but it's not really stable enough to bear your weight. That's the period that I identify as that transition period.

It is uh it affects all ages as well and and and I remember the first thing that comes to my mind when you're talking about that is is what my kids are going through, you know, in a sense that they they're obviously born Australian uh but have Canadian parents and now live in Portugal and but it's not like they identify themselves Portuguese and they kind of feel like they're Australian but they

Yep.

I don't know, at the same time, they don't have that Australian accent. They don't have that same Aussie background that most people would have. And so they kind of like feel, know sometimes it's not a huge deal, but I know it's underlying. It's like a more like a lower level internal inside of them. can sense it with them is that they just don't know necessarily where they belong. know Karen feels that way. actually, know, and it's funny because again, this is different people's perceptions, right? Because Karen feels like,

Yep. Yep.

I don't know where I belong. She says that several times because, you know, born in Canada, but then to British parents lived in Australia and now live in Portugal. Like, you know, where's home, right? Whereas me, I take totally different perspective. I go, I'm Canadian, I'm Australian, I'm Chinese. I'm a war citizen. I just, I take on all of them. Like, you know, if I go to the Olympics, I'm cheering for Olympics. Like I'm cheering for Canada and Australia at the same time, you know.

Yeah. Well, that's I was about ask you. That's exactly what I was about to ask you was, okay, so when the national anthem happens, do you get a pull? Because now I'm suddenly going, okay, I've got a soft spot for all of them, you know, because that's a part of me.

Yes. Yeah. I, I, I, if, if, the hardest part is usually when, when they're competing against each other head to head, right? It doesn't, because I usually like, will take whatever side's winning and in terms of, if it was like, uh, you know, a certain sport, right? Like for example, cycling, you know, Australian, like me cyclists is usually typically better than, uh, that, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah, we won. Yeah.

But if it's like a head to head competition, let's say swimming, let's just say swimming is an Olympic sport, I'll lean towards Australian. uh Because I don't know any Canadian swimmers, but if Canada wins medal and Australia wasn't even in contention, good for Canada, I'll cheer for that. But I lean more Australian than I would for Canada in that sense. that's my most recent nationality. I spent 20 years of my life, spent most half of my life there.

Yep. Yep. Yep, yep, yep.

um I kind of lean that way for sure. But I have a soft spot for everything. No different than New Zealand has a software for us Australians, right? Because that's the world. Unless it's at the rugby World Cup, right?

Oh yeah. Where exactly it's kind of like the little cousin and um that you really like them, but they, yeah, then they suddenly grow up and you're like, wow, little cousin. You're uh a lot bigger than I was when I used to push you around as a, a, as a little one. So, um, yeah, I, I, I, what you said about Karen makes a lot of sense, you know, in, I've, I've always tried to make sure that I belonged. I feel I belong wherever I am. I've really tried very hard to do that and not give credence to the, could feel lost, but I always wanted to go, my home is my home. And no matter where I am, that's, that's what, and, and, and there's something that solidifies me to that. And that's what I've, I've really worked hard to try and do is I, can, I'm, feel like I'm a global citizen. I can actually move around. have the freedom and flexibility. And with that, because even, you know, but, but generally we're talking about, okay, you're based in Scotland right now. What would happen if things change, where would we go next? And would we stay here? And I, and it's like, I'm suddenly gone, mate, you must be getting itchy feet. You've been in a place for a year and it's not that I invite it, but I don't, I'm not scared of it either.

No, exactly. And I think I mentioned this before, but Demartini, you know, said, you know, in a talk that I was in my first year of Chiropractic College in 1998, so close to almost, you know, long, long time ago, 30 years ago, he said this one line and it's always stuck with me. And I think that it has shaped me for who I am today, which is what you just saying, which is that he said, the world is my home and every country I visit is just a different room in the house.

Yep. Yep.

