Upgrade Your Identity

Welcome to another episode of Wabi Sabi, the art of imperfection, the podcast where we talk about all things that are imperfect. Jim, it's great to have you on again. And as my partner in crime, I've been reflecting closer to my age, unfortunately, and I hit 49 this year. And that means I'm one year short to 50. And I know I don't look it. Most people, you know, say that to give me that compliments, but these gray hair are changing that status.

it. You old man you. Yeah.

So listen, I was thinking about this and reflecting back on my life, not that I'm a half a century, that's next year's, don't stress. But I was just thinking back though, is about how, who I have become, have changed so much in terms of, you know, who I am, what my value and who I identify with. And I thought, you know, you mentioned this as a topic and I thought this is perfect because really it's about the necessary change that you have to make internally. to be upgrading this identity within yourself in order for you to accomplish certain things. I actually had the opportunity to be in a conference last week and one of the two speakers they actually had on was Lindsey Vonn, who was a Olympic gold medalist for the US ski team and Danica Patrick, who is the female racing car driver who raced against NASCAR, I believe. And they had them both on and we were fantastic. It was really, really cool to see. And you can really see, they talked a lot about obviously competition and I'll talk about how they, you know, how Danica was able to thrive in a male dominated sport and Lindsay, you know, becoming gold medals and what she had to do. And you can really go through that. They were top athletes, you know, they were really had that certain mindset, but now they're both retired and now they're going through that phase of their careers. You know, I think Danica has her own podcast and to be honest with you, Lindsay has no idea what she wants to do. And it's really funny, not funny actually, it's really enlightening and actually great to see that vulnerability from Lindsay. And I wanna start this conversation by looking at them and going like, when they were in their prime of doing their sport, they knew their identity. And Danica actually made this point, she's like, I never saw myself as a female driver, I just saw myself as a driver. that's the identity that she has. So she wasn't like competing against boys and men's, like she was a driver competing against other drivers. She never thought of herself as a female driver. And I think that's the thing that we're kind of talking about, but you know, now that, so when they were doing their sport, they were the best of the best, and that's how they identified themselves. But when they leave the sport, when you retire, you get to this position to kind of that loss of identity, you know, that where would, who am I now without, you know, all this fame and winning and trophies and medals, who am I? And that's that.

Yep.

whole effect that changes when people retire or sell their business, or move on from something, they kind of lose that sense of identity. So identity is a big conversation today. Yeah, or move countries, that's right. And how we identify ourselves. And so we're gonna dive into that topic. So Jim, let's take it away. And where do you want to start with when it comes to identity?

Or move countries. Or move countries, Loris. Love it. Yeah. Great. Great preparation for that. That's a great story. And you're right about athletes because I remember hearing many years ago, Tony Robbins saying one of a fundamental human need is to have consistency with your identity. Right. So things that you do, you feel like you're out of integrity or misaligned if things happen that are outside of your identity of yourself. And so if something exceptionally good happens in your life, and you don't feel like you deserve it and or you don't feel like, you know, we talked about it just before we got on air really was if your business suddenly grows exceptionally quickly and you haven't adapted to that, what happens is we've seen that happen many times with coaching clients is that things default back to the set point of where they believe they are and where they deserve to be and where they feel worthy at that level and so they can't hold that upside purely because they haven't owned the identity of the person who is generating that volume, that turnover, that those collections in their business, their practice, whatever it is. And so to me, I think the really key important distinction, and you talked about it from another point, you know, about people who time which hadn't even considered, it's really about a lot of the times we need to upgrade, like a software upgrade in our psyche and identity first. to then allow things to catch up. Because a lot of the times if things change and you haven't, you generally find that there's an incongruency there.

Yeah, absolutely. The part about you saying how most people or a lot of clients go through this process and you know, the clients who strive for success, we all have a goal. We talked about those in the previous podcast and they strive, this is what I want. But the challenge is that everybody's looking for the plan and because everybody has a goal, right? Every Olympian wants the gold medal, right? So it's just part of that process. But the thing is that they want a plan. They're like, what's the steps? But the most important step I think is that who are you gonna become? Again, unless you actually ask that question amongst yourselves, is to figure out who are you gonna become in that process because it's not about the steps because if it was just the steps, you kinda already know the steps, right? So let's use a very simple example. It's like if you wanna lose weight or get fitter, get stronger, right? What do you do? Like if I asked 100 people, they would tell you, well, eat better food, exercise, and get better sleep. Right? Those are the main things. It's not rocket science. It's not like it's a secret. You know that's what you have to do. But what would people are looking for? Yeah, but which diet though, specifically? Well, I think any diet will probably, if you're really overweight, it's probably going to work. All right? And any exercise or doing something or more activity than you're actually currently doing, if you're overweight, then that's gonna help you. But what the difference is, isn't the diet. It's not like, oh, you have to eat broccoli and chicken. or you have to go, you know, you have to do cardio or whatever it is. And most people think that, okay, that's the solution because looking for this magic bullet. But the thing is that you have to ask yourself what kind of person does those things, right? What kind of being, like what kind of, what did, who do they have to become to actually eat, you know, not to eat sugar, to eat proteins and more, you know, have a whatever diet they're gonna have, like eat less fat, eat less sugar. And don't overeat and actually go to the gym on a regular basis What kind of person is wired that way because that person that identity of that person is? You can identify them based on the behaviors, but it's because of their who they who they already are so for example if I see a Let's say we see a guy. He's got a six-pack. No, he's built he's slim, but he you know He's like, you know, you know definitely fit, you know If I ask those, what kind of identity does this person see himself, you know he identifies himself as someone who believes, or at least have the values, that health, or at least being fit, physically fit, is important to that person, right? That that person is not going out eating pizzas, and not eating Big Macs and McDonald's burgers and stuff, because that person values, because he's becoming, he has to be that person first, which dictates the behaviors.

