Building Belonging: The Art of Community

Welcome to Wabi Sabi. This is the art of imperfection in today's podcast. It is pretty much going to be the art of perfection because we have not discussed a particular topic on hand and we have, it's going to go where it's going to go. Like most places. Uh, most of what most of our podcasts, but I like this, this love kind of shooting from the hip and seeing what's actually happening. So Jim, I, uh, what do you want to start? Where do you want to go? Where do you want to take this podcast?

What is he, you know, sometimes, sometimes Lawrence, you know how you get the prequel to a story. And sometimes that's really fascinating. The backstory sometimes if we recorded our backstory before we get on, it was actually hilarious. So we, we had a great little catch up and Hey, what are you doing? What have you done? Uh, went to the lectures. We had a great little conversation about being an international traveler and all those kinds of things. So perhaps we can wax lyrical about those sometime. Um, but yeah.

Well, you know, we can start there because the thing is, is that you have two passports, right? I have two passports. I'm trying to get my third in a couple of years time. I've always felt every time I get a, like if I want to get a passport, feel like every time I go to the airport with two passports, I feel like a bit of Jason Bourne. I don't know about you, but like, feel like I'm a bit Jason Bourne, right? It's like this, it's like this whole, oh, there you go. Which passport do you fly in and out with? I'm like, which one should I go with? But legally, legally.

Yep, yep. Yeah, I love that. Ah, totally, totally. Totally. Yeah, that's exactly right. I remember, I remember there was, I do, I just live in this illusion of being James Bond or Jason Bourne. Totally. And pretend is just going to listen for goodness sake. You're not, you're an older gentleman. You know, like it's really nice to be just, you know, have that reality check. But I remember this part when we went, when we first moved to, um, to Spain, where I had, sorry, not Spain, to Edinburgh, where I had two passports, had a wad of cash. I put them in the safe and the thing was missing was a gun and I would have been Jason Bourne. So I would have felt like a spy. Right. But, but I totally agree with you. I I'm working on trying to get my third passport as well. And that's what we were talking about just before we got on was, you know, the merits of being a universal citizen and all that comes with that. And gosh, there's a lot of bureaucracy that comes with all this. So yeah, we're and, and, you know, but, we've just sent off to have our

Nice. Oh, nightmare.

sons getting their EU passports as well. Cause it just opens up possibilities. Um, and you're better off having them in advance because that gives you options that you may not otherwise had.

It's challenging because, um, like we were just talking about this because we're going to go to Canada this year, uh, in the summertime and a couple of months time. And you know, we, our visa for Portugal is expired and it's been expired since August. And we went to get a renewed and took us about six months or so to get a renewed. And we're still waiting for the cards. My wife is sort of concerned is like, well, what if what happens when we don't get those cards? Because the problem is, that Canada, last time we went there and he's like, Hey, well, how are you entering Portugal? Oh, we live there. And goes, yeah, but you don't have a visa. like, well, we do have these and but now that those cards are invalid. So it's about depending on which jurisdiction are they going to let you back on that plane? Because you don't actually have a, you know, visa, but Portugal will be fine because they know the rules that you know, they're everybody's delay. It's been delayed for years. But it's sort of skirting those lines when different cultures and different jurisdictions don't know all the rules that's happening in another country, which is valid, I wouldn't expect that they would know. But they could literally stop us from boarding that plane because we don't actually have a valid visa to go enter back into the EU. And that becomes challenging for a lot of people. And this is talking about imperfection. That's exactly what happens. Like you kind of somewhat living on the edge sometimes when you live in certain countries, because I know people who don't who live here, but don't actually have a visa. I'm sorry, they have a legitimate visa, but their card, they haven't gone for three years. They're still waiting. So every time they travel internationally, it's like a risk. They run the risk of not being able to re-enter this country or any through the EU, or they could, I've actually heard people being arrested uh because they're, over welcome their stay and they have to get lawyers involved and you're spending a night in jail. It's terrible. Like I hope that never happens, but it, these situations do happen. So you, you're kind of flirting against that ah when you're dealing with multiple passports and visas and, and, uh, jurisdictions, unfortunately.

Yeah. Yeah. And there is such a backlog in, in Portugal, said in Spain also as well in the UK, they've got some digital um ID process now with visa. that's superseded everything and that's created simplicity, but Portugal hasn't caught up to that. So there's all this backlog. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, like this, this rear, the rear itself for us, because we, turn, I was scheduled to speak in Amsterdam last year.

400,000 people, they're still waiting.

And well last year, the year before I should say, and, um, but Tina didn't go because there was a holdup in the visa, uh, and the card. And it was like, Oh, do you risk it? No, it's better not risking it because if you get deported, she hasn't got a European passport. She had would have potentially had been go back all the way back to Australia. So they're the games you play and really how this all started, I guess people are going, how did they get onto talking about visas and passports? Well,

Mm-hmm, I remember that.

I attended a conference on the weekend in Edinburgh and Lawrence was just chipping me about how close, uh, I, uh uh, this seminar was compared to every other conference we go to. Cause so we're so used to traveling so far for international, uh, conferences or meetups or whatever we do, whenever we present. And I was literally door to door, like 20 minutes. And it felt like cheating. felt like a hack. It felt like there were people who would have tried to get to the airport and They haven't even gotten out their car yet to go. I was so that was really what started this conversation. We're going to talk about perhaps some of the learnings, but yeah, it, uh, it felt really weird to be that close to a venue and be home much quicker than anybody would have actually been at the airport.

Yeah, and that's, so you went to the lectures, the Ember lectures, which is their 20th anniversary from memory. Yeah.

