Adapt, Reflect, Grow

Welcome to Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection. And it's been a while since we last time we recorded and you might not know that because obviously episodes are getting released on a weekly basis. But however, Jim and I haven't seen each other for a couple of weeks because I went away and all of a sudden Jim was away. So therefore we're finally back. It's great to see you, Jim, but you're looking a little bit pale over there, man. What's going on?

Yeah, I I just, just before we got on, said, gosh, Lawrence, it's a few weeks since I've seen you. You can't half tell I've moved to Scotland and I get out there whenever there's sun on, but no, there's shades of darkness are going and I'm looking more and more like a local by the day. So yeah, that's, that's what's going on. been in, I've been in Ireland for a couple of weeks. So I thought, yeah, there's not much sun.

Very nice.

Any more sun that there is in Scotland. Uh, so I thought it'd be a really good opportunity for us to talk about something that was front of mind, because I, the reason why went to Scotland is I maintained my registration as a chiropractor. I, I, in order to maintain my recency of practice, I've got to go in and do some work. And a friend of mine contacted me from Ireland and said, listen, I've got to get paid back to Australia. Can you please come in and help me out? So it was kind of like this. win-win scenario. I do it in January and it's a good time to do that because a lot of the Australian markets, we do a lot of work. Some of them are on holidays still. So it was a really good opportunity. And it got me thinking about, you know, those moments where we reflect and step back and, and, and consider the decisions we've made that's got us here. But then we go back to a former version of ourselves or we catch up with someone in our past and it gets us thinking about that old version of ourselves. So I thought it'd be really.

Hmm.

interesting avenue and portal through which we can have a look at today.

Yeah, so how did it feel for you going back into practice? I mean, it's probably been a while since you back into practice in terms of day to day, you know, lifestyle. I mean, I get asked that question a lot, you know, oftentimes I haven't been in practice in over 10 years and most people still ask me that question, how do you miss it? And so I love to hear your feedback. You know, you haven't been in practice for a long time going back there. How did it feel and what were some of the emotions that kind of came up for you?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's very interesting. Like I, I went across to Ireland one other time, about six or seven months ago, but it wasn't like in the same context. Um, it felt exciting in one avenue. you know, the, I left practice because I wanted to do other things and there was a calling to do other things and as well as the move. that was a real catalyst for me. And the part that I got to do as a locum was the part that I enjoyed the most.

Ahem.

And that was engaging with people, all the other stuff I didn't particularly enjoy, you know, um, but I really loved the interacting, the communicating with people. So it, took me back to a moment. Um, it got me, I was exhausted because I was, I was managing not only that, but everything else operationally. a lot of, uh, some people were very flexible with me while I worked around their current coaching schedules and the likes of that, that worked really well, but. It took me back to a time where I went, hey, this was really good. Up until the point I went, jam man, this is really tough. And it was tiring and it was exhausting, even though I got to do the only part of the thing that I really enjoyed the most. So that's the start of our call today. So yeah so root root root yeah

Sorry, I just realized I have myself on mute. So maybe that's why I'm surprised it took you that long to actually say so. So anyways, I've been talking for a while. My question, was actually, yeah, I was having a monologue to myself, but anyways, well, hopefully we'll cut that out. My question to you is like, what part do you enjoy? Sorry, what part didn't you enjoy in practice? Like, you I haven't been in practice in a long time and I know parts of me that I don't want to ever go back to. And imagine. you said there's certain parts that you enjoy and absolutely for practice I do miss certain parts of it. But those are easy to talk about but I love to kind of talk about because this is the art of perfection. like what are the parts that you don't enjoy? What were some of the things that you hated the most? And I'd love to kind of hear more about that and what you don't ever want to go back to.

Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, I think the, the parts that I didn't enjoy were the compliance, the, the software upgrades, the, the up, up, you know, maintaining elements of keeping the door open, you know, that, that kind of part. I didn't really enjoy that part, not so much the managing of people. I think I did that. Okay. But the documentation and administration side of things, I I'm not, I'm more of a visionary person, less of a manager.

Hmm.

And so I really enjoy, enjoyed, you know, the ebook, the, the E-Myth book with Michael Gerber, talks about the visionary, the, the manager and the technician. Well, the technical side of it, I didn't, I enjoyed, right? The visionary side I enjoyed, but it was the middle in there that I didn't enjoy. The, um, the team meetings or the documentation, I just didn't enjoy that at all. So.

Hmm. Interesting.

Uh, it was a necessary process of doing that and things about developing systems and processes. They're very important, but that's not that, that doesn't juice me particularly. So for me, like, so the element of local work is really exciting. Cause I get in there and do the technical side of it. I get that fixed and I go, great. That's that part of me that I just wanted to stay connected to. love the communication side of it. There's something exciting about, and I think it's no wonder then that we're doing what we're doing. And also. Coaching is I love inspiring people to possibilities. love opening up a portal in someone's mind and go, you considered this? So to be able to do that was super exciting and super fun.

I guess it's almost like being a grandparent. Now, none of us are grandparents yet, but, uh, but I mean, it's sort of like, get all the benefits of all the hugs and cuddles and the great things with, with little kids, but you don't actually have to deal with all the, um, dealing with all the dirty nappies and sleepless nights and all the other stuff that comes along with the, being a parent, all the other Yeah. Um, so yeah, I, one of the key elements, I guess, when it comes to cover the practice is that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's it. Here you go. He's back. They are back.