Yeah. Yep.

which then dictates the actions that person's gonna take.

Yep. Yeah, great point that you raised. And it's, and it's actually what you see a lot in times, particularly in health. You know, you see it a lot with people who have lost weight and been able to keep that off or people who used to smoke and no longer smoke. The biggest thing that happens that I found as well too, is they change their identity of how they see themselves. So for example, if someone stops smoking and the next day they go in their mind from seeing themselves as a smoker to a non smoker.

Hmm.

That's the difference that makes a difference because it's like a cog ticks over in their mind and suddenly they go, well, I'm not longer that person anymore because what happens if you're a smoker and you haven't smoked for 78 days, you still identify as a smoker and what you're using is will he was trying to quit. So willpower, but that you shift the needle totally. If you suddenly go from day one, I'm an actually now non smoker.

who's trying to quit.

And so suddenly you're then going to look at ways to have take actions in which you talked about that are consistent with an on smoker. And suddenly it doesn't feel like a, like something that's holding you back that you're trying to run away from, but it's actually something that you're drawn to because that's in keeping with your version and vision of yourself.

Exactly, like let's use a real life example, right? I don't drink, and so when I go to events, people say, hey, go to a dinner, would you like a wine? And I go, no, I don't drink, I'm sorry. Or I don't wanna say sorry, I don't drink. And then they go, oh, and the waiter or the waitress will take that in the box and go take my wine glass because it's like I'm not gonna be, no point offering this person because they're a non-drinker, right? And so you say that to your friends is the same thing.

Yeah.

Like, you know, if you met someone for the first time, you're like, oh, I don't drink. They're not gonna offer you a beer the second time around. They'll offer it once, but they're not gonna offer you a second beer. But you go, oh no, it's dry January. Then what they're gonna do is, oh, come on, mate. It's only one, like only one more day, right? That's the fundamental difference. It's the same thing about that nonsmoker. It's like you either a nonsmoker or you're a smoker who's trying to quit or a drinker who's trying to quit. And that's the, it's so subtle. I know people will be thinking like, but that's just.

Yep. Yep. Yeah.

play on words. No, it's like how the words do matter. Word matters in your psyche and how you identify with yourself.

Yeah. So that's definitely the case. And you mentioned earlier on about athletes. And they also, there's a lot of research and talks about the transition that athletes have to make back to normal civilian life. And they struggle with it, a lot of them. A very classic example is Buzz Aldrin, the astronaut who went up to the... It's called the Buzz Aldrin

Yes.

more grandiose vision you're going to have than going to the moon. Like how many people ever get to do that? And Buzz achieved that and then spiraled downwards afterwards because in effect, he's gone, well, what more is there after going to the moon? I mean, how much grander and bigger am I going to achieve? And so he hadn't calibrated the identity of the astronaut and the civilian. And he spiraled into alcoholism and and a whole lot of things and worked through it through separations and the like. He became a keynote speaker and talked a lot about this and really highlighted exactly the transition that athletes quite often have to make. Gosh, I had to make it moving from, that's why I jumped in before about countries because the identity of the person that we left behind in Australia is totally different to the one that I have now with me. It's almost unrecognizable. For all intents and purposes, you go, you look the same, you sound the same, but I now identify in such a totally different way that version of myself is totally different. But there was a lag time, there was a period where it didn't feel natural or normal up until the new identity upgraded and became more my status quo, my moment of norm.

Mm. Yeah, sports is a perfect example of that. And I see that another analogy of that is like the teams that are the players that win one thing, whether it be Wimbledon or the Super Bowl or Stanley Cup or like win one thing. And like, that's the pinnacle with gold medal. And they're like, yes, I've done it. But they're never able to achieve it again versus the players or the athletes who are able to achieve it once and then twice. and then the third time and a fourth time and they keep going, you go, what more do you want? But there's a massive difference. If you look at like a Michael Jordan or a Kobe Bryant, a Wayne Gretzky, those type of players, a Tom Brady, there's something wired differently. They're not happy and satisfied with one because it's not about just winning one. It's like, we're trying to build a dynasty here. And there's a difference in terms of attitude. Are we trying to go all in to build?