And that's how I see the world. And I'm like, I really love that. I fell in love with this first time I heard it and it just has stuck with me. And I feel like that's the change that people, like again, it's just the perspective, right? So it's like, I just shared my wife's perspective and my perspective. They're just different. And it's not to say that one's right over the other, but I just see the world differently. I see the world very similar to you. does, don't necessarily, I make wherever home I'm in to be my home and. the home is my world. It's just like, don't need something, I don't need something to ground me. And I think this, you when the kids were young, uh it was always a difficult, it was always in a confusing and difficult conversation for them because of nationality versus ethnicity, right? So for, you know, because nationality is where you're born or what, you know, what passports you hold or whatever, you know, they also, they used to say like, we're Canadian. I'm like, Well, technically, maybe, yes, you have a passport, but you've never been there. So I'm not sure if you can classify. But I'm not gonna say no, they do not. really, I've always wanted them to be like, just be proud Australians too, right? That's your number one thing. And yeah, you are Canadian to an extent, mostly because through us, but it doesn't make you necessarily Canadian. But there's also the ethnicity question, which is like, you know, I'm Chinese and my wife is Caucasian, British. So it's like, you you have all of these things. because... because I see the world that way, it doesn't really matter. Like I just see all of us being the same. It's just that I can label and create these identities to suit my needs. Where some people, again, and I'm not making this wrong, but some people need an identity to kind of fall into to feel safe or feel more secure.

And you know what an interesting thing does happen when your kids grow up and they move out of home and you've suddenly another dimension of freedom happens, which is what happened with us where you suddenly go, okay, well, okay, we're in Portugal now for you kids are at school. And so I would imagine for a period of time up until the schooling's done, you gotta go, well, we're to be here for that bit, take that chess piece out. And suddenly you've got, you've got, you know, like in my case, you know, European, EU passport, um, and, Australian passport and the capacity to be a golden visa in some other countries or an EB five in the U S whatever it is, suddenly you go, well, what does that look like? You know, and, and I think it's, it's kind of like the analogy I had was when growing up, if your family were very, very poor.

No?

And you wanted to do things. was sometimes easier for you, for you to take, for your parents to go, listen, we can't do it. We can't afford it. It's not an option. And you knew that was true because you knew that there was no option. But when you know you have means and you're still not doing things and you're saying, no, there's other factors at play. All right. That's not just, we can't do it. not possible. So what happens then is when you've got.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

I've tried, I've worked really hard. I didn't realize how important a value of freedom was to me until it happened. But I think it's more about choice. But to me, I got to the point where suddenly go, okay, if I've adopted your mindset, you know, your mindset, which I have a very similar one about, Hey, life is, as you said, the world's my home and yeah. And I have that same approach to what happens when you've got no, um, basically inclin- not, nothing that roots you to a specific area you live into. You've got multiple avenues for citizenship and you've got some money. Suddenly you've just gone, okay, well, I'm now can set up, I'm open to infinite possibility. And that to me is then I'm only limited by my own limitations, the own, the own rules that I bring up to myself. And I'm not saying that- You know, I'm, you know, you live forever and what, but, but there's so many factors that, that I've worked hard to, uh, collapse to give me choice. Then if I'm doing something, I'm not doing something. usually comes down to will and my own rules that I've put up for myself. If those factors aren't at play, does that make sense? Yeah.

Oh, absolutely. as my Tiger 21 members, or people that I've seen that live around the world, some of them are still in the same place where they were born or raised, right? And some people are now global citizens. I've spoken to so many people now as candidates, because I just started a global group here in Europe, which means they're not really... The Portugal group I have is for people who live in Portugal. who basically attend a live meeting every month. My global group, we meet online. And so I have candidates, I have people, members that are from Croatia to Dubai, but they're not from Dubai, they're from Germany, or to, you know, like who's an American who lives in Milan. And like, you know, all these types of people are all around the world and they travel the world, you know, and one of the guys I just spoke to is like, he just exited and, you know, have this new found wealth on Net Worth and- His goal is to travel 200 countries, 200 regions, 200 countries slash regions, because sometimes some countries are not identified, some regions are not identified as countries. So like he has his goal and he's on number 78, you know? And so he's he's traveling and he's trying to make up for lost time or he's just traveling the world and that's what his life, he's based in Dubai. He is early 40s. Yeah, early 40s, maybe even late 30s. Yeah, tons of time.

How old is he? How old is he? Okay, okay, it's the time. It's the time. Yeah, really

Right? so they, you know, I've got six kids. So, you know, he's got to like travel and do all these things. And what I'm saying is, is freedom. And that's what, you know, we talk about what wealth brings into a lot of people's lives is that it has, it gives them freedom. But again, it gives them freedom only if you see it as freedom and not a burden. Because I see a lot of people who are wealthy as well are trapped. Because of the wealth trap that they have, they feel like they're not going to, they're going to lose it all. Right? They're going to feel like they're going to need to protect it.