You know, we do coach a lot of practitioners, you know, that are listening to this particular show too as well. I mean, that's the thing with any profession though, like I think, you know, this is why I think when we're saying that you need to have passion for what you do and you need to kind of, passion isn't about what you love, but it's also what you're willing to suffer through. you know, if you're a practitioner, you do have to suffer through some of those things. The legalities, you have to go through, you know, the government laws that you actually have to fill in certain things. You got to deal with all these. paperwork that you don't necessarily want to, if you didn't, if you didn't have to do it, you wouldn't have done it. You know, the only reason why you write all these notes is because of liabilities and you know, lawsuits and all those things you just got to do. Um, managing staff is comes along with the territory. And I think that's what that's with every profession and every job and every realm. Like there's parts of coaching that I. and absolutely don't enjoy. And there's parts of coaching that I enjoy, but it's like, I'm willing to suffer through those to have the enjoyment of others. And I think this is an important balance that we need to see in our lives. The reason why I wanted to bring this up is not so much to say that, you know, we have our lives figured out and we all love exactly every 100%, everything that we do. I don't, under certain elements, I'm like, just wish I could just not deal with it. But the problem is that... within our particular careers at the moment, we just have to deal with it. These are the things that you are stepping into and you're gonna have to regulate. Until I no longer wanna deal with it, then I change. And then I'm gonna have to accept new rules or new things that I'm have to deal with and contend with. No different than when we moved, right? It's like, I love being here in Portugal, love the weather and everything else. However, there are certain things that I just don't love. That it took me a year to get my driver's license, I wish I finally got. Actually, I just realized today like it rained so hard today in Portugal that I my car is stuck at the paddle court because I just Couldn't risk driving it through a river. It's of water because it's like is that actually gonna get out on I'm like, you know what? I'll just let them drain that water first before I kind of go collect my cars like there's certain things around that right and I think that's everything has its pros and cons and I think we need to evaluate life based on that to accept

Oh no.

that it's not always about trying to get as many pros as possible, but it's recognizing how you can, you know, are you willing to deal with the cons?

Yeah. And interestingly that, you know, whenever we talk to people who are disillusioned with elements of their career, they, have an expectation that every moment of every day is going to be fun. You know, where the whole saying of you do what you love and you'll never feel like you're working a day in your life. Well, yeah. However, there is going to be stuff that even the most exciting role that you can imagine, there's parts of that role that people don't like doing, but they do it because it's a necessary process. And I just had, I just parachuted into an opportunity to do the, part of the part that I enjoyed the most while I was practicing for nearly 30 years. And that to me was awesome. Do I want to do that all the time? No, I don't. think I've, I've moved beyond that point now.

No, see, right, like you could do locums, right? And you go, a locum would be fantastic, because you get to do all the things that you love to do. Yeah, but the consequence of that is that you're have to be moving every single couple of weeks or so. You're gonna have to deal with like travel, living out of a suitcase, right? You're not gonna have the long-term relationships that you would have with your patients, because every two weeks or so, you're picking up and going somewhere else, and you don't actually have that.

100%.

Connection that you would actually have you have your own bar. So they again like everything has its consequence You know what you're saying here to like leads me to one of the biggest gripes that I have and I hate to put this to a generational thing but like I'm hearing more and more of this from younger chiropractors it's like, know, the hearing from a lot of my my my coaching clients who have Associates, you know who says like, know what like I just want life work-life balance and like I get it to a point, but then I start to realize I'm like, what are you talking about? Like you're 23 years old or 25 years old. Like what work life balance do you have in your mind that you're supposed to have? I don't know what that is, but I think it's when, if you dig deeper, I think they have this false expectation of work life balance. I'm not saying you shouldn't have, you know, some sort of work. I don't know. hate calling it balance, but like work life sort of some symmetry.

Harmony. Harmony is the word. Yeah.

Harmony, okay, great, right. Harmony, like I call it homeostasis because there's always this fluctuation, that movement, but what do mean by balance? Like what is your expectation? Are you supposed to like, oh, I get to work, earn great money, and then balance with like lifestyle to get to enjoy and travel? Like are you talking about that kind of balance? Because I'm not sure that exists unless you have a ton of money, and if you don't come from money, then you're have to work for that money to get that other part. And so that really frustrates me because like all these chiropractors are really struggling to find employees, I guess, or associates that are really striving or who have the, not the courage, but the drive internally to really give it a go and have a great career and then create the life that they actually get to enjoy later on in life, not necessarily in their 20s.

Yeah, it's, we start, we run the risk of sounding like cranky old man when we do that Lawrence, but I think it's a, yeah, true. Get it, get it. Okay. So we run the risk of it and we've just walked straight into it. I look, I agree to a point because these days, honestly, you know, Groucho Marx said 90 % of the success in life is just simply turning up. to, to a degree, I believe that because you got to

But we are cranky old men, I realize that, I'm accepting it.