Yeah. Yeah.

win one championship or we're trying to go all in and try to build multiple championship and create a dynasty and those are two very different visions and very two different goals and I think how you identify yourself is going to change.

Totally. And look, a classy example is in women's tennis with Ash Barty winning Wimbledon and blowing everybody away and going, I'm done. I'm out. I'm retiring. And most people are like, what are you talking about? You're on the peak of your career. And she goes, the drive's not there anymore. So I'm really super curious about that, right? Because she achieved it. And you know, she's obviously wired in a different way, but she met what she was striving for. She achieved it. She goes, there is nothing more that

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Perfect. Yep.

I can get over and above achieving this. So it wasn't even that you have a chance of winning it again and again. That wasn't a vitreous to her anymore. Fascinating. And then you've got the Jokovic is who come back and go again and again and again, and keep getting better and better because it's ingrained as a part of their identity. Fascinating.

Yeah, exactly. And it's just, wiring and how you identify yourself is so critical. And oftentimes most of us, I mean, I'm guilty of this too, is like most of us never really think or spend time working on our identity. We just think that this software that we actually have is already inbuilt, that we can't change it. And that's what identity is. It's not, some of it is inbuilt, like it's who you are fundamentally, but if you have an opportunity to upgrade that. software, or you have an opportunity, sure, you're hardwired with some DNA that you can't change. But you have the opportunity to use what you got and upgrade it to the best availability of its potential. If you actually spend time identifying where what are the areas that can upgrade, what can what tools can I do to kind of erase certain parts of identity and, you know, add upgrade and insert other parts of your identity. And that's something that none of us are being taught to do. But it does. take a lot of self reflection to kind of understand where you are. And so let's go back to our first comment, which is about, you know, if we want to be successful in any different area, I, for me, anyways, one of the things that I, I forget to do sometimes is to recognize of going, I just go right to the to do, like, okay, if I want this, I have to do A, B, C, D, and E. But I realized that I have to do more than that what I actually have to do if it's if especially if it's a goal that's like, a little bit out of reach, which means I actually have to like strive and really push my limits. That means I actually have to change who I am in order for me to achieve that. And if I don't change that and I just do the actions, I'm only doing the actions on my old identity, not in the new mindset of the new identity. And that's a problem because, you know, and I maybe like think about, I have a saying that I always talk about, which is be a pro, right? Be a professional, like don't be an amateur, right? And act like a pro and play like a pro and meaning like there's a difference between a professional and an amateur. An amateur is someone who's like just doing the normal thing and what you play and every day, it's just like, it's for fun, you don't get paid for it. You just kind of do it for fun. And it's like, if you lose, you lose. It's not like, yeah, sure, it's heartbreaking, whatever, but it's not that big of a deal because your life doesn't depend on it. But when you're a pro though, right? When you're a pro, just like an athlete, you're now a professional, which means your job is to perform. So you can't have a bad day. Sure, of course you have bad days, but you have to be able to get up from that bad day and still pick up, you know, just so you had a bad game. The next day, guess what? You're a pro, so which means that you have to show up again. You can't just go, you know what? I don't want to do this anymore. No, you're professional. You get paid for this. So therefore, being a pro takes that mentality of no matter how bad things get. you still have to show up the next day. And that's the difference because that's what we do. And so if you take that analogy into our life and business, that's exactly what we're gonna have to do. It's like your life is dependent on you being a pro. This is, you gotta be a professional in your own life. You don't wanna be an amateur in your life.

Yeah. And I think never has a truer statement been made than the difference that you're talking about is the difference between someone who says, this is what I do and this is who I am. Because effectively you're dissociating, you're actioning, you're doing something as a result of that. But when you embody it and go, this is who I am, I'm embodying it, that's exactly right. There's a different level of connection to it and accountability to self that ensures that you do that. But that's the whole process. You know, there's so many

Hmm.

I love what you said about, you know, if you're going to set a audacious goal or something really stretches you, you do, you have to actually almost vision, cast your mind to that point and go, this is X amount of time ahead. This is, I've achieved this outcome. How does a person who has achieved this outcome look, walk, sound, communicate? What action did they take? What did they not take? And that gets you into the frame of mind from the sort of the teleos, as they say in Greek, the the end point and then you're actually looking back and going, okay, well, now I can see the gap that I need to grow into and I need to grow into that area first. Because the actions that you're doing at your current level of reality or identity may be totally different to the ones that are going to be for the person who is at the effect of where you want to get to. And a lot of the times you're acting incongruently with the person and the vision and the identity of the person you need to be.