Yep. It was a 20th anniversary celebration of the Edinburgh lectures. it's, it's a largely it's, you know, Ross and Beck who uh run them got tired of traveling to the rest of the world for conferences. And then suddenly went, know what, we're going to bring them home. We're to bring them here and we're to have people come to us. And that's really what they've done. And particularly in the last 10, 12 years, they've become a major fundraiser for the Scotland College of Chiropractic, which was the reason why we came here in the first place. And so we, you, we had international speakers and attendees from all over the world. And that's what the conversation was. You know, there's okay. See you later. Bye. I'll be home in 20 minutes. See you later. Bye. I'll be home in 20 hours because it will cut a few Australians as well too. So it, you know, I've been on the other end of that as you have to Lawrence and yeah, sometimes what you lose on the roundabout, you're going on the swings and I gain on the swings this time.

Hmm. Yeah. Well, the thing is that I know these lectures are, you know, obviously filled with amazing people coming from internationally, you know, from attendees to speakers and Ross is just an amazing man anyways. And what did you, what was some of the takeaways for you? Like, what did you, every time we go to a conference, it's always going to be at least one to a few takeaways, probably more than just one. But, but there's always something one kind of, I find when I go to conferences, there's always this one sort of theme. or one sort of like nugget that sits in my mind for a while. And I know this is fresh, so I'm kind of putting you on the spot. What is that one nugget? If there's more than one, then list those, but what's one great nugget that you took away or maybe got you thinking deeper?

That's a great question because I always go to any conference with an intention and a question, you know, like, because if you go, okay, sure. Yeah, sure. Yep. Yeah. Great. So, so, so what I do is I don't like being a passive um participant in there. I usually go with questions. And if I have specific questions about, it could be, if I'm sitting in a question, you know, like

Hmm. How do you do that? Let's start there. If you don't mind, like, what do you how do you prepare for a conference or seminar? Like, what do you do? What's process?

What's next or what do I need to know? Or I'm having challenges in this era of my life and world. And it doesn't have to be, I mean, this was a chiropractic conference, but there's plenty of other times that I go to ones that are outside of this. And so if I'm sitting in a question that I don't have an answer to, I kind of put it out there. Hey, I'd really like some clarity on, I don't know, my capacity to communicate. I really like some direction in terms of what I could do next. I really would like some, uh,

He

tools or strategies that I could handle this, example. And because I go there, there's the, they call it the reticular activating system. All right. It's, it's, you know, when you don't have something in your awareness, you have all these blind spots, these catomas. don't even realize that the answers are there, but you're not paying attention to them. And so if you ever are driving and someone says to you, and you're thinking about, you might've had this example where you're thinking, Hey, am I buy a red car, red Volvo? Suddenly the moment you put it into your awareness, you realize all these Volvos around and you go, where did all these Volvos come from? They were always there, but they weren't in your awareness. And in the same way, this intention, this intention setting, was introduced to me by my coach many, many years ago, helped me find answers to questions that I was sitting in. They were right in front of my eyes, but I wasn't actually attuned to them. And so consequently, when I go to a conference,

Hmm.

You don't know, you don't know whether the con the answer is going to come from a presenter. Oftentimes it doesn't, it doesn't even have to. Sometimes it's in the conversations that you have with someone at lunch or at breakfast or something that goes and you go, there it is. That's the answer I was looking for in a format that was different to what I expected. So that's, that's how I go about that as a start. I could see your mind. You can see you knitting your eyebrows going, Oh, there's so many places we could go to Lawrence. Let's go. Yeah.

Hmm. Absolutely. Oh, I think we're just, I'll just touch on that and then we can cut to your, your lesson. I think you can also do that on a regular basis as well. So I've sometimes do is when I go to bed, um, I sometimes set my intentions of just closing my eyes and just asking for that help and just letting it go though. Like, so I'm not, so the key differences is not asking and then trying to solve that problem while I'm trying go to bed, but more just like asking the question and then just letting it go. And hopefully sometimes your subconscious will figure it out.

correct.

on the dream land and then you'll come to an insight or an idea or paint a picture of the future that you want to have and just constantly dream about it over, plant that seed over and over again. So that's another way of doing that. Very similar process to you being intentional around going to a conference or seminar, but it's just being intentional on a daily basis. All right, so let's jump to your insight.

Yep. And so that's, yeah, I think, um, I always, uh, I'm always fascinated by people who see things in a perspective that's a little bit different because you can, you can, when you go to similar, when you go to conferences within your subject matter expertise, you can, you can get into the habit of sometimes getting stuck in an echo chamber and you only ever hear the, what you all believe anyway. So it's kind of. preaching to the converted. I, you know, I certainly see validity and value in that, but I also like people who are doing things that are totally different to what I do. I have a different perspective that either challenges my paradigm or challenges my approach and how I've gone about that. And so there are a couple of speakers who ask us to look at, you know, specific trends and a classic one for you would be the one that, you know, that you have. really been even running seminars with about about AI and the integration of that and and not just thinking and and and sort of being subjected by our own biases. It's about going, okay, well, what about this? What are we thinking? How does this progress? What does this move? What are the ramifications of this? So that to me was the biggest takeaway I had because the question that I went to the conference with was, okay, what next? Okay, what next? What am I, what am I sitting in? What's the next, not the next thing, not looking for the next shiny object. But you and I, for example, we've been doing a podcast for the next couple of years. We've got great, great traction in there, but there's a question for me that goes, okay, well what's next? Even in this podcast, what are we going to do next? We've had that previous discussion. So I go with that question. That's like, what do I want to do? What really enthuses me? And you know, What do I want to put my time energy effort to that's really moving the needle for me, but fulfills me. So that were the questions that I went there with. And the answers that I, that were left with was more along the lines of what you and I had spoken about earlier. Like, Hey, I'd love to get, um, uh, uh a community, a strong community within the group that we're working with. And that was really what the takeaway was, was about going, okay, well, set up a community, um, get the community going, start that process. You and I both. do our individual things. Okay. Well, what would happen if they're the kind of questions that I sit with and though the answers that I was getting was this is how you do it. This is how you focus on it. So I was unaware of what specifically was going to cover it, be covered, but because I went there with that question, I found solutions or ideas or things that stimulated me to think about the next stage in a way that I might not have otherwise.