Get up, dress up, show up, be ready to go and do what is required. And make no mistake in the two weeks that I was in Ireland, I did exactly that. I did that. So all my coaching calls, I got up super early or stayed up late or worked on the weekend to make sure that I kept continuing to go. That was a commitment I had with the people and trust me for what I do. Plus also there's other businesses. So. I did that around that. I only did it in January because I knew that that's normally a lull time in terms of one division of one of my companies in Australia. So I had a window. I was fully aware of that. I didn't, you know, I had people who I knew who, who said to me, are you heading off to Ireland? Or even the people I stayed in this wonderful Airbnb. And this person said to me, Hey, have you had a chance to look around? And I go, look, I spent a couple of hours on a Sunday. Touring around sorry half a day on Sunday, but that was it the rest of the time I was like working I was in work mode and I was clear that I wasn't going on holiday I was actually going to work but in a different location And if I brought my whole okay, I'm going to do I'm gonna holiday while I'm there It just wouldn't have worked so I I think I had to be really really clear on why am I going there and Because that meant time away from from home time away from all the routines And it also meant like first day in jiu-jitsu back after two weeks. I got to tell you that sucks. That's just, just in itself as the, is a disincentive to just stay away and not like them because those first sessions back are brutal. And, uh, that was yesterday. So, you know, that, yeah, cause you've been away too, right? So tell us about, tell us about that. Uh huh. Oh.

Yeah, my first day is tomorrow. I've been away and I got sick. So I've been away and I got sick too as well. And this kind of sickness, I never get sick, but I've been sick twice this year, which is really rare. And this last time I got sick in a way that my lungs are just not breathing. Like I went to the protocol at the first time, I was huffing and puffing in the first three minutes, like the first game. Like I was like dying. I was like, this is not good. But I think it has just so much gunk in my lungs that I just had to get that. rust off the lungs and I just haven't been in the gym for that reason. just like, I can't do both. You just like, you know, go to the gym and they go play paddle, but I've had a couple of paddle games. like, yeah, you know what? better just not go to the gym because I think the paddle games is going to, you know, destroy me long enough. But you're going back to cranky old men's, listen, I'm not saying that all everybody's like that. I'm just saying I'm hearing more and more of, of people that are trying to strive for this work life balance, quote unquote. And And I think the problem I have with it is not that they want it. I think the problem I have with it is more that they have an illusion of what that actually is supposed to look like. And that's the, this illusion is where I'm kind of frustrated with is because I think someone sold them a lie. Someone sold them a lie that there's supposed to be this illusion of a work-life balance and that illusion that they're striving for can't be achieved if there's no sacrifice. And that's what I'm frustrated with. It's not so much that the striving for it. I think we all try to strive. Of course I want balance in my life. Of course I want to make sure that I'm not working my ass off and burnout. I'm not asking for people to do that. I don't want people to do that. But I feel like the seed that's been planted in their head about work life balance is unrealistically unattainable in a way that they see it without actually working for it. Does that make sense? It's like, yeah, you can achieve that, but there has to be sacrifices to get to that point.

Yeah

it's almost like, yes, I want that Ferrari, I want that yacht, want that private plane, but if you're not willing to work for it and actually do the things to get there, then it's just a dream that you see on Netflix or someone else's post. And it's not realistic, but what I'm seeing is that people have, and I think it's more and more with social media, that we see the desire that we want, but we're not taking the necessary steps and sacrifices to actually try to achieve it. thinking that someday I would just magically think and believe in it and it will actually come true. And that's where I think the disconnect comes. And why am I frustrated? It's not because I'm frustrated with those people. I'm frustrated because you're wasting life's potential. You're wasting those years, your critical years of, you know, being in your twenties where you can actually do something about it and establish a great foundation for your life. And unfortunately, what I'm seeing is that because they're so disillusioned by this is that they're not going to, they're not going to recognize this until their early thirties. I, at the time they hit early thirties, it's almost like you lost so much, uh, gap that you have the gap of, of, of skills, um, experience and courage, tenacity that you could have gained to have set you up for your thirties would have been amazing, but because you didn't do anything about it, now you've got to start from scratch, but you're now older than the people who are coming out at twenties and the 20 coming out of university. Now you're, you can't move as fast as them. and plus you want to start a family. So like you got this compounding problem that is a wasted life, that wasted life potential that, you know, that I think that could be leveraged appropriately if you just put that energy when you're in your 20s. That's what I'm frustrated about. I hope that I'm clear on

Yeah, actually let me, let me retrace something because obviously with our particular background in healthcare and specifically coaching and coaching chiropractors, we see that a lot in this industry. You know, I'm curious, you know, like I don't hear it in a lot of other industries in professional industry. So I don't know the accountant or lawyer who walks out, graduates comes in and says, okay, I'm really looking just some, part-time stuff. really want to get my. work-life balance, they're not getting into first base. So I don't know whether it's something specifically within carpractors who have this particular mindset, but so I think there's a big disconnect there because I coach outside of carpractic industry with a lot of people. I want to tell you, they're not talking about work-life balance in the same way that carpractors do.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I wonder that's because the chiropractor selling that lifestyle of going, Hey, you know, I remember the joke that the running joke in chiropractic, right? For me was always been like, Oh, how many hours of work you week? I'm like, I work 25. Oh man. That's full time. Right. As a chiropractor. And it's funny, but at the same time it's kind of true, but that's actually after you put in about 10 years of experience and, and, and, and, put in your, put in the time to actually get there. But I think that's what I mean that this illusion is that we sell that story. And then, you know,

Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

you know, a new grad comes out and goes, well, I should have that now within the first couple years of my practice.

