The Importance of Knowing Thyself

So guys, welcome to Wabi Sabi. We've been chatting on the background. I'm like, we are missing out on recording this stuff and we gotta start pressing record and just talk because you just missed out the best stuff. Anyways, welcome guys to another episode of Wabi Sabi. We've been back for a couple weeks. We've been away and Jim and I both have been away doing our stuff and then I'm just watching, Jim. There's so much stuff. You went back to your homeland, you're a four-year father, Shram. You went back to the village and man, there's some, I am sure.

Hehehe Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, you were saying, what kind of topic are we gonna talk about? I'm like, Jim, there's gotta be some stories in there that insights, knowing you, there's gotta be some insights that we can dive deep into. So you're gonna have to choose one here, Jim. One topic that you, that some of the insight that you found when you went back to your dad's village, old village, and I love to dive into, you know, some of the story there and what some of the insights you came back with, because you're always so-

Okay, alright. Yep. All right. Let's do that. So, uh, and then we'll revisit what we were talking about just before we started recording as well too, cause it was hilarious. So yeah, I, I last week I was actually in my dad's, visited my dad's village and how it came about was my cousins from Australia were visiting and they said, listen, we're flying over from Australia. You're like a hop step and jump away from Greece now. How would you like come over and just catch up with us for a week while we're here? And I said, sure. No worries. I, cause you can do that now. could previously do that. So I went to my dad's village, the village of Lesvos, and Lesvos is the third largest island in Greece. And it's three hours away from Barcelona all up. And it was an amazing experience because I hadn't been there for 43 years. And my dad came from a village and now there's only 300 people left that lived in the village. And it's a beautiful old

Hmm.

stereotypical village, stone houses, they're wonderful. And my dad and his father used to build these stone houses that were just like amazing to look at. But if you've ever watched the movie, The Truman Show, and Jim Carrey's in that, and he's playing where he is, and you've got all these actors around him, that's what my experience was like. People knew about me. They knew everything about me and I didn't know them. I walked down the street of this little town and the irony, this is what I want to talk about today is just how small that was. And I, and I was carrying Elon Musk's book with me because I was thought I'm going to walk down to the cafe and read it. So here, that book, that's the one Elon Musk's book, right? So we're both reading it at the same time, Lawrence. And so I'm walking down to the cafe.

Hmm. Mm. Hahaha.

And the irony of this really struck me. Here I am in a little village of 300 people tops. I'm carrying a book with me that I'm gonna read about multi-planetary living from one of the biggest visionaries of our time. And it was just, it was very surreal. You know, it was very surreal for me because I'm walking down the street and people are saying, hi Jim, great to see you, great to have you back in town. How'd you sleep? And I'm like...

Hmm.

Who the heck are you? I had no idea who you are, but they knew everything about me. So that was really, really bizarre. So I want to open this up and expand on this because there's so many different directions we can go, but I just wanted to plant that as a seed of what we could talk about today.

Well, you know, that happens to me every time I walk into any city, like people just know me and they just go like, I'm just joking. I'm absolutely joking. I am not a rock star. But I want to first ask a couple things. I've had that similar experience when I was a kid, but we'll kind of come back to that maybe in a second. We'll just sort of pin on that. Tell me, why do you think, you know, there are only 300 people left? Like, what was it like 40 years ago? I know you probably don't have the exact stats, but like

I'm sorry. Yeah. Yep.

I would imagine was a lot more than 300 and was that, you know, and what has happened to the city since then.

Yeah, it was never like, it's a beautiful idyllic town. There's not that it was probably at most, it would have been say a thousand people in this specific town. And within a kilometer, there was another town. So the thing, the towns, it's not like the urbanization, urban sprawl that happens where you've got these pockets and they're connected. They still have maintained this villagey feel. So even though my dad's village is 300 people,

Hmm.

within a kilometer and a half, there's another town and there's a reproduction of that whole thing. So that's what that is. So, well, what's really fascinating is that they're very isolated. So, yes, they've got internet and yes, they've got a whole lot of modern sort of features, but the mindset is just very, it still struck me as just so, this is, you know, the old blokes get up and play cards at the cafe That's really what they're doing now. You know, they're not, they haven't really changed much. It's not a progressive town, if that makes sense. And that's what really struck me. I was like, what was really emphatic for me and really surreal, I guess for me was, I visualized what my dad would have been like 40, sorry, would have been 60 years ago and saying, if I don't get out of here, I can't change the circumstances of my life.

Hmm. Yeah.

Right. It would have been probably 75 years ago. And so he made the decision to leave that town and people still remember him. You know, they go, Oh, you're, you're George's kid. Um, yeah, he used to be this in this, but they haven't changed in a lot of ways. Time almost stood still in this town and yet the whole world went out there. So it really embraced everything that we've talked about in our podcast in the last 12 months or so, where we're talking about the courage to take that step and move on.

Hmm.