Hmm. That's great. Community is such a big, thing. I do think a lot about that right now as I, you know, being in here and I talk a lot about, you know, actually just wrote a post about that, about community and how important it is actually you have to be intentional about it. And one of the challenges that, you know, as being expats coming into, you know, a new country or a new community is that you can either hope to get involved in some community, like just get absorbed somehow.

Hmm.

But I find that most of the time you really have to just be more engaged and actually be intentional about being part of the community. Like you have to kind of go out there and, and either if you can't join a community, which sometimes is very difficult to do, go join communities because they're not as necessary as welcoming, or they might not need anybody. You have to kind of find a way to really create the community that you want to have. And that's of course even more challenging, but if you don't though, you then fall by the wayside. And I think community is gonna be stronger and stronger as we can tell community has been stronger because of social media. Like that created a community, however, it also uh limits and moved away from in-person communities. And that's already set the stage. And then the thing, the second part, obviously with COVID, I think that, you know, that feeling of just being disconnected, I feel like that created a second, almost like a uh realization of how important communities are.

Yep.

And I think the AI is now going to create another, not a barrier, but another reason why communities, I believe in-person communities, human to human contact connections are going to be such a powerful and important element moving forward for humanity, no matter what field or what industry you're in. And I think we've got to be intentional about it. think we do need to kind of figure a way to create communities for different parts of, you know, people's ah interest. It's not just about business interest. It's always about, it's about interest for your hobbies or for your communities or people like you, people who think like you, the philosophical or the psychological parts of you. I think that you got to find communities in every aspect of your life.

Yeah, totally. And I think attending in-person events is a little bit like whenever you're trying to get someone to eat healthily, eating healthily is harder than eating unhealthily. So many of our dietary choices or availabilities are geared towards the standard American, standard Australian, standard UK diet, standard Portuguese diet, which is kind of like a base level. There's a lot of artificial sugars, all the, the white, whites basically in there, the flour, wheat, sugar, those kinds of things. So to do something different, to aspire to something over and above what everybody else does, takes energy and effort. And attending in-person events is exactly the same with the simplicity of, of online communities, webinars and stuff. They've got their phenomenal values. In fact, I was attending one late yesterday and it's really helpful. But if you only ever focus on that as a means of, of community, then you miss something. And so there's effort now to get to events, live events, but the payoff is you leave there with some energetic exchange that you can't get on a webinar or a zoom call or something like that. So to me, I'm energized by the interaction with other people. Later on this year, I'm getting on a plane with the tenor and we're flying to New Zealand. We're speaking New Zealand. So we're the other end of that. So we've got to fly 30 hours to get somewhere and we're going to go through major inconvenience and travel and potential. But that's just roundabout swings, you know? So, but to me, they're the things that really energize and are important to me because it is community, but there's also tangible community as opposed to just a digital one, which is very two-dimensional.

The online community like webinars during COVID really did make some interesting sort of like digital versions of try to make the community stronger, you know, with breakout rooms on Zooms and everything else, and even obviously podcasts here with videos and everything else and technology is there. But I feel like it's very difficult to replace just the interaction. I mean, the same thing, right? Like, I mean, I have friends around the world.

Yep.

you know, and you know this, right? When you communicate with friends around the world, in your case also too, not just friends, your kids around the world, yeah, you can see them, you can talk to them, you can see them face to face and have a video, but there is such a difference when you actually see them in person and can actually physically touch them and physically hold them in your hand. And you might not be anything you're saying in those moments when you're walking, but there's an energy that you can't explain, that you can't have.

Hmm.

necessarily through video. And I think this is what we're kind of talking about is like, and if you multiply that by 10, 20, 30, 100 people or whatever, that synergy energy is all collective in one place. And when everybody's there collectively for one purpose, singular purpose, that energy kind of, you know, really kind of accentuates. And what I find that, you know, when earlier in my career, when you go to conferences, it was always about the speaker and the content. But as I get older and later in my life, even probably like around after five years of doing that, you start to realize it's never about the speaker. It's always about the people in the room and the connections you make in before, during, you know, the conferences, breakfast, the lunch, the walks, the talks, you know, the whole point of it is actually all the interaction. If you're trying to go to a conference, you know, or seminar, just only extracting the information from the speaker, then I think you missed the point. There's so much more in depth. uh when there is in-person of other participants and attendees that are there, the subtleties, the small clues, the conversations that you are open to can transform and give you the answers you've been looking for rather than trying to always get it from the one person who might be speaking to you at that day.

Yep. And Lawrence, when we talking about, we talked about this just before we got on the call to record actually, where even when there were conferences in our home city, I always used stay on venue. I always appreciated it because even though I had 20 minutes, I stayed on site. You were telling me you've got an uh event coming up very soon and you've got a 30 minute commute, you're staying at the hotel as well. Because I think that it gives you that immersive experience as well. Sure, you can check in with family, but if you've to check in, check out, if you've got to go through uh and travel day one, day two, and keep going back and forth, back and forth, you're kind of like one foot in one camp. And all you are getting is the content and nothing that there's ever wrong with that. you know, like not, not that, you know, I certainly had my limit, but you know, after the, the social function, after the seminars, there was social functions, people up until two, three, socializing and connecting.

Yeah.

in their own way. You can't get that when you are just focusing on just the content or, or there. So that's the magic. That's the glue that bounds and keeps a community together over and above just the content.

This goes back to memories of university, right? So when I went to university, I went to the University of Waterloo, which is an hour away. So I obviously lived on campus and I definitely had a different experience than people from Waterloo or Kitchener because they lived at home. And then after four years of that, I went to Chiropractic College and in Canadian Memorial. But that was in Toronto and that was only 20 minutes drive. So I lived at home and I drove to school and I can guarantee you I had a very different experience than my classmates. Some of very close friends because they all live together They all live in the neighborhood and they kind of hung out together and I missed out on lot of things even though I had to intentionally like my day was almost Basically around 730. I would get up. Sorry get out of the house. I go to class for 8 o'clock We finish at 5 p.m And then I would hang around the school till 9 p.m Like doing the clubs and like not club like clubbing dancing I'm talking like, you know, so I'm not the social clubs other the adjusting clubs and all that whatever clubs are involved in school

Yep. Yep. Yep. Hmm. Hmm.