Yeah. Yeah. They haven't, they haven't, they haven't heard the right. but it's a very interesting thing that's happening. And at the moment, if you look at, you know, the, the age profiles in America, in Australia, in Canada, you're starting to get the baby boomers who are now starting to retire. So a lot of them now are starting to sell off businesses, you know, and, and there's this generational transfers of wealth businesses, et cetera, it's going on. But there's a lot of industries, particularly service industries in these main countries that are people are trying to cash out to basically move to retirement. And they're having a problem getting people coming in and taking up these roles. You you talk about, you know, carpracters in Australia, we both have got clients who have been screaming out for people to come and help them. And they just can't get anybody to come out and help them. So, but if you, if you've been working exceptionally

Yeah.

hard for many, many years, you're looking for someone to come in and help out. There's a big gap between the assumptions, expectations of what someone's been doing this for 20, 30 years, uh, is meeting with someone who's coming in and going, Hey, I've got this perception. As you said, illusion. I agree to a degree. Um, I've got this illusion of what that would look like and I'm not prepared to put in that effort. That's a problem. There's a big gap between expectations on both parties.

Yeah. And I think also too, there's an uprising on the other side too as well, which is the obviously the uprising of artificial intelligence and AI and how that's gonna impact our world. Maybe not necessarily in chiropractic right off the bat, but it's gonna impact chiropractic I think in the long run. A lot of different industries is gonna start being affected, regards to, for example, lawyers, like why would you hire a lawyer to do work and AI can do 100,000, 100,000 times faster? Why would you hire an accountant who can do, you know, technologies that can, you know, do your accounting way faster and way cheaper? And so like certain professions are going to be at a crosshair of changing, um, raving radiographers, like an AI can definitely do a radiographer's job way better and more accurate with less faults, uh, than, than, uh, than a person who graduates from radiography coding, you know, like let's think about the last, you know, 15, 20 years is, you know, parents have always told us like, you gotta learn coding. You gotta learn computer science. Well, I don't know, like, do you have to code anymore? You know, that's probably one of the first things that's going to go away. You know, like I'm not saying coding isn't important, but I'm like guiding my son now. like, oh, okay, you might want to learn some basic encoding, but going into career encoding is, you know, that's not, I wouldn't recommend that at the moment, right? Because that's not where the future is heading. It's because of anything you're going to move away from that. So all these technology, now as a carparker, if you're a carparker listening to you, might go, well, how does it affect me? Well, it does affect you because truck driving, like truck driving, car, transportation, that can be all autonomous. And that's coming faster than you think. And if that changes that dynamics, and all of a sudden you got all these patients who no longer can work because their job is displaced, that's gonna affect your practice. It's gonna affect the types of people that are coming in your practice anymore. They don't have money, disposable income to kind of... to get those care, that's going to have a detrimental effect. Now, is it a first order effect? No, it's probably not a first order, but it definitely has some direct impact, secondary and tertiary. And you got to start thinking about those things and how are you prepared? Are you prepared enough? Are you strong enough? Not strong enough, but are you, your brand and your expertise and the results that you bring into your patients, the relationship that you build, are you strong enough that you can still communicate enough value of what you do when people are being displaced everywhere? And I think that's something to really think about. And if you want to think about your future, especially if you're in your 20s, like you have some time here still, but you know, the people who are in there, you know, later on in their careers, they're ever going to retire, right? The people in the middle are going to get caught and the people in the new, if you don't think about your future, you're going to get caught too. Cause if five years down the track, if you're not prepared for this, a whole ground swallow of problems is to start coming up too. I think, you know, we're just, we don't anticipate that, you know, maybe AI technology is going to be able to. analyze the spine better than we can. We haven't decided that there's, maybe there's gonna be adjusting robots that can adjust the nervous system better than we can, more specific and for less cost. You might not think that, but technology's improving at an exponential rate. And I think we need to start thinking about how can we affect us? How can we think of ways that it's gonna disrupt our profession? Because when you start thinking like that, then you're gonna be able to, start looking at different skill sets and different things that might lead you to improve yourself overall.

Uh, that's a great, great segue into that Lawrence. And, and, know, they, they quite often say when a player retires from a game and then they've been out of the game for a couple of years to come back into it, the rate of change that's happened is so rapid that even though it's only a year or two out of the game, it's gone, gone past them. And I certainly noticed that for the first, I don't know, half a day or so, I really had to concentrate, I had to work really hard because they'd been Changes in the ground in how things have been done then when I did it even just a couple of years ago a few years ago so That that is a really an important consideration if you're thinking that the internet is just this passing trend and you're a laggard and you haven't got an on board That's right. You're be left behind. So I definitely I definitely see there's a as a challenge and a problem and and identifying that like like you just said there's things that you you think are Untouchable. I'm okay. Won't touch me. Well, like you said, I've declared earlier that I'm involved in the finance industry and there are full expectations that open source banking will effectively change. And they're anticipating that within six years, it'll be pretty much all applications will be done. basically using AI technology. They've got the technology within two and a half years to do that about. So you're actually starting to see a lot of sales of established businesses because they're anticipating, they're going, listen, this is going to change. I may not be able to cash out in my business. So that's influenced how I go about what I'm doing. I've totally pivoted in that business model. There were opportunities for me to buy other businesses within that space. I chose not to. I've avoided that and I've changed my value proposition in a way that's very service based. So I can actually be a co-pilot to AI technology as opposed to being displaced by it. And I think that that's why that's important is you have to have a lay of the land and get an understanding of what's going on here and how can I use this rather than and that basically how do I go up against it.