And it was one of those scenarios where I got an insight into what would have happened if you'd stayed. And now I'm the product of someone who decided to leave.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, we definitely talked a lot about the sliding door moments and actually been thinking about that today. If of all days, I was just something kind of came up and I was just thinking about like, you know, how my life would have turned out if I just didn't did X or what happened if you know, something else, you know, if I made certain decisions and you know, it's not making it I want to be very clear and I think this is what you're saying, which is like there's no right or wrong. Like it's not like that people that stayed is wrong and the people who left is right. It's not what you're saying. It's just more that it's choices. And these choices that people make is determined, that determines the future and where it kind of lands. And I was in Croatia, obviously, a couple of, sorry, a couple of months ago, and I remember thinking we were actually in, we were eating dinner one night, a group of us, like there's 40 of us, and we ate dinner at this UNESCO site of a village that's been abandoned. Like, so the whole village is abandoned. It was like, no one's there, and we had to walk through these.

Yeah. Hmm.

got dropped off and walked up to this restaurant. And so this couple decided to make this UNESCO village, used to be one of their villages, that no one lives there anymore and it's protected. And they decided to open a restaurant for special occasions. And that's where we were. It was so unique and raw and also very different because there was literally no one there. It's for us 40 people guests and the chef and obviously the waiters and waitresses. So. And I thought that was really interesting. And it reminded me of sort of thinking about what you're going through, what you went through in terms of how a thriving village in certain times have then now, not to window, well, don't windows and numbers in terms of getting to a place where it no longer serves those, the current circumstances maybe of those certain people. When obviously people will stay, they say they can choose to stay and live the current. lifestyle and there's nothing wrong with that. But for certain people, they go, you know what, progressing as the world is moving in a certain direction, they're making a choice that go, if we don't want to remain in the current circumstances or live in the current circumstances, when we want to change that, we have to make a different choice. Rightly or wrongly, that's sort of where they're at. And I think that's really interesting to kind of see that from that perspective. And

Yeah.

I'd imagine that's sort of what's happening. Like it's, it's that progressiveness of change that all of us are forced to kind of contend with, like we are, I think we're in an age of right now for one of the things that is rapidly changing is AI, you know, whether you like it or not, it is going to progressively change how fundamentally, how we function, how we operate and how we learn and how we, you know, come together as, as a, as a human race and the choice is that, you know, you have a choice to either.

Yep.

ignore it, to fight against it, or you have a choice to embrace it, right? And those are all choices. We have no idea what the future is going to hold, but it's a choice. I think, you know, if you apply this whole analogy of the village and how it used to be and where it is now, we can apply that in various parts of our lives. You can apply that to relationships, right? If you don't cultivate your relationship, you don't want to change and evolve in your relationships with your partner.

Correct. Yeah, exactly.

it's going to, you can either be exactly the same how it was, or you can go, well, it could be better even after 25 years.

Yeah, yeah, totally. And that's really what I kept having those, those epiphanies, those realizations, because I was sitting in, like, I, there's a couple of houses for sale in the village. And honestly, anywhere else in the world, it would be like a five bedroom mansion that you could probably pick up for less than 80, 90,000 euro. And if that was the, the dream and the epitome, then it's there. But that for me wasn't enough. But for the people who are there, who've made a conscious decision that this is what I'm aspiring to, they're happy as a pig in mud. And so what it really caused for me was to really assess myself and go, what is it that you're looking for? What is it that you're looking for? Because for other people's model of world, it's right here. And you didn't have to go to the other side of the world and travel and do all these things, because it's here.

Hmm.

And it made me realise, who's right, who's wrong? And what's our ultimate objective? What do we do, what do we do? And to me, that would be, I would live in the lap of luxury if I was content in my own mind about staying there, and yet that's not what I want.

Hmm.

So that was, it made me appreciate the decisions and the choices that we all have to make sometimes to change, you know.

Yeah, and I think it's really, I find it's really challenging, to be honest with you, to live a life like that because you are constantly worrying about, well at least, you know, most of us, I mean, I am guilty to a certain degree is that I'm constantly worried about what other people think of the choices I make, you know, what that will look like. And we're kind of looking for like social clout, you know, or social luxury, I guess, in a way.

Hmm. Yep.

And we're kind of looking for like, if I did this, what would I look like? What would how people would perceive me in a certain way? And that could be really dangerous game, you know? And because we're not really being self-reflective, we're not really thinking for ourselves to going, well, what do I really want? Versus about, you know, we're more caring about what other people perceive what I should be doing, versus about what I really want. And I think that- That's a very hard thing for most people. And I think what you're saying is putting pause on that at any given moment to really ask, what are you doing all this for? And more importantly, are you on track? Do you want this? And the answer has to come from within rather than coming from a point of, will I look good?