I'll be there till eight or nine and then come home and study and do all that and do that repeat. Because I try to stay at the school grounds for as long as possible because I knew I didn't have that living experience where a lot of my friends would go home, you know, hang out with their roommates, typically were classmates and they would just have an in-depth relationship and they were definitely a lot closer to each other than, you know, not to say that was an alien outside, you know, the friendship group, but it's just a different vibe. You know, you get to know someone a lot more when you live in with them. And so What you just said is the same thing, right? We just apply that. That's an example of someone who did that for four years, but you apply that for a weekend, it's exactly the same thing. You're just gonna get that in depth, in person, live. It's so much more immersive than it is when it's done online.

Yep. Yeah. And I did the same thing. Like the first few years I was doing a science course. Uh, was, I was at home. It was, it was great. I had a lot of time, but when I studied chiropractic, I lived, it wasn't on campus because it wouldn't have on campus facilities, literally a home less than five or 600 meters away from college. And that whole suburb of Mill Park where we studied was, it was kind of like chiropractic students, pretty much the whole, the whole, uh, uh, so it felt like a, uh, our own little community. And so. You'd have these progressive dinners from one place to another. there was a, it's really fascinating. You know, I always, I always look at this and, and, you know, the whole concept of the old school tie, um, has such a big impact and influence. You know, when you're in your formative years, the people you associate with, um, you know, if you're, if you're politically inclined, you start going to the young Republican or young Democrats, um, club, you start forging. associations and connections there that over time yield to things. And so quite often when you need someone in a position of influence, you have them there because you've got, you've built this personal relationship with them. Now that can't and won't happen purely if you're only on transactional basis in terms of, I read the book, I watch the webinar. You don't get that. And there's something that I really keep stressing to people who are You know, particularly there'll be, there'll be people who professionally need to log on and do some, um, professional ongoing professional hours and for continuing professional development. And you can do them all online. But what happens is there were people who would go out there and meet and greet and meet people. so anytime they needed help or assistance there, they can lean on a community that know them, know, like, and trust them and vice versa. Whereas you don't have that. If you stay in your own silo. and don't really put yourself out there to try and meet other people.

Well, I remember, like, so that's why I run my retreats, right? Like, you know, I run it in Bali every year and it's been great because I feel like it's a community that gets people out of their home. never run, I never, I really try my very best and I don't think I ever done this. I run all my retreats in a place where none of my clients live. I don't think I've ever ran a retreat where I knowing that they could, I would never, oh, I always say never. I really 95 % of the time I try to avoid.

Yep.

a place where one of my clients live that they can just go from home to the retreat. I want them to have to fly or make a commute that they're live with us or stay with us over that time because of this reason. Because there's this magical thing if you just gonna go home, see your family, like you disconnected a little bit. And yeah, it's sacrifice, it takes time, it takes a lot of effort. But that's the point, you need to kind of in order for you to think more about your business and think more about your life, you have to get out of your routine. You know, that's why I'm going to Lisbon for three days, you know, staying in hotel because I got to get out of my routine. If I stay in the same routine, whatever I took away from that day, I come home. I'm all of sudden just brought me right back to exactly how I was already, you know, wired before I left. And so I really don't give myself a chance to change or transform or really absorb. And so those guys, I think it's such an element of adding to that repertoire. Yesterday, it was funny because, um,

Yeah.

you know, I, we, uh, this is guy, again, he created this community. So he, he came in just a little bit after me, actually. He's an entrepreneur from Austin, from the States. And, he wanted to come here and then all of a sudden he wanted to kind of create a community. And so he called, he started WhatsApp group called Lisbon entrepreneur. And I think there's like, I don't know how many people there are, must be 150, maybe 200 people on there now. Then he decided, you know, last month just say, you know what? I've always been interested in food. And so he decided to have a subgroup called the foodies. And so therefore like here's what are all your best recommendations for burgers or what's the best recommendations for Japanese and whatever. And from that, and then we all kind of goes, hey, guys, like, why don't we just go to a, what's the best ramen place? And then, someone took an issue of like, guys, let's go. Who wants to meet a ramen, this ramen place I heard is really good on these dates. And then it was like 12, 13 of us just ended up going to Lisbon, Hanga.

was gonna say, if you told me that you weren't a part of that, why aren't you a fanboy of these kind of things? I would have just gone, this is, this, this, yeah, I was gonna say this has got you written all over this.

Of course, of course. I'm two for two now, two for two. Oh, absolutely. then, and then yesterday, so yesterday was, you know, we talked about he's Asian, of So like, it's funny because he had, he had this thought around dim sum. So he has a name called dim summit. So we have a dim summit, right? So it's like all the world's problems can be solved by having conversations around good people. And so we have 15 people in the middle of a Lisbon Wednesday afternoon. Uh, we went for dim sum and there's, you know,

Okay.