Exactly the role of what you play in your mind and upgrading your skill set and putting yourself in that position Will really help conquer a lot of fears So what I mean by that is that if you if you're about to embark and let's just face it in order for you to achieve certain things that you are set yourself for You know, you can't go in the same identity because if you did you probably would have done it by now The only reason why you haven't done it is because you aren't there yet person. Like your identity is not there yet So therefore you almost have to do a future pacing first and then take the action. I think that's more effective. Meaning like you have to go, what would Lawrence do in three years time? I always kind of play this game like, what would that new version of me do in this moment? Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What does Lawrence like 2027 Lawrence would do in this situation? What kind of like, what would he do? And the assumption is, is that.

And talking third person as well, too. Right? So you're talking third person here.

that version of the future version of me is better than the version I am now. And so that version would go, yeah, go and do that. Like, don't be stupid, right? Not to do that. You wanna go and take that chance or you gonna go take that risk or bet on this or bet on yourself, whatever it is. Whereas this current version, of course, has fears. Of course, they're gonna be timid. And I think that's the trick here is to be able to go, what's the version? the future version would do and in your shoes currently, and then you take the action so that you can actually gain all the confidence that you need to know that that's my me transitioning to this new person.

Yeah. I'm going to give you an example of this that I, you know, uh, this is, you know, w everything we say goes out and it's recorded for posterity. So I'm actually going to be very vulnerable here and say that one of the things that I love to do and occasionally I get this, if I get down this, I'll go down this rabbit hole. I occasionally I'm a sucker for a story of someone who beats the odds that. You know, goes out on the limb, tries it, tries their luck at something. And there's a great story, like the whole Rocky story, you know, beating Apollo Creed. I'm a sucker for the underdog in that regard. I love that. But one thing, interestingly, I was watching of all things, uh, things got America's got talent, right. And somehow it came across my feed and I went, this is interesting. And what I've always been fascinated is that when someone comes up.

Hmm.

There's two types of people that I see. Like I think I've said on a previous, but I'd be terrified to get up there and sing because I can't sing. So I'm always, I guess, in maturation of those type of people, but there's two types of people, there's people who go up very timidly and you think, Oh my gosh, they're going to just bomb any second because they've got, and something happens in them as this transformation that they embody the, I guess the body and the essence of someone who is the higher form of themselves and they deliver this outstanding performance and the audience goes, whoa, I didn't see that. And they grow into that version of themselves. That's what we're talking about. And people who are the judges quite often will go, I could see that in you that you couldn't see in yourself. So there's one dimension of it. But I'm also then fascinated by the ones who come out and are quite bold and make a declaration

Mm-hmm.

My objective is to win this competition, have this, and they are really clear in their identity of the person who they need to be to achieve that outcome. And in my way, in that example, you see the essence of that growth of who someone needs to be. Some people own it from the start, they can proclaim it. Other people have to grow into it. But either way, you have to embody that higher version of yourself in order to achieve that objective in the long run, I feel.

Yeah. Yeah, it depending on your personality, some people can pull that off, right? That pull off of being able to like, they just have this knowing that they are the greatest of all time. Right? Yeah. Right. You know, I wonder sometimes I don't know if this is true in a story if I actually read this or heard this, but I don't know. I think he believed it. But he's almost I think he willed it if that made sense.

Like Muhammad Ali. Muhammad Ali. He had that aura. Yep. Well that is possible too. You can wield that. You can actually go, I am the greatest and you grow into the belief and the identity of that.

Yeah, you talk yourself into it that, because that's the persona that I am going to be and I project myself that way and I can't lie because my integrity is what it is and you just keep, this is not about spouting out just these niceties but it's really just going like he said it to own himself, to say I'm putting myself on a higher standard. I am gonna be the greatest of all time. And I think that's a massive, some personalities can actually go and do that.

Yeah.