Hmm. Yeah, yeah, I get that. That makes a lot of sense. And interestingly, you know, on the, on the, I flew from the Island back to Athens. I was, I had to stop over in Athens for quite a while. I'm caught up with a couple of cousins of mine who live there, who came in, knew that I was there and they said, listen, we're going to catch up with you. And they're a little bit older than I am. They're probably closer to quote unquote retirement age. And they said, so, so when you buying a place in the village, I said, well, I saw a place, but I'm not really. And it was really, this is the part that really left me. They left after the conversation. I sat with her for ages and they said, well, you know, what more do you still want to do? I'm like, dude, I'm nearly 55. I've still got my whole life ahead of me. I'm not ready to just cash in my chips and go fishing because if every day, and let me make it really clear, if you love fishing and that's your thing, where I spent the week would be phenomenal, but sometimes it's not geography that's.

Yeah.

You know, quite often you'll, we're caught in the trap of thinking that if I just move somewhere, that'll solve all the issues. And you could be living in paradise or what other people completely in paradise, you know, your place in Sydney, where I was living in Melbourne, that they're, they're like, basically end goals for a lot of people. And yet we were both there. And then how we find ourselves the other side of the world going, I had it, it was awesome. I appreciated it, but that's not the end game. There was more to it.

Yep.

So that's, it left me in that, it kind of went, I went down the rabbit hole, if that makes sense, of like, what am I really after? What am I really trying to do?

Yeah, yeah. You know, I had a conversation with, I don't think my brother will be listening. So that's okay. So I had a conversation with my brother, um, several months ago, a couple of months ago when I saw him and I'm a couple of years older than him. And he, you know, he's a teacher. And so I said, you know, what, what's, you know, like life and just asking him like, what's going on. And, you know, what's the future hold. And he's like, yeah, well, I'm, you know, you know, I'm a teacher to don't looking forward to retirement. I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? And it's like, well, I'm, you know, I'll get my pension and. I don't know, let's say, I don't know, eight years or something, or nine years. I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, are you, like, first of all, I have to go, am I that old? Like, am I, like, first of all, I'm older than you and you're thinking more time than eight years. I'm like, holy crap, am I that old? Like, am I miscalculating, did I miss something? And sure, part of me just goes, okay, well, maybe I am closer to retirement than I'm not, from when I started, but I was like, well, wait a second, well, then I have to go, what does retirement mean, you know?

Yeah. Yep.

And so anyway, so that went down a rabbit hole of thoughts. But then the second of all, I'm like, whoa, okay. So, and this is like no judgment on a brother. Honestly, I think it's awesome that he's like thinking like, okay, I got eight more years on the clock or nine years on the clock or whatever it was. And I go, that's when he's gonna retire because that's when his pension kicks in and he'll just live off his pension and he's gonna have a great life. I'm like, man, like he said, like he is, he knows what he wants and that's what he's gonna go after. And for me, I was like, I think that obviously I have no pension.

Yep.

because we're entrepreneurs, we don't get pensions. You know, we're self-sufficient. And so it just really made me, as an eye-opener, which is what you're saying, it's like, yeah, there's so much more to do. Like, I'm just getting started, you know? Sure, I'm not, like, it's not my first rodeo, it's not my second rodeo, but it's like, I still got a lot of time and energy to do something about this. What does that look like? And I don't know what that is yet, but I'm still going for it, and I'm still, you know, taking it along. And it was a really interesting thought process that he put me through.

Hmm. Yep. it.

to realize in perspective.

Yeah. And it's a values, um, cool, you know, like, so what your brother, what my cousins prioritize and value and look and aspire to is basically consistent with their value structure. And, and for me, if I was looking for just security, like I've moved around quite a bit, just like you have in different places, different parts of the country overseas, if I was content, I wouldn't have done all that. All right. And so, yeah.

Yes. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Like why, why go through all the heartaches and the challenges and all that stuff.

And, and yeah, and, and everybody looks at them and go, Hey, it's really exciting. And it is, don't get me wrong, but there's also a restlessness that builds up that you wish you could just tame it. I quite often have said, I wish I could not so much be satisfied, but I wish I could actually go, this is it. This is like, that's it. That's what, and, but I know that's not within my character. That's not within my, because I believe in continuing improving. And so I think that's what this highlighted for me. to me was the paradoxes between age and also objectives. And so age is a number, retirement is a number. There's people who are very productive and still producing and expanding themselves in their 80s and 90s. I want to be like that. That's just my aspiration. That's my goal. And yet other people don't have that one. And I need to appreciate that and enjoy it. But by the same token, my uncle who's 96 years old

Hmm

He lives in the town when I said, you know, there's my dad's town. My uncle lives one town away, which is a kilometer and a half away. And for him to get to his house, he's got to walk a kilometer uphill on these stone paved, um, roads, cobblestone. And when they wet, they're as slippery as all get out. And he's got a cane and he walks up and I'm walking behind him. I'm going, I can't believe you're doing that, but he's just sharp as a tack. And so every day.

Yeah.

He refuses to have anybody deliver stuff to him. He's gonna do the trek, the one case trek up hill, which is at least a 30, 35 degree hill, which is no main hill to be going up there when you're 96. And yet when he finally gets down, we sit down, we have a cup of coffee together in a cafe, he is razor sharp. And so he's still doing hard things amongst being retired. But to me, a lot of the guys who, he's talking to, they cashed out and checked out in their 50s and 60s and he runs rings around them.