place I've never even heard of and we just sat there and we just interacted. And so here's the kicker for me was, wasn't so much like we did this. It was more about the people I got surrounded by, right? I got surrounded by people that were, there's a guy who is very big on YouTube. He's a YouTube influencer, know, massive in, I think the, oh, in the Google ad space, right? And then, but then I also sat beside another guy who's kind of retired, younger, like even younger than me. I think five years younger than me, just plays paddle like 10 times a week. I'm like, how on earth do you do that? Anyways, he's the guy who actually influenced me to come to Lisbon in the first place. Then I sat beside a guy who's just starting his career, like in a sense, because he worked for a startup, kind of failed, and he's just building a program, trying to figure out how he can stay in Lisbon. He's got to create a program to earn enough income to make sure they show he's got passive income. And across from me was a Titan in terms of VC. He's like one of those VC guys. He looks fairly familiar. I'm trying to figure him out. I'm trying to remember where from, he supposedly he's a big heavyweight when it comes to um AI and tech VCs. And he's been living here for three years. So you meet these random people. But what I'm saying is that the conversation is not like the conversations I will be having with say my chiropractic friends or another friend. And I'm not saying again, it's not good or bad. It's just that when you start to hang around with different types of people, the conversation leans itself to what you might be passionate about, what you like that you never thought you could have find other people. And all of a sudden now, you hear insights that you may not have ever heard of, right? We have a crypto group, for example, that I kind of go into once in a while. And sure, is an echo chamber of all the people talking about crypto? Yes, right? um But you hear that side of the story and you go to these type of things, you hear about the VC side of things or you know, the... YouTube type of things and you go to a chiropractor, you hear all these things. And now you're more like you, you have different interests and which we all do, right? We all have different interests. But if you can find subgroups within your own life, all of a sudden now certain things start to happen because those people are really into crypto and they will tell you things that no one else would probably be able to tell you because they're the ones who are heavily in it. If you're in this venture capitalist world, they're to tell you things that you never even got ever exposed to unless you do that. And the purest example is like if you want to be a movie star or you know be on television where do you go you go to Hollywood because that's where everybody's that's where everybody's at I'm not saying it's gonna be easy but that's where the conversation that's where the happening the script writers were at least was right I'm not sure if it still is but if you want to go in the tech world you'll be silly not to go to Silicon Valley right because that's where the action is that's where opportunities are And the same, so for us, we're not talking about, you're listening to this and want to find certain jobs, yeah, you will need to go to those places. But we're talking about building communities, about building communities. What can you do on a daily basis that you can actually action to create your own community if you can't find one? Because there's no reason why we can't do it. And those are just some examples. The foodie thing, the WhatsApp channels, we have a power group that we talk a lot about that I've created. Not that didn't create, but I've sort of built it to the 650 people.

Mm.

kind of group because of engaging the community and trying to build that together.

And there's so much value in that. If you're, if you're a person who, uh, is a great connector and if you can, uh, have a, have a, I guess, a connection to a whole lot of subgroups, when someone comes into your, your local area, you can, you had so much value, you Hey, what kind of things you like doing? You know, um, look, I can connect you to this person or that person or this, you suddenly become very influential. You can become a trusted advisor in so many ways. And. I'm glad you mentioned that because that was one of the things that I did as well. I was talking to people and they're looking for people to employ. so I'd say, okay, what are you looking for in an employee? You know, and that way I've got that top of mind so that the next time I have a conversation with someone, it's like, Hey, you might want to have a chat to this person or that person. And suddenly you position yourself as a person who's a very good connector and a person of influence because it's not about Okay, do I have all the answers, but do I know where to go for those kinds of answers is just as resourceful.

Yeah, and I want to make sure the listeners or viewers are listening to this carefully, not to say like, hey, oh, that's easy because that's who you are. And I'll tell you, I don't know about you, but I was never naturally this type of person. I was, I'm very introverted typically, and I'm not, wasn't a connector. Um, I didn't know a lot of people. This is something I had to learn throughout my life to recognize the value in it of just being a good listener to then learn to connect with other people without anything to gain for myself.

Hmm.

Like I wasn't necessarily like, if I connected you Jim to someone else, it's not, it's not about, you know, me getting a reward for or getting a piece of that percentage or whatever. It's just me helping a friend out and just letting you to kind of get along and figuring that out. think that, so it's more a habit or a skill that needs to be learned. I heard something brilliant Jim the other day. Um, it was about, you know, when you go into a new community, when one of the first thing, not the only thing, one of the first thing you should do. is actually find a local cafe or a restaurant that you frequent a lot. And you know, we all have that, right? We all have these frequent restaurants and they really get to know you. And whenever someone comes into town, if everything's booked out, you know where you can go to where they can always find you a spot because they know you by name or they at least know you by reputation. And I never thought about that and I realized I do have one of those cute few spots that we do frequent quite a bit, a couple of restaurants.

you That's a point.

And every time I pass by, not that I even eat there, because it's on a main street, every time I pass by, there's always this one, like a couple of the waitress or the waiters, they know me because I've been there at least five or six times. They kind of go, hey, know, bon dia, like to the bun. And just like start talking and you know, like, and we, recognize me. And that's really great because it makes me feel amazing that I'm recognized. But it's also like, I almost go out of my way to say hello to them. And now we built this relationship and that becomes like your local joint. You become the norm of cheers for those people old enough to remember that show, right? Yeah, norm! Yeah, that's right. Where everybody knows your name.

Yeah. That's what was going through my mind. Oh, I was going to go, no. Yeah. I kept on thinking that as you were going through for anybody who's like, yeah. Anybody who's like under 40 has no idea what we just said here, but that's okay.

Yeah. But I think that's just a really good tip to have because when you have frequency in certain places, especially if you know the owner or the frequent restaurants or the waitress, I think that's a good skill because all of sudden it makes you are like the insider of that thing. And I know you could say to me all the time, like I'm the Portugal or Lisbon, whatever you call me. ah

What do call it? The Ministry of Introductions by the Portugal government. That's true.

Ministry of this, yeah, yeah. And it's funny, like you said that, you gave that title to me like probably when I was like six months in, but like three years on now, it is funny. Like I do have a list and every time like a Tiger member or a prospect comes through or any member they come through and they always like, hey, I'm thinking of coming to Portugal. I'm like, oh, okay, like, you know, tell me how long you're here for, what do you wanna do? And I always give them a list. And it's a list of all my favorite restaurants and places and things to do.

You Yep. Yeah.

and I try to update it every once in a while. And usually every response is like, oh my God, wow, thank you so much for that guy. And it's not that they ever go through that list totally, but because there's way too much stuff, but it's a helpful starting point, right? And I learned that from a friend who lived in Japan and he gave me this Google Docs he would update. And it was like all of these lists of places in Japan. You're like, wow, like how awesome is this? Even though I'd never been back to Japan since he gave me that list like eight years ago.