Yeah, exactly. Like the year, you're basically, you know, one, the one I was talking to an AI expert recently, and he has had about three AI startups. And, you know, we were talking about this because he just did a talk on around AI to the, you know, the parents here at our school. And it was really interesting and fascinating talk with him and he's an expert in this field. He speaks on conventions on AI and he's got a company and it's like, and he, know, with all the new just the news that's just coming out in the last couple of weeks, he's like, yeah, I think I better sell my company, you know, because it's going to get disrupted. And this is how Fats is moving. And he just, he also said, we don't know where this is going. Like no one's predicted, like we can make some predictions. I was at a conference in Florida just a couple of weeks ago and there was a futurist there and you know, where she was talking about, you know, where the future is heading. And she said, you know, the thing about futurists, you what you need to understand is that, you know, we're not here to predict the future. And what we what we're here is to kind of looking at all the trends that are happening, that are non necessarily interlinked in our eyes at the moment. It's like looking at trends around the world, and then seeing where they can actually collide and create a future that we may not have known. And she kind of goes back, it's a lot easier to think backwards than it is to go think forward, right? So and connecting the dots, right? So like what you talked about, when back in 1999, when she was like in Japan, you know, she was looking at like these, you know, she was looking at the top technologies in Japan and they were like the Walkman, you know, and there was the, you know, then there was like the MP3 player, then there was like the top DVD players and the top TVs and, you know, top, you know, programming and all that stuff. And you start looking at all these technologies. And if you just think fast forward 10 years after that, what happened? iPhone. brought all of those things. Like each one of those were individual technologies in their field and they all kind of just came into one device. That changed the direction of our world. And if you're young enough to kind of see and remember that, it's like, yeah, that was a game changer. Like having the iPhone and having the calculator and the DVD player, the music player, and the file storage, going on the internet, all of that, and doing your banking and all this stuff on just this one device, that was unheard of back then. And I think that that's where the future is it tries to predicts and if we start to think about it We don't know no one knows because all these things all these moving things haven't collided yet and it's like how did what they're trying to do is seeing all these different parts and like How would the world look differently? How would that collide and then change with the future? And I think now listen, I know we're going to a topic that the most people can't fathom I can't fathom this but doesn't mean you shouldn't think about it, right? It doesn't mean you shouldn't like just really kind of think through like how does this gonna affect you and how's this gonna affect your career and your path and your life and your kid's life because it will have a massive impact and if you're better prepared for it, if you're constantly looking ahead and having that mindset, I think that's way better looking at life that way because then you actually have an opportunity to possibly adapt or possibly see opportunities that you can seize rather than just waiting for things to happen.

And, and like you said, Lawrence, there's a lot of changes at the moment, um, uh, occurring with, with AI, uh, but even legislation, it legislatively, you look at it in America at the time of recording now, uh, basically Elon Musk has gone in with, uh, his group and they're basically the department of, uh, of efficiency that they're incorporating in, in us expenditure and they're uncovering huge inefficiencies. And so that's meant huge layoffs of people as well. So I think what's, what's going to happen is that you compound inefficiencies of, of operations coupled with technology that will be an escalating process. So I think, you know, when you were talking to your son earlier on, I think you're spot on. think the skillset will be how quickly can I adapt to my environment? Um, and if, and if everything goes, if everything that you were planning in that direction, It's the nimbleness of being able to say, okay, how can I rapidly get onto this new path or this new trend or this new movement as opposed to being totally, you know, a zero sum game. And I think that's that to me, that's the new skill set at the moment is the ability to innovate and to adapt no matter what.

Yeah, and in the ability, I think one of the things that we kind of concluded from our discussion was like, because we had this conversation around like, what do you think, what's one skill that we can actually teach our kids or push them towards that's not going to be disrupted? And the only thing I can think of is like the ability to communicate, like your ability to be able to create communication and build bonds in service industry. I think that will still somewhat exist. And no matter what career you actually ended up. going into, whether it be in hospitality, whether it be in chiropractic, whether it be in what you talked about, even in the finance world, because people are still gonna miss that human touch, the human interaction. But even then, that is getting crazier and crazier with AI that they can replicate my voice, replicate this video. We can probably do the podcast without us actually even being here, Jim. We should look into that. And what that's gonna look like. But it's something that I think, that's something that I feel like is

Yeah.

going to be harder to disrupt and because we're going to crave for it no different than, you know, live concerts right now. You know, people still want to go see their favorite bands in concert because that's still like the live touch versus like listening in on Spotify anymore. It's like, yeah, whatever, like I hear the song, I can put it on repeat, you know, it's not as challenging, but seeing them alive, my favorite, my favorite band or favorite singer to be able to, you know, go to that concert and get that experience that you can't replicate that you have to kind of be there for. So I think something in that type of that skill set. which can be translated to whatever career you end up doing, I think is still a masterful skill that a lot of people should really kind of think of. And communication is gonna be a very important element in terms of the ability to sail and ability to talk and to be able to connect with people. think that's a skill set I feel like that's gonna be still undisrupted, but having said that, I think it is already getting disrupted. I know a friend of mine, for example, is working on an AI technology that allows you to kind of have on screen to be able to have sales conversations with the prospect, knowing exactly based on how they respond to you, they already have a script ready to say it. So like, they're already improving that. you know, like, this is it's getting crazy, right? So I can imagine like, there's going to be people with glasses, and then you will have like the technology inside their glasses, you won't be able to see it that but the person reading those glasses will be able to to have that conversation and read off a script without you even knowing that they're trying to sell you. So that's within our, I think that's, we know only a few years away.