Yeah, it's so interesting. I mean, in Portugal, one of the things I remember a couple of times have happened to me where like you have an old Portuguese lady and they are grocery shopping and they are just piling up, you know, like carrying these bags and they're, you know, loading up the car and they've got to carry those grocery bags into the car, you know, in Australia, like a typical thing. I mean, I'm going to go, I'm going to go help. Like, let me just help you like lift it. I've done this twice at least where I go, you know, like signaling as best as I can from Portuguese, I'm like, excuse me, like, do you want some help? Right, right, Pudge. And they're like, no, no. You know, like, no, I got it, I got it. It's almost like, no, like, why are you even asking? Like, I don't look disabled, I don't look, and it's such a different, it's like a different mentality. And I was like, wow, like, they're, and the amount of like elderly people that walk, and actually I was saying one Airbnb, I don't know if I told you that story, like there was one Airbnb at,

Yep. Yeah.

It was a two story thing, so I was overlooking their backyard. And once in a while I start to see what the, you know, this old lady comes in, she must have been 70, 80 years old, right? Actually, probably in her 80s, right? And she is literally going out there every day, right? Washing clothes by hand. She has one of those old, like, you know, wooden things and then she's just scrubbing it, like, you know, the dirt. I was like, oh, and my wife's like, oh, poor lady.

Yep.

Should we just go and offer like a washing machine? You know, I think that they'll refuse, right? Cause that's how they done things. And like the garden's like a rock garden. She's going out there with an axe and a shovel, like just chipping away in this rock garden. I'm like, my God, that is so amazing to watch because I was like, you know, like too, just admirable to be able to be so functional and still so independent at that age. It's like, wow.

Mmm. Yep. Yep.

I want to make sure I'm like that, you know, when I'm older. And it's something to aspire to.

And I got to understand a lot about myself through my genealogy and my, my family, because they are still very stoic and they're, they're stubborn. And there's a stubborn streak about them. And they, they just, they're built for work. And, and, and I, and I understood myself more to go, okay, I understand that now, but if I need to change it, I need to break the cycle. And so this is the, you know, the, I'm the generation that changes and breaks that cycle, not for.

Hmm. Hmm

laziness, but from a point of view of just going, dude, you're just running yourself into the ground is not a great sustainable action. So they're still very active in their 80s and 90s, but that you can look, they're worn out. They're worn out. They've been worn out for a long time. And I don't want that. You know, I want to be able to be productive. And so that's why we make decisions along the way. And yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. find appreciation in that, right? Is to be able to work, still have the ability to do hard things, but also find the appreciation to enjoy the fruits of the labor that you actually produced.

Correct. Yeah. So that was the one. And also appreciate the wins and the milestones, because I think that's the part of the thing that I've learned as well too, is that sometimes, and we might have talked about it, people achieve great things, but they don't have any reference for how you can enjoy that. They've been so conditioned to the box of you just work and work and work and work and work and work, but there's no reward. There's very little reward that I can tangibly see. hey, I educated my kids and that's my reward. And there's an intrinsic reward that they're carrying, but it's not like something else. And that's what contrasted me with in reading Elon Musk's book where it's just, he's a guy who's driven, who has changed and there's no spoiler alerts. It's just, he went down one path now. He's so intrinsically motivated to fulfill his vision that he's, you know, I've sold off the mansions. I've done all that. That's not as important to him anymore. This is the vision. And, and I, I oscillated between these two things for a week where I was like, this is one extreme, that's the other extreme. Where do I sit in this? What can I learn from this? You know, and, and you're right. It applies to so many other areas of our lives.

Oh, know thyself is the critical thing here is to be able to understand what your own values are. And this is like when we, you know, going back to my brother, the story of my brother, it's like, it's like I said, I'm really making it not wrong. I think it's great, you know, to know exactly what you want and what you desire and being able to go after it. And like, that's the goal. And that's just, there's nothing wrong with that. And I think I totally admire to it. And, but I also recognize that to me, that's not what I want. That's not within my value system. And I think I need to honor that. I'm not going to put guilt on myself.

Yeah.

right, which I could easily do to say, Oh, maybe I'm striving too hard. Maybe I'm trying too hard. It's like, no, like, this just, you just know when it doesn't feel right. You know, you just know when you approach something that this doesn't feel right, like, I meant for more. And I think people watching or listening to this podcast, are typical people that you know, and they're all but they're typically they're, they want to do more, they want to thrive for bigger things. And they just may not know what it is. And so this is like going through the path of like, understanding that this is an okay path. This is what people go through. You don't have to have all the answers, but you just knowing that there's something out there and you giving it a go, giving it a shot and just trying things no matter what age or what type of wherever you are in the world and taking those chances, that's the thing we're talking about.