Yeah.

But it's it's there. And it's like, I know that if someone's going to like, if I'm going to Japan, I'm going to go through that list, I'm going to go check off and see what's still available in that time. And that's just a helpful thing to do that. But again, it's building community, right? Because our you and I have friends all over the world. And it's having those connections. I mean, I just had a friend of mine, I think, last week, I was it? I don't know, was last week or two weeks? That's right. Yeah, that's right.

It was this week because we're recording on a different day today than we normally do because you had a friend in town, Minister of Introductions in Portugal. My point is made.

and Yeah, I couldn't record because my friend actually flew in, flew into Porto. I didn't know that she was, she did tell me she was kinda coming in, but she never confirmed any dates because she wasn't passing through Lisbon. She was going to Porto and she was going to the Argarve, missing Lisbon, right? Which, whatever, I told her, anyway, the point was, she calls me, she literally, on Messenger, she makes a phone call. I'm like, oh, that's unusual, that's not usually, how people communicate. I'm lucky I was available and I took the call and I could just tell. Like something wasn't right. I go, are you okay? Are you in Portugal? And she goes, yeah. And she goes, yeah, I'm Portugal, but here's what happened. And it was an experience that I've kind of gone through myself. I don't want to share, it's something with minds. And it was a whole bunch of stuff that happened and it's so happening in Portugal and she was kind of freaking out a little bit. And so what I was able to do was kind of listen. let me help you let me make some phone calls. Not that I know anything. Not that I speak more Portuguese than she did or anything. But I just felt like because I know the country a bit better, I can make these phone calls and I'm like, made some search and ended up being like she adapted to kind of drive drove down to Lisbon to see someone just so it was a lot easier because it was on a Sunday, everything was closed, all the specials closed. And the whole point with that was just saying recognizing like if you didn't go out of your own community on your own little bubble, you're not going to be able to have this. And I think when

Yeah.

you are in this community and you live in this community, people trust you. Like if I'm going to Scotland, you know, first thing I'm gonna do is gonna call Jim, even though I'm gonna, if I go to Barcelona, I'm gonna call Jim even though he doesn't live there, right? I'm gonna go Jim, hey man, give me your top spots. I'm going to New York a little bit later this year in a couple months time. I'm gonna tee up every person I know who's from New York or lived in New York in the last five years and go, give me your top spots, right? Tell me where to go, what to avoid. It's the same thing, people still hit me up for Australia, for Perth even.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

I haven't lived in Perth in over 10 years, but you kind of figure it out. And so that's why I think being in the community, knowing your community and living part of that community is such an important element because it helps you ingrain. So lesson I want to just summarize from what I'm talking. It's not summarizes the podcast, it's just summarizes it. It's being in your community is important, forming a community is important, but also what it does is it helps other people integrate into that community as well.

totally and circling back to what you said by nature. No, that's, that's not what, I started either, you know, but for me was like, do my own thing. And you know that, that old African proverb about if you want to go somewhere fast, go by yourself. If you want to go far, go with other people. I had to learn that because I was very much a lone wolf and I realized, okay, this is great, but there are limitations to the way you go about things by yourself. So you need to engage community, you need to uh collaborate, you need to work well with others, all those kinds of things. And it's a multiplier effect. so now that's, it's, it's kind of like the, the, the human Google effect where I now will go, who do I know? I can certainly research stuff for myself. Who do I know who has experience here? Who could guide me? Who do I know that may help me with this challenge? Who I know may give me a perspective. that I don't have that might be on my blind spot. So I really lean on that a lot. And even now, you know, like even today, earlier on, I'm contemplating, you know, some plans for the next year. And so I've reached out to people who live in different countries and go, look, I'm thinking about doing this and this. What, what do you think I should be aware of that condenses the trial and error component a lot, but what has earned me the right of doing that is I've done the same thing for them.

Hmm.

I've, I've actually went out and someone has asked, I haven't given them a little token. Yes, no answer. I'm like, listen, let me show you how this can help. is what I found. Try these things. I don't know exactly, but maybe this will help come back to me if you don't. And that consequently is what builds that relationship. And I think that that's what I, when we, when I reflect on that, that's what I get out of interactions with people. When we go to these conferences, it's building the relationship. There's people now I met. in the first three years of moving here, which would be just like you didn't know hardly anybody here. In fact, nobody, you know, but now there's a network of people that I know that I could reach out to, you know, you, the other than people that I knew lived in Europe, but you're the only other person that I knew was going anywhere similar to what we'd done. And so there were plenty of times where you and I just go, Hey man, I don't know. I haven't worked this out. What do you reckon? And you, and we'd sort of troubleshoot it, shot it, and we worked through, but Over time I've found a stronger, stronger network. So now I've got my go-to people. Interestingly, there's more of them in the Europe and the UK now that necessarily in Australia and the UK in the U S so I've become very dependent on the local area. And so I've, I've developed that that's been intentional, but I've gone to conferences. worked out. Um, I think I, in the three it's approaching three years now, 1st of July is when we got to left Australia.

Yeah.

In three years, I've been to 25 conferences in three years. Now that yeah. And everyone, and, know, that's 25 and that's, including your, um, get together, the retreat that's 26. So I've heavily invested in that and, that's paying dividends because it's helping build relational capital.

Wow. Amazing.

And it's building the, and there's people that I've seen one, two, five, 10 times and suddenly go, okay, I now have familiarity with you. I know what you're about. If I ever need guidance or support, or if I want to ask a question, I go to you because I understand you now. That's what I found.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It reminds me of a book, one of the very first books I've read, which is The Tipping Point by Malcolm Galabba when it was his first book. And one of the main points that he takes away was he identifies people. You know, there's always that saying about the, you you're only about six degrees of separation from anyone in the world. And what they did with the studies is that it's true, but it's not because you, six people are deep, you would know someone. What they found out was that within those six degrees of separation,

Yeah. Yep. Hmm.

between all those people, say between me and whatever, so say Barack Obama, say there's six degrees of separation, that what they found is that between those six people, there's gonna be one of them is gonna be a super connector, which is really interesting, right? So the connector is someone who kinda knows everyone, and as always, and you know who they are um if you actually go through your database in your life, and you don't have to be super close with them, it just means that you know a connector.