And, and totally embracing that I think is going to be very helpful because the people who are very excited by other people who can see the applications and where it will benefit society, the people that are scared about it is that when they're looking at it going, okay, um, I can't change. And because I can't change, I'm going to lose. And I think that, you know, it's not, it's, you know, you talk to any farmer. And they have to adapt sometimes. They might've been growing sheep and, you know, basically tending sheep and cattle. And then suddenly they realized, you know what, there's not as much money in here. I need to convert some of this land to grow barley and I need to grow some crops to generate. So there's an element of that that has been around for a long time. And if you're basically trying to still horse, you know, basically fit shoes on horses because that's, you know, It's a niche area, but you've missed the trend of society. And this is what I guess we're saying. And when we do step back to it, like, you know, it wasn't so long ago where there wasn't computerization, there was handwriting notes. And now, you know, that doesn't happen. Everything's all computer, everything's digitized and whatever. So if your expectations are that I'll just go back and do what I used to do, it's not, you're not going back to. two years, you're going back like 20 years, 30 years. It's almost because the rate of change is happening, the expectation, the bar is much higher. That's what I'm noticing. That's, and you've got to constantly be leveling up. can't afford to stagnant. You've got to keep improving just to stay where you are. Otherwise you're giving up ground. going backwards.

Yeah, and I think we started this conversation by you reflecting back on, know, going back to the practice for a few weeks and then really kind of creating those memories of what it used to be like. And I think that's exactly what it is. Like for those people who have been in, you know, in any particular business or now for some period of time, like you can look back in your life and go look at your career and how much of your career path has changed. Like what are some of the things have changed since the beginning of your career? you know, in terms of marketing, maybe sales, maybe communication, structure of businesses, and they've all kind of evolved in some way or another. But there's also certain things that hasn't changed. Like there's certain staples that are just constantly the same, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, maybe even 50 years ago, that has not changed. And I think when you can start to observe trends from the past to the future, or sort of to the present, then to the future, you can start to recognize like certain things may not change ever. but there's certain things that are consistently changing and is responding and respecting that and going, okay, these things are foundational things that probably won't get disrupted, doesn't mean it's 100%, but there's also things that are constantly changing and so therefore we have to kind of adapt. And I think knowing and trusting the process that they're gonna be adapting and we have to adapt and the world is changing, I think that's a smarter way of looking at it. I think if you think that your practice is gonna look exactly the same how it was five years from now to what it is now, I think you're. I think you're very mistaken and I think you're just hoping. And what that's going to happen is that you're not going to learn what it needs to do to adapt. And by the time you actually adapt, it's already too late because the world has already moved on to the next thing for the next five years and you're going to be that much further behind.

Yeah. And this may show up a lot of times. don't know about you, Lawrence, but certainly when I've caught up with people I haven't seen for a long time and you start playing the, is what it was like back in the day kind of scenario, you actually realize that, you know, just because you're the same age as somebody, someone may be accelerated and really embracing all this. Some people are just like the deniers. No, it'll won't change. And it's not, this is not just an age thing. I think it's a mindset thing and you only ever have to revisit or catch up with people and old friends or whatever that gets you thinking about the old way of life as opposed to the new way of life. ever had those scenarios where it throws you in?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The way you start to think about it is, I do agree with you, it's a mindset, it's not an age thing. The age is just an easier way for us to wrestle and grapple with things. But I feel like you've always been ahead of the game, you're always constantly changing, and your mindset's always been about looking forward and thinking about the future, reflecting on the past, learn from the lessons from the past, but also constantly looking forward to the future and predicting what's next. And I think that takes a certain amount of mindset. But that also takes a lot of courage because a lot of people don't, most people don't want to do that. Most people don't want to look towards the future because they like the way it is. And anybody who's tried to make any changes in their business, of the time, 95 % of the time, you're to get resistance from everybody else. And the reason why you get resistance is because people generally don't want change. No one likes to change. I I don't want change. Like unconsciously, you don't want the change. Like you want your day to day be exactly the same as it was before. However, you and I are, know, we like our routines. However, we also recognize is that if we will also be very bored of our routines, if it's exactly the same, you know, if the meal was exactly the same as it was five years ago to what you enjoy now, like life is boring. Now, some people might disagree, but I would say most people wouldn't want to go back to the same place over and over again. That's one of reasons why I left Australia. Cause like I've basically seen most of Australia, like how many more times can I go to... I don't know, Brisbane or Byron Bay, that it's going to go, wow, this is exciting. I've never seen this before. No, it's the same bloody hotel, same restaurant, and same place I've been to three to four times now. And there's not that much change. And I remember one of the things that for me, variety is such an important element for me. when we decided, made a decision a couple of years ago, we moved to Europe, we went to Venice, for example. We went to, you know, Let's say we went to Venice. I remember going to Venice because that's my memory. And it was great visiting at the second time. But it wasn't the same, the nostalgia. First time I went there, you know, when I first saw Venice for the first time and how surprised I was, I still get, don't get me wrong. I enjoyed like getting lost, you know, in Venice, but I also knew it was a little bit predictable because I kind of knew where certain things were. And that was the same store. There's the same restaurant. There's the same. And, and for me, like, I just realized, I'm like, you know what? We're in Europe, we have, so many different cities we've never been to, we need to make a conscious effort as a family to not go back to the same city we've been to. Doesn't mean we never will, right? Like I'm going to Madrid, for example, I've been there a couple of times. Doesn't mean we won't, but it just means that let's do our, like a real big effort to not go on holidays to the same place if we can help it, you know? Or if we are gonna go back, we've been to London several times, but each time we're gonna go on it, we're not gonna watch the same plays, are we? No, we're gonna watch a different play, you know? We might stay in a different area. You know, if something like London is massively big enough that you can kind of do that. So what I'm saying is it's about trying to create, like instead of doing the same thing every single year or every single month, it's like what can, what's 10 % or 20 % difference can we do in practice or in a business that can be slightly different than we've always done before? Because that 10, 20 % may shift you into something else that you never knew. Like for me, it coaching. You know, like I was, you know, was in practice, I had a great career, had a great business. I got bored and I started dabbling into multiple things like internet marketing and all that stuff. then eventually stumbled into coaching and I was like, oh, there's something here that I kind of enjoy. And 10 years later, I'm still doing it. And so you never know with that attempt, but it's,

It's changed a lot. It's changed a lot. Your delivery, your platforms, your heck, you know, when we're, I mean, yeah, you've been doing podcasts for a long time and I've been involved in them for less of a time, even that industry changes.