where most of us don't have that personality. I think most of us are actually more on the other side and going, we don't ever want to proclaim anything because we, who are we? We're nobodies. And that goes into the imposter central kind of side of things. And this is where you, you know, if you're that, which is, I would be, that would be me, which is really difficult to kind of shake yourself out of that. So you really have to dig in. Like I know I have to dig in to my own psyche on a regular basis to go. okay, like what is this all about? Because this is on me. This is on, I'm the only person who can talk myself out of this, right? And so which means that I have to play that game of questioning myself. And I'm sure I said this before in a previous podcast. One of the most important thing I kind of say to myself, the question I usually say to myself is, what if, so the what if game. And the what if game is like, what if everybody's right about me and I'm wrong about myself? Meaning like, what if all the perceptions around how people are about me and how great I am, like to say, in terms of the American gods talent, and I'm actually wrong, how would I then show up and how would I behave differently? And all of a sudden, you'd be surprised how your actions would be different. Because the only reason why is because your actions you're currently taking is because of the identity you see in yourself, or you identify with yourself. But if you're looking for it to change, if you're stuck in some way, if you're kinda in a plateau somewhere. Really ask that question and goes, well, what if your perception of yourself is false? What if your perception of yourself isn't true? How would you act differently, right? How would you change your behavior? Like, what if you were, you know, good looking? What if you were charismatic? What if you were insightful and had wisdom and had things to share? Would you act the same way next time you interact with that person? What would you act differently? And if I go through these all the time, I guarantee you, you change your behavior. It's, and it's, you can see that subtle movement within yourself, you're like, oh, my body would change, my shoulder would be pulled back, right? And it's, but that changes how also, all of a sudden, just by you changing your posture, your tone, your energy around you, surrounds you, all of a sudden the people interacting with you is different, right? Because they're seeing a different version of yourself. It's subtle, but it's enough to notice that difference. We all pick up on it. We all have seen people with certain body postures or bad language or even just the energy around them, just like, ah, I don't want to engage with this person. Right? And sometimes it's just like, you know, and I know this for a fact, because I know I have this sometimes, is that it's not that I'm not engaging. Sometimes I just, I don't know, maybe I'm shy. Maybe I'm like, don't want to talk to anybody or I'm just not afraid. So then if I go into a bit of a shell and then people think like, oh, he's just an ass or he just doesn't want to engage, right?

Hmm.

But that's not true, that's not what's internal, but my face shows that, right? And so it's the wrong assumption, but I put myself in that position because of the identity I have within myself.

Yep. Yep. Yeah. And I love that what if scenario for that, for that situation. And a lot of the times I've played that what if game as well, and with other people that I work with as well, where I'd say, okay, if you normally do life this way, what would happen if you did it another way? So if you went to the party, and you were always the person who was the center of attention, what would happen if you stood back a little bit? How would that change a little bit? How would that

Hmm.

change the experiences? How would that change people's interactions with you? And also, what decisions would you make differently if you're one version of yourself to another? It's not necessarily being, you know, basically changing your spots and not being authentic. That's not what I'm saying. It's just that sometimes if you feel that something is a challenge to you and you step up to the plate and you shy away from it, it's about leaning into your own brilliance and claiming that. Because a lot of, this is what I've learned sometimes is There are a lot of great philanthropists and great people out there doing great things. But I really, I personally believe on merit and I believe that you only show you how good you are when you can perform at your highest level. And sometimes it's not just the technical capacity of it. It's you need to elevate something about your beliefs, your actions, your habits, your routines, your skills to elevate you to get to the next level. So that you are. acknowledged and seen if that's what you want to do. Because people can't always be looking for talent. Sometimes you've got to claim it. Sometimes you've got to step up and own your own brilliance for things to change and happen. Because you can't keep doing the same thing and expecting different outcomes. You've just basically sometimes got to change yourself. And in changing yourself, you will quite often change your reality and your circumstances.

And the thing is, is that it's not just about, you know, your ability to achieve your goals. It's about actually about the relationships and you have with people by changing your identity. Like if you're in a certain, like it affects like your partner, it affects your relationship with friends. You know, if you're only, if you only have a certain type of identity within yourself, you're not going to expand that. Whereas if you, what if you change your identity to shift it and upgrade it, all of a sudden like you're gonna attract different people in your life. You know, sometimes like, I know, I remember when I was a kid during high school, I was a nerdy looking kid. Like, trust me, I had four, I have glasses, I was four eyes, like I'm talking thick glasses, right? I'm pretty nearsighted. And I wasn't dressed well. My mom, my parents didn't dress me. They didn't know anything about fashion. Everything was all baggy and just overdressed and it just didn't fit. Like they just bought whatever the cheapest. Yeah, true. But it would, but the, true.

But that was also the style too back then too, the MC Hammer period. I'm just gonna try and cut you some slack here, Loris.

True, but that's the problem. It wasn't like baggy, but it wasn't in style. Do you know what I mean? So that's it's almost like Yeah, and it's like I was like the nerdy kid that wasn't That smart, you know, so like I was smart enough, but not like, you know But I look like a nerd and so I didn't even get that the The accolades for that. But anyway, so, you know, but I remember

Okay, got it, got it. Okay. Right style, wrong era.

I really had this serious talk with myself. It's kind of weird. I don't know where this came from, the sense of confidence, but I remember the teenager, I didn't get that. I didn't date until, my first girlfriend was like, I was not until I was 16, right? And I remember thinking to myself, there was parts of my life where I was going like, this is never gonna happen. I was very attracted to girls and I'm like, this is never gonna happen. This is just, it's not, but then there's also the other side of me. I'm like, wait a second. I got value. Like I know I have value. Maybe I don't have the looks value. I don't have that attracted physical attraction value, but I know I have value. And I remember having this self talk. I'm like, I just gotta trust that there'll be one beautiful woman that will just fall in love with that, right? They might not like my exterior, but they will trust that they will fall in love with the personality and the person that I actually am. Now, I... I didn't have to believe that because that was definitely not, I didn't have to, right? So I'm using this as an example. I don't think I ever told this story live anyways in a recorded public, but the thing is that if I didn't, I most likely would have settled for whatever that was, whatever settling means at that time. And I would have confirmed. my maybe suspicion at the time if I didn't change that identity with myself. And then that would have been reinforced. And who knows? Would I be still here talking to you? Right? I don't know. I don't think so. Right? And so I think that there was this, I remember I was just holding on. I'm like, just trust that it will come one day, that someone will love me for who I am. Yeah, sure enough. Like, obviously, you know, this, this is what you see now. It's mostly an upgrade because of Karen's handpicked