Yeah, and for me, I think this is the part that I, I guess that was the catalyst for the discussion. The real discussion now would be, I would imagine, okay, so where in our lives are we refusing to change? And where are the parts where we're maintaining the sameness and not creating, coming, being dynamic and adapting to the times? Not right or wrong, but there was definitely people, I walked into some places. And they haven't seen an upgrade since 1945. You know, and so that, that was the message I turned was, okay, where are you not progressing and adapting, not value structures, not fulfillment, but there's technologies, you know, there's a lady who, whose house I went into, he's got a tiny little stove and it's like, the stove is like 45 centimeters tall and you've got a band right over it. And I'm like, surely after all this time. There's innovations, there's improvements. It's not about being lazy, but it's like, you're already doing this, why wouldn't you make that more efficient?

Well, I think it's the attitude of, you know, why fix things if it's not broken kind of attitude, right? And yeah, that's I think we get trapped in that. I think there's a lot of people get trapped in that. It's like, why? Why? Why are we bothering with something where it's worked all these years? And I find that it's I find this more challenging as I get older. So I remember let's just go back about 15 years ago. I remember Damien and I actually were always chatting. We're always talking about the latest iPhone.

Yep.

you know, we're always talking about the latest change. So Damien was my co-host from the Wellness Guys podcast. And I remember like one of the things that we connected was through Apple. And it was like, you know, when every new iteration of the phone's like, oh, did you see like how amazing the new phone technology is? And we kind of like reveled in that. We were always the first one to kind of find out like, what's actually happening and get ready to do it. No, I never lined up, but it's, I wasn't that.

For people who don't know who Damien is, you want to just expand? Yep. Did you line up? Did you line up? No. Okay.

obsessed with it, but I know I was looking and it was funny because I'm remembering this story because I Remember there was a moment in time where like a couple years passed We did this for several years and when his son right started getting a little older and It was I've clearly remember for some reason like the technology like being the first to know what the technology was not as Important to us as much so at that time whereas the Sun was telling the the father, Damien, about the new technology, right? And I'm experiencing that now, where my daughter is telling me, right, you know, Kaia's telling me like, hey dad, did you see this upgrade? Or did you see this thing? And I'm like, I was the one who used to be like on top of that stuff. And now my kids are the one who's telling me. And it's really fascinating because you start to realize like what mattered to you back then.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

is no not necessarily the highest of values anymore. So you're not chasing that anymore. And I wonder like, and I'm just it's a question to you is like, do you think age is part of this process where you start to recognize that, you know, when you're younger, you tend to kind of chase the most immediate thing. And whereas you get a little older, you tend to recognize or maybe you just don't care as much for the latest new thing is no longer applicable, or you're slower to change as you know, as

Mmm.

quickly as you used to.

Yeah, look, I think so. I think as we were younger, we're always looking for expansion in a lot of ways. We're looking for new stuff, either through acquisitions in terms of, you know, how it makes us feel. So you very rarely see 85 year olds lining up outside of Apple for the launch. They'll just, you know, be a little bit more complete and a little bit more patient in that regard. But I don't know, because I think it's a, what I've loved living in Spain, and I'm not sure if you've noticed it too, Lawrence, but they take pride in their dress here. They take pride in an old couple, so there's a beautiful scene where you see a 70, 80 year old couple walking hand in hand, immaculately dressed on a Sunday, and they're going for their Sunday. You've seen that as well, right? And...

Yes. Oh, Karen always makes a comment on how the European just dress so differently. They just like, they are classic. They like men, especially they take the time, you know, young and old. They take the time to, to really appreciate like a nice jacket or a nice pair of pants. Like they're just a certain style, European style, just, just knows how to do it. It's not a t-shirt and shorts kind of thing. It's like, there's definitely a style and it's intention that's there.

And it's classy. Yep. Yeah. No. Yeah, so I definitely know. And I think one of the areas that I found is the clue in terms of whether someone is adapting is in their dress sense. Right. Because you're not going to be an 80 year old wearing 20 year old fashion. But I always say that the ones who I feel are quite up to date and expanding and growing and still wanting to improve are still taking.

Hmm. Yes, yes, true.

And it's not the shallowness of it, but they're still taking pride in their presentation, their appearance. You know, they dress and look exceptionally well. And so to me, that is a clue that, hey, the best of me is not behind me. The best of me is still ahead of me. I may be slower and it might take me a little bit, but hey, this is what I'm proud of. This is what I'm doing. This is what I keep improving. So I see them regularly and I marvel at it and I look at them and say, that's what I want too. in my 70s and 80s, I want to be walking up the street, hand in hand, expanding and growing and traveling and eating and all that, rather than just going, I'm staying in my home, you know, so the challenge will be, how do you keep expanding? How do you keep opening up where there's no real need to do that except for your own fulfillment, personal growth and challenging yourself.

Yeah, I do find like, I do find as I get a little older, the, um, I don't know if it's excitement, but I definitely can't keep up as much. Maybe it's because like there's much more information or more changes or adaptability. Like, you know what I mean? There's so many things that are happening that I just don't have the same bandwidth maybe to absorb the information of change. And like, you know, let's just say, we'll go back to the same example of technology and some things like, Oh, that's cool. But it's like, for me to learn that it's takes so much longer.