Yes. Yeah. And it's like, it's, but your ability to lean in and also expect the change, just to say we just as no different than we buy new phones, right. Or new technologies or new things. Why do we do that? Well, because we're evolving and changing. Right. And we want to, but we don't do that. We don't think about it for ourselves. We buy all this new technology, but we never actually upgrade our own technology, which is our brain, our mindset and everything else. And I think this is what our, this whole discussion about, yeah, we're going down memory lane, but also looking forward to the future and recognizing like. you are the one who's going to be responsible. The world's not going to change you. The world is moving. It's whether you want to move with the world or just want to keep your status quo. And there's nothing wrong with keeping the status quo. I think it's important for some people who just want to keep the nostalgia of that area. But at the same time, it's like you also got to see what's going on and you got to see which one resonates with you the most.

And if you look at it particularly from a business perspective, whenever you're doing a SWOT analysis, you always got to look at your strengths and weaknesses, what threats particularly are coming ahead. And some of those threats are what you're talking about. Some of those threats are basically external, some of them are internal. The threat or the fear of boredom and You know, not interest or obsolescence and all those kinds of things are all threats that you have to acknowledge. And this is really what I guess I'm liking about this conversation is that you can see multiple applications of this. You know how I mentioned earlier on about the number of people who are retiring? Well, there's some statistics in the U S are saying that the, the, business schools, less students are graduating from business schools and MBAs and going into the corporate world and more of them are buying. mom and pop businesses that are established in service industries and updating and automating them and optimizing the operations as a pathway to freedom and their lifestyle and their ideal lifestyle. So that's taking an established service that's going to be around, potentially around for a while and upgrading it to the 21st century using technology. So that's a perfect example of how to meet the old and new worlds. in a way that optimizes and perpetuates business and success.

Yeah. And that's exactly right. There's a, there was always a gap, right? What was hot like 30 years ago is no longer, you know, they can't keep up using the same style, but if you upgraded, you know, the technology, then all of sudden, like you may up, you know, create a new genre out of it. And then there's so many industries like, you know, it's really hard to kind of navigate, you know, children's lives in terms of the future, like I'm my kids, because there's, I guarantee you in five, 10 years, when by the time they graduate from whatever university come out of, there's going to be jobs that never existed in the world. that existed now. Like, it's like, mean, the perfect example I can think of right now is like, you think about YouTube influencers, or even influencers as a, just as a career path. Like, that was not a thing 10 years ago, right? It's not, like, people don't make money just, you know, just doing videos, but now there's an opportunity for like a lot of people and they all want to be influencers. Like, there are probably more people want to be an influencer than they actually would do want to have an MBA, which is kind of crazy. I made that stat up, by the way. I'm not saying that that's true, but I'm just pointing the fact that, you know, society has young kids, they're getting... they're getting influenced to want to do the things that they want to kind of become. No different than when we were kids, we wanted to be, for you might've been a cricket player or back in North America, we want to be a football player or hockey player or a basketball player or whatever it was. And so I think different as the decades go on, you're going to get influenced by what's hot in the moment, but those jobs and those things may not be around. you know, 10 years time or 15 years time, or again, certain things are gonna pop up. And I think this is what we're talking about is that you, in order for to keep up in trends, just to kind of keep up with what things going on, you do have to kind of play and learn to adapt a little bit of time to kind of figure out like what's happening around the world around you. Otherwise you're gonna be left behind.

And I guess probably there's another thread that I wanted to incorporate. We spoke about this offline before and I want to give you an opportunity to talk about it if you want to about, um, you know, when, when we checked in just before we started recording, I had said, yeah, I've been away. been away. And in the time that you'd been away, you'd mentioned that you'd had an update about it. Someone that you'd gone to school with, uh, as well. And that was kind of like causes reflection. And it kind of ties into this conversation as well, too, if you want to share that.