Yeah.

wardrobes and style over time. But yeah, it took time, right? And, but that's an example of how important sometimes your identity is in identifying your true identity and again, software that you can upgrade that changes not only your life, but it changes other people's lives and the people surrounding you. And so that's why it's so important. It's not just about achieving your goals, it's about how you interact and you gain a totally different experience.

Yeah, you know, that's a beautiful story, Lawrence. And, you know, even from our first recording, we both really, we're both very clear on the role our respective partners play in, in our fulfillment and our joy and our ultimate level of success. And by success, I mean, that the biggest victory I've ever had is finding someone who, like you said, loves me for who I am. and who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. So without question, that's the best connection, association, return on any investment of time and energy effort I've ever made without doubt. And it was really, you know, nice to hear that when someone can actually, because there's a level of opening yourself up and I can really sense that. And I'm sure anybody listening would suddenly go, really what Lawrence is really about by sharing that story. And that will endear people to you as a result of that. So that's really fascinating. And as you were saying that, I'm reminded of Brenda Bashard, who's in the personal growth space saying, four things to change into your life. One of two things has to happen. Either someone has to come into your life or something has to come out of you, right? Now you highlighted the beautiful part of Karen coming into your life, which-

Hmm

created a ripple effect of all these great changes and improvements in self, et cetera, which then perhaps allowed you to then elevate to bring out that party new that allowed you fulfill that. And so I refer to that quote regularly because a lot of the times people are often waiting for something to change and that may be someone. Or it may be something within themselves that says, hey, you can't do this anymore. You deserve more than this. You're worth, you're worthy of this. You deserve better. And that self-talk may be enough to elevate them to then meet that other person who will then help them sort of piggyback onto that and get that ultimate outcome as well.

Yeah, it's hard. It's hard work. Like you're alone because you're basically in your own head and you have no one to bounce those ideas off of. No one to rally in your corner. No one to spur you on to continue to have those thoughts. So it takes, you're in a dark place in a sense. Not like necessarily dark because it's negative talk. I'm talking about dark place because you're all alone in those thoughts, which means like,

Hmm, yeah, yeah. Yep.

So for you to and when everything else on the physical world or the outside world is telling you otherwise, like you have to hold strong to the narrative of whatever you want to believe in, which is very, very difficult. And so that's the challenge that we all face in those moments. So I think that's the challenge. And I think that's the challenge that we all face in those moments. And I think that's the challenge that we all face in those moments. And I think that's the challenge that we all face And it's not moments, it's actually through a lifetime. So it, but it's again, like I'm just reinforcing the idea how this conversation around identity continues over and over again. I think of it like a dragon that you have to slay every single morning. You know, this dragon, the dragon is the voice of deceit, the voice of, you know, trying to protect you, the voice that trying to put you down and to keep you in your comfort zone.

Yep.

And you got to wake up every day, take out your sword and just kill it. And the problem is like a freaking video game. It comes back the next day. And that, and that's the challenge you have to face. Right. And you're, it's a, it's a very lonely battle and some days you win and some days you don't. And so that's the, that's, I just want to remind people that it's not like, you know, all of a sudden like here, you listen to these two guys talk and it's like, Oh, they don't have problems. No, we have problems every day. You know, and we try to share some of them here so that you are, you know, you're

Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Just know that you're brothers and sisters in part of this journey.

Yeah. And we, and what a lot of people, we've made a shadow before we, we almost do a little download before we start recording. It's like, okay. And it's almost like he's what's going on is whatever, just clear it, just park it so that we can, can come into it from the perspective of, okay. Yep. Cause we're human as well. We just have our challenges and the likes. And you know, when you're talking about slaying the dragon Lawrence, I can really relate to that because that, that helps. And another analogy that works well for me, perhaps, You know, back, back when I used to go to hairdressers and barbers, well, there's probably more barbers now than, but hairdressers, you know, when you've got a really short haircut and then you decide, no, stuff it, I'm going to go long and when it's short, it's good. It's an identity of short hair. And when you get to long hair, it's really good. But in that middle stage, it's just like, it's not short. It's just that awkward weirdness. That's a lot of the times what an identity upgrade can be like, because

Awareness. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, you just gotta make a choice though. You gotta go one way or the other. Yeah.