Yeah.

They need to be on top of what the market is doing and make sure that we don't lose any more money or, you know, they're trying to like keep it, you know, try to make sure the generations are protected. And so some people are designed that way. Again, it all comes down to the person, not so much the situation and the environment. Some people can live a great life with $30,000 a year. Some people can't even do that $30,000 a day, right? It just depends, it's all about perspective. And again, it's not.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

making anything right or wrong, but it's the rules that we are limited by by our mind. And we're trapped by it. We're trapped by sort of these rules that we all have them in terms of, you know, for example, let's take a day to day thing. We're supposed to eat three meals a day, right? Breakfast, lunch and dinner, right? We have to eat so much protein, fat, and so on and so forth. Like, I think what you asked about, you know, are these rules hard fast? Hard fast rules? like, sometimes it's not about hard fast rules, it's working with probability.

Yes. Yep.

Right? Do you have to exercise? Absolutely not. But when you exercise, are you gonna be better for it? Absolutely yes. Will it guarantee you? No, right? It's it's working in probabilities. So I think certain times we just need to think about is, is these a hard fast rule because we made it a rule or is it actually a rule that's a universal law? um I don't know the answer to that, but I think it's, it's healthy to have some understanding going back to what you said, was a healthy or not healthy. think it's, it's healthy to kind of take probability. You know, my probability of me making the NBA or major league any professional sport is probably zero to none. Right. And that's the probability I you know, and I think that I need to use that doesn't mean sure. Are there outliers of like this one person who made it in the Major League Baseball when he was 40 years old? Yeah, probably. I guarantee we can probably find one person who did that. But it's an outlier. And so we got to distinguish between outliers to probability. And the first one I don't remember if you remember

Yeah. uh

this, but there's a guy named Spud Webb, you know, he was like, do you remember Spud Webb, he was like, five foot six or something. And he won like the, the slam dunk champion, the 80s or whatever. And he was in the NBA. Now, does it mean that you're five, six, and you're like, you know, can can go, oh, right, if I'm five, six, and I'm 16 years old, I can maybe make the NBA. Yeah, there's a probability, but the probability is very low. Right? Because he was an outlier. So I just like it's cautionary kind of thinking about making sure that

Yes. Yes. Yep.

Yes, there are certain rules and certain expectations you need to have because of probability. Are we going to be able to find outliers to disprove that? Absolutely. And but it's like, how do you want to hop and you got to use the stories, right? The probability story or the outliers to worry to motivate you to do the thing that you're not meant to do. That's how I kind of use it, right?

Yeah, I get that. get that. was gonna say two things came to mind when you were saying that Lawrence. Number one is just in case someone thinks that we were secretly paid by travel organizations to make sure people uproot their whole lives. That's not that at all. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's only 250,000 euro to buy a golden visa by the way, just in case anybody was interested. So the

You can get a from Greece by...

The thing is like, I'm okay. I'm okay with someone going, know what? I grew up here. I've done things. I've experienced things and I choose this place because it's a blessed place to live. I'm totally a piece of that. You don't have to uproot your whole life and go to the other side of the world. But what, what I guess what's important to me is that you challenge your own reasons for why you do what you do, whatever that is, whatever that looks like. And a case in point, my youngest son Xavier is. And a really good friend of his, um, is, uh, he's retiring and, uh, by retiring, he's, he, you know, the whole fire movement, the financial independent retire early. Well, his friend, Tom, um, he's, he's really got a very simple approach to life. He's not really, uh, aspirate. I say aspirational, he's very passionate about, um, uh, the environment. He's very passionate about regenerative, uh, agriculture. And so he's going to buy a place in Spain and a gray zone vegetables, find a way of generating just what he needs. Ultimately, he has freedom as an expression of what he wants. So 25 years old right now, that's pretty much he's having his retirement party in two weeks in Australia and he's moving to Spain. So you know that that when you hear stories like that, it can't help but not

Wow.

get you to think and go, would I do that? Would I not do that? Is that the right way? Is that the wrong way? What have I done? What is it like? That's my whole example. You have an example and you have here someone who's doing something that's totally different. And I'm like, wow, man, respect for you to get clear on that. It's like, I, I'm really in awe that you are so clear that that's, that's what you want to do. But, so that's the part of the rule. The society will tell you, you've got to

Mm.