Yep. Yep, yep, yep.

than it would have if it was 10 years earlier. I know I'm using this as a total excuse. I'm just, this is just my observation of myself. It's not necessary for everybody else, but I, you know, and I see that's one of my parents, right? It's like my parents, you know, when, you know, when it comes to technology, we all have this experience where they're just not as adaptable as you were, right? And we laugh at that. But I'm starting, I'm...

I get laughed at my kids. Yeah, you'll probably at the brunt of it now, right? Yeah, yeah.

I am starting to be on that end of going, oh my God, I am the, I'm the laughing stock now, not the person who's laughing. And this is what I mean. Like it's like, it's, it happens in every generation. And I'm wondering if it's because we slow down or is it because the information now is processed faster by the younger generation, you know, versus us. It's so fast, right?

Yep. Yeah, the rate of change. Yeah. The rate of change is so, so quick. I mean, we were talking about it before, just before we started recording that I mentioned to you, Hey, Spotify, I've got this ability, you've got this, you can get these extra audio books and you're like, and you're like, that's great. That's awesome. I'll just add them to the pile of ones I haven't already read, listened to already. So there's so much information that these, that this day and age, it's not a lack of information that we have. It's, it's, it's prioritizing, not getting overwhelmed and

No, nope.

And sometimes just closing out the noise of things that aren't really moving you in the direction you want to go, being diligent and disciplined about these are my things, these are my two or three things that I'm going to focus on. So distraction is a bigger problem now than lack of information.

Yeah. Absolutely. I think 20 years ago it was about the information age. Whoever controlled the information wins. But nowadays you have, not only do you have Google, which you have basically unlimited information, you also now have AI, chat, GPT and everything else that helps you interpret some of that information and extract the summary of those information, which is a lot faster. And so now it's about, I always said that it was an information world where I went to an interpretation world where now it's like whoever interprets the information faster. And I think now we're moving. you know, I think now it's like, how do you apply that? Right? It's all about, you know, and it's so different in a world that we living in and, and the challenges that we thought we talked about this audio book thing. And it's like, you know, way we used to, you know, when we, when we were kids, we used to read a book like one page at a time. And then, you know, my generation is like, no, we forget reading. I'm slow. So I'm just going to listen, right? I'm going to listen to this, to the, to the book. And then I figured out that I can actually listen to two times speed so I can actually read a book twice as fast or listen to a book. twice as fast. And now just before the podcast, I was saying to you, no, here's the trick now. You know, it's like, buy the book, buy the audio book, listen to the audio book. My daughter is what my daughter does. She listened to three times speed while she reads the book. And then all of a sudden, like your job is observing information three times faster in audits form and visual form at the same time. It's like, holy crap. Like, you know, and so two things are lessons there. One is like observing information in a different manner.

it right heck.

would like that's just like you don't have to do it this way. But I'm just saying like this is where we're heading. But two is like exactly what you just said. It's about not about trying to read every book that everybody else is reading. It's like reading the book that you need to read, right or gather the information or watch the video that you need to need for the thing that you need to go after right now or towards the goal you what you ever you're trying to achieve or what are you trying to improve on? Like that's the most important thing I do not take for granted for anyone who's actually listening to this right now. You could be listening to any other podcast, you could be using this time to do anything else, watch Netflix or whatever. But no, you chose this time to listen to us, you know, banter and talk about things. I appreciate you. I really do. I really, really appreciate you taking the time and effort to do this. And so what we're trying to do is understand the appreciation of, you know, your time and want to make sure we providing great value to you and great tips and, and helps and hope that these are helpful to you in your life and helping you make better decisions.

Hmm. Hmm?

right? And because there's so much information, it's what you say no to that matters the most.

Yeah. And the coming back to my experience last week, I've on the view that somewhere in the middle is actually a very good, healthy, sustainable place. And not necessarily bang on right in the middle, but you know, I had situations where I'm talking to aunties of mine. And that what's this internet thing they're talking about, you know, they have no idea. And they're like, what is that? And like, I wonder here, I go.

Wait till you tell her about Tinder.

I didn't even get to Tinder, I didn't even get to these date sites. But you can imagine that the whole world was like, what's going on here? And yet I'm reading Elon's book and I'm referencing it because it's just some AI technology and all the things and the platforms. The rate of change is equivalent to my ancestors in a village with what I've got. Now, I feel like I'm them, but to someone who's at the forefront of it.

Yes.

What I've understood is that if it's just technology, you will never be able to know everything about everything. And you'll get to the point where as soon as you learn something, it's been superseded. So there has to be a point of going, how can I use this technology in a healthy, sustainable way? But then also still not miss out the magic moments of sitting down, fishing, catching up with someone at a cafe. And like I've got an uncle who spends... you know, eight months of the year in Greece, he lives in Australia, but he comes in and tens he's got a farm and he just loves it and he lives out remote. He's got a satellite phone and occasionally it works. Occasionally it doesn't. And his kids are just going nuts about dad, we can't access it. We can't reach you. You're 87 years old. You can have a form. We can't get onto you, but he's got technology, but he's at peace. He's happy at peace because he's like, so what's the right answer? You know, like.