You got to do, you got to go, am I going short? Or am I going long? If I'm going to go long, I've got to see it out. But that middle, that middle between that little, this is no man's land. And I'm just basically just confused and doubt and there's uncertainty. And what am I thinking? And I'm second guessing myself. You take that out of here and put it in any scenario, friendships, business, new skills, whatever you're going through that period of suck that is just going to challenge you. And that you'll have to, as you said, keep slowing that dragon, but it's going to basically come and qualify you as to why do you want long hair? Really? What's that going to achieve? Well, it was, you know, it's either one or the other. So I know I'm being light hearted with that, but it's an example that's actually quite practical and it's actually what happens in a lot of areas. Yep.

Yeah, for very important because I think it keeps us on our toes. And at the end of the day, and you know, I'm reminded that, you know, we only have one life to live, and we got to live it. And the only way to live it is to change your experience. And the only way you change your experience is change your identity, or upgrade your identity. So you actually get a different viewpoint. Otherwise, if you live the same identity, you're going to get the same experience over and over again. So you have to kind of see what what's out there. I'm not saying I have it all figured out because I don't. But I do know that, you know, I need to kind of upgrade. And this one of the reasons why we moved, right, Jim? So we moved because we needed an upgrade of our experience and we had to upgrade that identity. And now, you know, at some point or another, we're gonna be Europeans. And you know, I don't know how long that's gonna take, but you know, being a Canadian, being an Australian, and hopefully one day I'm gonna call myself an European. So like, and then I'll have an identity crisis because my daughter asked me the other day, and like, you know, when people ask you, you're like, well, who do you identify as? I'm like, I have no idea. I always like, you know, my Canadians would say, you should be called Canadian because you were born in Canada, but like.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Eh, eh.

I don't know, I live almost just as long in Australia than I did in Canada, so I kind of lean towards being an Australian, but then my Australian people are like, well, you don't actually have that accent and you're not from there, so I'm kind of like, you know, but then that's based on other people's opinion. I know who I am, like I'm Australian, who happens to be Canadian at the same time, and that's who I am. I don't need to justify it to anybody else, but that's how I would answer that question. And so, but if you're not comfortable with that, you're gonna get tossed around and someone's gonna create an identity for you.

Yeah.

And that's why the power of this, what we're talking about is that you have to own your identity. Not only just upgrade, of course, that's what you need to do, but you need to own it. Owning who you are, what you stand for, you're the only person who can dictate that. Forget the outside world, forget how people put you in a box because you don't have to be in that box. You choose to let them put you in the box so you gotta get out of it if that's the situation that you're in. But that's your responsibility and no one's gonna rescue you unless you do something about it.

Yeah, my friends back in Australia refer me now, referred to me now as the Spaniard because I've been out in Spain for a while. And I just love, I identify as an international spy who is systematically building up passports and identities throughout the world. I just love that. And, and, you know, but then we'll kind of say, listen to your kid and yourself. But I don't like that. I like the identity of that and I'm going to run with it because I am happy with it. And I just, I don't like being boxed in as one thing or another. I, I love.

Yes, passports.

not so much the international man of mystery, but I just love variation. I love variety. I love change. And so consequently, yeah. So now my friends refer to me affectionately as the Spaniard. And if I ever moved to another place, then they'd refer to me as that. And it's all ingest and I would laugh at it. But at each time I would upgrade my identity to take in whatever I'm doing next. So that's why I look at it.

Yeah. Yeah. I think identity is also too, it's how you frame it to, for, to be memorable, right? Because if you're same as everybody else, then you're not memorable. But by you identifying yourself as a Spaniard to a Spaniard or someone who's actually even not a Spaniard, you'd be like, wait a second, that does not compute. Like you don't look Spaniard, you don't speak Spaniard, you don't have an accent. Like what are you talking about? And so, but it sticks in people's minds. Right? I mean, like I said, I was at this event and you know, obviously the go, you know, it's a global event. So people from all around the world were there. And obviously the first question you're gonna ask is like, where are you from? I'm like, I'm from Portugal. That doesn't compute most people's head. Like how is an Asian being in Portugal and like, and you speak perfect English like with a Canadian accent, like it just, it boggles their minds, right? No different than when I used to go to Bali a lot and the Balinese taxi drivers always goes, oh, so where are you from? I'm like, Australia. No, no, where are you really from? I'm like, okay, Canada.

With a Canadian accent.

No, no, where are you really from? That what they want to know is like I'm Chinese, right? Not Indonesian, but like, I know that that's what we want, but I play a game with them because it's memorable. It sticks in them and that's the thing. Yeah, it's great. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I love that game too. I love that game too. Yeah. I mess with people too. I said, what do you do? I said, I'm actually a jockey. They go, what? What are you talking about? No, I identify as a jockey. Yeah. But unfortunately, my reality and my external reality and nothing and the fact that I have allergies to horses doesn't stop. True story. Like I get near...