Go do the same job, get to 65, if you could get the gold watch and that's then you can retire, but he's totally flipped on its head. says, no, I want to do it differently. I want to live while I, so that to me is, is a societal constructs, uh, coming into collision course with people's will and deciding what exactly what they want.

Yeah. Yeah, and this is like the whole the road not taken right and and you know poem in terms of you know, there's the traditional role that you kind of take the path that everybody else takes because that's what you're meant to do. You know, you go to high school, you go to university, you get a good job and stuff. But that role is kind of really missed the demystified already now because no one follows that anymore. um But it's like, okay, but but we haven't solidified what is the actual path yet. And I think this is where people kind of get lost. And you know, my daughter's in this phase of

Hmm.

heading to university soon and it's like, yeah, I don't know what that's going to look like for her or what's optimal because I can't advise because she's living in an era that I didn't live in, in a sense of when I was her age. Like I'm living in it now, but it's I'm not her age. So it's very difficult to kind of advise someone to know. and then again, it falls back to though, I still feel it falls back to the person, which means that that person each person is so different. I just met up with a mutual friend of ours son, you know, who last time I saw him was probably like 10 years ago. when he was like 14, he's 25 now, you know, and he's a commodities trader, right? And he's doing amazing. And we asked, I met him for breakfast and we asked him like, so when did you know? He's like, knew when he was like, I don't know, six years old or something, right? Something when he was young, right? He's just like, I wanna be that. And some people just know, like they never wait from that goal they had. where someone like me who's 50 is like, still don't know what I want to do when I grow up, right? So it's like, so it's again, it comes down to the person. And like, there's no hard fast rules. And I think we can find enough evidence for whatever route you want to go to. And I think, I don't know if the point of your situation story is, but I'll sort of say mine is like, I feel that what's most important is self reflection, to understand who you really are once in a while to make sure that are you on the right path? And if you're not on the right path, have the courage enough to go change that path. And it doesn't have to be following what everybody else is doing. That's my sort of ending of this.

Yeah, very similar Lawrence. think I've realized my own resistances and biases in my approach and my reluctance to it. It's helpful for me to have a family in particular who challenge each other's assumptions and beliefs. And we always, we want to be quite adaptive in terms of how we, we never want to be so rigid that we don't have nimbleness to move. So to me, mobility adaptability is very important. in multiple areas in life and world, my, I've had to challenge and I think we do one of these, um, from an investing one. really, reckon there's a frame because that was the context of what we spoke about before was my approach to how I saw investing in finance has adapted over time. And you know, like the, you've got people who wear one particular hat and they follow it through and that serves them. Well, that's great. Other people. Uh, mix and match and, for every person that has been incredibly successful and wealthy in one avenue, there's someone in another area. And so which one's absolute right and wrong. And can you change and can you change along the circumstances? And I've noticed that how I was so hard wired to believe a particular way because of the conditioning of the key in my childhood that I had to bust out of that consciously to be open to possibilities. And that that's. You realize it's kind of like a die off reaction, know, like your old habits and old beliefs don't want to give up really easily, but you have to keep stepping into a change and be adaptable enough to be open to change. That to me is more the important thing.

Yeah, and talking about life, which is the same as an investment, which I'm taking this advice from investment, what you just said is that most people invest in their money, more or less also in life, based on historical data that has already passed in a world that has already passed. What's really different that's ahead of us is that we're living in a world that is unpredictable and unseen and unfolded yet. And so therefore what

Yep.

we have to do is to take the historical data, but marry it to the current to project as a futurist to kind of see where the world's going. And that's why everyone, it's really kind of bet, it's bets. There's no certainty just because you bet in the S &P 500 doesn't mean it's going to be successful in the next 50 years. So anyways, I know it's the end of the podcast because I know Jim's got to go to another call, but most importantly, I hope that this has been useful to you and starts to recognize, to help you be more aware of some of the hard fast rules within yourself.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

that we all have that maybe should be taken a closer look at and maybe uh unwinding that and finding new identities around that. So I hope this has been helpful. We'll see you on the next episode. Take care.