Mmm.

A connector is someone who knows everyone. just, they, he or she just happens to know everyone and they can, you just contact that one person and they will get you close enough to the person that you need to kind of get to. And I always find that fascinating. And I don't know if it's, I don't know. I think it's unconscious, but maybe it was somewhat conscious that I kind of spent, I realized it was maybe about 15, 10, 15 years ago. I reflected about like, upon like some of my friends and who I call friends and who my circles are, a lot of them were connectors. And what happened, so again, I'm not sure it was unconscious or conscious that I actually created friendships around knowingly that I wanted to be friends with connectors because those connectors could connect me to anyone. Not that I ever needed, you a lot of times I don't necessarily need those people, but they can connect me and they need to know people. And I think that's a... One of the tips to have is to recognize it's like in any community who are the connectors that you could get connected to again, you don't have to be their best friend, but as long as you're connected and they know you well enough that if you do need a favor or if you do need to kind of find some connections or need some connection to that they might be able to find that person and I've tried to now try, you know, unconsciously again, or consciously trying to kind of be that connector here to, or at least in my world, to be finding like, how can I be connected to various circles, and then helping people to connect? And I think that's a uh good, healthy way to look at it, to really kind of form that community if you want, is to actually have connectors in your community, because they can lead you to a lot of different places. And super helpful to have, and when I learned that concept probably 25 years ago,

Yep.

It's such an important power, powerful thing to have, to find connectors. And you know, you can find out who they are, they're in your circles and it guarantee you know, at least one and then try to observe them, how they behave, how they look. It doesn't mean you have to be them, but it is helpful to kind of know that you can find other connectors in other circles so that you can actually get access to most people in the

Yeah. And there's familiarity. Like when people see you regularly, regularly, like them, you may not have conversations, but there's like, you know, them by proximity and association. Uh, you know, I had a really interesting situation, uh, in two of the conferences that I was sent to, uh, in the last couple of years, but even just this one on the weekend, one of the speakers, she spoke, uh, and before she spoke, I went over and, um, you know, I wish her the best. And she goes, I remember you coming to, uh, the college, um, to speak, would have been 10 years ago and you spoke and she recited what I had spoken about and I'd forgotten about it. and, but she goes, it was really memorable. Do you remember what you said that time? went, actually no. Um, and she reminded me, went, okay, I've got a rough idea of what you said, but you know, it's along this, you know, for anybody who's not aware, uh, one of the, the developer of chiropractic BJ Palmer was to say, you never know how far reaching what you can and do will influence someone, you know, and, and it's true. It's true. You helping someone out is paying it forward. Sometimes you helping someone saying that kind word on their encouragement or connecting with somebody else or giving them a direction doesn't go unnoticed. And, and it really, it floored me, you know, when I just went, here you are now you're, you're one of the keynote speakers here. And, you know, thanks for the gift of letting me know that that was something you remembered that I've long forgotten, you know, uh so.

I'm laughing because that's exactly what happened to me last year when I attended one of the conferences and one of the speakers that were speaking. And I'm like, I know that person's name. I'm like, I know that person somehow. I don't know. Anyways, he did a pretty good talk. He did a great talk. afterwards I'm like, hey, that was great. He goes, oh, thank you so much. He goes, um you know, I got inspired by you. I'm like, what are you talking about? He goes, oh, do you remember? This was in the UK. And he goes, do you, he goes, well, I remember coming to WCCS in Perth, Australia.

Yeah, yeah

where you were the speaker at that conference and it was just the way you spoke that inspired me to want to be a speaker. I'm like, God, that was like 15 years ago, right? I was like, what are you talking about? So I hear, I'm laughing because we're that old, Jim. We are that old, right? The next generation of speakers are on stage keynote, keynoting ah and getting inspired by what we used to talk about.

No. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, true, true, true. Yeah. And I, I know it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. As we were previously, it's the old standing on the shoulder of giants. And there's so many people that I attribute so much of my learning to that I'm grateful. And I used to, I would go up to them and thank them. You know, there were even last year, there was a guy that came to our college 20 something years ago. And it was the first opportunity I had to go back and go, I remember we came in on a Sunday to listen to you because you weren't banned from the school. And he gave me this look like, thanks. I'm glad you remember that conversation. I have no idea what you're talking about. So I realized then it's, it's just, it's just paying it forward and down the line. And, and, um, you know, that you have done your part when you can't remember what you said, but it actually had an impact on somebody. And, uh, even if,

That's right. I did, yeah.

I was going to say, I had one scenario in Spain last year where, or last year before where I went and someone said, Hey, I remember you came to New Zealand and you spoke and, uh and it was so memorable, but I don't remember much about the presentation. just remember that you wearing this, um, this gray suit and you just rocking this gray suit. went, wow, that's never had that one before. When someone says, I don't know what you said. don't know, but I remember you coming with your bald head and a gray suit and, um I don't know. just, it just anchors it to a thought that I had with Maya Angelou who says, quite often people will forget how, what you said, but they won't forget how you made them feel. And so obviously there was something.

Hmm. had this. Yeah.

What were gonna say? No, no, that was it.

Sorry, go ahead. No, just had the same, I had the same sort of feeling. So I had the same opportunity with Jerry Klum. I don't know if you know Jerry Klum. Right, oh, interesting. So he was my, right, well, Jerry Klum was my very first chiropractic speaker I ever listened to before I even applied for Chiropractic College. And I was fortunate enough to speak

Yes, well Jerry was one of them. Jerry was one of them and Guy Rakeman was the other one. Hmm.

at New Zealand Chiropractor College for their, the one that you're gonna be speaking at this September. I did this maybe about like maybe eight years ago and he was there and he was also speaking. And so he was in the crowd and we were both on stage in a way and it was such a proud moment for me. And I remember the first thing I said, I was like, I'm just lucky to be here but it's because of this gentleman here. And it was just for the payback forward on stage to him. And yeah, I mean, this is...