Yeah. Yep.

Because we know a lot of people into.

I really think it comes down to no. Yeah, I think it comes down to what you're saying before which is like know thyself knowing yourself. It's really such a important question to ask yourself. Right? Because here's the thing I met someone today like literally a couple hours ago and we're at the barbecue. And he's from the States. He's visiting from the States. And he spends six months of the year in Colorado, in Boulder and the six months of the year on a boat and sailboat. And the assumption is more people like, Oh, okay, so that's great. You know, I spent the summer and a boat and you know, six months in skiing. And I'm like, I don't think he's doing that. And he's like, no, I'm doing summers. I spent bolder summers and I go to, you know, down south into the Virgin Island, you know, to go summer. He's like, he's chasing summer. I'm like, yeah, there's the man who knows what he's doing. He's going for summer, not winter. Why go to the cold, right? And so, and it's interesting, but for some people, like you look at that and go, wow, what a life, right? But I would honestly would say, I would say 90% of you who actually say like, well, what a life. If you did that for a little while, I think you would hate it.

Yep. Yeah.

Why? Because it's not your values. Like you would honestly hate it. Why would I say you hate it? Because most of you will be like, you know what, six on a boat? You gotta live in a boat, right? Sure, it's a beautiful, yeah, you can do that for maybe a couple of weeks. I'm talking six months of the year though, right? Traveling and like you have to, you know, go through all these islands and you gotta face the storms that, you know, I don't know, will you really wanna do that? Right? You know, and so there's always consequences. And I think that, you know, people like Elon.

Yeah. Yep, yep.

We need people like that. My belief, this is my opinion. We need people like this. Do I ever want to be like him? Hell no, not for me, not my values, right? I'm not reading it so I can be like Elon. No, no way, I know with myself. I know we're close. I'm not even 0.01% of Elon, right? But you know what? We need people like that though. Why? Because people like that, people like Elon are the, I think, I don't know whether you hate him or not, but whatever, like he is doing things. He is shaping the world. He is literally changing the world.

Hmm. No, man, no, no. Huh. Uh, mm, mm.

You might not like where the world is changing, but he's changing it. Like he is a man of action. He's actually doing something that is shaping the direction of the world. Now, if you don't like that, we can complain about it, but the reality is what are you doing about it? Right? If it's so important to you, then do something about it. I don't know. I don't care enough, right? Or I don't have the same bandwidth to be able to challenge that, but some people would, and they will change the direction. So I think we need people like that. But at the same time, we also need people who just goes, no, I'm just enjoying every piece of life that I have in every second.

Hmm. Yep.

They don't have to do anything. I'm peaceful with my cow. I'm peaceful, my little smaller vision. I don't need to achieve anything. I'm just happy in my village. I grew up in. That's okay, too. Right. And I think the reality is that you just got to go what you what you said was like, we're somewhere in between. But it's like, but this it's a long, it's a long between. So you but you got to figure out for yourself, everyone. Where do you land? Where what resonates with you? And I think you have a gut feel because you live long enough. Most of you who are listening to this.

Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yep.

unless you're like my daughter who's listening to this, who's 15 years old, like she probably doesn't have figured that out yet, but anybody who's listening to it, like in your 40s or plus or close to that, I think you have an inclination of like what that could look like, not necessarily fully, but I'm sure you'd be able to figure out and test it. This is what testing is about, like try a whole bunch of things to figure out what resonates with you. And different stages of your life, as we talked about earlier, is that it will change. You know what you like now, won't be the same 10 years from now.

Yep. Yeah. And a hundred percent. I totally agree with exactly what you just said in the last passage there, Lawrence. And I think for me, I've retired twice. Right. And I didn't enjoy it. I learned, you know, like I got to, I bought into the belief that, okay, you'll do things, you'll get to a certain level and then you can just take the foot off the break.

Hmm.

off the accelerator and just take it easy. And yet I realized that wasn't me. And my cousins would love that. They would love my life, right? Where I could do that. And yet that's, I had it and I went, that's not what I'm aspiring to. So I'm like you, I'm inspired by someone like Elon, but not because I wanna be like that. When I read that, I go, dude, there's so many of my values that you're violating. I couldn't do that. I respect you from what you're doing. But I've learned from you and I love reading autobiographies. I learned from people, from key people of history who have shaped history and are shaping history and create it back to myself. And so what I realized about myself is it's not about the freedom so that I don't do anything. You know, retirement to me is a concept that... I'm glad I've done it a couple of times and went, no, that's not what it is. Cause I think that will be the catalyst to keep me just chipping away and doing my own things for a lot longer than a finality. So that's what I've learned about myself and to be able to embracing technology. So I was working from Greece. I wasn't a holiday as such. I was still, um, keeping things ticking and moving it now. I wouldn't have. And this is what my, um,

Hmm.