You identify as a jockey, do you?

courses and I start sneezing. So it couldn't be any further from reality, but I just mess with people and I basically say, that's what I am. And, you know, we just have a bit of a chuckle about that as well. So Lawrence, I think, I think there's so much we could probably keep going on about identity, but I think if there were one or two things that we'd leave people with, that would be important for them to take into.

Yeah.

I guess the next version of themselves that may help them achieve some things that they may have been either struggling with or they're adapting to really well, but they're not feeling comfortable in that level of success. What would some things be that you could...

Yeah, I can think of a couple things I'll summarize and let you summarize. One, number one is like I said, I mentioned over and over again in this podcast, which is own your identity, figure out who you are, what that means, but at the same time, don't stay there. So what I mean by that is that you have to really challenge yourself and go, is that current identity you have right now going to help you achieve the goals that you want to achieve and have dreamed the dreams that you want to dream and turn those dreams into reality? And the most likely answer to that is, I can guarantee you, is probably no. So therefore, what you need to really ask is, what is the future version of me? What's the future version, the future identity that I need to lean into, and so that I can actually learn to bridge that gap. And once you've learned to bridge that gap, then you actually found, you know, already partway there to achieving your goals. And I think that's super important. And I think the last thing I would say is that you need to continually evolve your identity over and over again, because you don't want to be put into a situation where you are no longer that identity. no longer that person, then what are you left with? I came across this when I stopped practicing. And could I still be identified as a chiropractor? I kept it on for five more years in terms of my license. And when it finally said no more, I'm gonna give up my license, there was a part of me just go, oh, I can't call myself a doctor anymore. I can't call myself a chiropractor. I'm always calling myself a chiropractor, but legally I couldn't do it. And there was a part of me just felt

Yeah.

like it was like not a punch in the stomach, but I was like, Ooh, there's, there's like a reality hit me and went, Oh, but, and so it, we all feel that we all feel that to some degree at some point when you know, you're no longer a father or you no longer, you know, cause you kids move on. Well, you're always a father actually, one more thing, but certain things in transitioning in your life that you no longer the boss and you no longer whatever. And that if you don't continue to upgrade your identity, you could be stuck in that place of the feeling lost and you don't know what happened.

Hmm. Yep. Yeah. I think, and I think for me just in, in closing out is the biggest and quickest way that I've found that helps people grow into that identity is the law of proximity. And by that, we mean that if you're aspiring to buy a house, drive a particular kind of car, go on a particular holiday, the more neuro associations we, you have with that experience, the closer and

Hmm.

it will feel to reality. So I always encourage people to, you know, if they're feeling scarce and they wanna feel more abundant, I always invite them to go to the most expensive hotel in their city, sit and order a coffee and just sit in the lounge for a while and just take in the energy of what it would feel like. Go and test drive that car so that you feel closer to that and it doesn't feel so separate from you. Go to open houses and... view them, walk through, imagine yourself in there. And imagine, you know, if I was, you know, what type of person would I need to be to afford this type of home and this environment? And something magical happens because it triggers the imagination and the possibility thinking in your brain that allows you to open up and think in a different reality, a different world. So to me, I love playing those type of. roles in games. I encourage him at all. I do it all regularly myself and it just helps me elevate and get to the identity of who I need to be much faster than just grunt work sometimes.

Yeah. And all that would you said is free, you know, and the next step is to actually do one of those things like go rent a car that of your dreams. Like you don't have to commit to buying it. He's renting it, you know, and live that, you know, go to that hotel for one night. Even like I remember doing that in Bali. I was like, I couldn't I can't afford this, but I'm gonna go three nights. I'm just gonna just do it splurge it and just so I know what it feels like get a taste and then man, I couldn't like I was like, Oh, this is what it feels like.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah, just get a taste. Yeah.

You know, one more, I'll leave you one more thing. It's in your change in financial identities. Like I, in the past, uh, for a long time, for probably about close to 15, 20 years, um, I put like a hundred dollar us dollar bill in my wallet, hidden in a pocket, just to know that I always had cash. I always had money, you know, and it's just, it's a smaller identity shift to say like, I'm never poor and it's like, it's.

Yeah. Yeah.

it's probably still there in my wallet because it's a hidden thing. But it's like knowing that I always have cash. I'm never, and it just shift that mentality of like wealth and abundance. But those are small things that can shift and can shape you and makes, it allows you to make certain decisions that you normally would make if you were going coming from a scarcity identity. So I hope this has been valuable to you. I think that was a tremendous, a lot of tips and tools and a lot of things to reflect upon. And I think this is a game changer for you if you actually take some of the action steps, even some of it.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

So I hope you enjoyed this podcast episode and we'll see you on the next episode, but please share this with amongst your friends if you feel like they need to upgrade their identity. We'll talk to you soon.