Yep, yeah, yeah, I see him. Yeah. Yeah, wow.

I think we forget that that's what we do it for, right? And I think people forget that it's like, no, it's just not, we didn't get here on our own. And this is going back to the community thing, right? None of us got here by ourselves. And a friend of mine, Jason Gaynard, who's really big on communities, like we are, no one has ever self-made, right? And he talks about this term of a community made, and he's made from the community. And I really truly believe in that, that it's the community that you form yourself in. And oftentimes I think, I have spent my life kind of feeling like I'm an outsider of most communities and groups. And that has really forced me to recognize that it took me a long time to figure this out, that I was waiting, that was because I was waiting for an invitation. I was waiting for people to invite me in. And it wasn't really until I sort of rational, was able to sit back and reflect and like, why am I waiting?

Hmm.

I think it's time for me to actually create my own community. And that was like the, that realization took me a long time to figure out, but it's something that as I reflect back on my life, like that was a very pivotal sort of understanding or paradigm shift within my own head to stop waiting for people to invite me to actually create the own community. Cause most of the time the communities I was looking from outside in is feeling like they were in the in crowd and I was always in the out crowd. But realizing even if I got in, I don't know if I would actually like it. And so really the reality is not about trying to fall into place, but to really start your own and uh recognizing that. it uh took me a while to figure that out, but implementing that has definitely changed the trajectory of my life. But it's that pain of that in my younger years to kind of create the... uh the thought process and also the desire to kind of pursue something different because of that pain in the earlier days. So communities for me is huge.

Actually, I 100 % can relate to that. That's probably my process as well too. think coming to terms with who I am and not feeling like, yeah, I was probably an outsider as well too, if I think about it. I could get into a group, I just, there was an uncomfortableness about it. It was like a case of... Who do I need to be to be in this group? And in order to be in this group, is that really me? So that was the journey. So I could get into a group, but I didn't appreciate the chameleon-esque approach. just, I just didn't feel right. So I just went, if I've got to do this in order to get that, I don't want it. I don't want to be in there. So I think that's what kind of led me to having the same realization as you did about creating my own community and just being true to self and. And being patient and working on things on the metrics that mattered to me specifically, opposed to building an artificial. So I value authenticity and genuine connection as opposed to volume. So that to me is probably the realization that I've gotten to as well too. I'd rather do something that's that. And I think that was the question that I went to the, um, the Edmmer lectures with was about, okay, what's next. And for me, it's got to have meaning in it and it's got to be. Purposeful and just doing it for doing it sake is not enough. There's so many opportunities I could have. If it was just about money, I could do it. could follow 55 different directions, but they don't excite me in the same level. So for me, maybe it's the chapter and season of life that I am where that's what I'm looking for is meaning and connection and community, those kinds of things. so they're the way that stood out to me more as opposed to just here's a pathway from to get from A to B. That's, that's, that's great, but it's not enough for me personally at this stage.

Yeah. It's such a powerful point. And I think if you're listening and I think I found that like when you're in your twenties, that's harder to do what we just talked about. Cause it's really hard to be able to, to just accept and not want to be fit in. Um, I think it gets easier in your thirties, but I feel like it almost takes up to like your late thirties to forties to usually get to that stage. However, having said that though, it doesn't mean it's going that I would, that was at least that was my path. I'm not sure how, what your path was.

Mmm. Hmm.

doesn't mean it has to be the case. And I think if I had to give advice to like my younger self or my kids, is that I tried to kind of instill to them as to just be yourself and get so I want them to get there. They're quicker. I want them to get there in their 20s if they can or early 30s. Because once you once you get there, then there's so much more opportunities because you waste so much time and energy sometimes trying to fit in or try to like, you know, compromise your values and to kind of or compromise certain things or

Hmm.

to fit into a certain group, realizing that you have, you found your own group, you can actually create your own group or find your own group, um you know, without having to try that hard. And I think the sooner people get to that, um the better they will be. So, and that's how I would like to end it. How do you want to finish this off?

Yeah. Nice. uh I'm complete. I think it's good. It's been a great journey that we've started with that started from a point. I think, you know, we, while we didn't come to here with a specific topic, we had a very loose kind of an idea of what we're talking about. It's the, it's that ability of immersing ourselves in learning over a period of time. That means that when you're put on the spot, you can, you can evolve. So we're not, I don't think either of us are. trying to wing it per se, what we're basically doing is allowing a conversation to evolve naturally and to be able to see that, know, sometimes life's not totally perfectly scripted. It doesn't always have to be linear. could go in all these permutations and combinations and deviations. And there's a perfection in that, which is imperfect, which is always the theme of what we're doing, but it's about, it's the willingness to step up. at bat and take a swing and have a shot and see how goes. And it may not be exactly what you want at that time, but it's like, okay, what did I learn? How did I get better? What can I use this for for next time? And to me, I think that's, this is the, laboratory that we're creating here that hopefully we're giving people permission to just be daring, to be bold, to try things and just get out of themselves and connect and see what happens. Yep. Yep.

Yeah. And allow it to evolve and take time rather than thinking that you have to hit a home run in the very first one. You know, it takes years, I think sometimes too, and many iterations before you get it right. And I think that that's your willingness to have the patience for it. And that's why I think it takes, it has to be within your passion in a sense, or at least the desire to want to create it so that you're willing to kind of continue making different iterations for it. So this, we appreciate this community, the Wabi Sabi community for you guys listening on a regular basis. And I hope that you guys can.

Yep.

maybe share this particular podcast or other episodes with other people who may feel, you may feel that we benefit from what the conversations we have so we can actually grow this Wabi Sabi community. We'll talk to you soon. See you in the next episode.