Relatives couldn't understand. They're like, what do you mean you're working from here? Look, I'm working from here. I'm talking to clients. I've got deals going in other sides of the world. I'm talking to people and they're like, what? They couldn't conceptualize that. But for me, it was finding that rhythm that works for me that still allows me to do that. And I did that in a few hours in the day. And then I had the rest of the day to actually spend with them. So to me, it's a little bit of what you just said. It was about finding your own rhythm, what works for you. somewhere in between that how do I enjoy and appreciate the fine and the connections with people and the juice of life and also embrace elements of what's going on so I can stay ahead of the curve.

Yeah, I remember going back to Toronto this summer and the question was, you know, throwing at me is like, why don't you, why are you only here for a couple of days? Like, why are you doing all this stuff? Why are you traveling? And I was like, because like, you know, we're on holidays and that's what we do. We, we want to go to a place, experience it, move on to the next one, experience more, go on to another place, experience more like, what am I going to do? Like sit here and just like, go to dinners on a repeated pattern over and over again. So I can do the same thing. Like, no, that's not. what this is about. I didn't come all the way here, spend all that money just to sit. I came here to experience. And so, but again, I'm not saying I was right and they were wrong. I'm just saying it's just different. And it's like an appreciation of how someone else travels, how someone takes vacation, how someone else works, isn't maybe your thing, but that's okay. Just appreciate that may be their thing, right? But I think oftentimes the question is always, we should always question it because is that the thing moving forward?

Hmm.

Should we continue doing the same thing over and over again? Like if you've been pushing hard all your life, is that, do you want to continue? Is that smart? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I don't know what the answer is. Cause you know, Jim, you, for example, you said you retired twice. Yeah, great. And I'm sure that, you know, there's a part of you says, okay, I'm, you probably had in your head, like I don't retire, right? But I would say, I would say that at some point in your life, you might change your mind on that, right? We don't know when that will be, but I've sworn some part of it goes like, you know what? I think I'm ready, right?

Yep. Yeah.

And we don't know when that time is, but that's the point. We're not saying like, it's like anything is written in stone on how we are. It's like, it is who we are right now. It is what we're doing right now.

Yep. Yeah. And that's, that's exactly right. That's that was, if I could summarize my major learnings, I guess, from my week last week, it would be probably along the lines of this. And that would be that I'm, I understand that people choose to stay where they are or choose to change based on their level of angst or their level of frustration, unfulfilled, whatever it is. So, but the people who are fulfilled and happy and joyous, there's no reason for them to change if they're living the life, they're basically living their best life. If that, so there are people that I met who are living their best life in a village of 300 people and they're loving every day. They get up, they tend their goats, they tend their fields, they come in, they feel like they've done an honest day's work and I really respect that, right? I look at that and go, that's not what I wanna do, but I... I love the fact that you see purpose and meaning and are happy with that. Then there's the other group of people who are in a set of circumstances, whether it's a business or their life or relationship, who know that there's more, they're not happy, they're not fulfilled, and yet they still don't do anything about that. They're probably the people that I think, if I could support to, I'd go, hey, there's opportunities out there for you if you were just prepared to take that step. So they're probably the most, the people who would... benefit most from a change, not for change sake, but change to something different. But that would involve getting out of comfort zone, embracing fear, all the things that we've spoken about before. And then at the other extreme, there's other people who's world like, like Elong's, and that's the contrast that I'm drawing between, that is happening at such a frenetic pace that people on the outside looking at it going, dude, you're crazy. We love what you're doing, but this guy's so fulfilled on a vision that he's... you know, what other people would go, I wouldn't be prepared to risk that is why he is doing that and creating the changes. So it doesn't it doesn't have to be an either or to me. It's like we just said, it's about finding your own individual path, finding it, being congruent with your values and feeling like, you know, you're not missing out and you're not basically going without because of some of the decisions you make.

I think a good summary here would be, is the lesson that I think most people would take away in what we're trying to say, would be summarized in this one statement, which is be brave enough to explore the edges on either end so that you can see a perspective that you wouldn't have seen if you just stayed within the zone. Because the extreme of each one, it's just exploring just on the other side of the edge of your comfort zone allows you to gain a perspective that you wouldn't know about yourself. And by doing that, Nope, that's not for me or, oh wow, I didn't even know that existed. And I think this is what you contrasted brilliantly Jim, like you know, between Elon to, you know, going to your old village of 300 people, like that is extreme. And until you put yourself in those positions, reading Elon's book in a village of 300 people, that you were one of the, until you got saw that contrast, you wouldn't have gained this perspective and know exactly who you are. So remember the key element of what we talk about is know thyself. And how you do that I feel is go to the edges of where you're comfortable and go just a little beyond so that you can gain a better perspective. So I hope that has helpful. And guys, this is an important broadcast. I really feel that a lot of people should be listening to. So please subscribe, like it and comment and let us know how you think about this, podcast with everyone else. And until then, see you on the next episode.