Yeah, so I think what happened for us, when I was away, when I was in Florida for the conference, I just happened to randomly stumbled on a Facebook post and a picture of a friend that I haven't seen in a very, very long time. We're talking about probably 25 years or so, maybe even longer. And I was like, oh, this is kind of interesting. But it was more like a photo, which is not unusual, but it was actually what the reactions were. It was a lot of hugs and care and love and like. That's weird. You know, this is the picture. Usually he's more thumbs up than anything else. and then I realized that, um, you know, as I dug a little deeper is that he just passed away. Uh, he would have been the same age as me, you know, at 49 and, he, knew him when we about 15 years old and I spent a whole summer, um, at camp. And that's how I met him. He was one of those people that I've met in camp. And one of things you wouldn't recognize that there's different types of friends. There's friends that you kind of meet in school that you kind of see nine to five. Then you kind of have friends that I met in camp, which you live 24 seven for about a month. And so you have a much deeper relationship with those types of people sometimes because you see the goods and the bad and you live with them the whole time. It's like having roommates. It's a very different kind of friendship. And we formed a friendship and he really, you know, I was such a goody two shoe like kind of kid when I was growing up in high school. And he was a little bit more rougher. You know, he was a bit more, you know, came from, you know, he saw the streets a little bit more and. But he exposed me to that, not to that life, but to like what's actually out there and recognizing that I gotta be a little bit more street smart than I was because of my sheltered life that I actually had. But what brought back a lot, mean, I haven't, this is when I was 15, so we kept in contact for a few years. He actually introduced me to like Genesis and Phil Collins and all that type of thing. So it was like my first intro to kind of that type of music. But what happened when I heard that he died, it really brought back a lot of memories, even though I have never, I spoke to him once on text, maybe I actually went back to my Facebook messages and see like when was the last time I actually communicated was actually in 2007. It was the year before my daughter was born. So that was a totally different life. Like my life is like before kids was like, I don't even remember it. Like that's it's crazy long time ago. And that was 17 years ago. then, and then now I look back and you know, when I, when I found out I heard he died, it just flushed back all this memory and of like, you know, the time that we have. even though it was very short, even though it was only a couple years, it just brought back a lot of memories in terms of life that we had, which was a totally different life. And this is what I, to tie back into this particular conversation, it really just realized how much I have changed, how much a person I am and the life that I have now and the decisions I made or anybody else made or didn't make have led up to the life that we have had. again, it's no good or bad. you know, I reached out to actually his ex-girlfriend, you know, back in the day, and just to say, hey, I'm not sure you heard, but you know, Ross has passed away. And you know, she was, you know, surprised too as well, because it was unexpected. Not that she's ever communicated with him for a long time, but again, like it's just, was just this one moment in time, someone passed away, and then you kind of all of sudden transport back, you know, 30 somewhat years. And it's just to think back, I'm like, wow, like that was the life I had. And for me to reflect back on it, was like, It's amazing how much time has goes by and you think like it seems slow, but you recognize like so much has happened. Like so much has happened since I was 15 years old, right? And the transpire, the friends I've met along the way, the family I've had, the friendship that I've, you know, like yourself who are formed in the business directions and the how many moves I've made. like, I never would have thought at 15 years old, I'll be in the position of where I am talking about this. There's no way. And I think, so bringing back to what we're talking about is like, there's no way whoever you are, would however old you are right now listening to this and watching this, you have no idea what your next 20 years or 30 years are gonna bring. You don't know where you're gonna be. But I do know one thing, right? Which is this is the thing that kind of came up for me is that I have a choice and an opportunity each day to make and shape that 30 year old version, future version of myself to be something that I kind of want to have. But it starts with making small decisions and being consciously guiding towards it. rather than just allowing life to happen without any guidance whatsoever and just hope for the best. And that's what I mean by sort of reflecting back on, know, deaf really kind of reflects me, especially on someone close to me and to go, am I living the life I'm supposed to be living? Like am I doing everything possible to maximize that? Because I just never know. It could be tomorrow, like, you know, something could just happen. And that's a... it really brought back a lot of mortality, the, know, and more and more people at our age are actually, I guess our friendships are starting to pass on for a variety of reasons. And it's only going to happen in Excel. We're going watch my dad, you know, his friends are passing away faster, you know, obviously at his age. And yeah, like, and then it's just questions like, okay, well, what's life about and are we living to it? And now we, should we be really stressed about all the little things that we stress about every single day? So anyway, so thank you for. Allowing me to express that, that's sort of the things that have been popping up. And I hope that by sharing that, gets the listeners and the viewers to kind of reflect upon, you know, their life right in this moment and recognize them like, you know, can you make changes? And are those changes that you've always wanted to make? Are you willing to do it now? Or are you going to still continue waiting to make those changes?

There's not much for me to add to that at all, other than to say rate of change happens sometimes faster than you think. and what I'm taking out of your story is that you don't know what's ahead. And just deferring making decisions sometimes. there's opportunity costs as a result of that because things happen so quickly. You can be at the effect of those changes if you don't step in and be proactive. So I think that's really what I'm taking out of those stories. But I'm done. I'm complete. hopefully someone's taking something that they can reflect in their own lives out of our conversation today.

Yeah, I guess I'll leave one more thought, which is what I've tried been doing this year a lot more is reminding myself of that. So I think one of biggest challenge I have had in the past is not, there's fleeting moments, right? Like something like this, there were goes, oh yeah, reflecting upon life, it's great. But then you forget about it tomorrow or you move on to the next thing. And so what I'm trying to do more consciously is every day reminding myself of like, what am I doing this for? Like, what are my goals? What am I really living life for? And then just having that quick reflection. so that I'm constantly reminded there are things that I'm trying to do here. Sure, I'm not gonna go after my goals every single day, but it's like a reminder, I'm like, do you want to do that? Is that still where you're in pursuit? And for me, that has been very helpful to ensure that I'm actually doing the right things and taking action. So I hope that that helps in some way, because it's like knowing where you wanna go is important, but then also taking consistent action towards it by reminding and setting a habit to. I think is also very, it's the second step to ensuring that you get to success faster. So I hope that was helpful and I hope that you guys got some great value from today. And today's obviously podcast is about the Wabi Sabi, which is about the art of imperfection. And until next episode, we'll talk to you soon. Take care.

Nice.